Relaxation of restrictions

gozunda

ITman88 wrote: »

You have both disagreed and agreed with my post.It’s a long thread, some posters were suggesting months of current/stricter restrictions in place. Its a discussion forum, many arguments took place.
Other’s suggested they could not continue for months with the current restrictions.

Wtf are you going on about. The poster isn't agreeing with your comments at all.

Again no one in this thread is suggesting the restrictions go on "indefinitely" and despite the rantings in your comment no one is twisting anything.

Of course any reaction to the pandemic will be measured in light of the future direction of the disease. And yes that's at least partially to prevent economic collapse by preventing this fuking thing run unhindered.

There are no "lockdown fantatics" out for "themselves" and for sure there are no "selfish agendas". No one is suggesting restrictions for the craic. Restrictions are there to help preserve lives and to aid the reduction of infection rates so the health service is not overwhelmed and to ensure that at least part of the economy can continue and more brought on line as things improve. That said more than likley it will not be a straight line.

It's not like the pandemic is only affecting Ireland. Lots of countries in the exact same position.

Nermal

From a Swedish point of view, it's the rest of us who are engaged in a reckless experiment:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120805778/coronavirus-to-swedes-its-the-rest-of-the-world-engaging-in-a-reckless-experiment

Logan Roy

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

You know something I've been thinking of after reading Italy talking of lockdown exit and phase 2

What happens if we leave lockdown to old restrictions and the numbers climb so much again we'll be guaranteed to overwhelm the hospital's again?

Back to the stricter regime. My understanding is that once we get numbers back down to a manageable number we should have the testing and contact tracing capacity to rapidly identify cases and any contacts they might have had.

People need to take responsibility too, I think once we go back to "normal" anyone who feels well will need to report it immediately and be tested. They also need to stay out of work / public until they know they are not infected.

VinLieger

Nermal wrote: »

From a Swedish point of view, it's the rest of us who are engaged in a reckless experiment:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120805778/coronavirus-to-swedes-its-the-rest-of-the-world-engaging-in-a-reckless-experiment

Sweden ia uniquely positioned in a way other countries are not to try this approach thanks to their already isolatory culture.

There ia no point in trying to compare them to anyone else.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

Sweden ia uniquely positioned in a way other countries are not to try this approach thanks to their already isolatory culture.

There ia no point in trying to compare them to anyone else.

Well Finnish people are very isolatary by nature. They don't touch one another & will move far away from other people.
They took measures in Finland, shut schools, government buildings, stopped meetings of 10 or more people, closed borders in certain regions.
They have less than 100 deaths, Sweden have over 400.

rusty the athlete

VinLieger wrote: »

Sweden ia uniquely positioned in a way other countries are not to try this approach thanks to their already isolatory culture.

There ia no point in trying to compare them to anyone else.

I wouldn't regard sitting cheek by jowel in a pub or restuarant, as press photos suggest, is part of an isolatory culture. Climate forces us to be isolationary during the dark winter months. As soon as it warm and the sun comes out, Stockholm and other towns and cities explode into life and look more like Paris or Amsterdam with absolutely people all over the place in public places, outdoor serveries and so on. I would say that during the brief summers we are the least isolatory country in Europe.


Notwithstanding, Löfven is I think on a foolish and dangerous course. Trump tried it (its a hoax, all gone withing days etc) and Johnson fumbled to say the least. The virus has proved time and time that prevarication, alternative experiments, denial and incompetence are its major ally.

rusty the athlete

bubblypop wrote: »

They have less than 100 deaths, Sweden have over 400.

Sweden population 10million, Finland 5,5 million, so stats not directly comparable, but still a valid point.

rodDaly69

lillycakes2 wrote: »

What about restrictions for the elderly? I feel so sorry for them , what way are the restrictive life looking for them, **** sake

Don't worry, theres a reasonable sized cohort of them who decide to just leave their house as they like anyway. Oh, and they also don't need to queue to get into the supermarket, priority for them... anytime of the day :rolleyes:

rodDaly69

rusty the athlete wrote: »

Sweden population 10million, Finland 5,5 million, so stats not directly comparable, but still a valid point.

I always wonder about this.I understand on one hand why deaths/infection per x of population might be seen as a more accurate metric, but then on the other hand take the following example:

1 infected person goes into a city with a population density of 100 per square kilometre in a country with a population of 1 million. Another infected person goes into a different city, also with the same population density but in a country of 100 million. Surely the damage is going to be roughly the same. Not counting for differing health strategies etc.

Although I suppose the larger country would likely have much greater inward migration, more infected 'seeders' if you will...

