Relaxation of restrictions

Thelonious Monk

polesheep wrote: »

Good for her. There are many who are not so free to do as she does. I have a fantastic garden but I realise that there are many who don't.

So you're saying some people in apartments can't leave the apartments, or what?

Idbatterim

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We are all going to have worse living standards, no two ways about it at this stage.
The domestic economy matters and I'm sure maybe next month or so restrictions will be relaxed.
But people wont be rushing out to cafes and restaurants and gyms etc so a lot of them are going to go out of business.
I wont be able to pay my mortgage soon, but I very much doubt they'll evict me given the circumstances.
But what can you do.

Gyms , cinemas etc shouldn’t reopen now in my opinion. It’s shutting down building and supply chain etc , that is total idiocy in my opinion. It’s just too much , let people adapt and innovate how they go about this situation and not a middle ground. While varadkar probably Binks he’s playing a blinder now , give it a few more weeks. When many businesses are consigned to scrap heap, we still have deaths and the vaccine is probably way out any way.

TheCitizen

polesheep wrote: »

I think you'll find that the hyperbole was on the other side of the argument.
"Who gives a rats arse about output if everyone you love dies."

I don’t know who said that cos you didn’t quote it properly did you? Most of the hyperbole on this thread is on the “won’t somebody think of the money” short sighted and short term and stupid attitude side.

Thelonious Monk

Idbatterim wrote: »

Gyms , cinemas etc shouldn’t reopen now in my opinion. It’s shutting down building and supply chain etc , that is total idiocy in my opinion. It’s just too much , let people adapt and innovate how they go about this situation and not a middle ground. While varadkar probably Binks he’s playing a blinder now , give it a few more weeks. When many businesses are consigned to scrap heap, we still have deaths and the vaccine is probably way out any way.

Yeah but I would imagine construction will be one of the first things to be reopened, I mean it's mostly healthy men working on sites for starters!
I'd say most of April will continue as is and then things like construction will come back online.

gmisk

Idbatterim wrote: »

Hang on. If restrictions are lifted , who is asking anyone at risk to go out and act as all is normal ? Nobody ! It makes me laugh , no cost is too high to save lives. You haven’t been presented with your future living standards large drop bill yet !

Employers would likely be asking people to go back to the office etc, even people at risk work......so that would likely lead to rammed public transport, which really wouldn't be helpful.

I can see the restrictions being lifted but not for another 4 weeks at the very minimum would be my guess, look at the majority of other countries.

Idbatterim

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don’t know who said that cos you didn’t quote it properly did you? Most of the hyperbole on this thread is on the “won’t somebody think of the money” short sighted and short term and stupid attitude side.

Think of the money ? Think of the domestic violence up , mental health issues. Suicide. Fear. Some people at near breaking point , imagine being locked up with a few kids , working from home etc. as if the corona virus , is the only thing to fear!

normanoffside

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah but what about the economy. People here would love to sacrifice off a few citizens if it meant they could earn money again. Greed more important that lives.

It’s not just about money or economy.
Have you ever considered people’s mental health/suicide rates/quality of life?
For most people going to work helps them feel good.

Just as an example, calls to childline are up 25% on normal.
Dentist are not working.
Non Covid operations cancelled. People on the waiting lists years and now back to square one.

You have to assess deaths and misery caused by having a lockdown when assessing if it’s worth it.

Idbatterim

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but I would imagine construction will be one of the first things to be reopened, I mean it's mostly healthy men working on sites for starters!
I'd say most of April will continue as is and then things like construction will come back online.

I don’t see why they took it offline. No housing being built etc, they have thrown a serious unnecessary spanner in the works ... this is what I am talking about with no urgency here , the construction lockdown should end immediately

Idbatterim

gmisk wrote: »

Employers would likely be asking people to go back to the office etc, even people at risk work......so that would likely lead to rammed public transport, which really wouldn't be helpful.

I can see the restrictions being lifted but not for another 4 weeks at the very minimum would be my guess, look at the majority of other countries.

