Relaxation of restrictions

TheCitizen

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Whether you agree or not there is a limit on how long restrictions like we have in place can continue before you are met with a backlash. By both the populace and the need to start the economy. An indefinite lockdown is impossible and no western government would attempt it.

At the minute technically it is an indefinite lockdown. I don’t know what you mean by a backlash.

Those in power are not locking down society and shutting down business by choice or lightly. This “backlash” you speak of, what form will it take? There was no backlash or not much of a one bar a few demonstrations etc. when they decided to nationalise the gambling debts of the bankers and wider financial industry in 2008.

That banking scandal added €120 billion to our national debt. This crisis will add around €30 billion when it has worked its way through according to some projections. Also the banks are being used and being encouraged to help bail out regular people and industry this time.

If there wasn’t mass public unrest in 2008 I don’t think we’ll see it now with this, not in Ireland anyway.

rob316

lord quackinton wrote: »

Let’s be realistic here
Unless deaths are substantial at the end of April it’s time to open all businesses including pubs cafes hotels
Keep a ban on large crowds until end of July then open that up

This virus may not be seasonal and a vaccine could take 2 years , should we lock down indefinitely

If we stay in lockdown we will destroy our economy and 2008 will seem like a Garden tea party in comparison

Pubs are going to be the hardest to re-open. Social distancing goes out the window once you've a few drinks in ya.

I can see most businesses back open by the 27th.

KiKi III

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

They have comparatively few cases, though, and they had a head start of at least a month on us. If a lockdown is the answer to everything, why have they had so few cases in spite of taking fairly conservative measures?

Early on they closed tourist sites and schools, and this seems to have hugely slowed the spread compared to the way we did it - do nothing for a few weeks and then close down everything.

Japan’s numbers are questionable as there is strong suspicion they fudged their numbers to keep the Olympics.

Denmark, who went into a shutdown early - at a point many on this thread would have been screaming “overreaction” are now looking at lifting their restrictions after Easter.

Logan Roy

KiKi III wrote: »

Japan’s numbers are questionable as there is strong suspicion they fudged their numbers to keep the Olympics.

Denmark, who went into a shutdown early - at a point many on this thread would have been screaming “overreaction” are now looking at lifting their restrictions after Easter.

You've made your point over and over again. Thank you.

Gael23

Tony Holohan has admitted there is unlikely to be a significant change in Easter Sunday.

Idbatterim

lord quackinton wrote: »

Let’s be realistic here
Unless deaths are substantial at the end of April it’s time to open all businesses including pubs cafes hotels
Keep a ban on large crowds until end of July then open that up

This virus may not be seasonal and a vaccine could take 2 years , should we lock down indefinitely

If we stay in lockdown we will destroy our economy and 2008 will seem like a Garden tea party in comparison

people going spare at home at this stage, re-open garden centres and building suppliers and just be sensible. The rest can follow, but closing them and putting hundreds of thousands ouf of employment, is idiocy!

road_high

Idbatterim wrote: »

people going spare at home at this stage, re-open garden centres and building suppliers and just be sensible. The rest can follow, but closing them and putting hundreds of thousands ouf of employment, is idiocy!

I agree. I was in DIY stores two or three weeks ago and it was absolutely fine. Certainly more spread out than the supermarkets are.
Can’t see why the likes of McDonald’s etc can’t be open and just do take aways or drive thrus. It’s all very well just say “lock down” (usually coming from hysterical people that don’t work I can see and think money just comes from the post office and welfare office). I’d like to see an easing but with very sensible and strict distancing in place. Far more useful use of the Gardai time than asking people where they’re going for a drive. Would also ease the burden on social welfare

coastwatch

Going by Tony Holohan comments today and Simon Harris comments last week, the timing of the lifting of restrictions will be based on seeing a consistent decline in new cases, but also having a widespread testing and contact tracing network in place.

I think the delay in getting the testing network in place will be the bigger problem.
Tony Holohan mentioned it would be there in the next couple of weeks.

Plumbthedepths

TheCitizen wrote: »

At the minute technically it is an indefinite lockdown. I don’t know what you mean by a backlash.

Those in power are not locking down society and shutting down business by choice or lightly. This “backlash” you speak of, what form will it take? There was no backlash or not much of a one bar a few demonstrations etc. when they decided to nationalise the gambling debts of the bankers and wider financial industry in 2008.

That banking scandal added €120 billion to our national debt. This crisis will add around €30 billion when it has worked its way through according to some projections. Also the banks are being used and being encouraged to help bail out regular people and industry this time.