It's a tricky one to understand I think, & haven't seen any good articles on it, so if anyone has any please share them on!

topper75

To be fair, our position on the world table approximates Sweden's in terms of deaths per million. We are only two places below them.



I don't think our shutdown achieved much in relative terms. Not yet anyway one week into April.

stephenjmcd

Austrias plans
Austria plans to reopen smaller shops from next week in its first step to loosen a lockdown that has slowed the spread of the coronavirus, as long as the public continue to observe the lockdown broadly, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said.

Mr Kurz told a news conference that since Austria had acted earlier than most countries, that gave it the ability to reopen shops sooner as well.

If all goes well, it will reopen non-essential shops of less than 400 square metres and DIY shops on 14 April, followed by all shops and malls on 1 May, he said.

robinph

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Austrias plans
Austria plans to reopen smaller shops from next week in its first step to loosen a lockdown that has slowed the spread of the coronavirus, as long as the public continue to observe the lockdown broadly, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said.

Mr Kurz told a news conference that since Austria had acted earlier than most countries, that gave it the ability to reopen shops sooner as well.

If all goes well, it will reopen non-essential shops of less than 400 square metres and DIY shops on 14 April, followed by all shops and malls on 1 May, he said.

Was thinking over the weekend that this could result in helping local high streets recover. If large out of town shopping centres and massive supermarkets become less sensible places to visit and shut down due to too many people from too wide an area congregating in one place and people switch to just shopping locally for whatever it is they need.

Dodge

topper75 wrote: »

I don't think our shutdown achieved much in relative terms. Not yet anyway one week into April.

See this is the dangerous nonsense people will come out when it has seen to work

“Only xxx died so it was a complete overreaction”

When it can’t be proved how many would die if we didn’t have the restrictions in place

By far the best indicator we have is the HSE’s figures that new patients have an average of 3 contacts to trace while early patients had 15-20 contacts to trace. That shows the value of the restrictions

lainey_d_123

Nermal wrote: »

From a Swedish point of view, it's the rest of us who are engaged in a reckless experiment:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120805778/coronavirus-to-swedes-its-the-rest-of-the-world-engaging-in-a-reckless-experiment

I cringe when I read comments like this

To him there is no Swedish experiment: it's the rest of Europe that is experimenting – by locking down economies in response to a virus which may prove to be no more deadly than flu.

How can people STILL be comparing this coronavirus to the bloody flu? It's so unbelievably ignorant. All medical professionals have agreed that this is many times worse than the flu and much, much worse than even the swine flu or any of the other things that have been in the press in our lifetime.

This just smacks of the Swedes still not getting it. It may well turn out that the lockdown doesn't actually make all that much difference, but this attitude of 'it's just the flu' is wrong and dangerous. People here were still saying that a month ago but they've stopped swift now that they're starting to lose loved ones.

polesheep

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I've seen posts here and there with this extraordinary type of comment.
People aren't doing this for the craic. There are restrictions to protect the health system. If there are no restrictions there will be more Covid19 and the health system will collapse.

You can make an argument, albeit a callous one, that the economy can be improved by ending restrictions. You cannot make the argument that the health service will be improved by ending restrictions and it is bizarre and irresponsible to do so.

It is a fact that people cannot get to see their GP. The authorities are dressing this up as people being afraid to visit their GP, however, it is the GPs who are afraid to have their patients visit. Hospital clinics have been cancelled as has most surgery. It's not something that can continue for much longer. I believe the authorities are aware of the problem and are trying to address it.

stephenjmcd

robinph wrote: »

Was thinking over the weekend that this could result in helping local high streets recover. If large out of town shopping centres and massive supermarkets become less sensible places to visit and shut down due to too many people from too wide an area congregating in one place and people switch to just shopping locally for whatever it is they need.

Heres the full measures they've announced

https://twitter.com/StLiechtenstein/status/1247102565751361536?s=19

polesheep

gozunda wrote: »

Wtf are you going on about. The poster isn't agreeing with your comments at all.

Again no one in this thread is suggesting the restrictions go on "indefinitely" and despite the rantings in your comment no one is twisting anything.

Of course any reaction to the pandemic will be measured in light of the future direction of the disease. And yes that's at least partially to prevent economic collapse by preventing this fuking thing run unhindered.

There are no "lockdown fantatics" out for "themselves" and for sure there are no "selfish agendas". No one is suggesting restrictions for the craic. Restrictions are there to help preserve lives and to aid the reduction of infection rates so the health service is not overwhelmed and to ensure that at least part of the economy can continue and more brought on line as things improve. That said more than likley it will not be a straight line.

It's not like the pandemic is only affecting Ireland. Lots of countries in the exact same position.