I don’t think most employers of people that can work from home would ask you to go back in. I reckon there would be a decent increase in walking and cycling to work too

TheCitizen

Idbatterim wrote: »

Gyms , cinemas etc shouldn’t reopen now in my opinion. It’s shutting down building and supply chain etc , that is total idiocy in my opinion. It’s just too much , let people adapt and innovate how they go about this situation and not a middle ground. While varadkar probably Binks he’s playing a blinder now , give it a few more weeks. When many businesses are consigned to scrap heap, we still have deaths and the vaccine is probably way out any way.

What supply chain is being shut down? The buildings were closed down along with everything else to get a grip on the community transfer of the virus and to ensure the health system didn’t go into meltdown. Once they are over the peak some restrictions will be lifted and effective treatments will become available. They are playing this well so far, the last thing needed now is to do what you appear to be doing and panic.

polesheep

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So you're saying some people in apartments can't leave the apartments, or what?

You clearly have a decent quality of life. Many don't. Their circumstances or the place in which they live are often a lot less than ideal. In normal times they can get some relief, maybe it's a break from the children, an opportunity to socialise with another adult, a trip into town, or a walk in a park. Telling someone who lives in an apartment beside an industrial estate that they can get out for a walk is unlikely to lift their spirits very much.

TheCitizen

Idbatterim wrote: »

Think of the money ? Think of the domestic violence up , mental health issues. Suicide. Fear. Some people at near breaking point , imagine being locked up with a few kids , working from home etc. as if the corona virus , is the only thing to fear!

You appear to have a lot of fear in you. The restrictions are working, this is not the time to panic

Idbatterim

TheCitizen wrote: »

What supply chain is being shut down? The buildings were closed down along with everything else to get a grip on the community transfer of the virus and to ensure the health system didn’t go into meltdown. Once they are over the peak some restrictions will be lifted and effective treatments will become available. They are playing this well so far, the last thing needed now is to do what you appear to be doing and panic.

Taking a few hundred thousand extra jobs out , was idiocy. They could have coped with it. I’m not panicking , but I see where this no vision, is leading us. They think they are taking the easy path , this path is going to have serious consequences

AdamD

pjohnson wrote: »

I'd have thought people would be more worried about this virus that, if left unrestricted, would risk their own or their families actual lives. I'd prefer first and foremost to keep all my family members alive. I would have thought most people would think the same but this thread clearly shows different.

How many people have to die in traffic accidents before you stop driving?

Come on, these are crappy, emotional arguments. And again people are ignoring, if you trash the economy you'll end up with underfunded public services and more will die long term.

Luckily I'm sure the government realise this and know that the lockdown is temporary and restrictions will have to ease in a few weeks.

gmisk

normanoffside wrote: »

It’s not just about money or economy.
Have you ever considered people’s mental health/suicide rates/quality of life?
For most people going to work helps them feel good.

Just as an example, calls to childline are up 25% on normal.
Dentist are not working.
Non Covid operations cancelled. People on the waiting lists years and now back to square one.

You have to assess deaths and misery caused by having a lockdown when assessing if it’s worth it.

I think dentists are working but only in cases of emergency.

But I agree it's a balance that has to be made.

polesheep

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don’t know who said that cos you didn’t quote it properly did you? Most of the hyperbole on this thread is on the “won’t somebody think of the money” short sighted and short term and stupid attitude side.

Economy and money are two different things.

And if you are going to be pedantic, the word is 'because' not 'cos'.

Naked Lepper

polesheep wrote: »

Good for her. There are many who are not so free to do as she does. I have afantastic garden but I realise that there are many who don't.

lol, fair play to u.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

Think of the money ? Think of the domestic violence up , mental health issues. Suicide. Fear. Some people at near breaking point , imagine being locked up with a few kids , working from home etc. as if the corona virus , is the only thing to fear!

I honestly don't think you care about the mental health impact. We'd also face a severe mental health if large proportions of the population were to start dropping dead as a result of not taking the measures we have. I'm technically higher risk due to a chronic illness btw, I'm 28 but sure I'm expendable.

Also work for an Irish company that expects no business for months regardless of if everyone went back to work in the morning. It's a global hit, every country is taking similar measures.

tobefrank321

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So you're saying some people in apartments can't leave the apartments, or what?

