Pay our Nurses/healthcare staff a decent wage

gary550

gary550 wrote: »

Nurses go into the job open eyed on what is required of them and know what they will be payed for it. Comparing the public and private sector is pointless.

Our of curiosity what do you think is a fair wage for a nurse?

A fair wages would be in comparison to other careers. It's not a flat number.

I said so this in detail including showing a similar wage in the private sector but for an inferior job.

I'm sorry but I don't believe a manager in McDonald's should be on more money than a nurse.

And again I'm not having a pop at McDonald's staff, it just shouldn't be in the same category

shesty

shesty wrote: »

The real question is are we willing to put our hands in our pockets to fund this?Our health service problems are of our own making.We need a serious shift in our approach to health in this country but it will cost us more as taxpayers.

This is true. During the good times all we wanted was raises and tax cuts which I understand, I want more money in my pocket just like everyone else BUT we didn't follow sound practice. We should have serviced the national debt more, invested in public services, public facilities and long term plans.

Instead we became very expensive and saw money bleed out of the economy because we invested in foreign houses, went on lavish holidays, had people sending money home to poorer countries and jobs go abroad.

suicide_circus

but what about the doctors? and that guards? and the firefighters? and the teachers? and the ambulance medics? and the soldiers? and the customs officers? and the air corps? and the sailors? and the public representatives? oh wont someone think of the TDs??!!

thomasdylan

I don't think there'll be pay rises for anyone with the hit the economy is taking. At best there'll probably be pay freezes in the public sector.

It'd be great if the sections of the public sector who are having to work the hardest now would be shielded from any pay cuts. I'd prefer if the likes of nurses and hospital cleaners would be protected ahead of some civil servants, teachers, etc. It's not going to happen that way though.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

but what about the doctors? and that guards? and the firefighters? and the teachers? and the ambulance medics? and the soldiers? and the customs officers? and the air corps? and the sailors? and the public representatives? oh wont someone think of the TDs??!!

What's an 'ambulance medic'?

Idbatterim

JJJackal wrote: »

The point I am making is more will leave. We were lucky this time that alot of decided to come back to help. Will they come back again?

When there is a new pay cut as a result of the hole in public finances how will health care workers react after the sacrifices they will have made to keep us safe?

health care workers wont take a cut, I cant see it!

when are the luas drivers due their next increase? thieving a living when you look at the pay for the job that is done!

Geuze

thomasdylan wrote: »

I don't think there'll be pay rises for anyone with the hit the economy is taking. At best there'll probably be pay freezes in the public sector.

It'd be great if the sections of the public sector who are having to work the hardest now would be shielded from any pay cuts. I'd prefer if the likes of nurses and hospital cleaners would be protected ahead of some civil servants, teachers, etc. It's not going to happen that way though.

It has proven difficult over the years to give an increase to one group of PS, and not the rest.

The Benchmarking exercises were meant to deal with that.

blanch152

Geuze wrote: »

It has proven difficult over the years to give an increase to one group of PS, and not the rest.


The Benchmarking exercises were meant to deal with that.

Gardai, Army, Nurses, Doctors, healthcare staff, teachers, lecturers, prison officers, local authority staff, public servants redeployed Into the health service. They are all either going to work putting their lives at risk or going beyond their normal work, while many others sit at home safely. Why should they get a pay cut?

yesto24

blanch152 wrote: »

Gardai, Army, Nurses, Doctors, healthcare staff, teachers, lecturers, prison officers, local authority staff, public servants redeployed Into the health service. They are all either going to work putting their lives at risk or going beyond their normal work, while many others sit at home safely. Why should they get a pay cut?

Well if there is no money to pay them?
What then? What do you cut?
I pay enough taxes. If the government squander my taxes, and they have, they can **** off if they are going to try take more.

And still waiting for an answer to the question what is a fair pay for a nurse?

