Alleged sexual harassment

Grab All Association

One of the people I follow on Twitter retweet’s this

https://twitter.com/emma_curran2104/status/1245412523937054722?s=21

It’s only one side to the story but as usual everybody on there is taking it as the absolute truth. No production of the alleged email or any indication that a complaint was made to An Garda Síochána about the alleged behaviour. Other than posting people’s names online and then taking them down. I’m not buying this at all. If NUIM really did send her an email then they were probably right.

It’s the responsibility of An Garda Síochána to investigate and the state to convict/absolve people of crimes, not mobs on Twitter.

Grab All Association

Grab All Association wrote: »

It’s the responsibility of An Garda Síochána to investigate and the state to convict/absolve people of crimes, not mobs on Twitter.

Exactly right.

razorblunt

Is that McCabe's alt account?

B.A._Baracus

Anyone can say anything online and there's an awful lot of bull****ters in this world. So go figure.

On a sidenote, I see she has the whole "she/her" gender identifying bit on her Twitter bio. Honestly when I see that, especially young people, I do raise an eyebrow. I wouldn't be surprised to hear if anyone glanced at her shed consider that sexual harassment :pac:

Only my two cents.

SEPT 23 1989

Can we have a bit of background to this

Cee-Jay-Cee

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Anyone can say anything online and there's an awful lot of bull****ters in this world. So go figure.

On a sidenote, I see she has the whole "she/her" gender identifying bit on her Twitter bio. Honestly when I see that, especially young people, I do raise an eyebrow. I wouldn't be surprised to hear if anyone glanced at her shed consider that sexual harassment :pac:

Only my two cents.

Yeah she’s one of the snowflake generation that looks for offence in everything. Thinks the world owes her something yet has contributed nothing to it herself.

She should be told to GFY we have more important things to be worried about right now but come back in a few years time and someone might care (but doubtful)

EmmetSpiceland

Jesus, lads, hold off on your “condemnations”.

This thread could be shipped over to the “Current Affairs” forum at some point and if it turns out her, alleged, attacker is black, brown, muslim or, better yet, an “asylum seeker” who’s had appeal after appeal rejected, you’ll regret jumping in so fast.

Obviously, if it turns out it was just an, ordinary, Irish, or white foreign, student you can go back to casting “aspersions” on this girl, women in general, and millennials as a whole.

Sometimes it’s better to just hold the dogs back, lads, you might just get the “reward” you’re after.

Stateofyou

Wow, sexual harassment has never happened on a university campus before! It's not like they're known to be rife with this sort of thing and is actually a huge problem or anything...why would she be believed, I mean it's common place and false allegations are actually statistically rare, but you know, allegedly this happened... Sure she just wanted to start trouble and bring on huge stress in her life during an already very stressful time, just for the fun... :rolleyes:

Colleges wouldn't want to be known for their campus' being unsafe, so they have an interest right there in keeping it quiet. Since when do Guards investigate sexual harassment? As far as I know schools will have policy's to deal with students and misconduct, guards are there for serious crimes. Anyone who was sexually harassed or assaulted has a right to speak up about it. Why do you care so much, OP? Does women speaking up worry you? Do you have more sympathy for abusers and/or condoners being named and shamed than you do victims?

Sexual harassment is not a crime.
Why would Gardai be involved?

It's up to the workplace, university etc to investigate a claim of sexual harassment

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly right.

Exactly wrong

Quantum Erasure

"I’m terribly sorry for disappointing you but I was sexually harassed, harassed, blackmailed, and manipulated: I’m not shutting up about it. (5/5)"

...still none the wiser as to what actually happened

Quantum Erasure

bubblypop wrote: »

It’s the responsibility of An Garda Síochána to investigate and the state to convict/absolve people of crimes, not mobs on Twitter.

Exactly wrong

so, it's mob justice on twitter so?

Quantum Erasure

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

so, it's mob justice on twitter so?

No.
But Gardai investigate crimes. & there are plenty of crimes to investigate.
Sexual harassment is not a crime

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Jesus, lads, hold off on your “condemnations”.

This thread could be shipped over to the “Current Affairs” forum at some point and if it turns out her, alleged, attacker is black, brown, muslim or, better yet, an “asylum seeker” who’s had appeal after appeal rejected, you’ll regret jumping in so fast.

Obviously, if it turns out it was just an, ordinary, Irish, or white foreign, student you can go back to casting “aspersions” on this girl, women in general, and millennials as a whole.

Sometimes it’s better to just hold the dogs back, lads, you might just get the “reward” you’re after.

Shoehorning in some social justice "virtue signalling" there. Impressive, if not utterly predictable.

Stateofyou

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

so, it's mob justice on twitter so?

