Relaxation of restrictions

Idbatterim

brutes1 wrote: »

Is Covid the cause of death or do deaths quoted include those who contract it and have this recorded in the stats. I suspect the latter

How bad is this versus a normal flu season ??

What is the actual infection and mortality rate for a broad poulation sample ? Have we this.

People die every day unfortunately and especially older people. This wont change no matter how long we are locked away.

Time to get back to action and work and school etc I do not see the benefit of restrictions.

I see the benefits of restrictions in the very short term to put measures in place. Testing , more ventilators , supplying ppe etc. it’s done now. What do they want to do , lock us up for over a year potentially until a vaccine comes along? The current lockdown is ott and is going to cause more damage than good!

Poor Air quality causes an estimated seven million deaths a year according to the WHO. Killing mainly the elderly

https://www.who.int/health-topics/air-pollution#tab=tab_1

Thelonious Monk

Keeping things closed for a few more weeks wont make much of a difference at this stage. The rest of the world is on lockdown, we live in a globalised world.
So it's probably best to just concentrate on keeping the numbers down for now.
Our economy is absolutely f*cked anyway, so opening things up wont make much of a difference at this stage. USA tends to dictate how recessions go and they're totally screwed now, which means we are too.
I don't know what people expect the government to do, we're still relatively free here compared to France/Spain/Italy etc. when it comes to lockdown measures.
We're all going to be broke for a while, lots and lots of jobs and businesses are gone, everything is going to change, no more foreign holidays for a while, no more city breaks, opening things up sooner isn't going to change any of that. Just accept this and be thankful the weather is nice!

Padre_Pio

Nermal wrote: »

To summarise: we are deprived of our liberty and we're going to suffer the largest drop in output since the great depression, but our sacrifice was worth it, as only 0.00049% of the population is dead rather than 0.00477%. Comical.

What's an acceptable death rate for your ability to have a pint and wander the shops?

polesheep

brutes1 wrote: »

Is Covid the cause of death or do deaths quoted include those who contract it and have this recorded in the stats. I suspect the latter

How bad is this versus a normal flu season ??

What is the actual infection and mortality rate for a broad poulation sample ? Have we this.

People die every day unfortunately and especially older people. This wont change no matter how long we are locked away.

Time to get back to action and work and school etc I do not see the benefit of restrictions.

I wasn't suggesting that we stay on lockdown. In fact, I believe that at this point, we should be moving to a targeted lockdown. i.e. cocooning.

BanditLuke

brutes1 wrote: »

Is Covid the cause of death or do deaths quoted include those who contract it and have this recorded in the stats. I suspect the latter

How bad is this versus a normal flu season ??

What is the actual infection and mortality rate for a broad poulation sample ? Have we this.

People die every day unfortunately and especially older people. This wont change no matter how long we are locked away.

Time to get back to action and work and school etc I do not see the benefit of restrictions.

Are you seriously asking how bad this is versus a normal flu season? Have you been down a cave for the last couple of months.

rm212

Nermal wrote: »

To summarise: we are deprived of our liberty and we're going to suffer the largest drop in output since the great depression, but our sacrifice was worth it, as only 0.00049% of the population is dead rather than 0.00477%. Comical.

Jesus it’s f’ing vile to minimise the worth of people’s lives to a small percentage like that. I’ll gladly be deprived of my liberty for whatever time is needed for the safety of myself, my family, my friends, my colleagues and the strangers around me. Who gives a rats arse about output if everyone you love dies.

The virus is really eye opening to what so much of the world has become today, where people don’t matter as much as money anymore. I sometimes wish I was alive in another time where people put each other first.

ITman88

Idbatterim wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/coronavirus-ireland-still-no-roadmap-for-end-to-national-lockdown-39108942.html

Bringing on another recession , possibly voluntarily is idiocy of the highest order! Look a few months down the road, take the blinkers off. It’s as i feared , they’ll shut the place down in a heartbeat, they now think the urgent thing has been done and will be in no rush to do anything now. Except permanently close businesses and have hundreds of thousands sitting at home , twiddling their thumbs and launching us straight from this crisis , into the next recession. Domestic violence is up , much more of this crap and watch suicides increase...

