Normal People [BBC - RTE] - [**SPOILERS**]

sheroman01

Sleepy wrote: »

Quite enjoyed this and it's obviously stuck with me a bit since I'm here today posting about it...

The one thing I wasn't sure of was the portrayal of Marianne's submissive tendencies. Were they trying to portray it as some sort of negative reaction to her family relationship? As a "bad thing"? It was verging close to the territory of kink-shaming imo.

It felt like there was a lot of Marianne's time in Sweden left on the cutting room floor: did they continue with the photo-shoot? Did it go a lot further? What happened the photos? Was it abusive? Was that dynamic part of their dom/sub relationship which she had instigated? Was this just the potentially misguided experimentation of a young woman in response to an abusive family and being introduced to BDSM by a toxic ex boyfriend? Or were we to believe that she was genuinely into it?

If the latter, they rather mis-stepped when she was back in bed with Connell: her request to be dominated and hit felt more like she was testing him (as a proxy for all men?) than looking to bring a D/S dynamic into their sex life. It was rather clumsily handled. Then again, maybe that was the point? That such complex sexual relationships can be very clumsy (and potentially dangerous) when being explored without proper communication?

I had the exact same thoughts, even if the intentions weren't to portray it negatively, it kinda came across that way, and as you say it was handled in a clumsy manner. It was as if "only broken people can be submissive, or into BDSM". The scene towards the end,

where Marianne storms out of Connell's bedroom after he declined her request

really frustrated me - this so gives the wrong impression - bringing BDSM into the bedroom seconds before sex, without any communication prior, and then storming out because someone kindly says no. Yes, it highlights the miscommunication, and lack of, between the two but still, on screen it paints such a bad picture.

olestoepoke

sheroman01 wrote: »

I had the exact same thoughts, even if the intentions weren't to portray it negatively, it kinda came across that way, and as you say it was handled in a clumsy manner. It was as if "only broken people can be submissive, or into BDSM". The scene towards the end,

where Marianne storms out of Connell's bedroom after he declined her request

really frustrated me - this so gives the wrong impression - bringing BDSM into the bedroom seconds before sex, without any communication prior, and then storming out because someone kindly says no. Yes, it highlig hts the miscommunication, and lack of, between the two but still, on screen it paints such a bad picture.

Being into submission and BDSM is perfectly fine and can be part of a healthy sex life if that's your thing but being into it for the wrong unhealthy reasons is not ok and I think this is where they were going with it in this show. I'm not a psychologist but I think she had issues with self loathing etc.

Harry Palmr

The media are still going to town on this - full frontal shocker in the next episode at TV pace.

Warning Sun link.

www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/5407539/rte-longest-sex-scene-normal-people-nude-paul-mescal-bishop/

olestoepoke

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The media are still going to town on this - full frontal shocker in the next episode at TV pace.

Warning Sun link.

www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/5407539/rte-longest-sex-scene-normal-people-nude-paul-mescal-bishop/

What did the Bishop think was wrong with it? The hypocrisy from an establishment that degraded women for decades, put 800 babies in a septic tank and raped countless children. Not all the priests were at it but the hierarchy are as guilty because of the cover ups and moving priests to different parishes where they could meet other children. Go away Bishop you don't get to give your opinion on this one sorry.

Homelander

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The media are still going to town on this - full frontal shocker in the next episode at TV pace.

Warning Sun link.

www.thesun.ie/tvandshowbiz/5407539/rte-longest-sex-scene-normal-people-nude-paul-mescal-bishop/

“I’m not surprised we have Covid-19 with this sort of stuff on TV"

:D:D

IamtheWalrus

Definite unconscious attraction from Connell's mum towards him. Some Oedipal stuff there.

Sardonicat

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Definite unconscious attraction from Connell's mum towards him. Some Oedipal stuff there.

What nonsense.

JP Liz V1

Looks to be a hit both in the UK and US as well as here

Purple Mountain

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Looks to be a hit both in the UK and US as well as here

Very much well deserved.

Thargor

James Corden has been raving about it on Twitter, he has a massive following in the US:

https://extra.ie/2020/05/07/entertainment/movies-tv/james-corden-normal-people-changed-his-life

Hamachi

I'm a guy in my late 30s and am definitely not part of 'Normal People' target demographic. Due to buzz around the novel and the fact that it was long-listed for the man booker prize, I did read it late last year. Whilst I enjoyed the novel, it didn't have any profound impact on me. However, I think that the TV adaptation is sensational.

This is the first time I've encountered a TV series that is superior to the source material. Firstly, huge kudos to both Daisy Edgar Jones and Paul Mescal. The success of the series hinges on their performances; they both do a phenomenal job in embodying Marianne and Connell. Although I can't relate directly to the romantic upheaval depicted, the series vividly evokes that time in your life from 18-22, when you are struggling to find your own identity and to establish your place in the adult world. The show transported me right back to that part of my life.

