Pay our Nurses/healthcare staff a decent wage

thomasdylan

purifol0 wrote: »

Rubbish argument and I dont appreciate the insult.


You can in fact put a price on labour, the private sector does it every single day. There is no shortage of labour when it comes to nurses in Ireland unless you reckon the 70,000 currently practicing ones are no enough. Rostering issues and weak government giving in to union demands is the reason Irelands PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICE is a mess. The private one works very well, and it does so without ridiculous vested interests like porters. .

There is a shortage of nurses in Ireland. They can't fill loads of jobs and the HSE relies on the overtime shifts worked by the nurses they can get to keep going.

Nurses have a globally in demand qualification, there's a worldwide shortage.

salonfire

thomasdylan wrote: »

There is a shortage of nurses in Ireland. They can't fill loads of jobs and the HSE relies on the overtime shifts worked by the nurses they can get to keep going.

Nurses have a globally in demand qualification, there's a worldwide shortage.

Then the obvious solution is to train more nurses, not pay the existing ones more!

God knows there will be plenty of young people at a loose end as the private sector suffers the 2nd once in a lifetime depression in ten years.

Mad_maxx

Rodin wrote: »

The people whose taxes pay them?
If the public sector are paid 40% more than private then they are paying more tax!

Right now the public sector is paying the tax. Who's paying the 350 euro covid payment?

You don't seem to understand how revenue works

Mad_maxx

thomasdylan wrote: »

There is a shortage of nurses in Ireland. They can't fill loads of jobs and the HSE relies on the overtime shifts worked by the nurses they can get to keep going.

Nurses have a globally in demand qualification, there's a worldwide shortage.

Actually there is no shortage, we have more per capita than most European countries, the problem is work structuring

mariaalice

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Actually there is no shortage, we have more per capita than most European countries, the problem is work structuring

Have you got a link for that? and saying there are x nurses in Ireland says nothing plus note it says world wide it may or may not be an Irish issue. Nurses and English speaking health care staff have a lot of choice in the world as regards work.

mariaalice

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/nursing-and-midwifery

There is a global shortage of health workers, in particular nurses and midwives, who represent more than 50% of the current shortage in health workers.

I suppose the WHO are making it up?

mariaalice

For all countries to reach Sustainable Development Goal 3 on health and well-being, WHO estimates that the world will need an additional 9 million nurses and midwives by the year 2030.

Nurses play a critical role in health promotion, disease prevention and delivering primary and community care. They provide care in emergency settings and will be key to the achievement of universal health coverage.

Achieving health for all will depend on there being sufficient numbers of well-trained and educated, regulated and well supported nurses and midwives, who receive pay and recognition commensurate with the services and quality of care that they provide.

Investing in nurses and midwives is good value for money. The report of the UN High Level Commission on Health Employment and Economic Growth concluded that investments in education and job creation in the health and social sectors result in a triple return of improved health outcomes, global health security, and inclusive economic growth.


Globally, 70% of the health and social workforce are women compared to 41% in all employment sectors. Nursing and midwifery occupations represent a significant share of the female workforce.

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/nursing-and-midwifery

weisses

cms88 wrote: »

It was in the last post but i'll say it again. Counties in the Middle East with well know human rights violations are were the ''careing professions'' are going. I wonder why they would be?

Sho working for the red cross is also a no no then. :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

Geuze wrote: »

AGAIN, AGAIN, for the hundreth time, TDs do not, and can not do this.

TDs have no control over their own pay.

This has been explained over and over.

Yeah right.

In the 1980s, TDs' pay was linked to the civil service HEO grade.

It's now linked to the PO grade - two whole grades higher and almost twice the money.

Padre_Pio

salonfire wrote: »

Then the obvious solution is to train more nurses, not pay the existing ones more!

God knows there will be plenty of young people at a loose end as the private sector suffers the 2nd once in a lifetime depression in ten years.

No one wants to do the job.
It's a vocation, for the work and conditions you can make more money easier in other professions.

Why do you think there are so many Asian and African healthcare workers in Irish and UK hospitals?
Why do you think Irish graduates consider leaving for other countries?

