An Garda Síochána - COVID19

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why do you have to say anything? Not sure where you went today but the usual checkpoints were out in force today in east Cork.

Because maybe not everyone sticks to their own county? Or the limits that they should?

namloc1980

bubblypop wrote: »

Because maybe not everyone sticks to their own county? Or the limits that they should?

Then have them at the county bounds. Stopping everyone to try to catch the one fella who drove in from Waterford is a farce. But feel free to continue to defend it.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Then have them at the county bounds. Stopping everyone to try to catch the one fella who drove in from Waterford is a farce. But feel free to continue to defend it.

But people can cross county boundaries if they live within 20 km.

namloc1980

bubblypop wrote: »

But people can cross county boundaries if they live within 20 km.

Yes and you can also catch the fella who doesn't live within 20km of the country bounds and can ask others where they are going. Stopping everyone in the middle of the country is just silly and annoying the vast majority of people going about their business.

SweetCaliber

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yes and you can also catch the fella who doesn't live within 20km of the country bounds and can ask others where they are going. Stopping everyone in the middle of the country is just silly and annoying the vast majority of people going about their business.

Exactly. Have no issue whatsoever for pop up random checkpoints on the bounds, but having them in the middle of towns and city's where 99.9% of the traffic will be people legally going about their business is just stupid beyond belief.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yes and you can also catch the fella who doesn't live within 20km of the country bounds and can ask others where they are going. Stopping everyone in the middle of the country is just silly and annoying the vast majority of people going about their business.

It may be , but having a national police force police a public health emergency is also silly, but that's where we are. So, as the government wants restrictions adhered to, people will be stopped to make sure they are either within their county boundary or 20km from home.

Btw, you do know gardai can and do set up checkpoints anywhere right? For lots of reasons?

namloc1980

bubblypop wrote: »

It may be , but having a national police force police a public health emergency is also silly, but that's where we are. So, as the government wants restrictions adhered to, people will be stopped to make sure they are either within their county boundary or 20km from home.

Btw, you do know gardai can and do set up checkpoints anywhere right? For lots of reasons?

Indeed but these are specifically for travel restrictions. They are calling them #OperationFanacht checkpoints. Even on the official Garda twitter account they have daily updates from these checkpoints.

It's really annoying to be stopped to be asked where you are going. None of their business quite frankly.

nc6000

bubblypop wrote: »

Btw, you do know gardai can and do set up checkpoints anywhere right? For lots of reasons?

How many of those reasons are to ask people where they are going?

Kivaro

I was confused on why we are still asked where we are going when we are abiding by the rules of travel within your county or 20 km beyond a border. And citizens information gives us this:
"A Garda can give you a fixed charge notice of €100 for travelling without a reasonable excuse."

So now we've gone from essential reason for being in your car to a reasonable excuse. I was not aware of that. There's a whole long list of "reasonable excuses" here. It's getting a bit weird now.

odyssey06

Kivaro wrote: »

I was confused on why we are still asked where we are going when we are abiding by the rules of travel within your county or 20 km beyond a border. And citizens information gives us this:
"A Garda can give you a fixed charge notice of €100 for travelling without a reasonable excuse."

So now we've gone from essential reason for being in your car to a reasonable excuse. I was not aware of that. There's a whole long list of "reasonable excuses" here. It's getting a bit weird now.

The 5km thing only ever applied to exercise...
You are still supposed to have a reason to leave the house.
You can now travel further for exercise or to meet someone outside socially - but not in a garden.
I guess taking the car for a spin or going to meet someone for a chat in their house is not a reasonable excuse.

Is that it?

namloc1980

odyssey06 wrote: »

The 5km thing only ever applied to exercise...
You are still supposed to have a reason to leave the house.
You can now travel further for exercise or to meet someone outside socially - but not in a garden.
I guess taking the car for a spin or going to meet someone for a chat in their house is not a reasonable excuse.

Is that it?

No you don't. This is incorrect. You only need a reasonable excuse if you're leaving your relevant travel area which is your county or 20km from home into neighboring countries

Kivaro

namloc1980 wrote: »

No you don't. This is incorrect. You only need a reasonable excuse if you're leaving your relevant travel area which is your county or 20km from home into neighboring countries

That's what I thought too. There needs to be clarification from the government. Why are they still stopping people and asking them where they are going within large cities like Dublin? The vast majority of people in this country have abided by the rules for over a year, and being questioned like this after the travel restrictions change on Monday is unfair and undeserving.

namloc1980

Kivaro wrote: »

That's what I thought too. There needs to be clarification from the government. Why are they still stopping people and asking them where they are going within large cities like Dublin? The vast majority of people in this country have abided by the rules for over a year, and being questioned like this after the travel restrictions change on Monday is unfair and undeserving.

Gardaí are just annoying people at this stage but the regulation is very clear. You can travel freely (supposedly) within your county or 20km from home into neighbouring countries. Only outside that area do you need a reasonable excuse.

elperello

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/public_health_measures_for_covid19.html

You can travel within your county or up to 20 km from your home.

User142

Its crystal clear in the legislation

An applicable person shall not, without reasonable excuse travel
outside his or her relevant travel area.

And relevant travel area is defined as...

“relevant travel area” means, in relation to a person, the geographical area
consisting of –
(a) the county in which the person’s place of residence is located,
and
(b) such parts of a county other than the county in which the
person’s place of residence is located, if any, that lie within a
radius of 20 kilometres from that place of residence;

You do not need an excuse to travel within your county period.

