Normal People [BBC - RTE] - [**SPOILERS**]

olestoepoke

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

So is anywhere, really. Money shelters you from a lot of things. Before covid, I was tutoring a girl who lives in an enormous townhouse in Highgate (posh bit of north London). She was always saying she couldn't understand why people didn't like London, but her reality was completely different to most people's. Lovely big house with her own bathroom and walk-in wardrobe, massive garden with a dedicated bbq area/fire pit, went to a lovely little private girls school with endless opportunities to study any subject, along with excellent music and art facilities. I did a week of intensive live-in language tutoring with her during her school holidays before I started my full time job, and it was like living in a different world. Get up, put on Sweaty Betty yoga clothes, grab a fancy coffee and an expensive muffin, walk down a gorgeous tree lined street to the fancy gym for an hour yoga class, come home and ask the housekeeper to make eggs and a fresh juice for brunch, private language tuition with me and private maths tuition with another girl, order in pizzas for everyone for dinner without even looking at the price, friends over in the evening for expensive wine before heading off to a house party in someone else's north London mansion. She was a lovely girl but just had no concept of how enormously privileged she was. And I had my eyes really opened to how easy life is when you have money. There's a whole set like that in Trinity as well, living in a massive bubble, I just didn't mix with them because we had nothing in common, but Marianne would definitely be that kind of person.

I remember meeting a posh English girl in 4th year in Trinity who had never been on a Dublin bus, or been anywhere outside Dublin 1/2/4/6 except to go to the airport!

This is very true. I lived in New York City, north Bronx for over 15 years. Like many of the Irish I worked at construction. I made my way to Manhattan most days via the subway and worked in unbearable heat and cold then made my way back everyday. People from home would ask me what was Manhattan like and that it must be wonderful. I hated the sight of the place and would never go near it in my spare time. People living in Manhattan who are well off live in a bubble and can take advantage of the theatres and restaurants etc but for millions its out of reach and their attitude toward it are different.

AndrewJRenko

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

It really made me want to live in Dublin, they romantisised Dublin so much. Id imagine it's a totally different city for people who can comfortably afford to live there. Nice house or apartment close to the city or nice spots like Smithsfeild, fancy house parties with friends that have pools and big gardens, drinking wine and having dinner parties, nice clothes.. The reality for allot of students and working professionals in a dinjy box room on the outskirts with daily hour long journeys just to get to work or college and home again. They also left out the homeless people all over the streets and the drug addicts on every corner.

In fairness, it showed the contrast between his life in Dublin sharing a room, working two jobs, having to leave when his job cut his hours, and her privileged life.

marieholmfan

marieholmfan wrote: »

sounds like it is very popular among --- Normal People

Ok Horatio

kowloon

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

...She was always saying she couldn't understand why people didn't like London, but her reality was completely different to most people's...

Reminds me of a time in secondary school I went to a friend's house in a nice part of Dublin and got lost. Got sent in the right direction by a cleaner, maid or whatever they're called. He wasn't my only really well off friend, the school uniforms hid the wealth a little.

MisterAnarchy

Strazdas wrote: »

RTE have revealed that Tuesday's episode had a 40% audience share amongst over 55s. This explodes the idea that it is some sort of teen centred drama aimed at a young audience.

It tells us that anyone of any age can relate to Normal People. You don't have to be a teenager to identify with Connell and Marianne.

I was talking to my uncle today ,who is 82 and he says to me "Are you watching Normal People" :eek:
Gas man, he is watching at RTE pace .

Water John

A friend told me one time about his 85 year old grandfather in the local pub. Someone asked, when does a man lose interest in women? Promptly he replied, 'you'll have ask an older man than me'.
Hope you uncles enjoys it.

Christ Jamie has a puss i could punch all day long

Muahahaha

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Honestly again I’m amazed at how triggered/upset ppl get when someone gives their opinion on this show

I'm just amazed that you hate this show yet you're the third highest poster on this thread. Sad behaviour to hang around a thread on a show you dont like. Lots of shows I dont like but I dont hang around their threads for weeks on end saying it over and over again.