It's mad that in the same breath people want to reduce wages and also entice more people into the profession.

Also, to the poster that said we have the highest ratio, the ratio is calculated differently in other countries and even so, having the highest ratio doesn't mean we have enough.

thomasdylan

purifol0 wrote: »

Absolutely not the point. Tax payers deserve better than lies by the public servants they pay.


The Lie: Nurses claiming they are low paid
The truth: Not only are they better paid than most of the private sector, they also have the ability to rack up HUGE overtime, plus job security and DB pension.


The only way to stop public servants claiming that they are low paid is to see how much they are actually taking in. And they dont want us to know that....for obvious r€asons.



This is going to be a pretty hot topic when the lock down is over and the HSE bill comes up at the next budget. Mass unemployment means even the teachers have decided to quietly shut up about their recent strikes.

They can be better paid than the private sector because of overtime not because of the base salary. You seem to be struggling with the fact that to rack up huge overtime you need to work huge hours. Job security is there because there's a national and international shortage.

When this is over, we are going to see the same pattern we've seen in Italy and the UK. The young, fit people who die will largely be heallthcare workers. And your acopic bitter whining about PS pay and how hard you as a private sector worker have it will look even worse than it does now.

As I said, if you want to make what someone working a 80 hour week does, get a second job or work in a profession with a massive global skill shortage.

purifol0

purifol0 wrote: »

No I said the actual TOTAL amount that they get paid. Not the pay scale.
Lets have some shocking real world examples shall we:


www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/four-staff-nurses-earned-over-140000-last-year-229997.html


That was when the country was in the throws of recession so how about one from last Christmas:



http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/idm-10.jpg






Nurses are in fact raking it in much the same way as the Gards did it; via overtime and a plethora of "allowances". Payscales dont mean ****, total amount is all that matters.

So we should just not cover wards if there aren't enough staff?

YFlyer

Are the student nurses getting paid? One of my conspiracy theory nuts friends are saying they are not.

YFlyer

YFlyer wrote: »

Are the student nurses getting paid? One of my conspiracy theory nuts friends are saying they are not.

Yeah. They are getting paid. Think its a maximum of 14k a year. I've worked with many over the last couple of weeks and they are doing great work. Great value for 14k.

Studmuffin123

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah. They are getting paid. Think its a maximum of 14k a year. I've worked with many over the last couple of weeks and they are doing great work. Great value for 14k.

Only student nurses who are doing their 4th year internship which runs from Jan-Sept are getting paid. Pre-internship 4th years do not get paid and 1st to 3rd years do not get paid.

Hotblack Desiato

purifol0 wrote: »

Rubbish argument and I dont appreciate the insult.

There was no insult there, but you were happy enough to call another poster an ignoramus a few posts earlier. Talk about hypocrisy.

AndrewJRenko

Some actual facts on nursing recruitment and retention may be of interest;

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/4320/111218130214-4e7ee1edd2644dfab23a0a928643f6d9.pdf#page=1

Hotblack Desiato

purifol0 wrote: »

Ireland is a high debt nation, caused almost singlehandledly at this stage by high pay and pensions within the public sector.

Ridiculous

High welfare rates were the killer during the recession. Bertie kindly whacked up the OAP and dole just before the recession, not a very smart man. Public sector workers took a large hit, lifelong dolers didn't.

The public sector earn about 40% more an average that the people whose taxes pay them!

Apples and oranges.

A few posts back you seemed to think that some labourer with no Leaving Cert should get paid the same as a professional with 4+ years of degree level study.

A quick look at your post history and you literally post about nothing else except whinging about the public sector. A Russian bot would display more variety. Resentment is the name of the game here.

Chiparus

purifol0 wrote: »

Saying this is void of context and understanding.



Ireland is a high debt nation, caused almost singlehandledly at this stage by high pay and pensions within the public sector.






Hence we are now heading north of 200Billion debt again

Perhaps you want a US style private health service?
or a Hatian style private education system?

By the way the public service is not the cause of the debt, its the private sector gamblers.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/ellie-donnelly-bank-bailout-has-cost-the-irish-taxpayer-more-than-60bn-is-it-too-much-to-ask-for-a-face-at-the-counter-35921621.html

noodler

Chiparus wrote: »

Perhaps you want a US style private health service?
or a Hatian style private education system?

