An Garda Síochána - COVID19

Parachutes

Parachutes wrote: »

Is freedom of movement not guaranteed by the constitution? Doubt any of these fines would hold water in court, but then again I won’t break the rules to test the theory.

The thing about human rights is not all rights are absolute.
Our constitution guarantees many of our fundamental rights.
However all rights can and are bent and broken by laws, all the time. Eg, you are entitled to your freedom, except when you're arrested, you see.

Gemma Doherty & John Waters did bring a case to the high court, but got nowhere, I think they have an appeal in now to the supreme court. It will be interesting to see how that goes.

Anybody can bring a case if they believe a law is unconstitutional or that their rights are being infringed, the fact that no-one really has, says a lot I think.

Strumms

Parachutes wrote: »

Is freedom of movement not guaranteed by the constitution? Doubt any of these fines would hold water in court, but then again I won’t break the rules to test the theory.

The constitution was effected just over 83 years ago, when the very idea of a global pandemic was not in the thinking of anybody..

Personal rights: The state is bound to protect "the personal rights of the citizen", and in particular to defend "the life, person, good name, and property rights of every citizen" (Article 40.3).

The restrictions are defending lives.

Freedom of peaceful assembly: Subject to "public order and morality", the right of citizens to peaceful assembly "without arms" is guaranteed by Article 40.6.1°. However, the Oireachtas is empowered to limit this right by law when a meeting may be "calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public"; the Oireachtas is similarly empowered to limit this right in relation to meetings held "in the vicinity" of either House.

helimachoptor

Strumms wrote: »

The constitution was effected just over 83 years ago, when the very idea of a global pandemic was not in the thinking of anybody..

Personal rights: The state is bound to protect "the personal rights of the citizen", and in particular to defend "the life, person, good name, and property rights of every citizen" (Article 40.3).

The restrictions are defending lives.

Freedom of peaceful assembly: Subject to "public order and morality", the right of citizens to peaceful assembly "without arms" is guaranteed by Article 40.6.1°. However, the Oireachtas is empowered to limit this right by law when a meeting may be "calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public"; the Oireachtas is similarly empowered to limit this right in relation to meetings held "in the vicinity" of either House.

Spanish flu wasnt that distant a thing 80 years ago

elperello

helimachoptor wrote: »

Spanish flu wasnt that distant a thing 80 years ago

That's true.

Every single member of the Oireachtas, every member of the judiciary and civil service, and all the doctors in the country in 1936 had lived through the Spanish Flu.

Not to mention WW1, the War of Independence and the Civil War.

I regurgitate the news

Strumms wrote: »

The constitution was effected just over 83 years ago, when the very idea of a global pandemic was not in the thinking of anybody..

TB was taking more lives every year when the constitution was written and had been for decades than Covid 19 did last year.

Also, this pandemic resulted in less deaths in Ireland in 2020 than in 2018 or 2019 according to the General Registry.

You can email them and request monthly death stats to confirm this

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/49c66f-registering-a-death-in-ireland/

gro@welfare.ie

whisky_galore

Parachutes wrote: »

China is the benchmark now is it? Let’s not forget China is a totalitarian, communist state that has murdered millions of its own citizens. Even small encroachments on civil liberties should be fought tooth and nail by citizens.

Well, duh.

Irish moaning about police repression haven't a clue what real repression is.

pjohnson

whisky_galore wrote: »

Well, duh.

Irish moaning about police repression haven't a clue what real repression is.

Ah they may well feel repressed given they are probably regulars down the station/back of squad car. Theres no logical reason for any actually decent citizen to loath the Gardai like some "repressed" do.

drunkmonkey

We know it only takes a few weeks to rid the country of the Virus with a proper full lockdown and border control. The Guards by not demanding the Government do what's needed are complacent in the ongoing oppression of us.
It's not a case of "feels", "moaning" we're in a terrible place for nearly 12mts, it's real and hurting people.
I'm sure if it was put to a vote the majority of Guards and ordinary people would vote to end this in the next few weeks.