However, there is one aspect of the TV series that irked me. I know that I'm going to be slated for this, but I'll express my opinion anyway. It's the persistent, almost aggressive need to 'internationalize' or 'multi-culturalise' the secondary characters. Characters who are clearly written as Irish in the book are portrayed by actors of other nationalities ethnicities in the TV series. I've gone back to the book and here are some of the examples that jumped out at me:

- Connell's school friends in the novel are Eric, Rob, and Jack Hynes. The former two remain in the TV series but the latter is played by a non-speaking, black actor. It's a pretty incongruous substitution in a rural, Irish secondary school.

- Gareth, Marianne's first college boyfriend, is an upper-middle class Dublin guy in the novel. Played by an English actor in the TV adaptation.

- Joanna, Marianne's closest university friend is portrayed by an English actress. Although not explicitly stated in the novel, it does mention that she is writing her dissertation on Irish trade unionism, a highly unlikely subject matter for a British student at Trinity.

- Helen Brophy, Connell's girlfriend in college. In the book, she is clearly a middle-class Dublin girl studying medicine. This character is played by an actress of East Asian ethnicity in the TV series.

- Lukas, Marianne's boyfriend on Erasmus in Sweden. In the novel, his archetypical Scandinavian looks are mentioned. Indeed, Marianne, states something about him having very blond hair. The TV series represents Lukas as a black guy.

- Therapist / Counsellor who works with Connell. In the novel, she's identified as a middle-aged Irish woman called Yvonne. The TV series represents her as black, English woman.

I know this may seem like nit-picking, but I don't understand the need to 'internationalize' the uniquely Irish milieu of the novel. What's the purpose of this? To make the TV series appeal to a wider, global audience? To display liberal or progressive values?

Anyway, rant over. I thoroughly enjoyed the TV adaptation. As others have mentioned on this thread, the story has been told told perfectly now; I hope they leave well enough alone.

Harry Palmr

Casting is often done on a colourblind basis - talent first and all that. Maybe Sally Rooney was unwittingly too white Irish centric in a country where people who are not white and/or Irish account for about 12% of the total population, which is 1 in 8.

wakka12

I think there were just a lot of English actors in it because its a BBC production. Marianna herself is also English. As for their ethnicities, I didnt actually really notice it myself other than the Swedish guy being black. Ireland is an incredibly racially diverse country, especially among the college age cohort in Dublin, so I think it an accurate representation really. It would be less true to real life if they were all Irish ethnicity imo

Bredabe

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/entertainment/tv/archbishop-calls-for-rte-to-cancel-normal-people-ahead-of-longest-ever-sex-scene/ar-BB13RdF3?li=BBr5HCU&ocid=mailsignout
Married people being forced to see a naked man on tv!

olestoepoke

Bredabe wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/entertainment/tv/archbishop-calls-for-rte-to-cancel-normal-people-ahead-of-longest-ever-sex-scene/ar-BB13RdF3?li=BBr5HCU&ocid=mailsignout
Married people being forced to see a naked man on tv!

Please crawl back under the rock you came from archbishop. Ireland has changed and you and your organisation no longer has a say in our affairs, thank god.:D

lainey_d_123

Hamachi wrote: »

I'm a guy in my late 30s and am definitely not part of 'Normal People' target demographic. Due to buzz around the novel and the fact that it was long-listed for the man booker prize, I did read it late last year. Whilst I enjoyed the novel, it didn't have any profound impact on me. However, I think that the TV adaptation is sensational.

This is the first time I've encountered a TV series that is superior to the source material. Firstly, huge kudos to both Daisy Edgar Jones and Paul Mescal. The success of the series hinges on their performances; they both do a phenomenal job in embodying Marianne and Connell. Although I can't relate directly to the romantic upheaval depicted, the series vividly evokes that time in your life from 18-22, when you are struggling to find your own identity and to establish your place in the adult world. The show transported me right back to that part of my life.

However, there is one aspect of the TV series that irked me. I know that I'm going to be slated for this, but I'll express my opinion anyway. It's the persistent, almost aggressive need to 'internationalize' or 'multi-culturalise' the secondary characters. Characters who are clearly written as Irish in the book are portrayed by actors of other nationalities ethnicities in the TV series. I've gone back to the book and here are some of the examples that jumped out at me:

- Connell's school friends in the novel are Eric, Rob, and Jack Hynes. The former two remain in the TV series but the latter is played by a non-speaking, black actor. It's a pretty incongruous substitution in a rural, Irish secondary school.

- Gareth, Marianne's first college boyfriend, is an upper-middle class Dublin guy in the novel. Played by an English actor in the TV adaptation.