But no , let’s focus on only one metric...

That is one frightening link.

As I suspected absolutely no consideration for the economic destruction.

As another poster previously alluded too, and I’ve regularly repeated what they said, has a risk assessment being carried out, economy vs healthcare?

Reading between the lines no, “figure it out as we go along” it’s seems it not been given a great deal of attention

KiKi III

Nermal wrote: »

To summarise: we are deprived of our liberty and we're going to suffer the largest drop in output since the great depression, but our sacrifice was worth it, as only 0.00049% of the population is dead rather than 0.00477%. Comical.

Bet that's exactly what Boris thought until it was him going into ICU.

polesheep

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Keeping things closed for a few more weeks wont make much of a difference at this stage. The rest of the world is on lockdown, we live in a globalised world.
So it's probably best to just concentrate on keeping the numbers down for now.
Our economy is absolutely f*cked anyway, so opening things up wont make much of a difference at this stage. USA tends to dictate how recessions go and they're totally screwed now, which means we are too.
I don't know what people expect the government to do, we're still relatively free here compared to France/Spain/Italy etc. when it comes to lockdown measures.
We're all going to be broke for a while, lots and lots of jobs and businesses are gone, everything is going to change, no more foreign holidays for a while, no more city breaks, opening things up sooner isn't going to change any of that. Just accept this and be thankful the weather is nice!

Your first statement is patently wrong. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/unemployment-figure-may-have-hit-25-months-earlier-than-predicted-992570.html
Your second shows complete disregard for those who live in apartments. For them, good weather may actually make matters worse.

TheCitizen

lord quackinton wrote: »

In 2008 our gdp contracted 8.5%
Estimates predict 13.1% contraction due to Covid which is very optimistic but let’s accept 13% for now
13% contraction will be hell, but if we go to 20% which many are now predicting there will be blood
The euro project would be finished immediately, just think about the fallout of that alone

2008 I was worried and nervous but these days I try and not get frightened
After 2008 I had to rebuild everything, It took me 6 years to retrain and another 2 to get back to earning some money
Many people did like i did
Now we have to accept what is coming, I still have not yet, but I am doing my best

Why would the Euro project be finished?

In 08 €120billion was added to our national debt, this time the banks have liquidity and it has been projected €30 billion would be a worst case scenario added on to the National debt. The debt would be a long term debt and would include the stimulus necessary to restart the economy. Engaging in negative hyperbole like you are achieves nothing. Where do you think the extra money is coming from where people losing jobs are getting 350 a week as opposed to the usual 203?

The capatalist system we are hooked to is in working order now whereas it was dead the last time and they nationalised the banking and financial sectors debt by taking the money out of our pockets. It’s payback time. The financial world lives off our backs it is in their interest to kickstart the economy when the medical emergency comes under control.

I ve seen you and others on here shriek about unrest, if there was little or no unrest in 08 nothing will happen now. Chill out.

KevRossi

This is purely anecdotal, but I go for a walk every morning from 6.30-8.30 in a big rectangle around the house. My route crosses many busy commuter routes such as Dorset St, Finglas Rd. East Wall Rd, Clontarf Rd.

The number of cars on the road this week has shot up compared to last week. I usually take a small digital camera with me, took loads of photos of deserted streets last week and today it looks like a Saturday morning. A lot of people are sick of the lockdown and are on the move again, which isn't good.

BanditLuke

rm212 wrote: »

Jesus it’s f’ing vile to minimise the worth of people’s lives to a small percentage like that. I’ll gladly be deprived of my liberty for whatever time is needed for the safety of myself, my family, my friends, my colleagues and the strangers around me. Who gives a rats arse about output if everyone you love dies.

The virus is really eye opening to what so much of the world has become today, where people don’t matter as much as money anymore. I sometimes wish I was alive in another time where people put each other first.

