Normal People [BBC - RTE] - [**SPOILERS**]

Hamachi

Strazdas wrote: »

Connell is no saint himself though. The way he treated Helen last night was selfish and a bit callous - completely indifferent to the fact he was making his girlfriend feel very insecure. He has form for this of course, some of his treatment of Marianne has been very off since day one.

For sure. Connell definitely treated Helen very badly. The book provides more insight into her character. She has a great relationship with her immediate and extended family; she also has a wide circle of friends and is sporty.

She comes across as being the most well adjusted, ‘normal’ person amongst the entire cast of characters. She tries to be friendly to Marianne, but is rebuffed. The animosity between the two women is fleshed out in more detail in the book.

Helen is definitely conventional wife material. A girl anybody would be happy to bring home to meet their parents. However, sometimes in life you meet that imperfect person, with whom you have that profound connection. This will always trump the ‘good on paper’ relationship.

Esse85

Connell reminds me of the Big Brother winner Greg O'Shea.

Fr D Maugire

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I have conversed with and asked many ppl and I am simply reporting back what ppl have to told me. Very few are fans of the show - for more info have a read of my previous posts, I won’t go into it again.

You know what, I have not watched any of this show nor am I likely to ever watch it, as it is not my type of programme. But I can at least recognise it is a very popular series. The fact that the book has gone to the top of the British Bestsellers list two years after its release would suggest it is in fact incredibly popular. Huge demand on BBC app, high ratings on Rotten Tomatos and IMDB based on 12,000 reviews in a month. All indicators of popularity.

Why you are so desperately trying to prove it isn't is beyone me. Quite sad really. I could say I spoke to 100 people and claim they all loved it. There are enough stats available to illustrate this is a popular programme, regardless of what you claim.

Purple Mountain

Esse85 wrote: »

Connell reminds me of the Big Brother winner Greg O'Shea.

That Was Love Island

lainey_d_123

Strazdas wrote: »

Then again, the fact that Lukas is a manipulative creep undoes the 'token' argument somewhat. If they were going the 'PC' route, they would have had him as a good guy who rescues her......instead he is just unlikable.

Is he? From what I understood, Marianne got him into the BDSM stuff and he went along with it. I haven't read the book but the TV show didn't show him being particularly manipulative. I thought it was part of the dynamic she'd wanted to create?

Strazdas wrote: »

I think she veers between damaged Marianne and normal Marianne and she's nearest to her normal self whenever she's with him.

Connell is no saint himself though. The way he treated Helen last night was selfish and a bit callous - completely indifferent to the fact he was making his girlfriend feel very insecure. He has form for this of course, some of his treatment of Marianne has been very off since day one.

Yeah - he treated her horribly. Fantastic acting from Aoife Hinds there also - you could really feel the hurt and confusion during the argument about him not introducing her to anyone. He took her up to Sligo where she knew nobody and then ignored her, didn't introduce her to his friends, had a long hug with Marianne and was basically callous and disrespectful the entire time, and then gaslighted her and guilt tripped her about how 'it was a funeral and she shouldn't have expected to have a good time'. You can see how torn she is there - she loves him but she knows he's treating her badly and she can't stay.

yerwanthere123

Tork wrote: »

I thought the same about Sweden. It didn't add a lot to the story and felt a bit like padding. I thought it was odd at the time that there was this big deal made out of him taking her photos, and then that was it. I was waiting to find out that they'd made it past the four walls of Lukas's studio and out into the wild. I think somebody mentioned here that the photos leak out in the book. If that is the case, I wonder why didn't they include that?

The actor who played Lukas was fine but I thought the casting of an African guy was jarring. The program makers seem to have been at pains to bring "diversity" into it at every opportunity. So we have an African guy instead of a Swede in this episode, Connell's Asian girlfriend (yes, I know the actress's father is Ciaran Hinds), a black English actress as the counsellor Connell goes to see etc. I'm not criticising any of the actors in question but it smacks of "We'd better put some other ethnicities into this in case we're accused of being too white"

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's very WOKE ,albeit quite subtle

Hamachi wrote: »

It’s jarring, out-of-context, and tokenistic.

I read an interview with Lenny Abrahamson. The mantra on set was ‘the book is the bible’. Yet they couldn’t find one Swedish actor who remotely physically resembles how Lukas is described in the book?