All contained within S.I. No. 168 of 2021 Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (COVID-19) Regulations 2021
Which you can download here - https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/1f150-view-statutory-instruments-related-to-the-covid-19-pandemic/

Kivaro

User142 wrote: »

Its crystal clear in the legislation



And relevant travel area is defined as...



You do not need an excuse to travel within your county period.

All contained within S.I. No. 168 of 2021 Health Act 1947 (Section 31A - Temporary Restrictions) (COVID-19) Regulations 2021
Which you can download here - https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/1f150-view-statutory-instruments-related-to-the-covid-19-pandemic/

Thank you. Seems very straight forward.
Then why are the Gardai stopping people and asking for the purpose of their journey? That question must now be inappropriate. No problem asking if we are traveling within our permitted area. But why ask where we are going? Unless there is an ulterior motive for asking about every single person's reason for traveling in car.

User142

Kivaro wrote: »

Thank you. Seems very straight forward.
Then why are the Gardai stopping people and asking for the purpose of their journey? That question must now be inappropriate. No problem asking if we are traveling within our permitted area. But why ask where we are going? Unless there is an ulterior motive for asking about every single person's reason for traveling in car.

Its well documented that the establishment purposefully blur the lines between what our legal responsibilities are and what are guidelines throughout the pandemic. This is to give the public the impression that they are more restricted than they legally are.


Here's an article from September on it.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-government-deliberately-blurred-line-between-coronavirus-law-and-advice-1.4350103

2 recent articles discussing it also - https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-covid-19-laws-and-guidance-an-unacceptable-blurring-of-lines-1.4535232

https://www.irishlegal.com/article/government-blurred-line-between-law-and-guidance-in-covid-19-response

nc6000

No Gardai harassment this morning on the school run. They must be reading this thread.

PatrickDoherty

Went by them on Baggot st a few times into the evening last night and they didnt bother getting out of their car, what a shambles having them sitting there.

MrMischief

PatrickDoherty wrote: »

Went by them on Baggot st a few times into the evening last night and they didnt bother getting out of their car, what a shambles having them sitting there.

I see them there every weekday - that checkpoint has been permanent for the last couple of months and is pretty much active during the day time. Apparently its also acting as a security blanket for the HSE due to a number of protests outside their building directly opposite. €€€€€€€€€

Kivaro

nc6000 wrote: »

No Gardai harassment this morning on the school run. They must be reading this thread.

Or maybe they realised that they may not have the legal grounds to ask law-abiding citizens where they are going if they are in their car and abiding by the current travel restrictions.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

Or maybe they realised that they may not have the legal grounds to ask law-abiding citizens where they are going if they are in their car and abiding by the current travel restrictions.

how do they know they are law abiding and abiding by restrictions if they don't ask?

Also, fyi, gardai may ask anyone anything in order to ascertain if a crime has been committed, as per the Judge's Rules.

Tenzor07

bubblypop wrote: »

how do they know they are law abiding and abiding by restrictions if they don't ask?

Also, fyi, gardai may ask anyone anything in order to ascertain if a crime has been committed, as per the Judge's Rules.

"Excuse me Sir/Madam are you law abiding today?"


There's a thing called reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed?

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

"Excuse me Sir/Madam are you law abiding today?"


There's a thing called reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed?

Not required to ask a question. The high court has similarly held that Gardai need not have a reasonable suspicion to stop a car at a checkpoint.

Tenzor07

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Not required to ask a question. The high court has similarly held that Gardai need not have a reasonable suspicion to stop a car at a checkpoint.

In normal times this should be the case that reasonable suspicion is required, though with Covid this has been suspended, but isn't it unconstitutional? Very dangerous to give a force of around 14000 people such wide ranging powers.

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

In normal times this should be the case that reasonable suspicion is required, though with Covid this has been suspended, but isn't it unconstitutional? Very dangerous to give a force of around 14000 people such wide ranging powers.

What are you waffling on about? You have just pulled that from a dark place.

The Judges rules predates our entire modern justice system and you are talking about Covid!

AGAIN, no Garda or indeed any person walking the planet requires any suspicion or legal authority to ask someone a question. So no, ita not 14000 people, its over 7 billion and you never noticed an issue before.

Tenzor07

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What are you waffling on about? You have just pulled that from a dark place.
The Judges rules predates our entire modern justice system and you are talking about Covid!
AGAIN, no Garda or indeed any person walking the planet requires any suspicion or legal authority to ask someone a question. So no, ita not 14000 people, its over 7 billion and you never noticed an issue before.

I'm talking about Police, they can ask a question, and get a reply "No comment"

Tenzor07

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I'm talking about Police, they can ask a question, and get a reply "No comment"

They can. as can every single other person on the planet. AGAIN

You misunderstand asking a question with making a demand.

Next time Im on the street and someone asks for directions, I will be sure to demand their powers to ask me a question.

Also, can you please explain what the hell you were talking about with your covid angle?

nc6000

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Next time Im on the street and someone asks for directions, I will be sure to demand their powers to ask me a question.

What if they had setup a checkpoint on the street and we're stopping everyone asking them for directions?

nc6000

nc6000 wrote: »

What if they had setup a checkpoint on the street and we're stopping everyone asking them for directions?

They would still be entitled to ask the question and people would still be free to not answer.