Higgins5473

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm just amazed that you hate this show yet you're the third highest poster on this thread. Sad behaviour to hang around a thread on a show you dont like. Lots of shows I dont like but I dont hang around their threads for weeks on end saying it over and over again.

The show is in your ear and face, no matter whatever piece of media you turn on. It’s so in your face that is irritating people, which provokes a response to the big love in for the show. What do you expect from this thread about possibly the biggest series/film that has been based in Ireland. That every poster should just be gushing in awe at what a masterpiece it is? Or perhaps balanced debate on why people like/dislike it? Similar debates on this forum about Love Hate when it finished up...I don’t understand those that are so defensive about the programme against those who think it’s sh*t. It’s film, art, so it’s subjective. Unless this is a ‘Normal People love in appreciation’ thread only, maybe lay off the go elsewhere if you didn’t like it stuff. A lot of the criticism here is very valid.

yerwanthere123

Tried to spread the show out as much as possible but could only last five days. It really blew me away. Even before I read this thread, or anywhere else about it, the thing that struck me most was how much it hit home. I think a lot of the show's popularity is based on how relatable it is, the school/college scenes particularly ring true. In my school popularity was very much defined by GAA, all the cool/popular people played it and the one's that didn't were overlooked. I wasn't treated as badly by my classmates as Marianne was but I certainly knew what it was like to be on the outside looking in.

The college scene's in particular evoked so many conflicting feeling's in me. I went to college in 2010 with the expectation that it would be like Marianne's; a shy self-conscious person would bloom and finally start to enjoy life. What I actually got was Connell's; an awkward, anxiety filled time that really didn't pan out as I'd hoped. I was almost nodding in agreement when he turned up at the house party not knowing anyone and feeling out of place, I think we've all been there. Like others on the thread have alluded to, it made me rethink the past and how things that were a big deal at the time were so inconsequential in hindsight. It summoned something of a nostalgic sadness in me, and there's very, very few tv shows/films that have had such an effect.

The two leads were phenomenal, incredible given their relatively limited acting chops so far. Daisy Edgar-Jones Irish accent is the best I've ever heard by a non-Irish actress, it was so believable. Paul Mescal's scene with the therapist was powerhouse stuff, hard to believe that most of his career thus far has been spent doing theatre work.

Overall I thought this show was terrific. It may not have given us exactly what we wanted in the end, but to do otherwise would've cheapened it somewhat. I hope Edgar-Jones and Mescal get all the plaudits they deserve for this, and it serves as a launching pad to even bigger and better things. Terrific show.

Wrongway1985

I thought it was a terrific piece of work too, watched it at the start of the month it was highly emotive and had me thinking for a number of days after the concluding episode.

The majority of the characters resembled people from various periods of my own life, a lot of scenarios similar too.

Very engaging personally didn't find it a slow burn from the off like many felt before getting into it.

Was actually astounded to see the author of the novel was not far removed from those years herself when she wrote it.

As a 35 year old male I do also think it's a shame such a thing wasn't around for my teenage self but at the same time pleased the like is something future generations can indeed take for granted.

Had a right snigger at Connell having a can days out from the leaving cert exams as that was defo me too, obviously not recommending it but I've seen it mentioned certain people can't morally entertain that, even to the point where they are saying it's unrealistic!

The depiction of Maryannes relationship with her family was moving, the obvious part of that has been discussed at length but I really liked the parts like the

Christmas dinner scene Maryanne is the most comfortable with life she's been up to that point,progressing academically and fitting in socially in Dublin.

There is then genuine love and interest for her from the relatives at the table, this of course riled the brother afterwards.

I got the sense though later on when Maryanne opts for that Christmas at Connells instead and her mother snobs them off on the street, that was it really for the mother the jig was up she had no front now that things were cosy between her and her Trinity educated daughter.

The two leads definitely deserve their praise, pity the current situation has no doubt robbed them of some exciting experiences.

I wonder if they are sick of online video interviews at this stage :pac:

I wasn't surprised to hear the bedroom scene in one of the final episodes took 2 days and around 10 rocket lollies each to shoot, that was simply exceptional perhaps my favourite in the whole series.