This trend of shoe-horning in diversity into every narrative is quite annoying frankly.

Jesus why does this kind of shite manage to find it's way into virtually every thread on Boards. All the people mentioned are secondary characters who appear in a handful of scenes. 95% of the characters in the show are White Irish. Maybe, just maybe, the therapist/Lukas/Aoife Hinds were the best people who auditioned for the roles?

olestoepoke

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

You know what, I have not watched any of this show nor am I likely to ever watch it, as it is not my type of programme. But I can at least recognise it is a very popular series. The fact that the book has gone to the top of the British Bestsellers list two years after its release would suggest it is in fact incredibly popular. Huge demand on BBC app, high ratings on Rotten Tomatos and IMDB based on 12,000 reviews in a month. All indicators of popularity.

Why you are so desperately trying to prove it isn't is beyone me. Quite sad really. I could say I spoke to 100 people and claim they all loved it. There are enough stats available to illustrate this is a popular programme, regardless of what you claim.

Any mention of his 17 year old niece? I cannot wait to hear his response to this great post.

D_D

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I have conversed with and asked many ppl and I am simply reporting back what ppl have to told me. Very few are fans of the show - for more info have a read of my previous posts, I won’t go into it again.

How the Hell can you come to that conclusion? "Very few are fans of the show", this is just absolute nonsense and trolling of the highest degree... Is your phone line to your 17 old niece and the others your version of a national poll?

olestoepoke

D_D wrote: »

How the Hell can you come to that conclusion? "Very few are fans of the show", this is just absolute nonsense and trolling of the highest degree... Is your phone line to your 17 old niece and the others your version of a national poll?

Either a total attention seeking troll or completely deluded.

Mr E

Mod: @BeechwoodSpark - a few reported posts about you this morning. We get it - you don't like the show. Maybe spend more time on threads for shows that you do like? You're just adding noise to this thread and pissing everyone off, sorry.

Thargor

olestoepoke wrote: »

Any mention of his 17 year old niece? I cannot wait to hear his response to this great post.

No its been 48 hours so now its time for him to post his totally-not-moronic "Home and Away on the Wild Atlantic Way" quip again for the seventh time that he totally "heard" and didnt come up with himself.

Sardonicat

I just want to say, 'cos I don't think anyone has said it yet, that Niall is the soundest character in the show. Really lovely, laid back, fella and really good for Connell. Would like to have seen more of him.

Strazdas

Hamachi wrote: »

For sure. Connell definitely treated Helen very badly. The book provides more insight into her character. She has a great relationship with her immediate and extended family; she also has a wide circle of friends and is sporty.

She comes across as being the most well adjusted, ‘normal’ person amongst the entire cast of characters. She tries to be friendly to Marianne, but is rebuffed. The animosity between the two women is fleshed out in more detail in the book.

Helen is definitely conventional wife material. A girl anybody would be happy to bring home to meet their parents. However, sometimes in life you meet that imperfect person, with whom you have that profound connection. This will always trump the ‘good on paper’ relationship.

Yes, good point. Helen is well adjusted whilst Connell and Marianne are both a bit flaky and damaged. It's probably for this reason he is more attracted to the topsy turvy relationship with Marianne and is somewhat indifferent to Helen.....it's almost as if he is bored by her.

Strazdas

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yeah - he treated her horribly. Fantastic acting from Aoife Hinds there also - you could really feel the hurt and confusion during the argument about him not introducing her to anyone. He took her up to Sligo where she knew nobody and then ignored her, didn't introduce her to his friends, had a long hug with Marianne and was basically callous and disrespectful the entire time, and then gaslighted her and guilt tripped her about how 'it was a funeral and she shouldn't have expected to have a good time'. You can see how torn she is there - she loves him but she knows he's treating her badly and she can't stay.

The scene where Connell's friend comes over to join them at the funeral and Connell doesn't even introduce Helen to him was excruciating. Eventually the friend has to ask "Who's this? Is this your girlfriend?".

AndrewJRenko

Hamachi wrote: »

It’s jarring, out-of-context, and tokenistic.

I read an interview with Lenny Abrahamson. The mantra on set was ‘the book is the bible’. Yet they couldn’t find one Swedish actor who remotely physically resembles how Lukas is described in the book?

This trend of shoe-horning in diversity into every narrative is quite annoying frankly.

