Normal People [BBC - RTE] - [**SPOILERS**]

1 sheep2

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I really don't get this Irish obsession with people needing to be white to be Irish, or Swedish. I don't think most of you who are saying this actually understand how racist it is and how awful it makes people feel who are Irish with foreign roots.

I don't think it's helpful to caricature people and accuse them of racism.

If you look at the series, Marianne's English boyfriend's friend is black. As said, Marianne's Swedish boyfriend is black and Connell's girlfriend is of Asian descent. The therapist is also black. At the first party Connell goes to, and in the hall where they sit 'schols,' there are several black extras. And Connell's friendship group back in Sligo has a black guy in it. You cannot deny that all that is highly unlikely to have occurred by chance, or that, as someone else said, 'Maybe, just maybe, they were the best actors for the roles.'

It is not racist to comment on a contrived over-representation of black people. When its realism is praised in other areas, it should be okay to question the series' accuracy in that regard. It doesn't even bother me - I actually like that they are giving exposure to Irish people who are BAME. But I don't like the irrational response on here.

Maybe it would help to know that Sally Rooney is highly political. She is an ardent socialist, for one. She was part of a disaffected group on the committee of one of the college debating societies that threatened resignation over the place of women in the society. And a few years after she'd graduated (after Conversations had been published, iirc), she wrote a long and scathing Facebook post objecting to a debate motion that referred to the 'migrant crisis.' This, she said, was a prejudiced framing - an odd intervention for a famous graduate to make, considering it was a college debate that would have had ~50 in attendance. Lenny Abrahmson is also known to lean left.

yerwanthere123

1 sheep2 wrote: »

I don't think it's helpful to caricature people and accuse them of racism.

If you look at the series, Marianne's English boyfriend's friend is black. As said, Marianne's Swedish boyfriend is black and Connell's girlfriend is of Asian descent. The therapist is also black. At the first party Connell goes to, and in the hall where they sit 'schols,' there are several black extras. And Connell's friendship group back in Sligo has a black guy in it. You cannot deny that all that is highly unlikely to have occurred by chance, or that, as someone else said, 'Maybe, just maybe, they were the best actors for the roles.'

It is not racist to comment on a contrived over-representation of black people. When its realism is praised in other areas, it should be okay to question the series' accuracy in that regard. It doesn't even bother me - I actually like that they are giving exposure to Irish people who are BAME. But I don't like the irrational response on here.

Maybe it would help to know that Sally Rooney is highly political. She is an ardent socialist, for one. She was part of a disaffected group on the committee of one of the college debating societies that threatened resignation over the place of women in the society. And a few years after she'd graduated (after Conversations had been published, iirc), she wrote a long and scathing Facebook post objecting to a debate motion that referred to the 'migrant crisis.' This, she said, was a prejudiced framing - an odd intervention for a famous graduate to make, considering it was a college debate that would have had ~50 in attendance. Lenny Abrahmson is also known to lean left.

Did you enjoy the show?

1 sheep2

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Did you enjoy the show?

What point are you making?

AndrewJRenko

1 sheep2 wrote: »

I don't think it's helpful to caricature people and accuse them of racism.

If you look at the series, Marianne's English boyfriend's friend is black. As said, Marianne's Swedish boyfriend is black and Connell's girlfriend is of Asian descent. The therapist is also black. At the first party Connell goes to, and in the hall where they sit 'schols,' there are several black extras. And Connell's friendship group back in Sligo has a black guy in it. You cannot deny that all that is highly unlikely to have occurred by chance, or that, as someone else said, 'Maybe, just maybe, they were the best actors for the roles.'

It is not racist to comment on a contrived over-representation of black people.

Why would you think this is an over-representation within those demographic groups and social circles?

1 sheep2

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why would you think this is an over-representation within those demographic groups and social circles?

My first year BESS lectures of 400 people (the largest of any course) had one black guy in them. He was my friend and commented on it himself. No one who went to Trinity could deny that black people are rare.

The last census reported that 1.5% of people in Ireland identified as black.

Wrongway1985

1 sheep2 wrote: »

The last census reported that 1.5% of people in Ireland identified as black.

That's still well over 60,000 people.

yerwanthere123

1 sheep2 wrote: »

What point are you making?

This is a thread about the tv show Normal People, so I was asking if you enjoyed the show.

Hrududu

Reading all these posts giving out about there being too many black/asian characters in an Irish show.

Is this worse or better than the musings from the imaginary 18 year old niece or not? I can't decide.

1 sheep2

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

That's still well over 60,000 people.

I don't know what point you're making. If acting roles in Normal People were allocated by lot, and there have been probably no more than a hundred identifiable actors and extras, you shouldn't expect more than 1/2 black people.

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

This is a thread about the tv show Normal People, so I was asking if you enjoyed the show.

You haven't asked anyone else.

yerwanthere123

1 sheep2 wrote: »

You haven't asked anyone else.

No one else is posting irrelevant nonsense though.

AndrewJRenko

1 sheep2 wrote: »

My first year BESS lectures of 400 people (the largest of any course) had one black guy in them. He was my friend and commented on it himself. No one who went to Trinity could deny that black people are rare.

