Relaxation of restrictions

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Blueshoe wrote: »

Once the global pandemic is under control here in Ireland I'd be in favour of business as usual.

That's pretty much what we're saying.

ThewhiteJesus

i was just in the phoenix park and it's packed, groups all sitting round each other.
Nothings changed yet anyway

MadYaker

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Are you driving in Dublin? I was only out a few times but was stopped numerous. Most amount of checkpoints/stops I've seen in decades of driving.

Galway and mostly at weird hours. I’ve seen them driving around but no checkpoints. To be fair I think I’ve driven my car 4 times in the last 3 weeks so they could be doing checkpoints for all I know.

terrydel

housemouse wrote: »

Terry, you are not worth my time. I enjoy following this thread, though, so please feel free to continue provoking me. I will continue to remind you that you aren't worth my time, and everyone will be bored by it.

For everyone who isn't emotionally threatened by facts and logic, here is an article you may have missed by a retired Professor of Pathology. He explains some of the key issues surrounding the data:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think

And yet you still reply. Making a liar of yourself again.
When you answer the question of why our approach is 'panicked and poor', offer an alternative approach and reasons and proof as to why its better, you can toddle off then.

You where blatantly wrong calling our approach 'panicked and poor', if you can bring yourself to actually admit that, you may win back some of your long departed reputation.

Hilarious that the best you can do is an article from a media outlet that Johnson was a massive part of and is hugely pro Tory/Johnson, and from 2 weeks ago. Facts since have shown that the theory put forward by that article to so wildly off track as to be hilarious.
The countries faring best by a huge measure are those taking similar or identical approach to ours, the one you called panicked and poor.
Have some honour and admit you are wrong.

BanditLuke

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

i was just in the phoenix park and it's packed, groups all sitting round each other.
Nothings changed yet anyway

Do you live beside the park?

housemouse

terrydel wrote: »

And yet you still reply. Making a liar of youraelf again.
When you answer the question of why our approach is 'panicked and poor', offer an alternative approach and reasons as to why its better, you can toddle off then.

You where blatantly wrong calling our approach 'panicked and poor', if you can bring yourself to actually admit that, you may win back some of your longdeparted reputation.

Terry, every time you put some verbal excrement on this thread, I will provide another piece of evidence for the open-minded, rational people to consider.

Dr Knut Wittkowski was head of the Department of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design at The Rockefeller University, New York.

This is what he says about how to stop the virus:

"As with every respiratory disease, we should protect the elderly and fragile because when they get pneumonia, they have a high risk of dying of the pneumonia. So that is one of the key issues that we should keep in mind. On the other hand, children do very well with these diseases. They’re evolutionarily designed to be exposed to all sorts of viruses during their lifetime, and so they should keep going to school and infecting each other. Then, that contributes to herd immunity, which means after about four weeks at the most, the elderly people could start joining their family because then the virus would have been extinguished.

With all respiratory diseases, the only thing that stops the disease is herd immunity. About 80% of the people need to have had contact with the virus, and the majority of them won’t even have recognized that they were infected, or they had very, very mild symptoms, especially if they are children. So, it’s very important to keep the schools open and kids mingling to spread the virus to get herd immunity as fast as possible, and then the elderly people, who should be separated, and the nursing homes should be closed during that time, can come back and meet their children and grandchildren after about 4 weeks when the virus has been exterminated.

Well, what people are trying to do is flatten the curve. I don’t really know why. But, what happens is if you flatten the curve, you also prolong, to widen it, and it takes more time. And I don’t see a good reason for a respiratory disease to stay in the population longer than necessary."


He goes on to say that China's big advantage is that the virus peaked there before social distancing was implemented, i.e. after the Chinese people developed herd immunity:

"They had an advantage that in the beginning, they didn’t know what they were dealing with. So, it took them a long time to start the containment or social distancing, which, in the course of the epidemic is good, because there was enough time for the virus to reach herd immunity before the social distancing started."

housemouse

link to the above interview:

https://ratical.org/PerspectivesOnPandemic-II.html

Plumbthedepths

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

i was just in the phoenix park and it's packed, groups all sitting round each other.
Nothings changed yet anyway

Phoenix park is 1800 acres, largest enclosed park in Europe. Every person in Dublin and surrounding counties must be there if it's packed.

terrydel

ITman88 wrote: »

The lockdown fairies are completely ignoring those facts.

Wuhan, Lombardy, Madrid and Paris ain’t anything like Ireland.

Even our most densely populated cities never built up, they built out.

We have so much working in our favour, including population density and age profile.

34 European cities have a greater population than Dublin.

The bit you are ignoring is that lockdown works far better than the approach you are espousing.

Plumbthedepths

housemouse wrote: »

link to the above interview:

https://ratical.org/PerspectivesOnPandemic-II.html

I suspect you are wasting your time.

housemouse

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I suspect you are wasting your time.

I know Terry can't process new information, but I suspect that most people reading this thread are able to.

tobefrank321

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I genuinely believe there are people taking pleasure from the current restrictions. Plenty of evidence of it here.

