Normal People [BBC - RTE] - [**SPOILERS**]

interlocked

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Full episodes?

Yes

kowloon

artvanderlay wrote: »

I watch it as a comedy, and I'm enjoying it as a result. It's completely terrible otherwise. It's totally humourless (because, you know, young Irish people never laugh or have fun), and it romantises the Trinity/university experience and the living in **** accommodation experience. I went to Trinity and lived in **** accommodation while there: both experiences were crap, and I can see through a lot of that bollocks now, but this show is like an ad for this experience. :pac: None of the characters are likeable, so I hope they all die in the end!

It does romanticise it a fair chunk, those 'Trinners for winners' types always pissed me off, and some of them leave the place thoroughly indoctrinated. And there is absolutely no humour in it at all. They really pushed the 'intellectual and into the orts' a little far beyond any reality I live in.

Airyfairy12

interlocked wrote: »

Yes

Just found it, thank you

lainey_d_123

kowloon wrote: »

It does romanticise it a fair chunk, those 'Trinners for winners' types always pissed me off, and some of them leave the place thoroughly indoctrinated. And there is absolutely no humour in it at all. They really pushed the 'intellectual and into the orts' a little far beyond any reality I live in.

I thought the character of Jamie was just like some of the people I went to college with, tbh. Utterly humourless, charmless, snobby, arrogant and all around awful. A mixture of insecurity and an inflated sense of self importance from going to some posh southside private school and being spoiled by daddy.

kowloon

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I thought the character of Jamie was just like some of the people I went to college with, tbh. Utterly humourless, charmless, snobby, arrogant and all around awful. A mixture of insecurity and an inflated sense of self importance from going to some posh southside private school and being spoiled by daddy.

I went to one of the 'rugger schools', hated the experience, and there was a fair bit of 'I don't know what course I want to do, but I'll be doing something in Trinners', but there was plenty of in-jokes and immature humour. I can't see how that would be stripped away from an entire social circle.

Strazdas

Muahahaha wrote: »

But are they just fcuk buddies, hasnt he said he loves her a few times in the program?

The sports thing is a bit strange to me when they're portraying him as not feeling he can relate to those around Marianne in college, like he hasnt found his own group of friends which he would on a sports team. Just seems a bit of a plot hole to me, anyone I knew in university who was on the rugby/GAA teams were already top players at school and naturally kept playing in college.

I'd say they are lot more than f buddies. Remember the night of his Debs when he walked out of the event and he was distraught with regret that he hadn't asked Marianne instead. If I remember right, tears were welling up in his eyes even thinking about her.

Airyfairy12

*Spoilers

I just watched all episodes, I dont get the hype tbh, it's good and lots of times I related to both characters in different ways, it's emotional and I could ertainly feel the emotions the characters were feeling, in allot of ways its relatable but so are lots of other television shows and movies. It got very tedious after awhile, more sex, breaking up, getting back together, wanting to be together, hanging out but not being together I can see how it mght appeal to people in their early to mid 20's who may be going through similar circumstances with college, relationships, friends, moving out of home for the first time.

Also am I missing something but made no sense that he is going to do his Masters in New York, isnt he broke and working two jobs just to get by living in Dublin before he got his scholarship, assuming he also got grants to pay his fees, likely since his mam is a low paid cleaner? Unless he got another scholarship fees for college in New york a literally tens if not hundreds of thousands depending on how long his course is.

Hamachi

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I thought the character of Jamie was just like some of the people I went to college with, tbh. Utterly humourless, charmless, snobby, arrogant and all around awful. A mixture of insecurity and an inflated sense of self importance from going to some posh southside private school and being spoiled by daddy.

I found Jamie to be more of two dimensional caricature. It felt like he was inserted as a kind of crude plot device to contrast his obnoxiousness with Connell’s essential ‘goodness’. If I had one criticism of the acting in the show, it would be centered on the actor who played Jamie. I felt he over-egged the pudding too much.

Like yourself, I went to college with a fair amount of D4, south-side types. Certainly, many of them were self-centered, arrogant, and dismissive of less affluent students. However, my experience of them in 1:1 scenarios like project work or sport was that they weren’t too bad individually. A few were even sound. It’s just that when they got together in a group, herd mentality took over.

Totally respect your opinion though. From my standpoint, the Jamie character was too extreme to be authentic.

kowloon

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I can see how it mght appeal to people in their early to mid 20's who may be going through similar circumstances with college, relationships, friends, moving out of home for the first time.

