Pay our Nurses/healthcare staff a decent wage

beolight

Just seen the post below on the main thread and taught this should be highlighted as the main thread is so busy it will be buried in no time

“Quote: c montgomery
St Patrick's Day Parade 2021

Dedicated to health care workers who walk the parade to ovations from the public who they protected in 2020.

Make it happen everyone”


You know what there’s a reason why so many Nurses and Doctors emigrate!
Forget about the Parade how about we just pay them a decent wage? No tiered increases phased over 3 year nonsense tied to work productivity or changes in work practice just a straight forward wage increase like the ones the Politicians award themselves.
Every Minister of Finance has resisted their wage demands over the years and any concessions are hard fought and Minuscule
I know the sight of all the politicians in the Dail giving them a round of applause last week was greeted with gritted teeth by most Nurses/Doctors/ healthcare staff

circadian

I've always believed that our healthcare staff and all emergency services staff deserve a healthy pay packet. They also deserve investment in the infrastructure they use instead of these things being gutted at the first opportunity.

The majority of the population rely on the health service, Gardai and fire service. If I need to call ont he help of these services do I want someone that is exhausted, underpaid and undervalued?

Jurgen Klopp

Well you can forget about it now once we get past this and the bill needs paying

facehugger99

The various unions, including those of nurses and healthcare staff need to brought to heel before any additional money is spent on salaries.

The restrictive and unproductive working practices that are rife with the HSE are the reason Irish taxpayers have one of the worst but most expensive healthcare systems in the developed world.

Despite the populist bolloxolgy in the OP, the last thing we should be doing is pumping more money (which we won't have anyway) into it without serious reform.

Rob A. Bank

facehugger99 wrote: »

The various unions, including those of nurses and healthcare staff need to brought to heel before any additional money is spent on salaries.

The restrictive and unproductive working practices that are rife with the HSE are the reason Irish taxpayers have one of the worst but most expensive healthcare systems in the developed world.

Despite the populist bolloxolgy in the OP, the last thing we should be doing is pumping more money (which we won't have anyway) into it without serious reform.

Complete right wing neoliberal nonsense.

And full of statistics you pulled out of your ass. Let's put the nurses and healthcare workers on zero hours contracts in order to keep you happy ?

The worst and most expensive healthcare system in the world is in the USA. And it will do very badly with the 'Covid-19 stress test' it is being subjected to at the moment. Privatization has failed at it's first real test.

ITman88

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Well you can forget about it now once we get past this and the bill needs paying

OP is gona need magic beans or Monopoly money to implement the pay rise!

Realistically the nurses do a fantastic job, and they are under pressure now, but a pay cut is much more likely due to the deficit.

Rob A. Bank

noodler

Our nurses are very well paid.

They had a separate pay deal only last year on top of the general PS pay deal and increments.

Rob A. Bank

ITman88

noodler wrote: »

Our nurses are very well paid.

They had a separate pay deal only last year on top of the general PS pay deal and increments.

How does it compare to the UK or European countries?

landofthetree

circadian wrote: »

I've always believed that our healthcare staff and all emergency services staff deserve a healthy pay packet. They also deserve investment in the infrastructure they use instead of these things being gutted at the first opportunity.

The majority of the population rely on the health service, Gardai and fire service. If I need to call ont he help of these services do I want someone that is exhausted, underpaid and undervalued?

Fair enough.

But you are going to have to tell us where the money is going to come from. Tell us what extra taxes you will introduce. (Water tax isn't an option.)

uptherebels

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Complete right wing neoliberal nonsense.

And full of statistics you pulled out of your ass. Let's put the nurses healthcare workers on zero hours contracts in order to keep you happy ?

The worst and most expensive healthcare system in the world is in the USA. And it will do very badly with the 'Covid-19 stress test' it is being subjected to at the moment. Privatization has failed at it's first real test.

Did you even read the post that you quoted?