It's a real eye opener reading some of the comments on here for sure. Let's be thankful these people aren't in control of the situation. Small mercies

ITman88

rm212 wrote: »

The virus is really eye opening to what so much of the world has become today, where people don’t matter as much as money anymore. I sometimes wish I was alive in another time where people put each other first.

We are alive in a time when people live longer than they ever have before, and they are the ones most at risk right now.

Nermal

Padre_Pio wrote: »

What's an acceptable death rate for your ability to have a pint and wander the shops?

Padre Pio: if I played the lottery once a week for a year I would have roughly the same chance as winning the jackpot as someone in Finland has of dying of this virus.

So without putting an exact figure on it, let's just say it has to be a little bit higher than that.

tobefrank321

The problem is they have no proper metric to decide if restrictions should be lifted or not. The testing is all over the place. Many and probably most of the "new" cases were infected weeks ago and are only getting processed now. The "German" cases could have been infected a month ago for all we know. Its pointless adding them into "new" cases as it completely skews all modelling.

They need to estimate when people were infected. And the turnaround on tests has to be 1-2 days from the onset of symptoms to test results to have any proper value, otherwise the model is skewed.

No faith in the HSE or government to get this right unfortunately.

Idbatterim

Yeah I’m not surprised they have no plan. It’s the same bunch of incompetent idiots running the show , that have brought you the housing , health , justice, infrastructure farces. Rip off insurance, child care etc. I think it’s easy to look good initially, I think public mood is going to change pretty quickly! Even admitting there is no road map, even if there isn’t one , is idiotic. It just leads to a “ we don’t reallt no where this is going “ mentality and it’s dangerous.

Thelonious Monk

ITman88 wrote: »

That is one frightening link.

As I suspected absolutely no consideration for the economic destruction.

As another poster previously alluded too, and I’ve regularly repeated what they said, has a risk assessment being carried out, economy vs healthcare?

Reading between the lines no, “figure it out as we go along” it’s seems it not been given a great deal of attention

This is currently out of Ireland's hands though. No matter what our Government do at this stage, our economy is banjaxed, it's at the mercy of the world economy. Therefore I don't see the point in rushing things back open, which is what some posters seem to want, it will probably just hasten the spread of the disease, it's not going to fix the economy.

KiKi III

Nermal wrote: »

Padre Pio: if I played the lottery once a week for a year I would have roughly the same chance as winning the jackpot as someone in Finland has of dying of this virus.

So without putting an exact figure on it, let's just say it has to be a little bit higher than that.

And as long as you're personally unlikely to die from it, who gives a monkeys about the rest of society?

TheCitizen

BanditLuke wrote: »

It's a real eye opener reading some of the comments on here for sure. Let's be thankful these people aren't in control of the situation. Small mercies

This x 100. Ridiculous negative snowflaking hyperbole from some.

polesheep

rm212 wrote: »

Jesus it’s f’ing vile to minimise the worth of people’s lives to a small percentage like that. I’ll gladly be deprived of my liberty for whatever time is needed for the safety of myself, my family, my friends, my colleagues and the strangers around me. Who gives a rats arse about output if everyone you love dies.

The virus is really eye opening to what so much of the world has become today, where people don’t matter as much as money anymore. I sometimes wish I was alive in another time where people put each other first.

If that were the case I doubt anyone would disagree with you, but it's not. It's just something you made up for effect.

KiKi III

"Figure it out as we go along" is all any government can do right now. Show me a government who knew before their crisis peaked what they would be doing four weeks or 12 weeks later?

That's what happens in an unprecedented situation.

polesheep

TheCitizen wrote: »

This x 100. Ridiculous negative snowflaking hyperbole from some.

I think you'll find that the hyperbole was on the other side of the argument.
"Who gives a rats arse about output if everyone you love dies."

Thelonious Monk

polesheep wrote: »

Your first statement is patently wrong. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/unemployment-figure-may-have-hit-25-months-earlier-than-predicted-992570.html
Your second shows complete disregard for those who live in apartments. For them, good weather may actually make matters worse.

