An Garda Síochána - COVID19

Acosta

Noo wrote: »

I love the ongoing comment..."this does not happen in any other country"...as if thats reinforcing his point. No shìt it doesnt happen in any other countries! Other countries have a bit more civil respect and dont start pissing and shìtting in the streets at the first sign of sunshine.

I see a lot of gob****es trying to defend this over the last day or two on social media. Of course there should be a lot more bins and outdoor toilets, especially this year with the ''outdoor summer'' we keep getting told about.
But I strongly doubt a few more bins would have made much of a difference when the place was left in that state.

I did plenty of bushing in my teens and early 20s and me nor anyone else around never left that place in that state. We'd at least gather our ****e up and put it in a bag next to a bin. And this was a time when there was very little talk about saving the planet compared to nowadays.

Amirani

conorhal wrote: »

I wish people would pick a lane, no wonder nothing ever gets done about a problem. Clearly enforcement is the issue, but when any enforcement action is taken people sperg out about 'The Man' ruining our fun. In Oireland, enforcement is always something that needs to be appied to the other guy.

Em, no. Gardaí should not be using stop and search powers on people on an evening walk down the canal. That's nothing about the man ruining anyone ones fun, it's an autocratic level of policing that is unacceptable in Ireland.

Legally Gardai are only allowed to search you if they believe you have committed a crime. Carrying alcohol in your backpack isn't a crime.

dotsman

Acosta wrote: »

I did plenty of bushing in my teens and early 20s and me nor anyone else around never left that place in that state. We'd at least gather our ****e up and put it in a bag next to a bin.

Yes, but is it not a case of "broken windows"? i.e. when there are no even attempts to provide bins/toilets, then there will be some litter/public urination etc, and once that starts, then everybody else says "feck it".

Acosta

dotsman wrote: »

Yes, but is it not a case of "broken windows"? i.e. when there are no even attempts to provide bins/toilets, then there will be some litter/public urination etc, and once that starts, then everybody else says "feck it".

I don't know about that. While there will always be a good few that won't care, in my experience there was always people around who would either tidy up their mess or take it away with them.
I'm not trying to absolve the council of blame either though. Clearly they should have been preparing for big crowds outdoors by providing more bins and bottle banks. But when you see the state of the place the morning after on the clip, I doubt many there on the night would have made the basic effort to dump their rubbish anyway even if there had been a load of bins there.

TomsOnTheRoof

Amirani wrote: »

Have heard from a few people over the past few days that the Gardai have stopped them and demanded to search their bags for alcohol etc. while they're just walking along the canals. This seems completely over the top and unreasonable.

The Public Order Act 1994 needs to be amended. It gives Gardaí far too much leeway in these kind of situations and inevitably leads to abuse of power. A big problem with this country is that people are far too compliant at times. I'm not advocating acting like a scumbag but if the past few years have show us anything it's that we need far greater accountability from AGS.

TomsOnTheRoof

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

The Public Order Act 1994 needs to be amended. It gives Gardaí far too much leeway in these kind of situations and inevitably leads to abuse of power. A big problem with this country is that people are far too compliant at times. I'm not advocating acting like a scumbag but if the past few years have show us anything it's that we need far greater accountability from AGS.

How can you be "too" compliant?


People with nothing to hide just want to get on with their day, so have no issue with AGS inconveniencing them temporarily.


The only people that ever tend to cause hassle are the ones who are either causing problems or the newer generation with the victim mentality.

Amirani

Deleted User wrote: »

How can you be "too" compliant?


People with nothing to hide just want to get on with their day, so have no issue with AGS inconveniencing them temporarily.

You must be living under a rock if you don't think widespread stop and search powers for police aren't problematic.

Lots of people have a lot of problem with police "inconveniencing" them (particularly minorities that get targeted constantly) by stopping and searching them at will.

TomsOnTheRoof

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How can you be "too" compliant?


People with nothing to hide just want to get on with their day, so have no issue with AGS inconveniencing them temporarily.


The only people that ever tend to cause hassle are the ones who are either causing problems or the newer generation with the victim mentality.