So you're saying that the Swedish acting business has a long way to go on diversity? Good point, in fairness.

Bredabe

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Is he? From what I understood, Marianne got him into the BDSM stuff and he went along with it. I haven't read the book but the TV show didn't show him being particularly manipulative. I thought it was part of the dynamic she'd wanted to create?



Yeah - he treated her horribly. Fantastic acting from Aoife Hinds there also - you could really feel the hurt and confusion during the argument about him not introducing her to anyone. He took her up to Sligo where she knew nobody and then ignored her, didn't introduce her to his friends, had a long hug with Marianne and was basically callous and disrespectful the entire time, and then gaslighted her and guilt tripped her about how 'it was a funeral and she shouldn't have expected to have a good time'. You can see how torn she is there - she loves him but she knows he's treating her badly and she can't stay.

I've seen this in depressed people, its hard on the person who is not depressed and its why so many relationships dont survive the illness.

I dont have any stats, but I imagine it contributes to suicides. Going on that basis, I wasnt one bit shocked at any of his behaviour after that.

I am just slightly surprised his mum didnt talk to him then or once he was back in uni, I wonder if she felt that Marianne would be the most healing person for him to talk to about it?

olestoepoke

Strazdas wrote: »

The scene where Connell's friend comes over to join them at the funeral and Connell doesn't even introduce Helen to him was excruciating. Eventually the friend has to ask "Who's this? Is this your girlfriend?".

To which he replied "this is Helen" which made it worse again. Didn't even say yeah this is my girl Helen etc.

lainey_d_123

Strazdas wrote: »

The scene where Connell's friend comes over to join them at the funeral and Connell doesn't even introduce Helen to him was excruciating. Eventually the friend has to ask "Who's this? Is this your girlfriend?".

He asks in an even ruder way than that, "Who's this? Girlfriend, is it?" or something.

Having been in a similar position, I felt like I was being stabbed in the heart when I watched that episode. It was all so spot on. She had been nothing but kind and patient with Connell, but she was never going to compete with Marianne, and rather than admit it, he tried to make her feel unreasonable and demanding.

Hamachi

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

He asks in an even ruder way than that, "Who's this? Girlfriend, is it?" or something.

Having been in a similar position, I felt like I was being stabbed in the heart when I watched that episode. It was all so spot on. She had been nothing but kind and patient with Connell, but she was never going to compete with Marianne, and rather than admit it, he tried to make her feel unreasonable and demanding.

What makes it even worse, is that Connell’s relationship with Helen is pretty long-term and substantial.

The TV show kind of suggests that it’s a short-term, flash in the pan thing. Helen appears in one episode and is dumped in the next. However, the chronology is much clearer in the book. He meets Helen before Christmas in second year and is still with her in January of his third year, when the funeral takes place. It’s a really horrendous way to treat somebody you’ve been seeing for more than a year.

The dynamic between Helen and Marianne is interesting in the book. Helen points out some less appealing sides of Marianne’s persona. Whilst some of this commentary is undoubtedly driven by insecurity, I felt it was the only time the reader is given an objective critique of Marianne, warts and all.

Overall, I felt the TV show smoothed over the less palatable edges of both Connell and Marianne. The viewer is really rooting for them. However, I felt a lot more ambivalent about both characters after reading the book.

lainey_d_123

Hamachi wrote: »

It’s jarring, out-of-context, and tokenistic.

I read an interview with Lenny Abrahamson. The mantra on set was ‘the book is the bible’. Yet they couldn’t find one Swedish actor who remotely physically resembles how Lukas is described in the book?

This trend of shoe-horning in diversity into every narrative is quite annoying frankly.

This is a really weird line of thought.

Sweden is EXTREMELY diverse and multi cultural. I work with a Swedish man who is half Moroccan and it never occurred to me to consider him less Swedish because he's dark.

Perhaps they're not 'shoe horning in diversity' and are in fact just casting people who auditioned well?

Complaining that it's not realistic because everyone isn't white is pretty racist and ignorant, to be honest.

olestoepoke

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

This is a really weird line of thought.

Sweden is EXTREMELY diverse and multi cultural. I work with a Swedish man who is half Moroccan and it never occurred to me to consider him less Swedish because he's dark.

Perhaps they're not 'shoe horning in diversity' and are in fact just casting people who auditioned well?