Of course there are selfish agendas... on both sides.

wazzer1

Bit Ironic fingal co.co have signs telling people to stay at home, but this morning have reopened their recycling centre ��*♂️

rusty the athlete

polesheep wrote: »

It is a fact that people cannot get to see their GP.

Agree. It would be easier to break into Fort Knox than to get into my local GP right now.

Lwaker.

polesheep wrote: »

It is a fact that people cannot get to see their GP. The authorities are dressing this up as people being afraid to visit their GP, however, it is the GPs who are afraid to have their patients visit. Hospital clinics have been cancelled as has most surgery. It's not something that can continue for much longer. I believe the authorities are aware of the problem and are trying to address it.

No dentists either

Lwaker.

robinph wrote: »

Was thinking over the weekend that this could result in helping local high streets recover. If large out of town shopping centres and massive supermarkets become less sensible places to visit and shut down due to too many people from too wide an area congregating in one place and people switch to just shopping locally for whatever it is they need.

Small shops spread the virus faster

Stheno

wazzer1 wrote: »

Bit Ironic fingal co.co have signs telling people to stay at home, but this morning have reopened their recycling centre ��*♂️

It was open last week too

polesheep

topper75 wrote: »

To be fair, our position on the world table approximates Sweden's in terms of deaths per million. We are only two places below them.



I don't think our shutdown achieved much in relative terms. Not yet anyway one week into April.

If you remove the nursing home deaths I think it's fair to say that our shutdown has had a positive effect. The problem is that it will be a while before we can know of any negative effects. i.e. any increase in deaths due to non covid-19 reasons.

Cork Boy 53

robinph wrote: »

Was thinking over the weekend that this could result in helping local high streets recover. If large out of town shopping centres and massive supermarkets become less sensible places to visit and shut down due to too many people from too wide an area congregating in one place and people switch to just shopping locally for whatever it is they need.

Don`t know if this is valid. If restrictions are lifted too soon and the death rate stabilizes or reduces people will just go back to their old habits and go in droves to shopping centres/large supermarkets again. Also this would most likely lead to a rise in new cases again.

Gael23

polesheep wrote: »

It is a fact that people cannot get to see their GP. The authorities are dressing this up as people being afraid to visit their GP, however, it is the GPs who are afraid to have their patients visit. Hospital clinics have been cancelled as has most surgery. It's not something that can continue for much longer. I believe the authorities are aware of the problem and are trying to address it.

This is happening. I have a number of chronic illnesses and I’m pretty worried at the moment. I’ve had 3 outpatients appointments cancelled for this month and GPs don’t want you near them.
I run out of vital medication on May 3rd and I’ll be in hospital within a few weeks if I can’t get a prescription for it

Padre_Pio

wazzer1 wrote: »

Bit Ironic fingal co.co have signs telling people to stay at home, but this morning have reopened their recycling centre ��*♂️

People need to get their rubbish dumped. I would have thought this was an essential service?

Jenbach110 wrote: »

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety

I've seen people use this quote and it's taken completely out of context.

HeidiHeidi

Gael23 wrote: »

This is happening. I have a number of chronic illnesses and I’m pretty worried at the moment. I’ve had 3 outpatients appointments cancelled for this month and GPs don’t want you near them.
I run out of vital medication on May 3rd and I’ll be in hospital within a few weeks if I can’t get a prescription for it

My GP has an online application form for repeat prescriptions - I have one that I usually have to renew with a visit/check-up, but they renewed it by fax direct to my local pharmacy.

robinph

Lwaker. wrote: »

Small shops spread the virus faster

How?

A small shop has less people in it and their customers more likely come from the local area so even if there is any transmission it will be kept more local. Easier to limit the number of people in the shop at a time as well. Also if there was an infection locally then easier to pass the news among the local customers that they need to limit their interactions if they went to that shop.

Big shop, lots of people, any infection get spread out among lots more people across a lot wider area and unlike a small local shop much harder to then trace down their potential range of customers and what areas they might have come from.

ixoy

Gael23 wrote: »

This is happening. I have a number of chronic illnesses and I’m pretty worried at the moment. I’ve had 3 outpatients appointments cancelled for this month and GPs don’t want you near them.
I run out of vital medication on May 3rd and I’ll be in hospital within a few weeks if I can’t get a prescription for it

One of the directives for the lock down was to allow pharmacists to renew prescriptions themselves based on their own judgement.

Gael23

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

My GP has an online application form for repeat prescriptions - I have one that I usually have to renew with a visit/check-up, but they renewed it by fax direct to my local pharmacy.

This particular one has to come from a hospital.

I’m sore worried if I have a flare up. Do I just go to A&E and skip my GP