She's made a decision to speak up. Where would you prefer she do that, on a street corner for the 2 people passing by? Millions of people have spoken up on social media about their harassment/assault experiences. People speaking up and not tolerating sh*t being swept under a rug is what is finally changing things in that regard in society for the better. Maybe the school will cop on and deal with it properly in future instead of victim shaming. The end result will be a more comfortable and safer campus for students.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

She's made a decision to speak up. Where would you prefer she do that, on a street corner for the 2 people passing by? Millions of people have spoken up on social media about their harassment/assault experiences. People speaking up and not tolerating sh*t being swept under a rug is what is finally changing things in that regard in society for the better. Maybe the school will cop on and deal with it properly in future instead of victim shaming. The end result will be a more comfortable and safer campus for students.

Victim shaming? Jesus. Is that what you think this is?

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Victim shaming? Jesus. Is that what you think this is?

The school's email, yes.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

The school's email, yes.

Oh did you read it? Will you send me a link to it? I looked for it on her Twitter but couldn't see it. I just saw her response to them, not the actual email.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh did you read it? Will you send me a link to it? I looked for it on her Twitter but couldn't see it. I just saw her response to them, not the actual email.

So- she made up the email and the direct quote, for what, for fun?
And she made this up too?
"Since then I had spoken with people in
@MaynoothUni
and I was told that this was all essentially MY fault;"

No one has to bring the receipts of their experience to you or anyone else. Sexual harassment and assault and that shaming of those who speak up happens with or without proof. I'll go with the standard, on the balance of probabilities, it happened, for 500 euros Bob.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

So- she made up the email and the direct quote, for what, for fun?
And she made this up too?
"Since then I had spoken with people in
@MaynoothUni
and I was told that this was all essentially MY fault;"

No one has to bring the receipts of their experience to you or anyone else. Sexual harassment and assault and that shaming of those who speak up happens with or without proof. I'll go with the standard, on the balance of probabilities, it happened, for 500 euros Bob.

Ah right ok.

I wasn't looking for her receipt. I was just looking for evidence. It's odd she would publish her response to the email and not the email itself.

It's not shaming to not believe an accusation without proof.

But if she sees herself as a victim, I guess that's good enough for you. Your opinion is as valid as mine.

Im not saying she is lying but I also wouldn't be so quick to accuse any person or entity of victim shaming without proof.

I'll go with the standard, it's not shaming someone to not automatically believe their claims, for 500 Bob.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah right ok.

I wasn't looking for her receipt. I was just looking for evidence. It's odd she would publish her response to the email and not the email itself.

It's not shaming to not believe an accusation without proof.

But if she sees herself as a victim, I guess that's good enough for you. Your opinion is as valid as mine.

Im not saying she is lying but I also wouldn't be so quick to accuse any person or entity of victim shaming without proof.

I'll go with the standard, it's not shaming someone to not automatically believe their claims, for 500 Bob.

Receipt = evidence in my example. And yeah, that's what you were looking for. It's not odd for anyone to speak up and in doing so to summarise, paraphrase, leave out every detail, etc. Jesus...

I did not say that it was shaming to not believe an accusation without proof. I said that the school's treatment of her is shaming.

Yeah, if she speaks up about her experience which is brave to do in that circumstance, and tags her own university, I am going to believe it. See my previous post where I said statistically false allegations are rare. Universities, schools and workplaces are rife with this behaviour. Victim shaming is a very typical response. That is the society that we've all been living in for a very long time. This isn't news to anyone.

hatrickpatrick

|NUIM| 20 she/her

'Nuff said

Raconteuse

I usually despise when people are dismissed if they say they were sexually harassed. I also despair of the way it has become fashionable to be suspicious of women in this regard, due to the false allegations that it's claimed are going on morning, noon and night... however I also object hugely to using social media to point fingers, and to damage an organisation's reputation. I find it highly dubious that NUIM would have said they were disappointed with the woman. Show the email then.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Receipt = evidence in my example. And yeah, that's what you were looking for. It's not odd for anyone to speak up and in doing so to summarise, paraphrase, leave out every detail, etc. Jesus...

I did not say that it was shaming to not believe an accusation without proof. I said that the school's treatment of her is shaming.

Yeah, if she speaks up about her experience which is brave to do in that circumstance, and tags her own university, I am going to believe it. See my previous post where I said statistically false allegations are rare. Universities, schools and workplaces are rife with this behaviour. Victim shaming is a very typical response. That is the society that we've all been living in for a very long time. This isn't news to anyone.

No.

In this circumstance, this girl has taken to Twitter to accuse a university of something. She has not backed up her allegation but has instead put up her response to the email she said was received.

She doesn't have to. It would make sense to though. She obviously does not want to remain quiet about it and if her allegations are true, I don't blame her.

In this case, it isn't unreasonable to expect to see the letter so we can see clearly what was said especially if she is going to bandy around accusations and publish her rebuttal.

But to call someone brave like you did is to believe someone wholesale based on nothing but their perceived victimhood. Victim creating is as rife as victim shaming. Neither is a good look.

And as for this being the society we live in, please don't tell me you are one of those who think we live in a rape culture!?

hatrickpatrick

https://twitter.com/cinderelliexox/status/1232045094712303616

https://twitter.com/Emma_Curran2104/status/1232047281983152128

The deleted tweet containing the allegations was originally in between these two tweets in the thread.