Geuze

blanch152 wrote: »

Gardai, Army, Nurses, Doctors, healthcare staff, teachers, lecturers, prison officers, local authority staff, public servants redeployed Into the health service. They are all either going to work putting their lives at risk or going beyond their normal work, while many others sit at home safely. Why should they get a pay cut?

Some hosps are more affected by COVID, others less.

How do you differentiate between the staff that are affected by COVID and others that aren't?

I know several lecturers, uni and IoT. None are involved in the health service. Is that happening?

Bass Reeves

We have a few long term problems in our health service. In a way our nurses are over qualified. We changed our train system about 15+ years ago from a hospital based training to university based training. It went from a 3 to 4 years course .

An Irish nurse is about the most qualified in the world. We have not adapted.our system because of that. Nurses themselves are part of the problem. They have failed (do not want) to removed lower grade work from there workload. However part of the problem is the pay links to other grades which will not allow Government to o crease pay.

Any that go abroad find that they are working in a completely different system abroad with lower patient/nurse ratio's and the stress involved is reduced because of this. More and more nurses that go abroad especially to places like Australia are becoming reluctant to come home.

The cost to train a nurse is huge and in the Irish system it is even more expensive as it s 4 year 3rd level course compared to a 3 year hospital based elsewhere. This has increase the cost not just to the state for training them but to the students as well. In hospital based systems trainee nurses receive a wage while training.

The cost of training nurses is second only to the cost of training a doctor. I saw figures a few years ago where an arts student cost about 12k to complete his course, a nurse costs 60-80k to train. Nurses in Australia are paid better than Irish nurses, NSW is the lowest paid area but other states are 10-15%higher than this. But where most really score better than here is the starting rate which is often 5+k better than Ireland.

How to resolve all this is the issue within the parameters of a health budget that is climbing in double figures every year. We are top heave with administration and consultants rule the system. As well as consultant's you have other health professionals who are paid better than the rate nurses are paid but there is way less of them

Mrs OBumble

Mitch Connor wrote: »

plenty of nurses do not have access to that.

Out patients, Day Wards etc - essentially 9-5 locations with no weekends, no bank holidays worked, etc.

Sure - and they aren't working the anti-social hours, 12 hour shifts, etc which leads people to say nurses are underpaid.

Mad_maxx

Why do so many compare wages here with that of Australia?

Australia is just about the highest wage economy in the world, it's not had a recession since 1993

Bass Reeves

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Why do so many compare wages here with that of Australia?

Australia is just about the highest wage economy in the world, it's not had a recession since 1993

Because that is where a lot of Irish nurses go to if they travel. Some also go to Canada and the wages there and the US are similar to Australia. Even those that go to the UK get promoted very fast so end up on similar money to Ireland

suicide_circus

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What's an 'ambulance medic'?

it's a cross between a dachshund and a toothbrush.

what do you think i could have meant by 'ambulance medic'?

Geuze

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Even those that go to the UK get promoted very fast so end up on similar money to Ireland

I've seen that in teaching also.

UK wages are low to start, but career progression seems faster?

RinusLaptop76

I've heard they are still working 12 hours a month for free to pay for the pensions of everyone after the financial bailout. Many would be more then happy getting that changed in being paid for the hours worked. Not more then fair seems to me.

Bass Reeves

Geuze wrote: »

I've seen that in teaching also.

UK wages are low to start, but career progression seems faster?

But as well because Irish Nurses are trained to a higher level than the UK, all come out with a degree level qualifications as opposed to a diploma I believe in the there career progress faster again than an UK trained nurse

thomasdylan

Geuze wrote: »

Some hosps are more affected by COVID, others less.

How do you differentiate between the staff that are affected by COVID and others that aren't?

I know several lecturers, uni and IoT. None are involved in the health service. Is that happening?

All hospitals are affected by COVID. EWTD (which has been largely ignored anyway) has been suspended.