Graces7

helimachoptor wrote: »

Spanish flu wasnt that distant a thing 80 years ago

It was 1918-1919. Over 100 years ago

weldoninhio

Graces7 wrote: »

It was 1918-1919. Over 100 years ago

So only 20 odd years. Point proven.

silverharp

there was an outbreak of something in Cork back in the 50's I think , they actually implemented a lot of the measures people are doing now but it was bottom up as opposed to top down

is_that_so

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We know it only takes a few weeks to rid the country of the Virus with a proper full lockdown and border control. The Guards by not demanding the Government do what's needed are complacent in the ongoing oppression of us.
It's not a case of "feels", "moaning" we're in a terrible place for nearly 12mts, it's real and hurting people.
I'm sure if it was put to a vote the majority of Guards and ordinary people would vote to end this in the next few weeks.

4 months in Australia is not a few weeks and they had very few cases.

I regurgitate the news

is_that_so wrote: »

4 months in Australia is not a few weeks and they had very few cases.

They'll be back in lockdown in their winter and restrictions will be eased in our summer here.

If the lockdowns didn't work then why are we doing it again would be my question

is_that_so

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

They'll be back in lockdown in their winter and restrictions will be eased in our summer here.

If the lockdowns didn't work then why are we doing it again would be my question

They work in the sense of bringing cases right back down and under better control. They are not a long term answer, that's where vaccines come in. We get lots of cases of flu' every year, but we have shots for those most at risk.

odyssey06

The 1947 Public Health Act was brought in to tackle TB and for example, it includes powers to forcibly remove an infected person for treatment. It is the basis for the current statutory instruments and they are amendments to that Act.

I regurgitate the news

is_that_so wrote: »

They work in the sense of bringing cases right back down and under better control. They are not a long term answer, that's where vaccines come in. We get lots of cases of flu' every year, but we have shots for those most at risk.

So if they worked, then why are we having to do it again?

Would you say the seasons or lockdowns have a larger effect on effect on viruses?

whisky_galore

silverharp wrote: »

there was an outbreak of something in Cork back in the 50's I think , they actually implemented a lot of the measures people are doing now but it was bottom up as opposed to top down

Polio.

It was easier to manage as people weren't jetting off to their holidays they felt they were entitled to back then.

I regurgitate the news

whisky_galore wrote: »

Polio.

It was easier to manage as people weren't jetting off to their holidays they felt they were entitled to back then.

They didn't have the money to do things like that back then.

We'll be able to reproduce those circumstances in a few years with the decimation of the economy that is currently taking place, so thankfully we won't need to worry about people jetting off.

Tenzor07

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

They didn't have the money to do things like that back then.
We'll be able to reproduce those circumstances in a few years with the decimation of the economy that is currently taking place, so thankfully we won't need to worry about people jetting off.

We'll have an economy like we had back in the 1980's, but sure at least we'll have low cases of the Virus...:pac:

is_that_so

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

So if they worked, then why are we having to do it again?

Would you say the seasons or lockdowns have a larger effect on effect on viruses?

Because we still had a fair number of cases and that easing ran slap bang into the Christmas period. It was a calculated risk and had we only hit 1000 cases a day after that we'd be looking at easing again now.

I have no answer for your 2nd question. Far smarter and much more qualified people than me do not have an answer either.

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

We'll have an economy like we had back in the 1980's, but sure at least we'll have low cases of the Virus...:pac:

I’d take the economy of the 1980s if we went back to other aspects of 1980s society as well. Like no mobile phones, no social media, cool haircuts, good music, slower pace of life.

Unfortunately we’ll just get 1980’s **** economy with 2020’s **** societal norms

elperello

Deleted User wrote: »

I’d take the economy of the 1980s if we went back to other aspects of 1980s society as well. Like no mobile phones, no social media, cool haircuts, good music, slower pace of life.

Unfortunately we’ll just get 1980’s **** economy with 2020’s **** societal norms

No going back for society but as individuals we can partake on our own terms.

You don't have to have a smartphone or be on social media. A good barber will cut your hair the way you want it. Plenty of 80's music around. You can take steps to slow your own pace of life.

Lot's of young people out there trying to make their way so I hope the economy gets going as soon as it's safe for their sake.

fran38

What time are the Garda checkpoints set up at Dublin airport?

Parachutes

fran38 wrote: »

What time are the Garda checkpoints set up at Dublin airport?