By the way the public service is not the cause of the debt, its the private sector gamblers.

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/ellie-donnelly-bank-bailout-has-cost-the-irish-taxpayer-more-than-60bn-is-it-too-much-to-ask-for-a-face-at-the-counter-35921621.html

It's mainly government spending on public services actually.

Only.about 40bn of the bank debt was put onto the national debt about 20bn from.NPRF as well)

The other 160bn is borrowing to fund the difference between what we earn in tax and what we spend between 2009-2018 (but mainly 2009-2015)

Studmuffin123

Studmuffin123 wrote: »

Only student nurses who are doing their 4th year internship which runs from Jan-Sept are getting paid. Pre-internship 4th years do not get paid and 1st to 3rd years do not get paid.

I thought 2nd and third year nurses were getting paid on the wards as they are essentially working as HCAs during this crisis.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0326/1126621-student-nurses/

Fred Cryton

noodler wrote: »

It's mainly government spending on public services actually.

Only.about 40bn of the bank debt was put onto the national debt about 20bn from.NPRF as well)

The other 160bn is borrowing to fund the difference between what we earn in tax and what we spend between 2009-2018 (but mainly 2009-2015)

Correct. We need to state this over and over again. Most of the government debt was caused by paying public sector workers more than the country could afford between '09 and '15.

YFlyer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah. They are getting paid. Think its a maximum of 14k a year. I've worked with many over the last couple of weeks and they are doing great work. Great value for 14k.

Thanks.

YFlyer

Studmuffin123 wrote: »

Only student nurses who are doing their 4th year internship which runs from Jan-Sept are getting paid. Pre-internship 4th years do not get paid and 1st to 3rd years do not get paid.

Are those nurses working on the coronavirus related frontline?

Idbatterim

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Correct. We need to state this over and over again. Most of the government debt was caused by paying public sector workers more than the country could afford between '09 and '15.

Listen the public sector workers, yeah some overpaid, underworked, ridiculous practices, but none of them are getting free house, not having to work, having everything paid for them , medical card etc. The welfare system here, is by far the biggest issue. Don't expect fg to change ot , they haven't in all the years they have had in power. More interested in if the wasters are ok , than the early risers !

iebamm2580

Idbatterim wrote: »

Listen the public sector workers, yeah some overpaid, underworked, ridiculous practices, but none of them are getting free house, not having to work, having everything paid for them , medical card etc. The welfare system here, is by far the biggest issue. Don't expect fg to change ot , they haven't in all the years they have had in power. More interested in if the wasters are ok , than the early risers !

Yeah sinn fein will sort it all, im sure.

Bass Reeves

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I thought 2nd and third year nurses were getting paid on the wards as they are essentially working as HCAs during this crisis.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0326/1126621-student-nurses/

Normally only nurses on final year internship get paid. But I think some trainee nurses that are on the wards are getting paid the HCA rate army present..

There is a good reason for this. Any that are on the wards had to give up there part time jobs or not do there block release on this phase . The reason for this is there was too much risk 😂 f they did the two as normal they would spread the infection. Theu were not entitled to the COVID payment because of this.

Fred Cryton

Idbatterim wrote: »

Listen the public sector workers, yeah some overpaid, underworked, ridiculous practices, but none of them are getting free house, not having to work, having everything paid for them , medical card etc. The welfare system here, is by far the biggest issue. Don't expect fg to change ot , they haven't in all the years they have had in power. More interested in if the wasters are ok , than the early risers !

Yep fair point, we also mainitained a bloated and unaffordable welfare state which added to the debt.



But, public sector pay was far out of line with comparable countries and what the nation could afford at the time, let's be honest.

noodler

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Correct. We need to state this over and over again. Most of the government debt was caused by paying public sector workers more than the country could afford between '09 and '15.

Well....and roads, schools, welfare, pensions, public transport.

AllForIt

Socialists are going mental these days.

If health care weren't free at the point of use they might get paid a bit more.

But if your're happy to pay more in taxes then sure, give them a pay rise.