Of course she should be allowed leave it, but she should take precautions. Apartment blocks are a prime candidate to spread cv19. If someone coughs in the hallway other people will pick it up. If they touch the lift buttons or door handles the same. Hundreds of people use apartment blocks and it only needs one infected person to infect many others.

gmisk

Idbatterim wrote: »

I don’t think most employers of people that can work from home would ask you to go back in. I reckon there would be a decent increase in walking and cycling to work too

I personally think you are wrong.
I work in a large CS department there were still a large number of people working in office until they were literally forcibly closed.
Walking and cycling is just not hugely realistic for a lot of people. The majority of people in my office have long commutes.

Thelonious Monk

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Of course she should be allowed leave it, but she should take precautions. Apartment blocks are a prime candidate to spread cv19. If someone coughs in the hallway other people will pick it up. If they touch the lift buttons or door handles the same. Hundreds of people use apartment blocks and it only needs one infected person to infect many others.

A poster was saying what about the people living in apartments, as if they were locked down. People in apartments can still leave and go for walks etc.

TheCitizen

Idbatterim wrote: »

Taking a few hundred thousand extra jobs out , was idiocy. They could have coped with it. I’m not panicking , but I see where this no vision, is leading us. They think they are taking the easy path , this path is going to have serious consequences

How is it the easy path? Do you think they take decisions like this lightly? The vision is clear, when they get to the other side of the peak and the evidence is consistent that we’re on the other side of the peak then some restrictions will then be lifted.

A few hundred thousand “extra” jobs? Where are you coming up with these figures? Are you just making it up as you go along? I’m not seeing much vision in your negative hyperbole

polesheep

Naked Lepper wrote: »

lol, fair play to u.

:DNitpicker lol I meant in the sense that I have somewhere to get out into.

normanoffside

gmisk wrote: »

I think dentists are working but only in cases of emergency.

But I agree it's a balance that has to be made.

Yes but by not treating 'non-emergencies', minor issues become emergencies.
The same can be said in other areas of health care.

TheCitizen

polesheep wrote: »

Economy and money are two different things.

And if you are going to be pedantic, the word is 'because' not 'cos'.

LOL, it’s hardly pedantic to point out that you put in a quote as “evidence” of hyperbole on the other side of the argument but don’t quote it properly so we can link back to the original comment. You could have just wrote it yourself and put quotation marks around it for all we know. Poor stuff.

tobefrank321

I'd say the government and HSE will only consider restrictions being lifted when ICU numbers plateau and go down significantly. Its ICU capacity they are most interested in. So we could be several months off restrictions being lifted if we follow their model.

They need to target it better though. Vulnerable categories, healthcare workers and nursing home staff need to be somehow protected, while not impacting the rest of society. Personally I'd also favour fines for those who are showing the symptoms of covid19 but don't isolate. These people are reckless.

Naked Lepper

polesheep wrote: »

:DNitpicker lol I meant in the sense that I have somewhere to get out into.

just messin

rm212

gmisk wrote: »

I personally think you are wrong.
I work in a large CS department there were still a large number of people working in office until they were literally forcibly closed.
Walking and cycling is just not hugely realistic for a lot of people. The majority of people in my office have long commutes.

My partner was sent home from their workplace, but they were among 10-20% of the total staff on the team that were sent home. This is a job done entirely via an online platform. They only sent home the people who were trained to work in a specific “queue” where there was nobody else in the office trained for that queue (so each person sent home was the only person who could work a specific queue). Essentially, the employees they couldn’t afford to get ill and need time off, were sent home to safety. The others stayed in until the government banned it.

normanoffside

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'd say the government and HSE will only consider restrictions being lifted when ICU numbers plateau and go down significantly. Its ICU capacity they are most interested in. So we could be several months off restrictions being lifted if we follow their model.

ICU numbers have already plateaued

rm212

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I honestly don't think you care about the mental health impact. We'd also face a severe mental health if large proportions of the population were to start dropping dead as a result of not taking the measures we have. I'm technically higher risk due to a chronic illness btw, I'm 28 but sure I'm expendable.

Also work for an Irish company that expects no business for months regardless of if everyone went back to work in the morning. It's a global hit, every country is taking similar measures.

Also have a chronic illness and I’m 24. Certainly feeling expendable from some comments on this thread... that doesn’t help my pre-existing medicated mental health issues that people supposedly care about. As you say, I reckon it’s a mask for the real motive