For me, it was a reminder of regrets I have, in my 20s I was all about Band of Brothers. Wouldn't have watched more than half-way into the first episode before changing the channel. (remember channels? )

bitofabind

The "regret" theme seems to be quite strong as a reaction that people are having to the show. It struck a chord with me too, this sense of missed opportunities, that I didn't make the most of my teens / early 20s. I'm not someone who had this big overwhelming heady all-consuming love at that age either, that came a lot later for me, and was held back by many of the mental health issues that come up in the series - anxiety, low self-esteem, past issues that hadn't been dealt with etc.

I recently read an interview with Lenny Abrahamson where he described a similar reaction that he had when he first read the book. I got a bit of comfort from reading it, when you see that the show's own director felt a similar way, and thought it'd be useful for others too:

Rooney's novel has strong autobiographical resonances for Abrahamson. Like the author and her characters, he also studied at Trinity College Dublin. "Sally's academic life was like mine, except mine was a few decades earlier. I was academically good, got the same scholarship exam, lived in rooms at college. But I wasn't as open to life as Connell and Marianne, even though they both have their problems. My time there was very intense internally, and although I did have love affairs, I didn't enter into them fully. So when I look at Connell and Marianne, I think "God the absolute joy of speaking honestly to another person." Reading Normal People filled me with a particular longing, greater than the longing for something one has experienced - it's the longing for something one nearly experienced but didn't quite"

kowloon

Hamachi wrote: »

I found Jamie to be more of two dimensional caricature. It felt like he was inserted as a kind of crude plot device to contrast his obnoxiousness with Connell’s essential ‘goodness’.

This could have been addressed if the run-time hadn't been burned up.
I've yet to meet a person whose behaviour I can't see or think of some explanation for, although I might not be getting it right.
We have overclocked animal brains that get thrown into thousands of years of cultural development and that seems to give rise to all sorts of complicated issues even though we all have really basic urges.

Higgins5473

I don't think the mental health stuff was dealt with properly. He seems to have some fairly minor coming of age things to tease out and looks for help...whereas Marianne seems totally unhinged, serious problems, but there doesn't seem to be even the slightest suggestion that she needs help. Or did I miss some dialogue about this? I was zoning in and out of it.

kowloon

I thought the problem he had was set off by his friend killing himself? Maybe suicide is so common now that is minor coming of age stuff. But yes, her issues seem to have been skipped over and by the end she is somehow happy back in Ireland for some inexplicable reason.

lainey_d_123

Higgins5473 wrote: »

I don't think the mental health stuff was dealt with properly. He seems to have some fairly minor coming of age things to tease out and looks for help...whereas Marianne seems totally unhinged, serious problems, but there doesn't seem to be even the slightest suggestion that she needs help. Or did I miss some dialogue about this? I was zoning in and out of it.

Totally unhinged? What makes you say that? She's not remotely unhinged, IMO. I find her actually more level headed than Connell, at every stage of life.

otnomart

Haven't read the book and only watched - out of curiosity - the two episodes shown yesterday on BBC1.
Afterwards, I did read on Wikipedia the synopsis of the previous episodes, to get some background.

I can not comment on how realistic the setting is, as I did not go to college in those years and in that environment, so no shared background there.

An aspect of the story seems to me already covered by several other books/movies: rich girl and socially awkward boy.
What I have not seen before if how both lead characters fail spectacularly to communicate !

Thought both lead actors were very good.

kowloon

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Totally unhinged? What makes you say that? She's not remotely unhinged, IMO. I find her actually more level headed than Connell, at every stage of life.

She has issues with her family and self-hate, I wouldn't say that qualifies as unhinged. But it all seems magically fixed in the rush to give the show an ending.

Beechwoodspark

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

*Spoilers

I just watched all episodes, I dont get the hype tbh, it's good and lots of times I related to both characters in different ways, it's emotional and I could ertainly feel the emotions the characters were feeling, in allot of ways its relatable but so are lots of other television shows and movies. It got very tedious after awhile, more sex, breaking up, getting back together, wanting to be together, hanging out but not being together I can see how it mght appeal to people in their early to mid 20's who may be going through similar circumstances with college, relationships, friends, moving out of home for the first time.

Also am I missing something but made no sense that he is going to do his Masters in New York, isnt he broke and working two jobs just to get by living in Dublin before he got his scholarship, assuming he also got grants to pay his fees, likely since his mam is a low paid cleaner? Unless he got another scholarship fees for college in New york a literally tens if not hundreds of thousands depending on how long his course is.

Plus 1.