- Joanna, Marianne's closest university friend is portrayed by an English actress. Although not explicitly stated in the novel, it does mention that she is writing her dissertation on Irish trade unionism, a highly unlikely subject matter for a British student at Trinity.

- Helen Brophy, Connell's girlfriend in college. In the book, she is clearly a middle-class Dublin girl studying medicine. This character is played by an actress of East Asian ethnicity in the TV series.

- Lukas, Marianne's boyfriend on Erasmus in Sweden. In the novel, his archetypical Scandinavian looks are mentioned. Indeed, Marianne, states something about him having very blond hair. The TV series represents Lukas as a black guy.

- Therapist / Counsellor who works with Connell. In the novel, she's identified as a middle-aged Irish woman called Yvonne. The TV series represents her as black, English woman.

I know this may seem like nit-picking, but I don't understand the need to 'internationalize' the uniquely Irish milieu of the novel. What's the purpose of this? To make the TV series appeal to a wider, global audience? To display liberal or progressive values?

Anyway, rant over. I thoroughly enjoyed the TV adaptation. As others have mentioned on this thread, the story has been told told perfectly now; I hope they leave well enough alone.

I'd actually say the book was unusual in so many people being white. There are absolutely loads of English people in Trinity from all kinds of racial backgrounds.

Ireland itself is also racially diverse these days. The actor playing Philip is Irish born of Ghanaian descent, the actress playing Helen looks Asian but given that her name is Aoife Hinds, I'd say she's Irish born as well, and probably a middle class Dublin girl. Why does 'middle class Dublin girl' mean 'white' to you? Connell's black school friend does have some lines and he sounds Irish as well. Is it that unusual to have a handful of black students in rural schools these days? I wouldn't say it was.

Thinking back to my friends in Trinity, a good number of them weren't white, including the Irish ones. One was half Chinese, another half Iranian and another was half Brazilian. They may not have looked 'Irish' but they were otherwise typical Dublin upper middle class people who went to the posh schools and lived in nice houses in Dalkey and Blackrock. And then there were a good few with a parent from another European country, who didn't look typically 'Irish'. Is the TV series not just reflecting the actual reality of Dublin and Ireland today?

Hamachi

wakka12 wrote: »

I think there were just a lot of English actors in it because its a BBC production. Marianna herself is also English. As for their ethnicities, I didnt actually really notice it myself other than the Swedish guy being black. Ireland is an incredibly racially diverse country, especially among the college age cohort in Dublin, so I think it an accurate representation really. It would be less true to real life if they were all Irish ethnicity imo

That's a great point actually. I forgot that BBC produced the TV adaptation. This fact explains the proliferation of English accents in the Dublin-based episodes. I'm aware that Daisy Edgar Jones is English. She handled the unique cadence of the Irish accent incredibly well, perhaps the best I have ever heard from a non-Irish born performer. I really hope that both she and Paul Mescal are rewarded for their performances.

I disagree with your latter point. Ireland is not incredibly racially diverse. Our demographics are quite different to the US and the UK. The ROI is ~95% white; Northern Ireland even more so.

My family's story actually mirrors the narrative of the book. We come from a rural town in the west and all attended college in Dublin. My youngest sister is studying in Trinity at the moment. I asked her about this yesterday. Her thoughts on it are that whilst there is indeed a high % of international students in Trinity, the social circles, friends, and romantic partners of native students remain overwhelmingly Irish.

Apologies for getting hung up on this. It's just the secondary casting seems genuinely ham-fisted to me, in an otherwise superb adaptation.

JP Liz V1

Thargor wrote: »

James Corden has been raving about it on Twitter, he has a massive following in the US:

https://extra.ie/2020/05/07/entertainment/movies-tv/james-corden-normal-people-changed-his-life

So is Kourtney Kardashian

lainey_d_123

Hamachi wrote: »

That's a great point actually. I forgot that BBC produced the TV adaptation. This fact explains the proliferation of English accents in the Dublin-based episodes. I'm aware that Daisy Edgar Jones is English. She handled the unique cadence of the Irish accent incredibly well, perhaps the best I have ever heard from a non-Irish born performer. I really hope that both she and Paul Mescal are rewarded for their performances.

I disagree with your latter point. Ireland is not incredibly racially diverse. Our demographics are quite different to the US and the UK. The ROI is ~95% white; Northern Ireland even more so.

My family's story actually mirrors the narrative of the book. We come from a rural town in the west and all attended college in Dublin. My youngest sister is studying in Trinity at the moment. I asked her about this yesterday. Her thoughts on it are that whilst there is indeed a high % of international students in Trinity, the social circles, friends, and romantic partners of native students remain overwhelmingly Irish.

