Normal People [BBC - RTE] - [**SPOILERS**]

All that fandango

Now that you say it, that makes sense now why in the second last episode, Marianne's brother says something about "I don't want that knacker riding my sister". I couldnt understand why he used that word of all words to describe Connell when his upbringing and background was fairly normal in the show and Connell came across as a fairly decent guy most of the time. I didnt read the book so cant comment and compare.

olestoepoke

All that fandango wrote: »

Now that you say it, that makes sense now why in the second last episode, Marianne's brother says something about "I don't want that knacker riding my sister". I couldnt understand why he used that word of all words to describe Connell when his upbringing and background was fairly normal in the show and Connell came across as a fairly decent guy most of the time. I didnt read the book so cant comment and compare.

The book alludes to his unsavoury family background. Uncle in jail, mother pregnant at 15 with no father in sight and another relative crashing a bike into the town roundabout I think. also as said previous it is mentioned that Connall turned out well in spite of his family reputation.

murpho999

castletownman wrote: »

Just the ending I expected. Uneventful, like pretty much the entire series. I can see how some people would be totes emosh at the finale, but it was sign-posted early on and ended abruptly then.

Now I know I will evoke the rage of the fans that can't see anyone else's opinion on the show, but to me it meandered along, crescendoed for the suicide episode and reverted back to type thereafter. As someone mentioned before, they sort of just dumped scenes here and there of the brother being nasty and abusive towards Marriane without any insight or development as to why. Same goes with the mammy-why was she giving them all a cold shoulder at the end there?

Genuinely think it wouldn't have the same high rating if it wasn't based in Ireland and on Netflix instead.

Shout out to RTE as well for pretty giving away the entire upcoming plot in every trailer they showed. As professional as always.

Very strange statement. The show is a big hit in the US and UK.

If it was on Netflix it would be an even bigger hit. Plenty of shows on Netflix are well received by media, audiences and posters here so I just don't get your logic.

The show was a drama and representation of a relationship as two people grew up.
It's not an action show or a rom-com so I would not call it uneventful in anyway.
Sometimes it's ok to just watch people have a conversation in a room or even share a moment of silence.
I thought the characters were developed beautifully and the cast did a fantastic job.

Best drama I have seen in a long time. Will live long in the memory.

Certainly wasnt as good as the Irish Twitterati seem to make it out to be, but then they'd even fawn over any sh1te Amy Huberman churns out.

As previous posters have said though, very real, very well acted, great shooting. As Irish drama's go, i think Pure Mule beats the sh1t out of it, but I do like Lenny Abrahamson as a director. Garage and What Richard Did are two fine pieces of work. This is a decent show too.

olestoepoke

olestoepoke wrote: »

The book alludes to his unsavoury family background. Uncle in jail, mother pregnant at 15 with no father in sight and another relative crashing a bike into the town roundabout I think. also as said previous it is mentioned that Connall turned out well in spite of his family reputation.

They should have sold that more to add a bit of grit to the storyline. Thats actually decent writing. Its hard to envisage on screen Connell having the same personality as book Connell though.

The bike into the town roundabout thing actually sounds comical.. a push bike?

The_Brood

The_Brood wrote: »

Once people had different dreams and goals in life, different passions and ambitions, be it exploration, adventure, science, architecture, the arts etc. Now the only acceptable life goal seems to be how often you can pump out bodily fluids from your genitals. That is what people relate to. And that is hailed as "positive" and "progress."

Sad.

Ye wha??? :eek:

fergus1001

The_Brood wrote:

Once people had different dreams and goals in life, different passions and ambitions, be it exploration, adventure, science, architecture, the arts etc. Now the only acceptable life goal seems to be how often you can pump out bodily fluids from your genitals. That is what people relate to. And that is hailed as "positive" and "progress."

the 1950's called they want you back

castletownman

murpho999 wrote: »

Very strange statement. The show is a big hit in the US and UK.

If it was on Netflix it would be an even bigger hit. Plenty of shows on Netflix are well received by media, audiences and posters here so I just don't get your logic.

The show was a drama and representation of a relationship as two people grew up.
It's not an action show or a rom-com so I would not call it uneventful in anyway.
Sometimes it's ok to just watch people have a conversation in a room or even share a moment of silence.
I thought the characters were developed beautifully and the cast did a fantastic job.

Best drama I have seen in a long time. Will live long in the memory.

Respectively don't agree about it being a strange statement.