PS jobs where you're able to work from home are obviously less affected than those jobs where you have to keep going in to hospital, etc.

mariaalice

Bass Reeves wrote: »

But as well because Irish Nurses are trained to a higher level than the UK, all come out with a degree level qualifications as opposed to a diploma I believe in the there career progress faster again than an UK trained nurse

Nearly all nrusing is degree level in the UK and has been for years although it is 3-year degree. There is a different culture through one of my daughters is a nurse in the UK, staying at band 5 would be unusual promotion is take for granted or some specialised role, a lot of band 5 grades would be from india or the Philippines.

Mad_maxx

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Because that is where a lot of Irish nurses go to if they travel. Some also go to Canada and the wages there and the US are similar to Australia. Even those that go to the UK get promoted very fast so end up on similar money to Ireland

how much college debt does a nurse in america begin with compared to one here ?

both nurses and doctors in ireland have a huge headstart in terms of how little they spent themselves in attaining their saleable skills , thats before one even considers that they often then take off to sunnier climes with said valuable skills

Mad_maxx

Bass Reeves wrote: »

But as well because Irish Nurses are trained to a higher level than the UK, all come out with a degree level qualifications as opposed to a diploma I believe in the there career progress faster again than an UK trained nurse

what does it matter as long as british nurses are able to perform the duties required ?

surplus to requirement qualifications are merely that

RinusLaptop76

noodler wrote: »

Our nurses are very well paid.

They had a separate pay deal only last year on top of the general PS pay deal and increments.

That was not given, backpay would have started last March 2019, allocation allowance has not been given, there was a 43 cents increase by the government. So what pay deal?

Geuze

RinusLaptop76 wrote: »

That was not given, backpay would have started last March 2019, allocation allowance has not been given, there was a 43 cents increase by the government. So what pay deal?

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0212/1029210-labour-court-nurses/

JJJackal

Mad_maxx wrote: »

how much college debt does a nurse in america begin with compared to one here ?

both nurses and doctors in ireland have a huge headstart in terms of how little they spent themselves in attaining their saleable skills , thats before one even considers that they often then take off to sunnier climes with said valuable skills

GEM students have circ 100,000 in debt from their second degree (aged >26/7 years on graduation)

Students who do undergrad medicine will likely have invested circ 20,000 (accommodation not included)

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

it's a cross between a dachshund and a toothbrush.

what do you think i could have meant by 'ambulance medic'?

I think you should know what you mean and use the correct term.

Are Gardai 'car coppers'? Nurses now 'hospital medics'?

RinusLaptop76

Geuze wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0212/1029210-labour-court-nurses/

That was the plan, however my wife hasn't seen anything of that on her paycheck, except the €0.43 raise.

Chiparus

Geuze wrote: »

https://igees.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/26.-Nursing-and-Midwifery-Expenditure.pdf

2018 Govt spending review of Nurses, prepared by IGEES

Finding 16:

16. International evidence suggest that nursing and midwifery remuneration in the Irish
Public Health system is high comparatively.

Compared to a new entrant nurse in the English NHS, a new entrant nurse in Ireland earns
21% more in basic pay based on current exchange rates. While allowances and
promotional opportunities differ across jurisdictions, a nurse at the top of the HSE staff
nurse scale would earn 39% more than a nurse at the top of the NHS England Band 5 scale.

More broadly, OECD nursing remuneration data show that, in purchasing power parity
terms, Irish nursing pay (including allowances and premium payments) between 2007 and
2017 was consistently on a par with Australia and higher than New Zealand, Canada and
the UK.

Why do Irish nurses leave to work in the NHS?

James Brown

The Nurses will be back to being dirt once this crises passes and FG no longer have to put on a show.

Chiparus

JJJackal wrote: »

GEM students have circ 100,000 in debt from their second degree (aged >26/7 years on graduation)

Students who do undergrad medicine will likely have invested circ 20,000 (accommodation not included)

Yep, they seem to think that housing , feeding and transport for 6 years as an undergraduate is free.
I would guesstimate , when you look at lost potential earnings , the cost of going to college for 6 years would be €180,000 -