My love for the show aside, it's uniquely Irish in a lot of ways even with the BBC polish, it's no real shock it took off in the UK not to the degree it has for sure but other territories, mental!

I expected more of the type that just couldn't get it (which is fair enough) like the article posted here that wasn't very knowledgeable reviewer couldn't compare it to even the slightest thought provoking drama but instead to a musical, a sci-fi about vampires and it's fan fiction spin-off no less.

I can see the demand for follow up seasons be it attachment to the characters or the main actors themselves, the distributors naturally enough would be keen but really feel it should be left as is.

It was touted about the idea of perhaps revisiting them in 10 years time or something that sounds more conceivable than an immediate follow on.

Will keep an eye out for the adaptation of the other Sally Rooney book even though I hear it's probably not as compelling, with similar people like Abrahamson involved who knows they could just make it work.

Shifty Shellshock

It's for posh folk who love trending topics in the media.

Robsweezie

this will be one for the end of year ''best of 2020'' lists, a real cultural moment for us. delighted for its success internationally, fond of lenny abrahamson and his previous work. at first i dismissed it as typical boy meets girl will - they - won't - they ****e and couldnt really comprehend the fuss about it, believing people were only latching onto it because its irish and relatable and sure isnt paul mescal a beaut , regardless of actual quality.

but thats part of its charm and quality. i love connells depiction as the awkward youngella never knowing what to say and articulating his feelings. well cast and produced.

very nuanced with good subject matter, it taps into a lot.

i particularly love the intrusive close up facial shots that always nail their true feelings despite characters attempts to convey otherwise. just like in reality you're told something you dont wanna hear and you try the 'ah sure its grand'' to save face when you're dying inside.

im at rte pace, not finished yet. its kept my interest.

Beechwoodspark

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm just amazed that you hate this show yet you're the third highest poster on this thread. Sad behaviour to hang around a thread on a show you dont like. Lots of shows I dont like but I dont hang around their threads for weeks on end saying it over and over again.

Sorry now but with respect - dissenting opinions on this show are widespread.

In my job I am in phone contact with my customers and clients daily and when talking this show comes up huge amounts of ppl have said this is overhyped overrated pretentious mass market “mills and boon” for a new generation.

The sex scenes were there to get attention for the show in the media. And fair play it worked.

I’m sorry if that triggers ppl but I have to say other than my niece aged 17 ppl just don’t like this show - it’s seen as home and away on the wild Atlantic way.

Just observationally I have a cousin in her early 20s - she says ppl of her age group laugh at the show for how unrealistic it is

S.M.B.

Finally finished this so thought safe to venture in here, absolutely loved it. Dragged the viewing out over a few weeks even though I could easily have binged on it over a weekend.

Not sure if I'm up for engaging in what appears to be a passionate it's great / it's sh!te forwards and backwards based on the previous post.

SusieBlue

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’m sorry if that triggers ppl but I have to say other than my niece aged 17 ppl just don’t like this show - it’s seen as home and away on the wild Atlantic way.

That’s just not true and an intentional misrepresentation of facts. You don’t like it, people you know don’t like it, fair enough.
However, it is the most successful and popular show on the BBC iplayer of all time, based on a best selling book that sold millions of copies. The rights have been snapped up by over 20 countries all over the world.

Rotten Tomatoes, a website widely accepted to be the be the most valued review website on the whole internet scores it at 94% from a general audience and 89% from professional media critics - that’s hardly a score to be sneezing at.
It’s a renowned hit with the public & respected critics in the industry. It’s also receiving high praise from a range of celebrities, many of whom would know very little about life in rural Ireland.
All of this would indicate to me that people do in fact like the story.

You are literally the only person I’ve seen anywhere on the internet or in real life referring to it ‘home and away on the wild Atlantic way’... First of all, they spend feck all time in nature, let alone on the wild Atlantic way.
The majority of the scenes are set in inner city Dublin & Connell’s bedroom, for goodness sake.
And I can only assume you’ve never actually seen Home & Away because it’s is as fluffy as the soaps come,
with very little in common with Normal People that I can see.

You can dislike it but your continued insistence that it’s crap and unpopular is just fake news.