My girlfriend lives in an apartment, she's loving the nice weather and goes for a walk before working from home every day. You can still go outside you know...

rm212

ITman88 wrote: »

We are alive in a time when people live longer than they ever have before, and they are the ones most at risk right now.

Most at risk perhaps, but certainly not the only ones, absolutely not. There is still a significant risk to many other groups of people of all demographics. Furthermore, the fact that they live longer than ever does not mean that their lives are less valuable. They spent their life contributing to our society and we have a duty to look after them now. I’m not engaging with this anymore as seeing the cold, disgusting attitudes of people here is really depressing.

polesheep

KiKi III wrote: »

"Figure it out as we go along" is all any government can do right now. Show me a government who knew before their crisis peaked what they would be doing four weeks or 12 weeks later?

That's what happens in an unprecedented situation.

No, it is not. In an unprecedented situation you learn as you go but plan for a number of possible outcomes. That is what some other governments have done, and I'd like to think that our government is doing that too.

Idbatterim

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

This is currently out of Ireland's hands though. No matter what our Government do at this stage, our economy is banjaxed, it's at the mercy of the world economy. Therefore I don't see the point in rushing things back open, which is what some posters seem to want, it will probably just hasten the spread of the disease, it's not going to fix the economy.

Our domestic economy doesn’t matter now ? There is a lot outside our control. But a lot also in their control here. Keeping us in this total lockdown, is ott. Unless there is debt write off and there wasn’t last time. You might be banging a different tune , when one hundred percent of the population is living with way reduced living standards. Stand back and see the wood for the trees!

Idbatterim

rm212 wrote: »

Most at risk perhaps, but certainly not the only ones, absolutely not. There is still a significant risk to many other groups of people of all demographics. Furthermore, the fact that they live longer than ever does not mean that their lives are less valuable. They spent their life contributing to our society and we have a duty to look after them now. I’m not engaging with this anymore as seeing the cold, disgusting attitudes of people here is really depressing.

Hang on. If restrictions are lifted , who is asking anyone at risk to go out and act as all is normal ? Nobody ! It makes me laugh , no cost is too high to save lives. You haven’t been presented with your future living standards large drop bill yet !

Thelonious Monk

Idbatterim wrote: »

Our domestic economy doesn’t matter now ? There is a lot outside our control. But a lot also in their control here. Keeping us in this total lockdown, is ott. Unless there is debt write off and there wasn’t last time. You might be banging a different tune , when one hundred percent of the population is living with way reduced living standards. Stand back and see the wood for the trees!

We are all going to have worse living standards, no two ways about it at this stage.
The domestic economy matters and I'm sure maybe next month or so restrictions will be relaxed.
But people wont be rushing out to cafes and restaurants and gyms etc so a lot of them are going to go out of business.
I wont be able to pay my mortgage soon, but I very much doubt they'll evict me given the circumstances.
But what can you do.

Tenzor07

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The problem is they have no proper metric to decide if restrictions should be lifted or not. The testing is all over the place. Many and probably most of the "new" cases were infected weeks ago and are only getting processed now. The "German" cases could have been infected a month ago for all we know. Its pointless adding them into "new" cases as it completely skews all modelling. They need to estimate when people were infected. And the turnaround on tests has to be 1-2 days from the onset of symptoms to test results to have any proper value, otherwise the model is skewed.

Agreed.

The issue is that if the HSE aren't testing and tracing then the mathematical models they are using aren't going to help contain the outbreak, and they are using data off these incomplete models to recommend the economy stay shut down and people practically under house arrest.

They will keep hitting us with the restrictive lockdowns for much longer than is needed to be effective in containing the virus, until they get testing up to speed and can identify and isolate cases.

So we're at the mercy of lack of data and poor planning by the HSE/Government.

polesheep

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

My girlfriend lives in an apartment, she's loving the nice weather and goes for a walk before working from home every day. You can still go outside you know...

Good for her. There are many who are not so free to do as she does. I have a fantastic garden but I realise that there are many who don't.