Relaxation of restrictions

faceman

GT89 wrote: »

They are only doing because everywhere else in Europe is doing it especially the UK. Our government will always follow the herd and will never take a more innovative approach to anything like Sweden who would often take a different approach to all sorts of matters than the rest of Europe.

I am convinced the "lockdown" was only going to be done as soon as the UK did it and it was as it was done a few day after the UK. You watch if the UK imposes further restrictive measures Ireland will soon follow suit regardless of the number of infections and they will take the same approach as the UK when it comes to eventually lifting the "restrictions".

Ireland was on lockdown before the UK.

Also Sweden’s approach isn’t working. The medical profession there is screaming for a lockdown.

Thespoofer

road_high wrote: »

Virtually nothing is open bar food shops and a few essentials. What else would you like to do? Close those down as well? Because we are pretty much at rock bottom as regards restrictions. Anything else running is pretty much ancillary to the food and medical chain like agriculture and pharma. Next stop is total lockdown and the army drop food to people’s doors from warehouses

I wouldn't agree with it but restricting alcohol sales ( I repeat, I wouldn't agree with it)

lord quackinton

citysights wrote: »

Someone here or on another thread called them the lockdown- fetishists, they just can’t wait for it. They should be careful of what they wish for, freedoms are hard won.

There is plenty on here like that
My question is do these people not have jobs that may be gone if the lockdown goes on longer?
Are they not worried

Let me make 1 quick but important point
The economic figures from America are frightening beyond anything since records began
Ireland will be affected deeply and there will be many job losses and with this will come huge cuts to welfare and public sector pay and jobs
2008 saw minimum cuts to some base welfare payments and public sector employees saw extra taxes and rate of new recruits slashed but little job losses
But will happen the world economy is truly scary and People are not going to accept the fallout this time
I know I will sound alarmist but Ireland needs to be put on a real war footing

kippy

lord quackinton wrote: »

There is plenty on here like that
My question is do these people not have jobs that may be gone if the lockdown goes on longer?
Are they not worried

Let me make 1 quick but important point
The economic figures from America are frightening beyond anything since records began
Ireland will be affected deeply and there will be many job losses and with this will come huge cuts to welfare and public sector pay and jobs
2008 saw minimum cuts to some base welfare payments and public sector employees saw extra taxes and rate of new recruits slashed but little job losses
But will happen the world economy is truly scary and People are not going to accept the fallout this time
I know I will sound alarmist but Ireland needs to be put on a real war footing

Calm the jets.

smurgen

Idbatterim wrote: »

I’mistening to an “ expert “ from hse. Saying there are less cases than they expected even a week ago. The ventilator production globally has gone through roof...

Must say after the weird stance the HSE took on face masks I'm taking their expert advice with a pinch of salt .

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

theyll likely freeze things as are, for no valid reason for all of the restrictions currently in place, that will be their "plan" We get hit by the corona virus bus and they are going to throw us under the recession bus now aswell...

Most of the globe is in some form of a lockdown... Everyone is economically hit. But I'm frankly happy to put public health first.

lord quackinton

kippy wrote: »

Calm the jets.

In 2008 our gdp contracted 8.5%
Estimates predict 13.1% contraction due to Covid which is very optimistic but let’s accept 13% for now
13% contraction will be hell, but if we go to 20% which many are now predicting there will be blood
The euro project would be finished immediately, just think about the fallout of that alone

2008 I was worried and nervous but these days I try and not get frightened
After 2008 I had to rebuild everything, It took me 6 years to retrain and another 2 to get back to earning some money
Many people did like i did
Now we have to accept what is coming, I still have not yet, but I am doing my best

frillyleaf

road_high wrote: »

I think a bit of personal responsibility should kick in here then. If you have elderly dependents then don’t expose them to any unnecessary risks and if necessary lockdown with them depending on the level of care they need

Not as easy to do that in a housing market which has forced thousands of people to live with their parents. Anyone over 60 is deemed at risk and there are 500,000 people with underlying issues in Ireland.