I have no interest in sport and would find watching a soccer match to be my worst nightmare, but you won’t find me over in the soccer forum pontificating about how rubbish I think it is.
You aren’t even offering any critique, just endless posts calling it rubbish and referring to it as home and away on the wild Atlantic way.
We get it, you don’t like it, your opinion isn’t going to change anyone’s minds here.
Live and let live.

yerwanthere123

S.M.B. wrote: »

Finally finished this so thought safe to venture in here, absolutely loved it. Dragged the viewing out over a few weeks even though I could easily have binged on it over a weekend.

Not sure if I'm up for engaging in what appears to be a passionate it's great / it's sh!te forwards and backwards based on the previous post.

Probably the best thing really. It's mainly coming from one source anyway, someone who apparently hates the show yet is the third highest poster on the thread, and seems to have based most of his opinions on that of his 17 year old niece and 22 year old cousin

olestoepoke

SusieBlue wrote: »

That’s just not true and an intentional misrepresentation of facts. You don’t like it, people you know don’t like it, fair enough.
However, it is the most successful and popular show on the BBC iplayer of all time, based on a best selling book that sold millions of copies. The rights have been snapped up by over 20 countries all over the world.

Rotten Tomatoes, a website widely accepted to be the be the most valued review website on the whole internet scores it at 94% from a general audience and 89% from professional media critics - that’s hardly a score to be sneezing at.
It’s a renowned hit with the public & respected critics in the industry. It’s also receiving high praise from a range of celebrities, many of whom would know very little about life in rural Ireland.
All of this would indicate to me that people do in fact like the story.

You are literally the only person I’ve seen anywhere on the internet or in real life referring to it ‘home and away on the wild Atlantic way’... First of all, they spend feck all time in nature, let alone on the wild Atlantic way.
The majority of the scenes are set in inner city Dublin & Connell’s bedroom, for goodness sake.
And I can only assume you’ve never actually seen Home & Away because it’s is as fluffy as the soaps come,
with very little in common with Normal People that I can see.

You can dislike it but your continued insistence that it’s crap and unpopular is just fake news.

I have no interest in sport and would find watching a soccer match to be my worst nightmare, but you won’t find me over in the soccer forum pontificating about how rubbish I think it is.
You aren’t even offering any critique, just endless posts calling it rubbish and referring to it as home and away on the wild Atlantic way.
We get it, you don’t like it, your opinion isn’t going to change anyone’s minds here.
Live and let live.

Every one of his posts mentions an alleged 17 year old Niece for effect. He's a troll who is best ignored.

Beechwoodspark

Again I’m amazed - if someone even mentions that there are dissenting views on this show they are labeled all sorts of names. I would suggest the fans of this show get out and talk to ppl and see what the reaction is!

And I’ll tell my niece she is now allegedly my niece - god sake I’ve seen it all now

Hamachi

Before launching into any criticism, I just want to re-state that I thoroughly enjoyed the show and am now on my second viewing. I thought the episodic nature worked really well and mirrored the pacing of the book.

However, the one episode that didn’t really grab me was #9, broadcast on BBC tonight. This episode follows Marianne on her Erasmus year in Sweden. In my view (and it’s just my opinion), this was the weakest part of the entire narrative.

I didn’t enjoy this plot line in either the book or the TV series. I understand that it examines the impact of low self esteem and feelings of worthlessness, particularly when one is distanced from the support of close friends or family. However, the entire relationship with Lukas felt a little contrived and just too extreme. Even at a superficial level, I struggled with the casting of Lukas, who looks absolutely nothing like how he is described in the book.

Am I alone in seeing this episode as a slightly weaker installment?

SusieBlue

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Again I’m amazed - if someone even mentions that there are dissenting views on this show they are labeled all sorts of names. I would suggest the fans of this show get out and talk to ppl and see what the reaction is!

And I’ll tell my niece she is now allegedly my niece - god sake I’ve seen it all now

You aren’t giving dissenting views, you are repeating the same sound bites ad nauseam trying to get a rise out of people that do like it. That’s what your doing.