The last census reported that 1.5% of people in Ireland identified as black.

The Census figure is meaningless when you're focusing on a particular age and social demographic.

I guess it might vary depending on course. The Trinity Masters group I worked with a couple of years back was 80% non-Irish - Chinese, Indian, American (white, black, Asian, hispanic) and European (white, black).

1 sheep2

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The Census figure is meaningless when you're focusing on a particular age and social demographic.

I guess it might vary depending on course. The Trinity Masters group I worked with a couple of years back was 80% non-Irish - Chinese, Indian, American (white, black, Asian, hispanic) and European (white, black).

What on earth do you think you are proving by showing selective class pictures? Surely you're not contending that an entirely female class should be assumed to be representative? It's a university of 16k students. I expect there are hundreds of BAME students.

And the census figure is meaningless?! Lol, whatever. Not going to bother engaging further with this stupidity.

Hrududu

1 sheep2 wrote: »

What on earth do you think you are proving by showing selective class pictures?

1 sheep2 wrote: »

My first year BESS lectures of 400 people (the largest of any course) had one black guy in them. He was my friend and commented on it himself. No one who went to Trinity could deny that black people are rare.

Ok, I think I have this.

Selective class pictures proving one posters point: Not allowed

Anecdotal evidence of another posters class demographic: allowed

Anyway. Two more episodes left (for those of us watching on the TV). Will be sad not to have it to look forward to on a Monday evening. Really enjoyed this show. I have to say I think it was better than the book.

interlocked

I saw somewhere online in the past few days that Sally Rooney didn't empathise with or even like the lead characters whilst writing her book but that subsequently whilst cowriting the screenplay she changed her outlook.

I can't find the reference but if true,it could explain some of the subtler differences between the novel and the series. It's an interesting angle anyway, might even prompt her to write a sequel, she must be under some pressure to do so anyway.

lainey_d_123

1 sheep2 wrote: »

My first year BESS lectures of 400 people (the largest of any course) had one black guy in them. He was my friend and commented on it himself. No one who went to Trinity could deny that black people are rare.

The last census reported that 1.5% of people in Ireland identified as black.

So you lived in a white middle class D4 bubble. Great. I also went to Trinity, and in my small seminar group alone, there were Irish students from several different racial backgrounds. In a group of about 12. If we had been featured on TV, you would have been mouthing off about how they'd hired actors to make us look more diverse. Well, it WAS diverse. I had absolutely loads of friends from all sorts of backgrounds in college. I think the place was about 10% non Irish when I was there, not counting the Irish people who were half this or that or born in Ireland to non Irish parents (and there were MANY of those).

1 sheep2

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

So you lived in a white middle class D4 bubble. Great. I also went to Trinity, and in my small seminar group alone, there were Irish students from several different racial backgrounds. In a group of about 12. If we had been featured on TV, you would have been mouthing off about how they'd hired actors to make us look more diverse. Well, it WAS diverse. I had absolutely loads of friends from all sorts of backgrounds in college. I think the place was about 10% non Irish when I was there, not counting the Irish people who were half this or that or born in Ireland to non Irish parents (and there were MANY of those).

Goodness, you people are tiresome. Well-meaning but hysterical.

You've caricatured me based on my saying that I did BESS and had a black friend. And from that you've somehow conclude I live in a white, middle-class, D4 bubble?

Good for you if your seminar group of 12 (!) was diverse. The university as a whole isn't.

pixelburp

Ok, move the conversation on and back to the shows specifics. Enough of the inane bickering over demographics; this thread has had a ludicrous resting hostility and it ends now. Any further cribbing and cards come out

Mick McGraw

interlocked wrote: »

I saw somewhere online in the past few days that Sally Rooney didn't empathise with or even like the lead characters whilst writing her book but that subsequently whilst cowriting the screenplay she changed her outlook.

I can't find the reference but if true,it could explain some of the subtler differences between the novel and the series. It's an interesting angle anyway, might even prompt her to write a sequel, she must be under some pressure to do so anyway.

They're not wholly likable in the novel (and I would think the book is all the better for it) and to be honest or large parts of the novel I had a real dislike for both lead characters so that's why I have found the fawning over the TV series and how wonderful the characters are means it's must differ a bit in tone from the novel.

olestoepoke

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

So what, though? Is colouring THAT important? What does it add to the story?



I'm pretty sure they meant that they were reproducing the scenarios as described in the book, not hiring actors who looked exactly like the people Sally Rooney described. The actor who plays Lukas is actually Swedish - maybe they were looking for Swedish actors and he was the best one who auditioned?

I really don't get this Irish obsession with people needing to be white to be Irish, or Swedish. I don't think most of you who are saying this actually understand how racist it is and how awful it makes people feel who are Irish with foreign roots. Several people have criticised the casting of Aoife Hinds because she looks Asian, even though her father is a prominent Irish actor, she has an Irish name and most likely an Irish passport, but it's grand to cast Daisy Edgar-Jones from London as Marianne because she's white?