KiKi III

lord quackinton wrote: »

In 2008 our gdp contracted 8.5%
Estimates predict 13.1% contraction due to Covid which is very optimistic but let’s accept 13% for now
13% contraction will be hell, but if we go to 20% which many are now predicting there will be blood
The euro project would be finished immediately, just think about the fallout of that alone

2008 I was worried and nervous but these days I try and not get frightened
After 2008 I had to rebuild everything, It took me 6 years to retrain and another 2 to get back to earning some money
Many people did like i did
Now we have to accept what is coming, I still have not yet, but I am doing my best

It's a very different situation to 2008. The economy is about to take a very deep dip but many (not all, but many) of the jobs lost over the last few weeks will be back when the restrictions ease off.

We also came into it with lower unemployment rates, and stronger public finances. We've had a lot of FDI in the meantime and that doesn't look like it's going anywhere for the moment.

I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll be okay.

niallo27

faceman wrote: »

Ireland was on lockdown before the UK.

Also Sweden’s approach isn’t working. The medical profession there is screaming for a lockdown.

The swedish situation is very hard to read, for every article saying the medical profession is screaming for a lockdown you could find one saying how successful it has been and their relaxed restrictions are just as successful as more severe ones.

KiKi III

niallo27 wrote: »

The swedish situation is very hard to read, for every article saying the medical profession is screaming for a lockdown you could find one saying how successful it has been and their relaxed restrictions are just as successful as more severe ones.

The deaths are fairly easy to read.

Norway has a population of 5 million and 76 deaths.

Denmark has a population of 5 million and 187 deaths.

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 477 deaths.

niallo27

KiKi III wrote: »

The deaths are fairly easy to read.

Norway has a population of 5 million and 76 deaths.

Denmark has a population of 5 million and 187 deaths.

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 477 deaths.

Why is Norway doing so much better than Denmark, I'm not sure are you trying to prove my argument or disprove it.

Gael23

KiKi III wrote: »

It's a very different situation to 2008. The economy is about to take a very deep dip but many (not all, but many) of the jobs lost over the last few weeks will be back when the restrictions ease off.

We also came into it with lower unemployment rates, and stronger public finances. We've had a lot of FDI in the meantime and that doesn't look like it's going anywhere for the moment.

I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll be okay.

If the restrictions last much longer those jobs won’t be back as small businesses go to the wall in their hundreds.

pjohnson

KiKi III wrote: »

The deaths are fairly easy to read.

Norway has a population of 5 million and 76 deaths.

Denmark has a population of 5 million and 187 deaths.

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 477 deaths.

Yeah but what about the economy. People here would love to sacrifice off a few citizens if it meant they could earn money again. Greed more important that lives.

KiKi III

Gael23 wrote: »

If the restrictions last much longer those jobs won’t be back as small businesses go to the wall in their hundreds.

Right now they are able to keep staff on the books through government schemes, and I expect there will be more government support to reopen.

KiKi III

niallo27 wrote: »

Why is Norway doing so much better than Denmark, I'm not sure are you trying to prove my argument or disprove it.

The point is that Sweden is doing far worse than either.

jackboy

KiKi III wrote: »

The point is that Sweden is doing far worse than either.

If the above figures are accurate Sweden is pretty similar to Denmark.

niallo27

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah but what about the economy. People here would love to sacrifice off a few citizens if it meant they could earn money again. Greed more important that lives.

Maybe everyone is not in as a privileged position as yourself and many are worried about providing for their families or have businesses that will have to close and are anxious about having to let people go. Maybe people have big families and mortgages and are worried how they are going pay it when this is over but no no you think it's all ****en greed.

niallo27

KiKi III wrote: »

The point is that Sweden is doing far worse than either.

It really isnt though, Denmark and Sweden are quiet similar. Would you not agree there should be a massive difference based on restrictions.

pjohnson

niallo27 wrote: »

Maybe everyone is not in as a privileged position as yourself and many are worried about providing for their families or have businesses that will have to close and are anxious about having to let people go. Maybe people have big families and mortgages and are worried how they are going pay it when this is over but no no you think it's all ****en greed.

I'd have thought people would be more worried about this virus that, if left unrestricted, would risk their own or their families actual lives. I'd prefer first and foremost to keep all my family members alive. I would have thought most people would think the same but this thread clearly shows different.

niallo27

pjohnson wrote: »

I'd have thought people would be more worried about this virus that, if left unrestricted, would risk their own or their families actual lives. I'd prefer first and foremost to keep all my family members alive. I would have thought most people would think the same but this thread clearly shows different.

