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Pay our Nurses/healthcare staff a decent wage

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    #182
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    cms88 wrote: »
    What are you on about? Nurses are very quick to tell every how it's a caring professions but have no issues with going to the middle east where there are widely know and huge human rights violations

    But how dose being a careing profession have anything to do with going to the middle east? There's no connection.


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    #183
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭cms88


    mariaalice wrote: »
    But how dose being a careing profession have anything to do with going to the middle east? There's no connection.

    It was in the last post but i'll say it again. Counties in the Middle East with well know human rights violations are were the ''careing professions'' are going. I wonder why they would be?


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    #184
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Nursing hasn't been described or thought of as a calling in about 30 years althogh you do need a certain typer of personality for it.

    Its a profession, I also think there an underlying element of misogyny going on here as well, as its largley a female profession. Nobody would question QS or Civil engineer going to the middle east to work.


    Wow so now we have misogyny to blame for pointing out that nurses are paid very well. Hmm wonder whats left. As for the comparison to QS's/civil engineer I wonder what people would think if they shut down a hospital eh? Somehow only nurses seem to get off scot free for reneging on their agreed pay deal and screwing people out of approx 25,000 appointments.


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    #185
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    cms88 wrote: »
    It was in the last post but i'll say it again. Counties in the Middle East with well know human rights violations are were the ''careing professions'' are going. I wonder why they would be?

    I still do not get the connection to being a caring profession, shoud doctors or other allied health care profession not go to the middle east as well or is it only nurses?.



    For the record, I do not think Nurses are poorly paid my opnion is that in Ireland its not badly paid it middling but that is just my opinion.


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    #186
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    ITman88 wrote: »
    How does it compare to the UK or European countries?

    Like pretty much every other job in the country, Irish workers are paid better than their UK counterparts.
    Both in gross and net pay.

    Ireland is a high wage economy.


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    #187
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭cms88


    mariaalice wrote: »
    I still do not get the connection to being a caring profession, shoud doctors or other allied health care profession not go to the middle east as well or is it only nurses?.



    For the record, I do not think Nurses are poorly paid my opnion is that in Ireland its not badly paid it middling but that is just my opinion.

    We're not talking about doctors or anyone else here just nurses


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    #188
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    cms88 wrote: »
    It was in the last post but i'll say it again. Counties in the Middle East with well know human rights violations are were the ''careing professions'' are going. I wonder why they would be?

    I still do not get the connection to being a caring profession, shoud doctors or other allied health care profession not go to the middle east as well or is it only nurses?.



    For the record, I do not think Nurses are poorly paid my opnion is that in Ireland its not badly paid it middling but that is just my opinion.


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    #189
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    cms88 wrote: »
    It was in the last post but i'll say it again. Counties in the Middle East with well know human rights violations are were the ''careing professions'' are going. I wonder why they would be?

    No tax.
    Save for a house deposit.


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    #190
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    cms88 wrote: »
    We're not talking about doctors or anyone else here just nurses

    You are still not explaining why they are different, saying they are different because of careing nature of some of the work?


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    #191
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭cms88


    mariaalice wrote: »
    You are still not explaining why they are different, saying they are different because of careing nature of some of the work?

    How many times do you need to be told? Yes it's the same with doctoers but this topic is about nurses.

    Also as have already been stated a lot of the actual ''caring'' part of it isn't even done by nurse it's done by the HCA's


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    #192
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Anyway, a lot of the argument here, particularly from one poster, are of the foaming at the mouth with resentment type, another poster seems to have a confusing mishmash of ideas about caring.

    The misogyny might be unconscious but its there.


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    #193
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Rodin wrote: »
    Like pretty much every other job in the country, Irish workers are paid better than their UK counterparts.
    Both in gross and net pay.

    Ireland is a high wage economy.


    Saying this is void of context and understanding.



    Ireland is a high debt nation, caused almost singlehandledly at this stage by high pay and pensions within the public sector.


    The private sector workers are not over all that much compared to their European counterparts, but the public sector most definitely are.