Complaining that it's not realistic because everyone isn't white is pretty racist and ignorant, to be honest.

Now before you pull the "R" card that character was a tall Scandinavian blonde guy in the book so maybe the poster has a point.

Hamachi

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

This is a really weird line of thought.

Sweden is EXTREMELY diverse and multi cultural. I work with a Swedish man who is half Moroccan and it never occurred to me to consider him less Swedish because he's dark.

Perhaps they're not 'shoe horning in diversity' and are in fact just casting people who auditioned well?

Complaining that it's not realistic because everyone isn't white is pretty racist and ignorant, to be honest.

I’m not complaining that the cast isn’t 100% white. The point I’m making is that the creatives behind the show made a huge deal of being faithful to the source material. The ‘book is the bible’ and all that.

However, the casting here doesn’t reflect that mantra at all. There’s nothing wrong with the actor who plays the part of Lukas; he’s fine, fairly believable. However, for anybody who has read the book, it’s pretty jarring, given how explicitly he’s described in the book.

Water John

Ah Red in The Shawshank Redemption was Irish in the story, ended being played in one of his greatest roles by Morgan Freeman.

Man Vs ManUre

Water John wrote: »

Ah Red in The Shawshank Redemption was Irish in the story, ended being played in one of his greatest roles by Morgan Freeman.

Maybe it would have won a few Oscars if Leonardo DiCaprio played Red??!!

1 sheep2

Must confess, I'm finding the series increasingly tiresome. Perhaps it works when you identify with the characters, as many say they do, but I just find the lingering close-ups and threadbare dialogue tedious.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

I’m not complaining that the cast isn’t 100% white. The point I’m making is that the creatives behind the show made a huge deal of being faithful to the source material. The ‘book is the bible’ and all that.

However, the casting here doesn’t reflect that mantra at all. There’s nothing wrong with the actor who plays the part of Lukas; he’s fine, fairly believable. However, for anybody who has read the book, it’s pretty jarring, given how explicitly he’s described in the book.

How does the book describe him?

SusieBlue

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How does the book describe him?

If I remember correctly it describes him as extremely tall with blonde hair and blue eyes, distinctly Eastern European looking.

brendanwalsh

Watched the last episode tonight.
I’m Heartbroken.

MoonUnit75

Hamachi wrote: »

I’m not complaining that the cast isn’t 100% white. The point I’m making is that the creatives behind the show made a huge deal of being faithful to the source material. The ‘book is the bible’ and all that.

However, the casting here doesn’t reflect that mantra at all. There’s nothing wrong with the actor who plays the part of Lukas; he’s fine, fairly believable. However, for anybody who has read the book, it’s pretty jarring, given how explicitly he’s described in the book.

It's called 'colour-blind casting'. People of colour play white people and people of colour, white people play white people.

lainey_d_123

olestoepoke wrote: »

Now before you pull the "R" card that character was a tall Scandinavian blonde guy in the book so maybe the poster has a point.

So what, though? Is colouring THAT important? What does it add to the story?

Hamachi wrote: »

I’m not complaining that the cast isn’t 100% white. The point I’m making is that the creatives behind the show made a huge deal of being faithful to the source material. The ‘book is the bible’ and all that.

However, the casting here doesn’t reflect that mantra at all. There’s nothing wrong with the actor who plays the part of Lukas; he’s fine, fairly believable. However, for anybody who has read the book, it’s pretty jarring, given how explicitly he’s described in the book.

I'm pretty sure they meant that they were reproducing the scenarios as described in the book, not hiring actors who looked exactly like the people Sally Rooney described. The actor who plays Lukas is actually Swedish - maybe they were looking for Swedish actors and he was the best one who auditioned?

I really don't get this Irish obsession with people needing to be white to be Irish, or Swedish. I don't think most of you who are saying this actually understand how racist it is and how awful it makes people feel who are Irish with foreign roots. Several people have criticised the casting of Aoife Hinds because she looks Asian, even though her father is a prominent Irish actor, she has an Irish name and most likely an Irish passport, but it's grand to cast Daisy Edgar-Jones from London as Marianne because she's white?

SusieBlue wrote: »

If I remember correctly it describes him as extremely tall with blonde hair and blue eyes, distinctly Eastern European looking.

Sweden isn't in eastern Europe, and tall, blond and blue eyed isn't a typical eastern European look.