Sweden isn't in eastern Europe, and tall, blond and blue eyed isn't a typical eastern European look.

To me, no colour is not important and it made no difference to the show in my opinion. That said, I think that it's a pretty serious accusation to call someone a racist and that you were too quick to call the poster a racist based on their post. Did you ever consider that the poster had read the book and in their opinion would have liked the characters to be closer to how they were described in the book before you called them a racist. Honestly, you are looking for racists that aren't there.

olestoepoke

Hrududu wrote: »

Reading all these posts giving out about there being too many black/asian characters in an Irish show.

Is this worse or better than the musings from the imaginary 18 year old niece or not? I can't decide.

Actually she was allegedly 17.:D

Hamachi

Mick McGraw wrote: »

They're not wholly likable in the novel (and I would think the book is all the better for it) and to be honest or large parts of the novel I had a real dislike for both lead characters so that's why I have found the fawning over the TV series and how wonderful the characters are means it's must differ a bit in tone from the novel.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. I was ambivalent at best, about both protagonists reading the novel. They have been slightly softened in the TV series to render them more sympathetic.

For instance, some of the immature, but strident political views (ironic given how this thread has evolved) espoused in the novel, are omitted. The behavior of some of the less appealing secondary characters is amplified, presumably to reflect well on Marianne and Connell.

Finally, the ending, whilst pretty faithful to the source, omits one piece of information served up in the novel. This intensifies the finale of the TV show and makes it more bitter / sweet.

Hamachi

interlocked wrote: »

I saw somewhere online in the past few days that Sally Rooney didn't empathise with or even like the lead characters whilst writing her book but that subsequently whilst cowriting the screenplay she changed her outlook.

I can't find the reference but if true,it could explain some of the subtler differences between the novel and the series. It's an interesting angle anyway, might even prompt her to write a sequel, she must be under some pressure to do so anyway.

I think this may a case of the lady doth protest too much. Listening to Sally Rooney being interviewed and reading a little about her background and politics, I can’t help but feel that she has infused Marianne with quite a bit of her own persona.

In my view, now is not the time to write a sequel and I hope she doesn’t cave into the pressure. The years from 17/18 through 22/23 are highly formative. However, once people settle into careers and long term relationships post-college, life tends to find a natural rhythm, punctuated by occasional huge events and milestones.

I’d like to revisit them in their mid-30s after they have dealt with some of the vicissitudes of life. Events like parents dying, marriage, children, failed relationships, career highs and lows, all serve to change and shape people as they move through life.

Frankly, I don’t think either protagonist is sufficiently interesting to re-visit right away. However, I’d love to see how they evolve throughout the next 10-15 years. Of course the danger here is that both Daisy Edgar Jones and Paul Mescal may be so widely successful by then, that they will have little appetite to return to these characters.

EmptyTree

Anyone any idea what the song that is being used with the ad for normal people on RTE at the moment is?

olestoepoke

EmptyTree wrote: »

Anyone any idea what the song that is being used with the ad for normal people on RTE at the moment is?

Heavy by Orla Gartland

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I looked her up and was really surprised to find out she didn't grow up in Ireland. I think her posh Dublin accent is really spot on. Apparently she grew up between England and France...never would have imagined that. Either there's an amazing dialect coach working on the show or her and Daisy Edgar-Jones must have some ear for accents.

Her aul fella is one hell of an actor. Whether its December Bride, Some Mothers Son or Game of Thrones, he is brilliant in it. She didnt lick it off a stone. incidentally, i like the guy who played her dad in normal people. I think its because he had a bit in Father Ted where he was coaching the choir of altar boys prior to the Golden Cleric Awards. Simple gag but brilliant lol

Man Vs ManUre

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

Looking at the Denny sausage ad, can say this fella has a real presence for comedy roles also. He is just so natural in similar way that Fr Ted Crilley and Fr Douglas Maguire could deliver genius comedy.

Ive been impressed with his interviews. Compare him to Barry keoghan who is a total and utter egotist, this is a man who is very level headed, keeps his feet on the ground and in spite of the new found attention, his immediate focus is on securing his next role. Admirable maturity. I genuinely wish him well.

Watching episode 7 at the moment. Connall may have been a little unreasonable when Jamie was trying to emphatise with him over his mugging. And he was right too, the guy who mugged him was going to shove the cash straight up his nose so to speak.

yerwanthere123

Saw the ad on RTÉ for the final two episodes on Monday, they basically give away almost everything that happens! Same as the information on the Sky guide too, gives away way too much.

yerwanthere123

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Saw the ad on RTÉ for the final two episodes on Monday, they basically give away almost everything that happens! Same as the information on the Sky guide too, gives away way too much.

Id seen it by other means prior but i agree. All the best bits basically given away. Laughable channel.

Strazdas

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Saw the ad on RTÉ for the final two episodes on Monday, they basically give away almost everything that happens! Same as the information on the Sky guide too, gives away way too much.

Yes, those trailers are giving way too much info away : it should just be a few vague clips from the episode, not the entire storyline and all the juicy bits.