You seem to think your bubble of friends & family disliking this represents the public reaction as a whole, and it doesn’t.
I suggest you have a look on the internet, review websites and pretty much any social media platform and see what the reaction is. It’s mostly very positive.
So maybe just accept that your opinion is in the minority instead of implying everyone else is wrong just cause your niece and your friends happen to not like it.

yerwanthere123

Hamachi wrote: »

Before launching into any criticism, I just want to re-state that I thoroughly enjoyed the show and am now on my second viewing. I thought the episodic nature worked really well and mirrored the pacing of the book.

However, the one episode that didn’t really grab me was #9, broadcast on BBC tonight. This episode follows Marianne on her Erasmus year in Sweden. In my view (and it’s just my opinion), this was the weakest part of the entire narrative.

I didn’t enjoy this plot line in either the book or the TV series. I understand that it examines the impact of low self esteem and feelings of worthlessness, particularly when one is distanced from the support of close friends or family. However, the entire relationship with Lukas felt a little contrived and just too extreme. Even at a superficial level, I struggled with casting of Lukas, who looks absolutely nothing like how he described in the book.

Am I alone in seeing this episode as a slightly weaker installment?

I quite liked the Sweden one, even if I was a little taken aback with how dark it was becoming. The only episode I can say I wasn't fond of was when

Marianne asks Connell to hit her

. It just felt a bit too weird. Only other niggle I had was the way in which Marianne's family were presented as heartless monsters, I would've liked this to have been fleshed out a bit more.

Hamachi

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Only other niggle I had was the way in which Marianne's family were presented as heartless monsters, I would've liked this to have been fleshed out a bit more.

Totally agree on this. If Sally Rooney ever writes a sequel or they decide to re-visit the characters in 10 years, I’d like to see the family dynamics explored.

Marianne’s brother is a despicable character in both the book and the TV series. However, she stands up to him more in the book, showing open contempt for him in several passages. The mother’s behavior towards her is just totally inexplicable though.

Treppen

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Again I’m amazed - if someone even mentions that there are dissenting views on this show they are labeled all sorts of names. I would suggest the fans of this show get out and talk to ppl and see what the reaction is!

And I’ll tell my niece she is now allegedly my niece - god sake I’ve seen it all now

Oh please don't.

Sardonicat

Hamachi wrote: »

Totally agree on this. If Sally Rooney ever writes a sequel or they decide to re-visit the characters in 10 years, I’d like to see the family dynamics explored.

Marianne’s brother is a despicable character in both the book and the TV series. However, she stands up to him more in the book, showing open contempt for him in several passages. The mother’s behavior towards her is just totally inexplicable though.

It's not. Marieanne's mother does not love her. She loves her son and is abusing Marieanne through open rejection and standing by when her son abuses and assaults her. No fleshing out is required. Some people are just monsters and there is no 'why'. For people who have no experience of this kind of abuse it seems inexplicable and unbelievable. But it's real and far common than people realise.

For me this was the most vivid and powerful part of the show - the effect of a lifetime of familial emotional abuse and rejection on a person but I felt portraying it as a portal to BDSM was a bit clichéd. Far more believable was Marieanne's acceptance of Connell's need to keep their relationship secret. She didn't even question it at first. So convinced by her own innate unlovableness it seemed natural to her he would feel shame for wanting to be with her.

Tork

I wonder how much domestic abuse went on in Marianne's home? Her brother certainly seemed to have picked up the mantle of abusive male in that house. I wonder was their mother afraid of him?

It was admirable that Connell didn't beat the living daylights out of Alan after he assaulted Marianne. At the time I was hoping he'd put him through the wall but I'm glad now that he didn't. It made him an even better person for not using his fists.

Hamachi

Sardonicat wrote: »

It's not. Marieanne's mother does not love her. She loves her son and is abusing Marieanne through open rejection and standing by when her son abuses and assaults her. No fleshing out is required. Some people are just monsters and there is no 'why'. For people who have no experience of this kind of abuse it seems inexplicable and unbelievable. But it's real and far common than people realise.

For me this was the most vivid and powerful part of the show - the effect of a lifetime of familial emotional abuse and rejection on a person...

With respect, this is not something that is self-evident to most people who view the show. Thankfully, the majority of people grow up in relatively loving environments and have no direct experience of familial abuse.