They are not mutually exclusive though. Have you ever had to worry about paying your mortgage or money running out.

rusty the athlete

KiKi III wrote: »

The deaths are fairly easy to read.

Norway has a population of 5 million and 76 deaths.

Denmark has a population of 5 million and 187 deaths.

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 477 deaths.

and Finland has a population of 5.5 million and 27 deaths.

polesheep

pjohnson wrote: »

I'd have thought people would be more worried about this virus that, if left unrestricted, would risk their own or their families actual lives. I'd prefer first and foremost to keep all my family members alive. I would have thought most people would think the same but this thread clearly shows different.

I think most people would prefer to keep all of their family members alive. But think about this: What if you could keep your granny alive until she was 150 years old, but to do so meant keeping your family in lockdown. Your children would never go to school, never get to play and socialise with their friends, never play sports. You would be permanently out of work with your family living off handouts from the government plus all the other things that your family would have to forego. Would you still feel the same about granny? I'm not being callous. The point I am making is that it is always a matter of degree and at some point we will have to get back to some sort of normality even if we are still experiencing deaths from Covid-19. The authorities realise this, they are just trying to buy as much time as possible, however, time is running out.

polesheep

KiKi III wrote: »

The deaths are fairly easy to read.

Norway has a population of 5 million and 76 deaths.

Denmark has a population of 5 million and 187 deaths.

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 477 deaths.

It is only when Covid-19 stops killing people that we will be able to say which nation took the correct approach. I suspect that there may not be much difference in the long run.

Tenzor07

With regards to school closures:

School closures are likely to have a relatively small impact on the spread of Covid-19 and should be weighed against their profound economic and social consequences, particularly for the most vulnerable children, according to a UK study.
The research, led by University College London (UCL), is the first to look at evidence behind many governments’ decision to shut schools and keep pupils at home.
“We know from previous studies that school closures are likely to have the greatest effect if the virus has low transmissibility and attack rates are higher in children. This is the opposite of Covid-19,” said the study’s lead author, Prof Russell Viner, of UCL Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health.

“Data on the benefit of school closures in the Covid-19 outbreak is limited but what we know shows that their impact is likely to be only small compared with other infection-control measures such as case isolation and is only effective when other social isolating measures are adhered to.”

VinLieger

Tenzor07 wrote: »

With regards to school closures:

Important part of that some people might miss.

is only effective when other social isolating measures are adhered to

So they are effective.

Idbatterim

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-still-no-roadmap-for-end-to-national-lockdown-39108942.html

Bringing on another recession , possibly voluntarily is idiocy of the highest order! Look a few months down the road, take the blinkers off. It’s as i feared , they’ll shut the place down in a heartbeat, they now think the urgent thing has been done and will be in no rush to do anything now. Except permanently close businesses and have hundreds of thousands sitting at home , twiddling their thumbs and launching us straight from this crisis , into the next recession. Domestic violence is up , much more of this crap and watch suicides increase...

But no , let’s focus on only one metric...

KiKi III

jackboy wrote: »

If the above figures are accurate Sweden is pretty similar to Denmark.

No, they're not.

If you adjust for population, there's a difference of about 25%, which is massive.

brutes1

polesheep wrote: »

It is only when Covid-19 stops killing people that we will be able to say which nation took the correct approach. I suspect that there may not be much difference in the long run.

Is Covid the cause of death or do deaths quoted include those who contract it and have this recorded in the stats. I suspect the latter

How bad is this versus a normal flu season ??

What is the actual infection and mortality rate for a broad poulation sample ? Have we this.

People die every day unfortunately and especially older people. This wont change no matter how long we are locked away.

Time to get back to action and work and school etc I do not see the benefit of restrictions.

Nermal

rusty the athlete wrote: »

and Finland has a population of 5.5 million and 27 deaths.

KiKi III wrote: »

The deaths are fairly easy to read.

Norway has a population of 5 million and 76 deaths.

Denmark has a population of 5 million and 187 deaths.

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 477 deaths.

To summarise: we are deprived of our liberty and we're going to suffer the largest drop in output since the great depression, but our sacrifice was worth it, as only 0.00049% of the population is dead rather than 0.00477%. Comical.