If there wasn’t mass public unrest in 2008 I don’t think we’ll see it now with this, not in Ireland anyway.

There is no comparison between the financial crash and the present experience, to suggest there is is rank stupidity.

KiKi III

Logan Roy wrote: »

You've made your point over and over again. Thank you.

a) That’s literally the first time I’ve made that point

b) If I should choose to make the same point more than once, that’s my prerogative.

Do you have anything of substance to contribute?

Logan Roy

KiKi III wrote: »

a) That’s literally the first time I’ve made that point

b) If I should choose to make the same point more than once, that’s my prerogative.

Do you have anything of substance to contribute?

LOL

STB.

lord quackinton wrote: »

Let’s be realistic here
Unless deaths are substantial at the end of April it’s time to open all businesses including pubs cafes hotels
Keep a ban on large crowds until end of July then open that up

This virus may not be seasonal and a vaccine could take 2 years , should we lock down indefinitely

If we stay in lockdown we will destroy our economy and 2008 will seem like a Garden tea party in comparison

It's not seasonal. Its a super powerful virus.

"Unless deaths are substantial". The measures were introduced because we have a limited health service. The whole idea was to stop the spread so that they wouldn't overwhelm the 500 ICU beds and run out of staff and limited medical equipment, and it gets out of control where loads die needlessly.

"Lets be realistic here" we are playing the long game, where we slow the spread and treat more over a longer period of time.

This is not going away. Already 51 cases of it becoming re-activated in South Korea. They are not fully sure why that it. China have 705 asymptomatic cases, half of them in Hubei.

Be July at the earliest.

BanditLuke

lord quackinton wrote: »

Let’s be realistic here
Unless deaths are substantial at the end of April it’s time to open all businesses including pubs cafes hotels
Keep a ban on large crowds until end of July then open that up

This virus may not be seasonal and a vaccine could take 2 years , should we lock down indefinitely

If we stay in lockdown we will destroy our economy and 2008 will seem like a Garden tea party in comparison

Our economy is destroyed anyway. If we relax restrictions we will see a massive rise in cases and deaths. The virus will very likely be still with us in July so there is zero chance of large crowds being allowed. You can right off GAA, horse racing, football, concerts, cinemas, nightclubs etc.. until at least the Autumn.

TheCitizen

road_high wrote: »

I agree. I was in DIY stores two or three weeks ago and it was absolutely fine. Certainly more spread out than the supermarkets are.
Can’t see why the likes of McDonald’s etc can’t be open and just do take aways or drive thrus. It’s all very well just say “lock down” (usually coming from hysterical people that don’t work I can see and think money just comes from the post office and welfare office). I’d like to see an easing but with very sensible and strict distancing in place. Far more useful use of the Gardai time than asking people where they’re going for a drive. Would also ease the burden on social welfare

The hysteria on this thread is from those who can’t hold their nerve and who fail to recognise that the restrictions put in place are there for important scientifically and medically backed reasons and crucially appear to be working. The Time is now more than ever to hold our nerve and have the courage to see this through.

road_high

TheCitizen wrote: »

The hysteria on this thread is from those who can’t hold their nerve and who fail to recognise that the restrictions put in place are there for important scientifically and medically backed reasons and crucially appear to be working. The Time is now more than ever to hold our nerve and have the courage to see this through.

People are holding their nerve. We’ve had severe restrictions for nearly a month now. But no point over restricting beyond what is necessary as per scientific abd medical advice. People need cash too, we can’t live on fresh air indefinitely

Tenzor07

coastwatch wrote: »

Going by Tony Holohan comments today and Simon Harris comments last week, the timing of the lifting of restrictions will be based on seeing a consistent decline in new cases, but also having a widespread testing and contact tracing network in place.
I think the delay in getting the testing network in place will be the bigger problem.
Tony Holohan mentioned it would be there in the next couple of weeks.

Yes, every indication is an extension of the current lockdown, thousands of people staying at home, furloughed or made redundant.

Without massively increased testing and tracing, as well as quarantine/isolation of infected people then, the 714,000 people receiving state payments can only increase to 1,000,000 by this time next month on current trends, which would mean the state will be borrowing off the EU to meet the payments for that, and to pay the Gardai, Army and Health service.

Gael23

How long can the over 70s be locked away for before social issues start to develop?

timmy_mallet

TheCitizen wrote: »

The hysteria on this thread is from those who can’t hold their nerve and who fail to recognise that the restrictions put in place are there for important scientifically and medically backed reasons and crucially appear to be working. The Time is now more than ever to hold our nerve and have the courage to see this through.