Think about it now for a second, the show gained some notoriety, and ergo a lot more attention, due the sex scenes, which were quite unlike anything else seen on a prime-time slot on RTE before, certainly from an Irish show. I would hazard a guess that those calling into Joe Duffy and the likes wouldn't be au fait with Netflix.

Hence, the show could have been released on Netflix, without the added exposure and promotion that shows on the national broadcaster receive, and I am fairly sure it wouldn't be as universally lauded. I mean, aside from those that read the book, would it have clicked to the "normal person" (no pun intended, I swear), that it could be worth watching? Heck, I think it aired on BBC4 too (open to correction there), and nearly everything on that passes me by as it isn't a channel I tend to watch.

And let's be honest too, its a show based on a book by a female author that appeals more to women (emotional development of the characters and the awkwardness of growing up as you mention)- its generally a rule of thumb that they are reviewed more favourably by critics. I mean, people were loathe to dare criticise Can't Cope, Won't Cope because it was written by Stephanie Pressner.

I do agree that it was beautifully produced, and that the acting was by and large excellent, apart from Connall, who I thought was a bit wooden aside from the suicide episode. And actually, the infatuation that a lot of women seem to have for him borders on creepy.

newbie18892

I just finished the show last night after recently reading the book. I really enjoyed it overall. It was really nice to see such a well-produced show set in Ireland.

I found Connell's experience of isolation in college to be very relatable. The scene where he attends the counselling service in college made me sob. Really well done on Paul Mescal's part. I also would have never believed that the actress who plays Marianne wasn't Irish if I hadn't already known her from War of the Worlds.

The only major criticisms that I have would be that the show does naturally lose some of the introspection of the book. I think this is particularly noticeable in regards to Connell. As he is definitely a man of few words, some of his feelings and thought processes are lost. I think if I hadn't read the book, I may have felt a bit confused by his actions in certain parts of the story. I think this also makes the dialogue feel a bit clunky at times for both Connell and Marianne as it is lifted straight from the book. However, not in a way that majorly detracts from the story.

Another factor that I didn't particularly enjoy was the portrayal of BDSM in the book and the show. I feel like the story relies heavily on the trope of BDSM being parallelled with abuse. This is most evident when Marianne is in Sweden. She wants the opposite of being loved and cared for, and that seemingly translates to an odd BDSM dynamic with Lukas. Later, when Marianne asks Connell to hit her while they are having sex and he pulls away, she apologies and goes home. I got the impression as a viewer and reader that we are supposed to see Connell as a 'better man', because he wouldn't hit her (in the bedroom with consent) when those things don't necessarily correlate. It just isn't something Connell is interested in and that is not a positive or negative thing. It is true that Marianne has a history of bad relationships with men that influence her view. Her brother Alan is abusive. Her father was too. Her ex Jamie is undoubtedly a prick but I don't think he's a bad person because he's a sadist. Marianne consents to being hit by him. In the book she expresses that she's not sure she likes it, but in the show she says she does. Jamie is just a bad person because of his rotten personality and behaviour. I think the story paints over BDSM with a heavy stereotypical brush.

I thought the ending gave a satisfying level of closure for Connell and Marianne, particularly how the show adapted it.

Shelga

I’m not sure I agree with the criticism of how BDSM is portrayed in the show- surely people who enjoy it would agree that it should only be something someone does if they are coming from a healthy headspace? Which Marianne obviously was not.

olestoepoke

Deleted User wrote: »

They should have sold that more to add a bit of grit to the storyline. Thats actually decent writing. Its hard to envisage on screen Connell having the same personality as book Connell though.

The bike into the town roundabout thing actually sounds comical.. a push bike?

May have been a motorbike or car been awhile since I read it. Either way a family member crashed some sort of vehicle into the town roundabout and was the talk of the town.

newbie18892

Shelga wrote: »

I’m not sure I agree with the criticism of how BDSM is portrayed in the show- surely people who enjoy it would agree that it should only be something someone does if they are coming from a healthy headspace? Which Marianne obviously was not.

Oh absolutely BDSM should be something you engage in in a healthy headspace. Marianne certainly was not in the best frame of mind and she is a vulnerable person. I think the BDSM = bad trope was easy for the story to fall into though. We never really saw BDSM painted in a healthy light in my opinion so there wasn't something positive to hold Marianne's experiences up against and say "oh this is how you actually do it". I do think the show handled the issues of sex and sexuality really well for the most part though.

murpho999

castletownman wrote: »

Respectively don't agree about it being a strange statement.

Think about it now for a second, the show gained some notoriety, and ergo a lot more attention, due the sex scenes, which were quite unlike anything else seen on a prime-time slot on RTE before, certainly from an Irish show. I would hazard a guess that those calling into Joe Duffy and the likes wouldn't be au fait with Netflix.