Not 100% on the airport but they are at the port 24hrs a day. Imagine the airport will be the same.

I regurgitate the news

Parachutes wrote: »

Not 100% on the airport but they are at the port 24hrs a day. Imagine the airport will be the same.

Natural po-lice

For Forks Sake

prunudo wrote: »

The 2 examples are of people doing whats legally allowed by law, they shouldn't be subjected to that sort of interrogation on the the side of the road. Ringing the hospital to see if the appointment is real, thats bordering on harassment.

This thread alone is chock full of people looking for tenuous exemptions and loopholes, and you wonder why the guards need to fact-check some of the bullsh1t spiels they're being given?

Theres no logical reason for any actually decent citizen to loath the Gardai like some "repressed" do.

I don't loathe the gardai but I'm annoyed with them. For years they have been saying they don't have the resources to do X, Y and Z. Now they suddenly don't have the powers.

They don't have the powers to break up house parties, or disperse a small crowd. Oh really? This is news to me.

In the same week there were 3 deaths due to knife crime they respond by releasing a video of a few of them dancing. Thanks guys.

I've seen one checkpoint(In nearly a year!). On the quays in Dublin, in a spot that is a choke point for traffic at the best of times. Would they not put it at a few of the entrances to the M50? That way you could target people going further than 5K, if that is the desired effect.

Even pre-covid you could walk around Dublin all day long and never see a guard. They seem to have given up on on-the-beat policing. I wonder is there any correlation between the complete absence of gardai on the streets and teenagers roaming the streets stabbing people at night?

ginoginelli

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't loathe the gardai but I'm annoyed with them. For years they have been saying they don't have the resources to do X, Y and Z. Now they suddenly don't have the powers.

They don't have the powers to break up house parties, or disperse a small crowd. Oh really? This is news to me.

In the same week there were 3 deaths due to knife crime they respond by releasing a video of a few of them dancing. Thanks guys.

I've seen one checkpoint(In nearly a year!). On the quays in Dublin, in a spot that is a choke point for traffic at the best of times. Would they not put it at a few of the entrances to the M50? That way you could target people going further than 5K, if that is the desired effect.

Even pre-covid you could walk around Dublin all day long and never see a guard. They seem to have given up on on-the-beat policing. I wonder is there any correlation between the complete absence of gardai on the streets and teenagers roaming the streets stabbing people at night?

Good post.

Switching between citing resources and lack of powers just comes across as looking for an excuse to do nothing. They were offered the legislation during the summer to break up big groups and refused them, then, a few weeks later, when they were getting stick about the same issue, they said they didn't have the powers???

The whole department is antiquated and needs a huge overhaul and update imo. They're still stuck in the 80s, too many cute hoors and and "a do the minimum" civil service type attitude.

No doubt there are some great individuals in the organization, and id bet they are probably as frustrated as the public with the systemic apathy shown by the brass.

weldoninhio

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't loathe the gardai but I'm annoyed with them. For years they have been saying they don't have the resources to do X, Y and Z. Now they suddenly don't have the powers.

They don't have the powers to break up house parties, or disperse a small crowd. Oh really? This is news to me.

In the same week there were 3 deaths due to knife crime they respond by releasing a video of a few of them dancing. Thanks guys.

I've seen one checkpoint(In nearly a year!). On the quays in Dublin, in a spot that is a choke point for traffic at the best of times. Would they not put it at a few of the entrances to the M50? That way you could target people going further than 5K, if that is the desired effect.

Even pre-covid you could walk around Dublin all day long and never see a guard. They seem to have given up on on-the-beat policing. I wonder is there any correlation between the complete absence of gardai on the streets and teenagers roaming the streets stabbing people at night?

I'm the same. I know a few Garda socially and they are sound lads and girls. None of them work in the area I live. But unless I needed a form filled in, I wouldn't bother calling the Gardai. Assault, mugging for just my wallet/jewelry, attempted break in, it's less frustrating to just get on with it.

whisky_galore

Is this for real, a scam or dick waving BS?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/lets-party-hard-organisers-insist-st-patricks-day-lockdown-rave-will-go-ahead-1081999.html

In a series of posts over the weekend, they claimed to have sold 400 tickets.

They also described Covid as a hoax and said they believe the current restrictions will end on March 5th.