    The public sector earn about 40% more an average that the people whose taxes pay them! However since tax revenue alone hasn't been able to afford their ever increasing salaries and gold plated pensions the govt has seen fit to simply borrow billions to pay them.



    Hence we are now heading north of 200Billion debt again


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    #194
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭cms88


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Anyway, a lot of the argument here, particularly from one poster, are of the foaming at the mouth with resentment type, another poster seems to have a confusing mishmash of ideas about caring.

    The misogyny might be unconscious but its there.

    So you don't agree with someone so it has to be misogyny :rolleyes:


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    #195
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Anyway, a lot of the argument here, particularly from one poster, are of the foaming at the mouth with resentment type, another poster seems to have a confusing mishmash of ideas about caring.

    The misogyny might be unconscious but its there.


    Unconscious misogyny eh. God knows what else the posters here are thinking consciously or subconsciously. Glad we have you to interpret valid criticism for what it really is.


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    #196
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    purifol0 wrote: »
    Saying this is void of context and understanding.



    Ireland is a high debt nation, caused almost singlehandledly at this stage by high pay and pensions within the public sector.


    The private sector workers are not over all that much compared to their European counterparts, but the public sector most definitely are.



    The public sector earn about 40% more an average that the people whose taxes pay them! However since tax revenue alone hasn't been able to afford their ever increasing salaries and gold plated pensions the govt has seen fit to simply borrow billions to pay them.



    Hence we are now heading north of 200Billion debt again

    The people whose taxes pay them?
    If the public sector are paid 40% more than private then they are paying more tax!

    Right now the public sector is paying the tax. Who's paying the 350 euro covid payment?


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    #197
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    cms88 wrote: »
    How many times do you need to be told? Yes it's the same with doctoers but this topic is about nurses.

    Also as have already been stated a lot of the actual ''caring'' part of it isn't even done by nurse it's done by the HCA's

    So if HCA's do the care work what has that to do with Nurses, the vast majority know that some posters seem to think it will be a revelation that HCA do a lot of the caring work other posters are acting on stereotypes. Thay have a very good union that is a lot of it really.


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    #198
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Anyway, a lot of the argument here, particularly from one poster, are of the foaming at the mouth with resentment type, another poster seems to have a confusing mishmash of ideas about caring.

    The misogyny might be unconscious but its there.

    That is chronicly feeble


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    #199
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 2,209 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    We'll be lucky if we can keep the lights on after this I'd say. Did we just spend 200 Mil on PPE alone compared to 15 mil per year usually.


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    #200
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 2,209 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    mariaalice wrote: »
    But how dose being a careing profession have anything to do with going to the middle east? There's no connection.

    Money,. Tax free?


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    #201
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    That is chronicly feeble

    No its not people are often unaware of their own motivation or they dress there motivation in noble ideas like saving the taxpayers money.

    The vast majority of nurses are not going around reflecting on their job and being caring they are just getting on with like everyone else.

    I am genuinely curious about this are nurses supposed to say they are humbly grateful for having a job in the HSE with reasonable good pay and conditions?


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    #202
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Rodin wrote: »
    The people whose taxes pay them?
    If the public sector are paid 40% more than private then they are paying more tax!

    Right now the public sector is paying the tax. Who's paying the 350 euro covid payment?


    By this logic we shuld just increase public sector pay and we'll all be minted!


    Of course to believe this you'd have to be either completely stupid, or a pubSec trade union spokesperson!


    Now Im going to take a risk and presume that you arent stupid enough to think that and are of course aware that the money that will be used for dole AND to pay for all the pubsec workers massive pay and pensions right now is coming from guess where....yeah we borrowed another 6 billion.



    Interest rate 0.25%


    https://kfmradio.com/news/10042020-1232/listen-finance-minister-says-today-good-friday-eu?qt-featured_stories=2


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    #203
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    purifol0 wrote: »
    By this logic we shuld just increase public sector pay and we'll all be minted!


    Of course to believe this you'd have to be either completely stupid, or a pubSec trade union spokesperson!