Unfortunately there are loads of plot holes (his old as the hills looks, apparently academically gifted but can hardly finish a sentence with all the mumbling, he owns a car etc and his lifestyle in general even tho he is apparently on the poverty line) in it that diminish the entire thing

PTH2009

How come we never hear anything about

Connells father

Airyfairy12

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Plus 1.

Unfortunately there are loads of plot holes (his old as the hills looks, apparently academically gifted but can hardly finish a sentence with all the mumbling, he owns a car etc and his lifestyle in general even tho he is apparently on the poverty line) in it that diminish the entire thing

Exactly, he's on the poverty line but chooses to live in the most expensive place in the country for college, could have studied anywhere in the west, even his own town has a college, he even travels home every weekend to work a second job.
I thought the whole show romantisied Dublin too much. Even down to the contrasting people in Dublin and Sligo, when he went back home and meets all his old friends, theyre wasters and small towners. Like his friend who killed himself who couldnt move on from their school days or the girl he met on the night out that tried to get off with him. Everyone in Dublin was depicted as the complete opposite, good looking, stylish, refined, interesting, intelligent, wealthy.
If there wasnt so much full frontal nudity and sex in it I dont know if it would be getting as much attention as it is.

take everything

PTH2009 wrote: »

How come we never hear anything about

Connells father

Yeah i found that strange as well. Or even much about Marianne's.

PTH2009

take everything wrote: »

Yeah i found that strange as well. Or even much about Marianne's.

not sure how far youre into the series but

at a family dinner they mention that Mariannes Dad died a few years previous

olestoepoke

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Plus 1.

Unfortunately there are loads of plot holes (his old as the hills looks, apparently academically gifted but can hardly finish a sentence with all the mumbling, he owns a car etc and his lifestyle in general even tho he is apparently on the poverty line) in it that diminish the entire thing

So you're saying someone cannot be academically gifted but have an odd manner and terrible communications skills? Sorry but you are way off there,

lainey_d_123

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Exactly, he's on the poverty line but chooses to live in the most expensive place in the country for college, could have studied anywhere in the west, even his own town has a college, he even travels home every weekend to work a second job.
I thought the whole show romantisied Dublin too much. Even down to the contrasting people in Dublin and Sligo, when he went back home and meets all his old friends, theyre wasters and small towners. Like his friend who killed himself who couldnt move on from their school days or the girl he met on the night out that tried to get off with him. Everyone in Dublin was depicted as the complete opposite, good looking, stylish, refined, interesting, intelligent, wealthy.
If there wasnt so much full frontal nudity and sex in it I dont know if it would be getting as much attention as it is.

I don't think any of this is that weird.

Is he not a 600 points student? Why would such a gifted and promising student go to IT Sligo when they're able for Trinity? Which one is more impressive on a CV, either in Ireland or overseas?

The grant system in Ireland is (or was, not sure what it's like now) very generous. He would have had his fees covered plus money for living expenses, plus part time jobs. The reality is even a 'poor' student in Ireland is a lot better off than most. He also

passed Schols, and got free accommodation and meals for the rest of his time in college

, which meant the money thing became practically a non-issue.

He wasn't meeting typical Dublin people, he was meeting Trinity students, who are by and large as you described. Trinity is a bit of a bubble. I knew loads of people there who had no Irish friends except for posh D4 people. I knew English people there who were only friends with other English people. It's not that unusual to live your entire life between Dublin city centre and Rathmines.

Not unusual either for people who stayed behind in a rural town to be wasters and small towners. I remember going home the summer after first year and nobody I'd known at school had moved on. They were still sitting at the same table in the pub, still talking the same sh1te about the same people. It was almost surreal. I'd met all these new people, had new experiences and a whole new lifestyle and it was like they were frozen in time. We just had nothing to talk about. They weren't interested in my course or my new college friends or the summer job I'd lined up in France, I wasn't interested in hearing how Maeve had hooked up with Conor after she'd been with Declan the week before. I actually found the show to be quite representative of the weird feeling you get when you realise you have nothing in common with your old friends other than being from the same place.

olestoepoke

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I don't think any of this is that weird.

Is he not a 600 points student? Why would such a gifted and promising student go to IT Sligo when they're able for Trinity? Which one is more impressive on a CV, either in Ireland or overseas?

The grant system in Ireland is (or was, not sure what it's like now) very generous. He would have had his fees covered plus money for living expenses, plus part time jobs. The reality is even a 'poor' student in Ireland is a lot better off than most. He also

passed Schols, and got free accommodation and meals for the rest of his time in college

, which meant the money thing became practically a non-issue.