The idea that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear is absolute rubbish. Over the past ten years there have been a boatload of prominent examples of Garda overreach, including against innocent individuals. Look at the phone tapping for Christ's sake. Can I assume then that you have no issue with your private phone calls being recorded? This is exactly the kind of carry on I'm talking about. Why would any sane individual excuse this kind of behaviour?

nc6000

If I was walking along the canal going to or from work and a Garda asked to search my laptop backpack I wouldn't be too impressed.

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

How can you be "too" compliant?


People with nothing to hide just want to get on with their day, so have no issue with AGS inconveniencing them temporarily.


The only people that ever tend to cause hassle are the ones who are either causing problems or the newer generation with the victim mentality.

are you saying that you think gardai should act outside their powers granted them?

Mimon

dotsman wrote: »

Yes, but is it not a case of "broken windows"? i.e. when there are no even attempts to provide bins/toilets, then there will be some litter/public urination etc, and once that starts, then everybody else says "feck it".

So zero personal responsibility? We have a created a society where people need someone to clean their hole for them.

How about realising that you will end up having to piss/puke/sh!te outside someone's shop door and go with your friends somewhere else!

ShineOn7

It's ok DCC, you only had 15 months to sort this

Nothing like a pandemic to show a country for what it really is

"shure it'll be grand"

ShineOn7

And satire obviously

But it's hard to know sometimes in Ireland lol

https://twitter.com/MallowNews/status/1399303678943805440

TheFinanceGod

Quick input - I don't know if this is just my own experience but over the last six weeks I've witnessed a very dark turn in public perspective towards An Garda Siochana.

An increasingly number of people I talk to have developed strong disrespect, and might I say hate towards The Gardai since the easing of restrictions.

These tax-paying, adults have been treated like 14 Year Old Field Drinkers and it's not okay. Obeying lockdown restrictions, gathering in small groups on seafronts (bray), only to be threatened to have their alcohol "seized" and be told to move on.

What the hell happened to the respectful, down to earth police force of Ireland that was admired and respected by so many.

I've seen it first hand, and don't get me wrong, its not all Gardai of course, but an increasing number of them have gone on a COMPLETE power trip over the last four months and it's actually just got to stop before the lack of respect becomes irreversible.

They need to cop on.

tayto lover

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

The Public Order Act 1994 needs to be amended. It gives Gardaí far too much leeway in these kind of situations and inevitably leads to abuse of power. A big problem with this country is that people are far too compliant at times. I'm not advocating acting like a scumbag but if the past few years have show us anything it's that we need far greater accountability from AGS.

How does having “far too much leeway” lead to abuse of power?
I’d imagine that having no leeway at all would actually lead to abuse of power.
Also being compliant is the right thing to do.

JeffKenna

letigofrozen wrote: »

Gardai implementing those China style 5km checkpoint restrictions for months on end should be embarrased with themselves, especially for letting it go on so long, I was embarrased driving past them, it made them look like right eejits with nothing else to be doing.

When you were 18 years old and decided to join the Gardai, is that what you thought you end up doing lol, annoying people with that bull****.

If I had heard something in the media that they were unhappy to do those 5km checkpoints and didn't agree with them I would have some respect for them ,but it was deafening silence, sitting on the fence taking the money in a pretend lockdown.

Most people lost respect for the Gardai for that crap, it was ridiculous carry on.

I actually gained respect for them. They had their orders and followed them. Wasn't their fault the orders were absurd.

TomsOnTheRoof

tayto lover wrote: »

How does having “far too much leeway” lead to abuse of power?
I’d imagine that having no leeway at all would actually lead to abuse of power.
Also being compliant is the right thing to do.

The statutory provisions under the Act allow gardai to move people on for loitering, failure to comply is an offence. That is just one example. There have been instances in the past where gardai have attempted to use the Act to prevent people filming interactions. The Act also allows stop and searches where a garda has "reasonable" grounds for believing that an offence is being committed. The problem here is that reasonable should be construed using an objective test, as is the usual way, not the subjective beliefs of an individual garda as us too often the case.