They actually weren't, but carry on.

timmy_mallet

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yes, every indication is an extension of the current lockdown, thousands of people staying at home, furloughed or made redundant.

Without massively increased testing and tracing, as well as quarantine/isolation of infected people then, the 714,000 people receiving state payments can only increase to 1,000,000 by this time next month on current trends, which would mean the state will be borrowing off the EU to meet the payments for that, and to pay the Gardai, Army and Health service.

And with the EU doing the same for the rest of the states, I hope they;ve deep pockets.

road_high

timmy_mallet wrote: »

And with the EU doing the same for the rest of the states, I hope they;ve deep pockets.

They don’t. And we are a net contributor. We were one of the wealthiest nations in the EU so if we are in trouble then so is the Eu.

combat14

Hard to know how long restrictions needed for:

Some COVID-19 patients still have coronavirus after symptoms disappear

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200327091234.htm

Canyon86

I would like to see ireland adopt similar measures to Denmark and Austria depending on the cases declining

jimbobaloobob

I think the last few days have given a false sense that control is being has with new cases in the 390-450 range but testing has declined to coincide with this. Now that testing is expected to reach 4500+ we will probably see a spike in figures in a few days time.

Listening to Ivan Yates earlier he interviewed a lecturer in South Korea who have had 6 weeks lockdown with stringent testing and are yet to lift all restrictions.

I hope the power holders don't come under pressures here from big business to open up until it is in the best interest of the nation and people again

Logan Roy

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

I think the last few days have given a false sense that control is being has with new cases in the 390-450 range but testing has declined to coincide with this. Now that testing is expected to reach 4500+ we will probably see a spike in figures in a few days time.

Listening to Ivan Yates earlier he interviewed a lecturer in South Korea who have had 6 weeks lockdown with stringent testing and are yet to lift all restrictions.

I hope the power holders don't come under pressures here from big business to open up until it is in the best interest of the nation and people again

What restrictions have they lifted so far? I think most people are on board with the idea that these current restrictions last until the end of the month but would like to see them eased gradually after that.

scamalert

Canyon86 wrote: »

I would like to see ireland adopt similar measures to Denmark and Austria depending on the cases declining

The way i see it we still have an issue where 90% tested were negative so puts entire country almost that never had contracted the virus so means anyone could get it or be vulnerable, in other terms we could be low to single digits and be back in same spot within 2-3 weeks with only few infected.


then somehow goverment HSE spent already 6-8 billion and were still at 500 beds for icu not enough even basic ppe, or nurses doctors - and money still goes somewhere - dole, private pockets so theres no handling or any progress from government. in months leading to this.


as im leaning a bit towards Swedens approach as bad as it might seem at least it gives people a choice if they wanna hide inside their bedrooms, or risk it, not some up the ladder person making choice for entire country to be told whats best for them.

Tenzor07

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Listening to Ivan Yates earlier he interviewed a lecturer in South Korea who have had 6 weeks lockdown with stringent testing and are yet to lift all restrictions. I hope the power holders don't come under pressures here from big business to open up until it is in the best interest of the nation and people again

S. Korea has been controlling the outbreak through testing, tracing and early detection.
In S. Korea anyone can walk up and get tested for $140, if the person tests positive then the state pays the cost of the test.

Ireland is testing a couple of thousand a day who have presented to a medical facility only.

titan18

There are people not obeying the current ones so no we shouldn't relax them. Make them more stringent if anything

jimbobaloobob

Logan Roy wrote: »

What restrictions have they lifted so far? I think most people are on board with the idea that these current restrictions last until the end of the month but would like to see them eased gradually after that.

I assume your asking about South Korea? The professor interviewed said some facilities were opening small amounts of time like his sons crèche was open odd days for a couple of hours.

Easing resteictings at the end of the month as you mentioned should be results based and not just because that was the initial date outlined.

WashYourHands

titan18 wrote: »

There are people not obeying the current ones so no we shouldn't relax them. Make them more stringent if anything

I, unfortunately, have to agree with this.


People are making fields near me into a park. They play golf, football, sit on blankets and congregate.


On my non-daily exercise within 2km, I've seen people chatting at corners, sitting having coffees, parks being pretty full, people not attempting to distance when walking. It's a fcuking shame


[I am not affiliated with boards.ie, my username is pending a change]

Jenbach110

titan18 wrote: »

There are people not obeying the current ones so no we shouldn't relax them. Make them more stringent if anything

Would you not think our death and ICU figures are managable continuing as we are??

Be very very careful what you wish for