He wasn't meeting typical Dublin people, he was meeting Trinity students, who are by and large as you described. Trinity is a bit of a bubble. I knew loads of people there who had no Irish friends except for posh D4 people. I knew English people there who were only friends with other English people. It's not that unusual to live your entire life between Dublin city centre and Rathmines.

Not unusual either for people who stayed behind in a rural town to be wasters and small towners. I remember going home the summer after first year and nobody I'd known at school had moved on. They were still sitting at the same table in the pub, still talking the same sh1te about the same people. It was almost surreal. I'd met all these new people, had new experiences and a whole new lifestyle and it was like they were frozen in time. We just had nothing to talk about. They weren't interested in my course or my new college friends or the summer job I'd lined up in France, I wasn't interested in hearing how Maeve had hooked up with Conor after she'd been with Declan the week before. I actually found the show to be quite representative of the weird feeling you get when you realise you have nothing in common with your old friends other than being from the same place.

Yeah, I grew up in Dublin (Suburbs) I emigrated to NYC for almost 16 years at the age of 21. When I came back for short holidays and then eventually for good I experienced what you re talking about. Some people who never grew up and were still doing the same things, drinking in the same pubs talking the same ****e. So it doesn't just happen in rural towns.

Beechwoodspark

olestoepoke wrote: »

So you're saying someone cannot be academically gifted but have an odd manner and terrible communications skills? Sorry but you are way off there,

It doesn’t add up is all I’m saying. It’s just another thing to add to the list of details that don’t ring true or have that real authenticity you want when you invest hours into a novel/tv series

Beechwoodspark

Hamachi wrote: »

I found Jamie to be more of two dimensional caricature. It felt like he was inserted as a kind of crude plot device to contrast his obnoxiousness with Connell’s essential ‘goodness’. If I had one criticism of the acting in the show, it would be centered on the actor who played Jamie. I felt he over-egged the pudding too much.

Like yourself, I went to college with a fair amount of D4, south-side types. Certainly, many of them were self-centered, arrogant, and dismissive of less affluent students. However, my experience of them in 1:1 scenarios like project work or sport was that they weren’t too bad individually. A few were even sound. It’s just that when they got together in a group, herd mentality took over.

Totally respect your opinion though. From my standpoint, the Jamie character was too extreme to be authentic.

Agree with you. Lazy writing on the novelists part and doubly lazy by the script writers/producers

If I was to use one word for Jamie it would be stereotype. Boring cliched cookie cutter type of stereotype character.

As you say it’s almost as if she went to an extreme with Jamie so as to show Connell up in a better light in contrast - even though in reality all he was doing was mumbling and looking vaguely into the distance. Which in itself is a stereotype of a different hue - strong silent type. Odd

olestoepoke

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It doesn’t add up is all I’m saying. It’s just another thing to add to the list of details that don’t ring true or have that real authenticity you want when you invest hours into a novel/tv series

What doesn't add up? That a guy could get 600 points in the LC, be top of his class in Trinity. Incredibly smart but mumble and have limited communication skills. Of course there are people like that, so what's the problem having a character like that? No problem at all.

Beechwoodspark

olestoepoke wrote: »

What doesn't add up? That a guy could get 600 points in the LC, be top of his class in Trinity. Incredibly smart but mumble and have limited communication skills. Of course there are people like that, so what's the problem having a character like that? No problem at all.

Not in my experience no. Connell doesn’t have that ring of truth to him as a character.

He’s afraid of his own shadow most of the time. Can barely string a sentence together.

He is just not believable as a character

We will agree to disagree

olestoepoke

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Not in my experience no. Connell doesn’t have that ring of truth to him as a character.

He’s afraid of his own shadow most of the time. Can barely string a sentence together.

He is just not believable as a character

We will agree to disagree

That hits the nail on the head. Not in your experience. So because you have never personally met someone like that, they don't exist and are not a suitable character for a tv show? I knew a couple of people like this when I went to university. Further, there are examples throughout history for academically brilliant people who were odd and terrible communicators.

Beechwoodspark

olestoepoke wrote: »

That hits the nail on the head. Not in your experience. So because you have never personally met someone like that, they don't exist and are not a suitable character for a tv show?

I’m not interested in a back and forth but I’ve talked to multiple ppl about this show and most have said it’s rubbish - I ask why? Give it a chance?

The answer usually revolves around how unbelievable, unrelateable, fake, cliched, stereotyped, the show is. Others mention all the plot holes - “couldn’t be bothered with it” a recent reaction for example.

Sorry now I don’t mean to be annoying ppl but that was the general view

If it’s any consolation my niece aged 17 loved it.