Shefwedfan

People out clapping today

Few weeks, it will be back to the same old story, hospital full of drunk Irish people abusing the staff and thinking it acceptable

Complaining if they ask for pay rise and quoting they get paid xyz so they deserve nothing, plenty of threads on here if you look for them

It’s all about the moment, at the moment people need nurses etc so you have this fake clapping sh*t, few weeks they still need nurses but not as important so they threat them like dogs!!!!

Ace2007

beolight wrote: »

You know what there’s a reason why so many Nurses and Doctors emigrate!
Forget about the Parade how about we just pay them a decent wage? No tiered increases phased over 3 year nonsense tied to work productivity or changes in work practice just a straight forward wage increase like the ones the Politicians award themselves.
Every Minister of Finance has resisted their wage demands over the years and any concessions are hard fought and Minuscule
I know the sight of all the politicians in the Dail giving them a round of applause last week was greeted with gritted teeth by most Nurses/Doctors/ healthcare staff

It's not because the Minister of Finance's don't want to give it to them, it's because of the way the public sector pay is set up. If you give the healthcare workers say 15% salary increase - you will have every other PS work, train driver, bus driver etc all going on strike because they want more money - and no government can afford to have the country on it's knees with no transport - and no one able to get to work.

It's not right, but the Unions of these other sectors are as much to blame as the government.

You'll have teachers on strike, creche on strike etc, it's a vicious circle.

In addition, the government i would imagine would be happy to pay every healthcare worker an extra 10k per year, if they ceased accrual in their DB Pension Scheme. That is the crux of it - Private sector workers get paid more now, will no guarantee in the future, PS workers get paid less, with a guaranteed DB pension at retirement.

storker

Ace2007 wrote: »

It's not because the Minister of Finance's don't want to give it to them, it's because of the way the public sector pay is set up. If you give the healthcare workers say 15% salary increase - you will have every other PS work, train driver, bus driver etc all going on strike because they want more money - and no government can afford to have the country on it's knees with no transport - and no one able to get to work.

It's not right, but the Unions of these other sectors are as much to blame as the government.

You'll have teachers on strike, creche on strike etc, it's a vicious circle.

My wife is a nurse so I'm all for them getting a rise but I see the point about reform too and so would she. There are lots of antiquated work practices being clung to fo dear life and they have a recruitment process that appears to sacrifice the best result in the name of demonstrating "fairness" (and before someone jumps on that one I'm not talking about diversity). A bit like government procurement, which seems to be more about demonstrating that you followed the process than about actually getting quality or value for money.

Beasty

Moved from the Coronavirus forum

noodler

ITman88 wrote: »

How does it compare to the UK or European countries?

Very well.

ixoy

Anyone I've spoken to who works on the front line of the HSE says the whole administration side is a complete shambles and a very expensive one at that. When the health boards got joined up, the same roles still existed leading to too many cooks. Could the focus not begin here? You'd have some fight with the unions though if you were looking to force roles to become redundant because they're really not needed.

Padraig Mor

noodler wrote: »

Our nurses are very well paid.

They had a separate pay deal only last year on top of the general PS pay deal and increments.

ITman88 wrote: »

How does it compare to the UK or European countries?

Exactly. Most of Ireland's health care workers are well paid by international standards. Nurses in Ireland in particular are among the very best paid in the world, not that you'd know it from the continual beal bocht. Off the top of my head, the only group which may not be paid especially well compared to other western countries is doctors.

CalamariFritti

I don't think the health system is in the mess that it's in because of wages. The common theme appears to be massive admin overheads and paying over the odds for everything.

Also while I think they should be paid a decent wage and it's obviously an emotional topic right now I don't think they actually get paid poorly. They make it out like they have to flee the country 'cos they're kept on the breadline here but the reality is they get more out of college than many others and certainly more than many of their European peers.