    Now Im going to take a risk and presume that you arent stupid enough to think that and are of course aware that the money that will be used for dole AND to pay for all the pubsec workers massive pay and pensions right now is coming from guess where....yeah we borrowed another 6 billion.



    Interest rate 0.25%


    https://kfmradio.com/news/10042020-1232/listen-finance-minister-says-today-good-friday-eu?qt-featured_stories=2

    No doubt the Christmas bonus will still go ahead.


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    #204
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 2,209 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    purifol0 wrote: »
    By this logic we shuld just increase public sector pay and we'll all be minted!


    Of course to believe this you'd have to be either completely stupid, or a pubSec trade union spokesperson!


    Now Im going to take a risk and presume that you arent stupid enough to think that and are of course aware that the money that will be used for dole AND to pay for all the pubsec workers massive pay and pensions right now is coming from guess where....yeah we borrowed another 6 billion.



    Interest rate 0.25%


    https://kfmradio.com/news/10042020-1232/listen-finance-minister-says-today-good-friday-eu?qt-featured_stories=2

    Yep as I thought makes as much sense as Kim Kardashian's arse.


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    #205
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    purifol0 wrote: »
    The public sector earn about 40% more an average that the people whose taxes pay them! However since tax revenue alone hasn't been able to afford their ever increasing salaries and gold plated pensions the govt has seen fit to simply borrow billions to pay them.

    You will be happy to hear that due to the paycuts during 2009-2012, the PS pay premium has been reduced.

    https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/publicprivatesectorpaydifferential/


    Now, it is true that lower paid PS are overpaid relative to private sector (think COs).

    But higher paid PS are underpaid relative to private sector.


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    #206
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,223 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    purifol0 wrote: »
    Let me get this straight you reckon taking home double and even triple the average industrial wage back in recessionary 2014 is nothing to write home about??? To many people that would be the opposite of "low paid".

    You're hand picking a dozen nurses and painting the other 28000 of them with the same brush.

    Pure begrudgery and a total lack of understanding of the range of nurse duties and responsibilities.

    Unless you put forward an intelligent argument you're not worth the effort.


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    #207
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    purifol0 wrote: »

    What about an international comparison...oh it looks like theyre doing pretty well there too huh. How are they low paid again?


    Nobody is claiming that nurses are low-paid.

    They are not low-paid.

    If the OP claimed this, then they are one of the many eejits on Boards.

    No PS in Ireland is underpaid.


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    #208
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    purifol0 wrote: »
    Let me get this straight you reckon taking home double and even triple the average industrial wage back in recessionary 2014 is nothing to write home about??? To many people that would be the opposite of "low paid".

    Average earnings in industry are 45k.

    Nobody is claiming that nurses are on double or triple 45k.


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    #209
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,409 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Nurses are reasonably well paid.

    People should note that the HSE has hired an additional 12,000 people 2015-2019.

    Quite a number of nurses in that figure.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/resources/our-workforce/workforce-reporting/health-service-employment-report-dec-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjtt8CSpt_oAhUVURUIHXHqCA8QFjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1cciJEdf6SoxWIui3e1GZ6

    Page 49-52 for the 2015-2019 sector breakdown.

    There is this view that we have vast numbers of people leaving the system but it is not true in the least.

    There are some pressures here and there, consultants and GPs for example, but the penny pinching narrative is false.


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    #210
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    mariaalice wrote: »
    No its not people are often unaware of their own motivation or they dress there motivation in noble ideas like saving the taxpayers money.

    The vast majority of nurses are not going around reflecting on their job and being caring they are just getting on with like everyone else.

    I am genuinely curious about this are nurses supposed to say they are humbly grateful for having a job in the HSE with reasonable good pay and conditions?

    Enough of the pseudo psychology


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    #211
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,554 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I think PS staff sitting in an office checking their watch to see when they can use their flexi-time to get out of there is a lot different to frontline public servants who work every second weekend, deal with the sick and undesirables and keep.our country safer.

    This thread is about our frontline workers not those sitting in an office. They deserve to be well paid.


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