As for compliance, yes people should be compliant but only so far as required by law. Furthermore, I'd like to think that a lot of people agree it's time for a reappraisal of the powers of AGS under acts such as the one mentioned above. We operate on the basis of policing by consent and it should remain as such.

Amirani

Amirani wrote: »

Lots of people have a lot of problem with police "inconveniencing" them (particularly minorities that get targeted constantly) by stopping and searching them at will.

Never hear of it happening to 'minorities' that aren't known to be problematic. Travellers are who I presume you're referring to?

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Can I assume then that you have no issue with your private phone calls being recorded?

None whatsoever.

ShineOn7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yKf1C3tejQ

The scenes of large crowds gathering over the weekend "looked like V-Day" celebrations, Dr Colm Henry says.

The HSE's Chief Clinical Officer says COVID-19 "doesn't surrender", and the pandemic is a "war" that still continues. He was speaking after large crowds gathered in the capital on Saturday evening, including around the South William Street and Temple Bar areas.

On Newstalk Breakfast, Dr Henry said it's understandable why some people feel the need for "some kind of release" as restrictions ease.

He said: "Younger people for the most part did their best to protect their older citizens. A huge acknowledgement is required by all of us to them… they’ve suffered from isolation and lost opportunities in life.

But some of the scenes looked like V-Day, as if the virus had surrendered. This virus doesn’t surrender. It exploits our weakest position - and our weakest position of course is those who are unvaccinated. It exploits congested gatherings, and certainly situations where there is alcohol.

This is not V-Day… it’s a longer war.”

aziz

JeffKenna wrote: »

I actually gained respect for them. They had their orders and followed them. Wasn't their fault the orders were absurd.

Ah yeah, the old “We were only following orders “ line

Noo

Acosta wrote: »

I see a lot of gob****es trying to defend this over the last day or two on social media. Of course there should be a lot more bins and outdoor toilets, especially this year with the ''outdoor summer'' we keep getting told about.
But I strongly doubt a few more bins would have made much of a difference when the place was left in that state.

I did plenty of bushing in my teens and early 20s and me nor anyone else around never left that place in that state. We'd at least gather our ****e up and put it in a bag next to a bin. And this was a time when there was very little talk about saving the planet compared to nowadays.

More bins would make no difference whatsoever. Look at japan, hardly any public bins, yet you could eat off the streets. Its not the councils fault, its not the guards fault, its societys attitude that this is seen as acceptable behaviour. Everyone must grab a bag of cans and get shìt faced and sunstroke, while simultaneously destroying their surroundings #bestsummaeva.

poisonated

Noo wrote: »

More bins would make no difference whatsoever. Look at japan, hardly any public bins, yet you could eat off the streets. Its not the councils fault, its not the guards fault, its societys attitude that this is seen as acceptable behaviour. Everyone must grab a bag of cans and get shìt faced and sunstroke, while simultaneously destroying their surroundings #bestsummaeva.

Load of nonsense. If there were bins, there would be a huge decrease in the amount of litter. Yes, there would still be some litter but that would be minimal. Yes, in an ideal world there wouldn’t be any. However, we need to be realistic. Not having enough bins isn’t helping anyone.

TheChizler

poisonated wrote: »

Load of nonsense. If there were bins, there would be a huge decrease in the amount of litter. Yes, there would still be some litter but that would be minimal. Yes, in an ideal world there wouldn’t be any. However, we need to be realistic. Not having enough bins isn’t helping anyone.

I think one of the pubs has put in big bins down on Kennedy Quay in Cork and its still a state every morning. You can see the outline of cars every morning next to KCs in Douglas where people have rolled down windows and dropped the rubbish out, in that case they had to go to even more effort to litter than to bring it away with them.

Tenzor07

Noo wrote: »

More bins would make no difference whatsoever. Look at japan, hardly any public bins, yet you could eat off the streets. Its not the councils fault, its not the guards fault, its societys attitude that this is seen as acceptable behaviour. Everyone must grab a bag of cans and get shìt faced and sunstroke, while simultaneously destroying their surroundings #bestsummaeva.