It’s also not clear that her mother was always a pathological monster. The mother appears to have a relatively warm relationship with her sister. She also willingly finances Marianne’s education, including an expensive Erasmus year in Sweden. The Italian holiday villa is also made available to Marianne and her friends. This doesn’t align with the statement that she is inherently evil.

Sardonicat

Hamachi wrote: »

With respect, this is not something that is self-evident to most people who view the show. Thankfully, the majority of people grow up in relatively loving environments and have no direct experience of familial abuse.

It’s also not clear that her mother was always a pathological monster. The mother appears to have a relatively warm relationship with her sister. She also willingly finances Marianne’s education, including an expensive Erasmus year in Sweden. The Italian holiday villa is also made available to Marianne and her friends. This doesn’t align with the statement that she is inherently evil.

None of those things preclude a person from being an abusive monster to the chosen scapegoat. In fact, it's pretty common for reasons of maintaining control, gaslighting the victim and maintaining outward appearance.

If you missed the fact that Marianne's mother is an abusier you didn't understand the show at all.

yerwanthere123

Hamachi wrote: »

Totally agree on this. If Sally Rooney ever writes a sequel or they decide to re-visit the characters in 10 years, I’d like to see the family dynamics explored.

Marianne’s brother is a despicable character in both the book and the TV series. However, she stands up to him more in the book, showing open contempt for him in several passages. The mother’s behavior towards her is just totally inexplicable though.

What I took from the Mother's behaviour initially is that she was so worn down from her own family dynamics that she simply didn't know how to respond to or help Marianne. She's also likely afraid of the son, we know that there'd been violence in the household previously and perhaps she can see her son turning into the husband she was once afraid of herself. I think it's clear that the mother knows that the way the brother treats Marianne is wrong, hence the camera flashes to her worried expressions several times. To me it seems the mother is abusive more so by her own inaction than anything else.

What seemed a little off to me is when the mother later blanks Marianne in town. That seemed needlessly cruel, and seemed designed more so to push the "heartless monster" thing I mentioned earlier. Marianne's mother does seem to love her daughter in her own way, hence the disappointment when she wasn't coming home for Christmas, so this is why it seemed a little OTT for me.

Sardonicat wrote: »

It's not. Marieanne's mother does not love her. She loves her son and is abusing Marieanne through open rejection and standing by when her son abuses and assaults her. No fleshing out is required. Some people are just monsters and there is no 'why'. For people who have no experience of this kind of abuse it seems inexplicable and unbelievable. But it's real and far common than people realise.

For me this was the most vivid and powerful part of the show - the effect of a lifetime of familial emotional abuse and rejection on a person but I felt portraying it as a portal to BDSM was a bit clichéd. Far more believable was Marieanne's acceptance of Connell's need to keep their relationship secret. She didn't even question it at first. So convinced by her own innate unlovableness it seemed natural to her he would feel shame for wanting to be with her.

Speaking even as a victim of horrific childhood abuse from my own mother, I find it a little difficult to believe that some people just are monsters with no explanation. My mother was a million times worse than Marianne's, but she also had very clear narcissistic/psychiatric issues. She still knew right from wrong, but there was still a root cause of the behaviour. I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a lot more background to what we were presented with on the show.

As I mentioned above I think Marianne's mother, whilst still abusive, does love her daughter deep down. She is clearly concerned when her brother is so aggressive with her but seems to afraid to step in, perhaps akin to what she herself experiences years previously with her husband. The brother, however, isn't dissected even in the slightest. Yes, it's hinted at that he's envious of Marianne's new life in Dublin whilst he was stuck in Sligo, but there's quite obviously more to it than this, which we weren't presented with.

Better Than Christ

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

And I’ll tell my niece she is now allegedly my niece - god sake I’ve seen it all now

You should definitely tell your imaginary niece that. And while you're at it, tell your 22-year-old cousin, if she exists, that you've been regaling strangers on the internet with imaginary conversations that you've definitely had with her to back up your shit interpretation of a television programme that you don't get. You should tell your 'customers' and 'clients' the same thing, if they exist, which they don't.