Hence, the show could have been released on Netflix, without the added exposure and promotion that shows on the national broadcaster receive, and I am fairly sure it wouldn't be as universally lauded. I mean, aside from those that read the book, would it have clicked to the "normal person" (no pun intended, I swear), that it could be worth watching? Heck, I think it aired on BBC4 too (open to correction there), and nearly everything on that passes me by as it isn't a channel I tend to watch.

And let's be honest too, its a show based on a book by a female author that appeals more to women (emotional development of the characters and the awkwardness of growing up as you mention)- its generally a rule of thumb that they are reviewed more favourably by critics. I mean, people were loathe to dare criticise Can't Cope, Won't Cope because it was written by Stephanie Pressner.

I do agree that it was beautifully produced, and that the acting was by and large excellent, apart from Connall, who I thought was a bit wooden aside from the suicide episode. And actually, the infatuation that a lot of women seem to have for him borders on creepy.

The sex scenes have only been "controversial" in Ireland and even so mildly at that. The people ringing into Joe Duffy are a small minority and I don't think representative of those who watched and enjoyed the show.

The show has not just received acclaim for this in Ireland. It has received high critical praise abroad. It's got that on merit and not because it was Irish or written by a woman.
It would still have received the praise if it had been broadcast on Netflix.

It was originally broadcast on BBC 3 in the UK and received well and now it's on BBC 1. In fact it has set a record for requests for a BBC 3 show on the BBC player. 21m requests.

Also thought the acting was top notch and disagree with you strongly on Paul Mescal's acting. He was fantastic and caught the emotion just right. His woodenness that you refer to was perceived by me as him showing the shyness, awkwardness and dilemma of his character and I think the actor may have a stellar career ahead.

All that fandango

All that fandango wrote: »

Now that you say it, that makes sense now why in the second last episode, Marianne's brother says something about "I don't want that knacker riding my sister". I couldnt understand why he used that word of all words to describe Connell when his upbringing and background was fairly normal in the show and Connell came across as a fairly decent guy most of the time. I didnt read the book so cant comment and compare.

Given the backstory, the brother's animosity makes perfect sense. However, in the context of the show solely, it was a rather ironic moment. However, it just showed what a deluded bullying narcissist that Alan is. Connell, for all his faults is twice the man he is.

ricero

I finished this last night. It started off very well but did dip slighly near the end.

The whole Sweden episide was the drizzling ****s and probably should of been cut from the the show.

Overall it was very good and there was brilliant acting in it. It was such a huge hit I'll be shocked if there is not more of this in the future.

Hangdogroad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Given the backstory, the brother's animosity makes perfect sense. However, in the context of the show solely, it was a rather ironic moment. However, it just showed what a deluded bullying narcissist that Alan is. Connell, for all his faults is twice the man he is.

I've known people like him and they casually use the word to describe anyone from what they perceive to be working class, and not just "scumbags" .

JoeExotic81

ricero wrote: »

It was such a huge hit I'll be shocked if there is not more of this in the future.

The BBC commissioned her other book and it's already in production by the same team. Will be interesting as it's crazy similar to normal people.

fisgon

I am in the middle of this at the mo, and am enjoying the TV series more than the book. There is a kind of subdued intensity about it, if that is not a contradiction in terms. It is very slow but very intense, all at the same time.

A few things came back to me though, that irritated me about the book.
- The on, off, on again, off again nature of their relationship is just annoying - it starts to feel contrived, artificially drawn out so as to fill up 12 episodes (and originally a whole novel).

- Connell is not in any way a realistic character - he is basically a kind of idealised teenage girl's fantasy - athletic, good-looking, tall, sensitive, incredibly smart, a great writer, into literature, can spend a whole day just staring at a painting, kind, loves his mother. If a male writer wrote an equivalent female character, he would be rightly derided.

TCDStudent1

fisgon wrote: »

I am in the middle of this at the mo, and am enjoying the TV series more than the book. There is a kind of subdued intensity about it, if that is not a contradiction in terms. It is very slow but very intense, all at the same time.

A few things came back to me though, that irritated me about the book.
- The on, off, on again, off again nature of their relationship is just annoying - it starts to feel contrived, artificially drawn out so as to fill up 12 episodes (and originally a whole novel).

- Connell is not in any way a realistic character - he is basically a kind of idealised teenage girl's fantasy - athletic, good-looking, tall, sensitive, incredibly smart, a great writer, into literature, can spend a whole day just staring at a painting, kind, loves his mother. If a male writer wrote an equivalent female character, he would be rightly derided.