Japanese and European cultures could hardly be more different though could they?
Unless you think Irish society should be completely and utterly changed immediately then it's not a fair comparison...?

Tenzor07

poisonated wrote: »

Load of nonsense. If there were bins, there would be a huge decrease in the amount of litter. Yes, there would still be some litter but that would be minimal. Yes, in an ideal world there wouldn’t be any. However, we need to be realistic. Not having enough bins isn’t helping anyone.

The worse thing is that it's not like Councils didn't know this was happening and they were all given big cash grants by Government to prepare Bins, loos and extra staff... but they don't want to... shame the Lord Mayor's in cities like Dublin have no direct power to make councils look after the city streets.

Amirani

Noo wrote: »

More bins would make no difference whatsoever. Look at japan, hardly any public bins, yet you could eat off the streets. Its not the councils fault, its not the guards fault, its societys attitude that this is seen as acceptable behaviour. Everyone must grab a bag of cans and get shìt faced and sunstroke, while simultaneously destroying their surroundings #bestsummaeva.

"The way to solve the AIDS crises is for gay people to have more personal responsibility and stop having sex with unknown partners. Providing free condoms will only encourage them to have more sex."

This logic does not work. Panti and members of the gay community have been saying the past few days how the "logic" of Dublin City Council reminds them so much of the above. It's going to take a big culture change, perhaps generational, to change attitudes towards littering (if even possible). In the meantime, the powers that be should provide bins (condoms) to tackle the issue and reduce harm.

There's countless examples of this, not just the AIDS epidemic. Problem drug users are another common one. Berating people and suggesting they "take more personal responsibility" might make you feel good on your high horse, but it doesn't solve the problems.

Tenzor07

Amirani wrote: »

There's countless examples of this, not just the AIDS epidemic. Problem drug users are another common one. Berating people and suggesting they "take more personal responsibility" might make you feel good on your high horse, but it doesn't solve the problems.

Would we even be talking about this if King Tony had not come down from his Castle to see what was actually going on in the real world?
Though typically Irish, it takes someone with power to get anything done in this country...

Mimon

Amirani wrote: »

"The way to solve the AIDS crises is for gay people to have more personal responsibility and stop having sex with unknown partners. Providing free condoms will only encourage them to have more sex."

This logic does not work. Panti and members of the gay community have been saying the past few days how the "logic" of Dublin City Council reminds them so much of the above. It's going to take a big culture change, perhaps generational, to change attitudes towards littering (if even possible). In the meantime, the powers that be should provide bins (condoms) to tackle the issue and reduce harm.

There's countless examples of this, not just the AIDS epidemic. Problem drug users are another common one. Berating people and suggesting they "take more personal responsibility" might make you feel good on your high horse, but it doesn't solve the problems.

You are totally wrong. Other countries have no littering because people do take personal responsibility and they police eachother.

In terms of not being realistic, you hardly expect DCC to provide facilities to encourage large groups of people to gather during a pandemic?

Tallaght_Sale

JeffKenna wrote: »

I actually gained respect for them. They had their orders and followed them. Wasn't their fault the orders were absurd.

A few people in history have said the same thing.

I do think it is quite disappointing that they have done a good job but now risk alienating themselves even further than they have in the past few years.

Certainly the garda of today are fairly different from the past.

Amirani

Mimon wrote: »

You are totally wrong. Other countries have no littering because people do take personal responsibility and they police eachother.

And non-gay communities had less incidence of AIDS because they took "personal responsibility" and weren't as promiscuous. Great, but not very helpful, and does nothing to solve the problem.

Not everyone is going to have the same level of "personal responsibility", so as a society we can either sit back and finger wag (which doesn't work), or we can do something that might reduce the amount of litter on our streets.

https://twitter.com/PantiBliss/status/1398959790869647364

Mimon wrote: »

In terms of not being realistic, you hardly expect DCC to provide facilities to encourage large groups of people to gather during a pandemic?

"Let's all go hang out in that place because there's plenty of bins there". Happens all the time sure, would be crazy for DCC to contemplate.