Sounds very much like this is about lads (a) looking at women and (b) talking privately with other lads about women. Neither of these things should be grounds for penalty. People have private conversations which veer into rude territory about other people all the time, it's just how people are - and there is not a gender exclusivity about that, either. Talking about and rating other peoples' looks is something both genders do in groups literally all the time. In another tweet she mentions that someone took a creepshot of her - that's absolutely a fair thing to be angry about and something which absolutely should be dealt with by college authorities, but looking at someone sexually or making sexual remarks about them to others? That's life and there's nothing wrong with it.

Maybe I'm alone here but if I found out that a group of women or gay lads in a group chat were discussing whether or not I was sexy and what my best or worst features were, apart from being surprised at getting that kind of attention it wouldn't upset me, because people are people and expecting people not to look at other people sexually when it's one of the main things people think about every day is just bizarre.

Raconteuse

Grading looks is ****ing pathetic though. I've never ever done it.

But jeez people's private conversations cannot be policed.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

https://twitter.com/cinderelliexox/status/1232045094712303616

https://twitter.com/Emma_Curran2104/status/1232047281983152128

The deleted tweet containing the allegations was originally in between these two tweets in the thread.

Sounds very much like this is about lads (a) looking at women and (b) talking privately with other lads about women. Neither of these things should be grounds for penalty. People have private conversations which veer into rude territory about other people all the time, it's just how people are - and there is not a gender exclusivity about that, either. Talking about and rating other peoples' looks is something both genders do in groups literally all the time. In another tweet she mentions that someone took a creepshot of her - that's absolutely a fair thing to be angry about and something which absolutely should be dealt with by college authorities, but looking at someone sexually or making sexual remarks about them to others? That's life and there's nothing wrong with it.

Maybe I'm alone here but if I found out that a group of women or gay lads in a group chat were discussing whether or not I was sexy and what my best or worst features were, apart from being surprised at getting that kind of attention it wouldn't upset me, because people are people and expecting people not to look at other people sexually when it's one of the main things people think about every day is just bizarre.

If, and it's a big if, this is the extent of her allegations, it's ridiculous.

She has no right to police whether or not people find her attractive or not, or whether people look at her or talk about her to other people.

hatrickpatrick

Raconteuse wrote: »

Grading looks is ****ing pathetic though. I've never ever done it.

But jeez people's private conversations cannot be policed.

I agree it's pathetic, but it happens in the vast majority of groups of people who group themselves gender-exclusively. And as you say, a private conversation is a private conversation - unless the conversation contains evidence of an actual criminal offence, friends should have carte blanche to say whatever they want in private to one another.

hatrickpatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

If, and it's a big if, this is the extent of her allegations, it's ridiculous.

She has no right to police whether or not people find her attractive or not, or whether people look at her or talk about her to other people.

If there's more to it and an actual assault took place, I agree entirely. But my reading of the thread and the other tweets in reply to both of those is that this is about things people said and not things people did.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

No.

In this circumstance, this girl has taken to Twitter to accuse a university of something. She has not backed up her allegation but has instead put up her response to the email she said was received.

She doesn't have to. It would make sense to though. She obviously does not want to remain quiet about it and if her allegations are true, I don't blame her.

In this case, it isn't unreasonable to expect to see the letter so we can see clearly what was said especially if she is going to bandy around accusations and publish her rebuttal.

But to call someone brave like you did is to believe someone wholesale based on nothing but their perceived victimhood. Victim creating is as rife as victim shaming. Neither is a good look.

And as for this being the society we live in, please don't tell me you are one of those who think we live in a rape culture!?

She may post the email at another time, but speaking up about the email and tagging her University, again, that's not going to be a lie someone does for no reason at all. If you look at that thread, there are comments from others about similar/worse experiences at University. I hope I'm saying this for the last time - false accusations are statistically rare, and this type of behaviour and response are rife and typical.
It is brave to speak up, and it's brave to do so against other's in positions of power such as their university. If she is speaking up about her experience, then it's not a perceived anything. Only to you it is.
I literally laughed at your last sentence there! So a global movement (metoo) isn't literally proof that we live in a society in which certain behaviours have been going on, excused, and literally slapped on the hand by the justice system and wider society, if at all? Okaaaay....

Stateofyou

Raconteuse wrote: »

I usually despise when people are dismissed if they say they were sexually harassed. I also despair of the way it has become fashionable to be suspicious of women in this regard, due to the false allegations that it's claimed are going on morning, noon and night... however I also object hugely to using social media to point fingers, and to damage an organisation's reputation. I find it highly dubious that NUIM would have said they were disappointed with the woman. Show the email then.

So that's a pretty big contradiction there, is it not? You say you despise people being dismissive and suspicious of women in this regard, then you go on to say you find it highly dubious that NUIM would have sent that email/said what they did, and looked for the proof. Why would you find it highly dubious? Is that not being dismissive and suspicious?