I'd imagine I'd be representative of most people.

I don't enjoy the current restrictions but I am willing to put up with them on two conditions. 1. That their success can be quantified properly - and not with some shambolic testing regime which throws in old cases with newer ones and says they are all "new" cases. 2. There's a plan for post lockdown which can get most people back in their jobs, but which takes account for protecting the vulnerable and healthcare workers and ensures there's enough ICU beds and ventilators for an expected rise in cases.

Unfortunately the government or HSE haven't shown themselves to be capable of meeting either of these conditions.

Plumbthedepths

housemouse wrote: »

I know Terry can't process new information, but I suspect that most people reading this thread are able to.

If you didn't watch it, I suggest you watch last night's Tonight show on the player if you can.

ThewhiteJesus

BanditLuke wrote: »

Do you live beside the park?

I live in the zoo with your ma.

TheCitizen

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

What we're doing here really isn't that much less, in terms of the virus spreading.

Ireland has the advantage over cities like Wuhan of low population density as well. It's far, far easier for most people in Ireland to completely avoid contact with others than it is for people in urban China. Even getting into a lift in your own apartment block to go downstairs and accept a food delivery is far more risk than most people in Ireland currently have to tolerate.

Yes that's why the restrictions appear to be working

housemouse

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you didn't watch it, I suggest you watch last night's Tonight show on the player if you can.

any part of it in particular?

TheCitizen

terrydel wrote: »

The bit you are ignoring is that lockdown works far better than the approach you are espousing.

That poster has a pattern. He makes a charge every now and then with an insulting reference to anyone he thinks he disagrees with but then when challenged he'll typically backtrack and come back with something like; "oh I agree with the current restrictions etc... i'm just (reasonably) asking the question how long do they need to be in force...etc..." He's not on his own on this thread, Mr 16 likes there is another prime example.

terrydel

TheCitizen wrote: »

Some people are trying to make the best of things.

Others cannot handle any imposition on their lives. No matter what the reason.

Plumbthedepths

housemouse wrote: »

any part of it in particular?

No, it was an interesting discussion, the older of the two health professionals was pragmatic. Something which is sorely missing at the moment amidst the hysteria.
I did like his reply when the other panelist was praising the Chinese numbers "I wouldn't believe the Lord's prayer out of the Chinese".

terrydel

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually I'm referring to to the lockdown fetists of which they are several.

Name them.

Blueshoe

terrydel wrote: »

Name them.

Anyone who isn't whinging

TheCitizen

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I genuinely believe there are people taking pleasure from the current restrictions. Plenty of evidence of it here.

Really? I wonder what type of weirdo would like the current restrictions but I guess there's all sorts out there.

As for this thread what I'm seeing is a proliferation of panic merchant predicting doom and gloom and bitching about the restrictions that are bearing fruit it appears.

housemouse

TheCitizen wrote: »

That poster has a pattern. He makes a charge every now and then with an insulting reference to anyone he thinks he disagrees with but then when challenged he'll typically backtrack and come back with something like; "oh I agree with the current restrictions etc... i'm just (reasonably) asking the question how long do they need to be in force...etc..." He's not on his own on this thread, Mr 16 likes there is another prime example.

You can't show one example of me backtracking.

housemouse

TheCitizen wrote: »

Really? I wonder what type of weirdo would like the current restrictions but I guess there's all sorts out there.

As for this thread what I'm seeing is a proliferation of panic merchant predicting doom and gloom and bitching about the restrictions that are bearing fruit it appears.

The lockdown policy bears fruit in the same way that this rock bears fruit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgNvKr010pc

tobefrank321

TheCitizen wrote: »

Really? I wonder what type of weirdo would like the current restrictions but I guess there's all sorts out there.

As for this thread what I'm seeing is a proliferation of panic merchant predicting doom and gloom and bitching about the restrictions that are bearing fruit it appears.

There is no evidence to indicate they are bearing fruit. Our testing has been a shambles. If 1500 swabs are taken on a Monday, and 750 processed in Ireland and 750 processed in Germany, are both results issued on the same day?

If we do 1500 swabs on a Tuesday, are the results of 1500 tests given out on a Thursday or is more likely the case, processing ramped up and the results of 2000 swabs given on a Thursday.

Testing has to involve a consistent baseline, eg 1500 swabs and results every day. There is no evidence that is happening. When they boast of ramping up to 4500 tests a day, they invalidate the baseline. And then we can't tell what the numbers are.

As for deaths and ICU admissions, deaths are increasing it seems, certainly week on week. No evidence there of measures working. ICU admissions have plateaued, but then again they could jump next week. We simply don't know.

So we don't have the conditions in place to know whether to lift restrictions or not.

terrydel

housemouse wrote: »

Terry, every time you put some verbal excrement on this thread, I will provide another piece of evidence for the open-minded, rational people to consider.

Dr Knut Wittkowski was head of the Department of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design at The Rockefeller University, New York.