But he is clearly flawed in that he cant express his feelings and struggles to speak.

fisgon

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

But he is clearly flawed in that he cant express his feelings and struggles to speak.

That's part of the fantasy; he's the strong, silent type, on top of all of the above. I got the impression reading the book that Sally Rooney had a bit of a crush on Connell herself.....

TCDStudent1

fisgon wrote: »

That's part of the fantasy; he's the strong, silent type, on top of all of the above. I got the impression reading the book that Sally Rooney had a bit of a crush on Connell herself.....

I have only watched the TV show. However, I felt there was a clear lack of confidence in Connell rather than being a ‘strong silent type’.

Strazdas

fisgon wrote: »

That's part of the fantasy; he's the strong, silent type, on top of all of the above. I got the impression reading the book that Sally Rooney had a bit of a crush on Connell herself.....

Stick with it though. Towards the end of the series we discover (without giving too much away) he is not as strong as he looks.

Muahahaha

In the book does it flesh out further why Marianne doesnt want to go to NY with Connell.

Also her mother blanking her on the street and asking her to post back the keys to the Dublin house, in the book did the mother cut her off financially or what happened.

fisgon

Strazdas wrote: »

Stick with it though. Towards the end of the series we discover (without giving too much away) he is not as strong as he looks.

I have read the book, so I know how the story goes.

I do think that episode 10 is very effective and powerful - it is powerful to see a young man struggling with depression and anxiety and trying to express this. The scene with Marianne on Skype really shows their bond, how she is the one he turns to when he needs someone.

But in truth, Connell's vulnerability is also part of this idealised picture of the guy that young women dream about - tall and handsome, smart, sensitive, kind, athletic, cultured, and now we discover he can be vulnerable too! No wonder Paul Mescal has "become the centre of a social media and fan frenzy".
https://www.hellomagazine.com/film/2020060190754/normal-people-paul-mescal-reveals-what-he-thinks-of-heartthrob-status/

ednwireland

ednwireland wrote: »

Connell losing touch with club championship is real tragedy of Normal People

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/connell-losing-touch-with-club-championship-is-real-tragedy-of-normal-people-1.4265805



oh and if he was that good at gaa he would be at ucd not trinity

this program is wrong on so many levels !

All the top Sigerson teams would be knocking on his door selling their college to him like that film 'He got game'

Strazdas

fisgon wrote: »

I have read the book, so I know how the story goes.

I do think that episode 10 is very effective and powerful - it is powerful to see a young man struggling with depression and anxiety and trying to express this. The scene with Marianne on Skype really shows their bond, how she is the one he turns to when he needs someone.

But in truth, Connell's vulnerability is also part of this idealised picture of the guy that young women dream about - tall and handsome, smart, sensitive, kind, athletic, cultured, and now we discover he can be vulnerable too! No wonder Paul Mescal has "become the centre of a social media and fan frenzy".
https://www.hellomagazine.com/film/2020060190754/normal-people-paul-mescal-reveals-what-he-thinks-of-heartthrob-status/

Though it's far from clear he is the 'strong and silent' type. He fully admits to Marianne by the last episode that he is the 'panicky and silent' type. Much of his personality is down to anxiety and hidden panic attacks.

Definitely how he is presented in the first three episodes would mark him out as female heartthrob material : strong and athletic, popular with everyone, sensitive on the inside, intelligent and well read etc. But he is flawed as well....is almost quite callous towards Marianne and Helen on occasion.

Muahahaha

https://twitter.com/ThePhoenixMag/status/1268544657102864385

NIMAN

OH watching this so I have to tag along, and must say I'm not getting all the hype.

At episode 5 I think now, maybe 6. The one when the girl falls out with her boyfriend at the villa.

Anyway, I'm not really the target market for this, but it's very very slow. Pondering dialogue. Moody with the cliched slow piano tinkling in the background on important scenes.

As I say, not made for me.

GottaGetGatt

NIMAN wrote: »

OH watching this so I have to tag along, and must say I'm not getting all the hype.

At episode 5 I think now, maybe 6. The one when the girl falls out with her boyfriend at the villa.

Anyway, I'm not really the target market for this, but it's very very slow. Pondering dialogue. Moody with the cliched slow piano tinkling in the background on important scenes.

As I say, not made for me.

Your 8 episodes in.

NIMAN

Well the OH finished it, and I think I didn't concentrate much on the last 2 episodes.
Simply not for me.