Padraig Mor

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I don't think the health system is in the mess that it's in because of wages. The common theme appears to be massive admin overheads and paying over the odds for everything..

About 70/75% of Ireland's spending on health goes on wages - can't remember the exact figure.

CalamariFritti

Padraig Mor wrote: »

About 70/75% of Ireland's spending on health goes on wages - can't remember the exact figure.

Ye what I meant was nurse's wages, sorry.
With a big admin overhead that is to be expected. I'd say a lot of these admin roles aren't on small money either.

Edgware

ITman88 wrote: »

OP is gona need magic beans or Monopoly money to implement the pay rise!

Realistically the nurses do a fantastic job, and they are under pressure now, but a pay cut is much more likely due to the deficit.

Do we need nurses on maximum pay scales taking blood samples?
This crisis has shown the need for widescale reform. The nurses in A and E dealing with Friday night dirtbirds deserve double what they get but lets not lump all in together. Like every section of Civil and Public service there is scope for change

Ace2007

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I don't think the health system is in the mess that it's in because of wages. The common theme appears to be massive admin overheads and paying over the odds for everything.

Also while I think they should be paid a decent wage and it's obviously an emotional topic right now I don't think they actually get paid poorly. They make it out like they have to flee the country 'cos they're kept on the breadline here but the reality is they get more out of college than many others and certainly more than many of their European peers.

Good luck getting the unions to agree to redundancies in the PS.

Two private companies merge - everyone knows there will be people let go. Two sectors of PS merge - ah well we'll find work is the attitude.

na1

circadian wrote: »

I've always believed that our healthcare staff and all emergency services staff deserve a healthy pay packet. They also deserve investment in the infrastructure they use instead of these things being gutted at the first opportunity.

The majority of the population rely on the health service, Gardai and fire service. If I need to call ont he help of these services do I want someone that is exhausted, underpaid and undervalued?

I always thought that HSE budget is quite high in our country percentage-wise to the budget?
Its the way the money are distributed by HSE.

na1

ixoy wrote: »

Anyone I've spoken to who works on the front line of the HSE says the whole administration side is a complete shambles and a very expensive one at that. When the health boards got joined up, the same roles still existed leading to too many cooks. Could the focus not begin here? You'd have some fight with the unions though if you were looking to force roles to become redundant because they're really not needed.

I heard the story (from the staff) that the head of one of the private hospital has managed to occupy two full time jobs: getting paid 2 salaries, one from HSE and another one from the hospital

storker

na1 wrote: »

I heard the story (from the staff) that the head of one of the private hospital has managed to occupy two full time jobs: getting paid 2 salaries, one from HSE and another one from the hospital

There is a magical money tree. You just need the key to the garden.

mikhail

Ace2007 wrote: »

Good luck getting the unions to agree to redundancies in the PS.

Two private companies merge - everyone knows there will be people let go. Two sectors of PS merge - ah well we'll find work is the attitude.

They merged the health boards years ago. They could have retired off the whole surplus by now if there was a proper plan in place to do it.

gary550

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0209/1028490-nurses-pay/

Improve working conditions & staffing shortage - yes

But in my opinion, based on actual figures, nurses are not underpaid.

Edgware

storker wrote: »

There is a magical money tree. You just need the key to the garden.

I think it is called the trough, now available at Seanad Eireann

CrabRevolution

Nurses' pay is like the state pension. Ask anyone on the street if it should be raised, and they'll mostly say yes.

Then ask them what Nurses currently earn or what the weekly pension is, and you'll get very very few right answers from people who don't receive it themselves.

People always think nurses/pensioners/soldiers etc. are not getting paid enough, because the only people who talk about nurses/pensioners/soldiers pay are the people who receive that pay, and they've a big interest in creating the (right or wrong) impression that they are underpaid.

And I say this as a PS worker who'd benefit from any Nurses' pay increase because it would have a domino effect across the entire public sector with everyone demanding pay rises!