This is what he says about how to stop the virus:

"As with every respiratory disease, we should protect the elderly and fragile because when they get pneumonia, they have a high risk of dying of the pneumonia. So that is one of the key issues that we should keep in mind. On the other hand, children do very well with these diseases. They’re evolutionarily designed to be exposed to all sorts of viruses during their lifetime, and so they should keep going to school and infecting each other. Then, that contributes to herd immunity, which means after about four weeks at the most, the elderly people could start joining their family because then the virus would have been extinguished.

With all respiratory diseases, the only thing that stops the disease is herd immunity. About 80% of the people need to have had contact with the virus, and the majority of them won’t even have recognized that they were infected, or they had very, very mild symptoms, especially if they are children. So, it’s very important to keep the schools open and kids mingling to spread the virus to get herd immunity as fast as possible, and then the elderly people, who should be separated, and the nursing homes should be closed during that time, can come back and meet their children and grandchildren after about 4 weeks when the virus has been exterminated.

Well, what people are trying to do is flatten the curve. I don’t really know why. But, what happens is if you flatten the curve, you also prolong, to widen it, and it takes more time. And I don’t see a good reason for a respiratory disease to stay in the population longer than necessary."


He goes on to say that China's big advantage is that the virus peaked there before social distancing was implemented, i.e. after the Chinese people developed herd immunity:

"They had an advantage that in the beginning, they didn’t know what they were dealing with. So, it took them a long time to start the containment or social distancing, which, in the course of the epidemic is good, because there was enough time for the virus to reach herd immunity before the social distancing started."

See you resort to insults. Posting other peoples opinions isnt winning you an argument, the facts in front of our eyes do.
Lockdown works and is working far better than the alternative, no amount of copy and pasting from your echo chamber will show otherwise.
You were manifestly and demonstrably wrong to say our approach is panicked and poor. I've zero respect for you as you refuse to withdraw that comment or explain it, or admit it was wrong. SEE ya, if you want to continue that debate pm me.

terrydel

housemouse wrote: »

I know Terry can't process new information, but I suspect that most people reading this thread are able to.

I'd buy and sell you pal, thats a fact even you can rely on.

Tell me how

housemouse wrote: »

Terry, every time you put some verbal excrement on this thread, I will provide another piece of evidence for the open-minded, rational people to consider.

Dr Knut Wittkowski was head of the Department of Biostatistics, Epidemiology, and Research Design at The Rockefeller University, New York.

This is what he says about how to stop the virus:

"As with every respiratory disease, we should protect the elderly and fragile because when they get pneumonia, they have a high risk of dying of the pneumonia. So that is one of the key issues that we should keep in mind. On the other hand, children do very well with these diseases. They’re evolutionarily designed to be exposed to all sorts of viruses during their lifetime, and so they should keep going to school and infecting each other. Then, that contributes to herd immunity, which means after about four weeks at the most, the elderly people could start joining their family because then the virus would have been extinguished.

With all respiratory diseases, the only thing that stops the disease is herd immunity. About 80% of the people need to have had contact with the virus, and the majority of them won’t even have recognized that they were infected, or they had very, very mild symptoms, especially if they are children. So, it’s very important to keep the schools open and kids mingling to spread the virus to get herd immunity as fast as possible, and then the elderly people, who should be separated, and the nursing homes should be closed during that time, can come back and meet their children and grandchildren after about 4 weeks when the virus has been exterminated.

Well, what people are trying to do is flatten the curve. I don’t really know why. But, what happens is if you flatten the curve, you also prolong, to widen it, and it takes more time. And I don’t see a good reason for a respiratory disease to stay in the population longer than necessary."


He goes on to say that China's big advantage is that the virus peaked there before social distancing was implemented, i.e. after the Chinese people developed herd immunity:

"They had an advantage that in the beginning, they didn’t know what they were dealing with. So, it took them a long time to start the containment or social distancing, which, in the course of the epidemic is good, because there was enough time for the virus to reach herd immunity before the social distancing started."

Are you suggesting that the professor believes that China has achieved herd immunity?

With a population of 1.38B people?
With 80% having been infected?
At 1.5% mortality rate, that would be over 16M deaths.

If this has not happened, where do you think is the discrepancy in the professors viewpoint?

Tokyo

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

I live in the zoo with your ma.

Mod: You're not interested in adding anything of quality to the thread. Don't post in this thread again.

housemouse

terrydel wrote: »

See you resort to insults. Posting other peoples opinions isnt winning you an argument, the facts in front of our eyes do.
Lockdown works and is working far better than the alternative, no amount of copy and pasting from your echo chamber will show otherwise.
You were manifestly and demonstrably wrong to say our approach is panicked and poor. I've zero respect for you as you refuse to withdraw that comment or explain it, or admit it was wrong. SEE ya, if you want to continue that debate pm me.

Oh no! I'll be devastated if you don't speak to me any more

Since you're back, enjoy this reminder that herd immunity is already happening or has already happened in the UK (and no thanks to lockdown):

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-half-uk-population-oxford-university-study-finds-a4396721.html