Apologies for getting hung up on this. It's just the secondary casting seems genuinely ham-fisted to me, in an otherwise superb adaptation.

As someone else said, non-Irish and non-white people are about 1 in 8 of the population. Trinity was pretty racially diverse even when I started, going on 17 years ago now (hard to believe it's that long!). The people who are college aged now would have been born in the late nineties at the earliest, right when the Celtic Tiger and immigration were in full swing. I think it'd be odd if someone's social circle in Trinity was all white, these days.

Perhaps your sister's view is based on her own circle and perhaps she's projecting her own reluctance to socialise with 'outsiders'? Even 17 years ago, my own friend group was fairly diverse. Out of 6 of us who were close friends on my course, 2 were non-white and Irish born and several of us were dating non-Irish people.

I kind of know what you mean in that I also noticed a higher proportion of non-white characters than I might have expected, but when you actually think about it, is it that many? In the rural school you see what, 2 black students? Out of hundreds?

MisterAnarchy

I think Connell looks like hes in his early 20s, no idea where anyone's getting 30 from.

Ive just watched the fourth episode and he looks years younger than most of the so called Trinity students ,most of whom look in their thirties.
They are supposed to be freshers ,18-19 ,that Gareth guy looks more like a Professor than a student .

Marianne has completely reinvented herself after a couple of months in college and confidently moved on with a new man ,people are sitting around pontificting about gravity ,and having wine parties ,its like they are trying to play grown ups .
The whole thing is completely unrealistic compared to the previous episodes.

IamtheWalrus

I felt Connell was hiding a lot of aggression underneath his exterior. I can't imagine the couple surviving a relationship long term. Both were too messed up.

take everything

Just finished it there.
Overall pretty great.

The end scene was very affecting.
And i don't usually get affected by stuff like this.

SusieBlue

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I felt Connell was hiding a lot of aggression underneath his exterior. I can't imagine the couple surviving a relationship long term. Both were too messed up.

I actually got the opposite impression. I thought that he was an extremely sensitive, highly emotional person who literally couldn’t verbalise his thoughts and feelings, and became paralysed by it.

I agree that he sometimes lashed out when he was forced to discuss his feelings (like in the car with his mam), but I thought it was quite clear it was a defensive thing and not aggression or hostility.

Hamachi

take everything wrote: »

Just finished it there.
Overall pretty great.

The end scene was very affecting.
And i don't usually get affected by stuff like this.

Agreed. I found the entire final episode pretty moving, in particular the closing scene as you say. It’s not my usual genre either, but it’s been on my mind since I finished it yesterday. I think that’s a testament to the quality of the acting and production.

Foweva Awone

I'm just on the third episode, the debs scenes are making me fierce nostalgic!

take everything

Hamachi wrote: »

Agreed. I found the entire final episode pretty moving, in particular the closing scene as you say. It’s not my usual genre either, but it’s been on my mind since I finished it yesterday. I think that’s a testament to the quality of the acting and production.

What i liked is i wasn't sure how it was going to go

with Connell and New York

. It was just a real sense of love between them the way they agreed what would be best for them. And you felt (well i did anyway) that such a love would endure. The idea of two imperfect people that may well be perfect for each other like the Good Will Hunting line from Robin Williams:

"You're not perfect sport, and let me save you the suspense, this girl you've met she's not perfect either. But the question is whether or not you're perfect for each other."

Ah i dunno, maybe it'll all turn to **** in 6 months

Beechwoodspark

This is box ticking lowest common denominator cliched pretentious mass market crA*p

Had a feeling abramson was heading this way from a few years out

MoonUnit75

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

This is box ticking lowest common denominator cliched pretentious mass market crA*p

Had a feeling abramson was heading this way from a few years out

Yeah I felt the same. The way there is usually one of the characters there to tell you exactly how and what to think about the various events is something I found off-putting. I heard a different director took over half way through? It did seem to improve as it went on even if the storyline seemed to be going round and round trying to take in as many issues as it could.

All that fandango

Just finished it today, great series really enjoyed following their story. Wonder did Marianne dump Peggy as she wasnt to be seen at Mariannes birthday dinner with her gang in the restaurant?

Hamachi

All that fandango wrote: »

Just finished it today, great series really enjoyed following their story. Wonder did Marianne dump Peggy as she wasnt to be seen at Mariannes birthday dinner with her gang in the restaurant?

Yes, pretty much. It’s implied in the TV series, but is more explicit in the book. Only a couple of her friends remain in contact when she moves to Sweden for the Erasmus year. It feeds into the theme of discovering your true friends over time.

This is pretty realistic. Anybody who studies at a university for 4 or 5 years often has a pretty different set of friends when graduating vs. the wider, more superficial social circle in the first year or two.