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Alleged sexual harassment

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    #62
    Ulysses Gaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    Brock Turner. Rape is absolutely accepted. In Ireland, the culture of harassment/assault absolutely exists. Most employers now have Dignity at workplace policies for that reason, and legislation has come in to give legal recourse. There was recently a girl who was sexually assaulted and murdered by Boy A and Boy B, remember that? I read a post on here not too long ago full of posters here in Ireland saying every single woman friend/relative they know has experienced sexual harassment and or assault in their lives. Many perpetrators never have any real consequences. The CSO has the statistics anyone with google can review, and we all know that most cases go unreported or reported many years later, because victims don't feel safe or able to speak up. Because when they do, the typical responses of shaming and blaming and physical harm are the consequences.

    A US case where the judgement made by a clown of a judge was universally, and rightly, vilified does not evidence of a rape culture make.

    And cannot be applied as evidence that Ireland has an accepted Rape culture.


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    #63
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I have not seen the post but we are over the top with "political correctness" in this Country.
    I see in other Countries the differences are celebrated with banter, here its just crazy.
    Then if there is a problem it should be looked into.
    Just like Alex Salmond and Paddy Jackson and

    "let the chips fall where they may"


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this case, it's awfully boring and often unpleasant talking to many Irish women now. Every word and phrase scanned for a hint of sexual innuendo, real or imagined. Like you are just dying to be raping them or something. Then they will go on about some guys ass or how good the 50 shades sequel was without a hint of self awareness.

    If I get a hint of any of that attitude I avoid like the plague unless it's absolutely necessary for work.


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I have not seen the post but we are over the top with "political correctness" in this Country.
    I see in other Countries the differences are celebrated with banter, here its just crazy.
    Then if there is a problem it should be looked into.
    Just like Alex Salmond and Paddy Jackson and

    "let the chips fall where they may"

    In fact, the prevalent attitude (online anyway) is that Paddy Jackson isn't innocent, just not guilty. A reputation and career severely damaged for a crime he is not guilty of.


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    From the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission..


    Under the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015, sexual harassment and harassment of an employee (including agency workers and trainees) in the workplace are against the law. This includes sexual harassment and harassment by:

    co-workers
    the employer
    clients, customers or other business contacts of the employer, including anyone the employer could reasonably expect the worker to come into contact with.

    There are lots of laws, doesn't mean that it is a crime to break them.
    Sexual harassment may be against some workplace law but it is nothing to do with gardai.


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    #67
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,749 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I'd read through most of this thread. Got snippets of info in different places. Can someone please summarize who this person is and what is supposed to have happened in NUIM?


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    #68
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In fact, the prevalent attitude (online anyway) is that Paddy Jackson isn't innocent, just not guilty. A reputation and career severely damaged for a crime he is not guilty of.


    not at all, what gave you that idea...


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    #69
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    bigpink wrote: »
    Whats all this he/she us/them all these young irish tweeters have in their bios

    It's imported American progressive ****, the idea being to show how Liberal and moral you are. Basically what's seem to become known as virtue signalling.


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    #70
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    bubblypop wrote: »
    There are lots of laws, doesn't mean that it is a crime to break them.
    Sexual harassment may be against some workplace law but it is nothing to do with gardai.


    "segregation" in the workplace probably be the best idea??
    That way the girls could bitch and we could talk about their backsides and everyone be happy.


    I am also curious as to what this is all about, if it's a secret its likely false...


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    #71
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    A US case where the judgement made by a clown of a judge was universally, and rightly, vilified does not evidence of a rape culture make.

    And cannot be applied as evidence that Ireland has an accepted Rape culture.

    The judge got recalled as far as I can recall. If anything the Brick Turner case is an example of how we don't live in a rape culture. Two people saw and stopped the crime and held turner down until the police came. Hardly something to happen if rape was so widely accepted.


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    #72
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    The petition doesn't clarify things either.
    https://www.change.org/p/maynooth-university-maynooth-university-we-demand-you-change-how-you-deal-with-sexual-harassment-sexism

    Could it be tied into her election as Senator for Maynooth Student Union?
    https://www.msu.ie/voice/elections/senateelections/
    I’m a 20 year old Politics and Anthropology student, currently in my Second Year. I’m running as an Independent Senator candidate to combat sexism and sexual harassment/ assault on campus. Little is currently being done to stop this and I want to make a difference.


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    #73
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this case, it's awfully boring and often unpleasant talking to many Irish women now. Every word and phrase scanned for a hint of sexual innuendo, real or imagined. Like you are just dying to be raping them or something. Then they will go on about some guys ass or how good the 50 shades sequel was without a hint of self awareness.

    If I get a hint of any of that attitude I avoid like the plague unless it's absolutely necessary for work.


    DISCLAIMER : May never have actually happened.
    biko wrote: »
    The petition doesn't clarify things either.
    https://www.change.org/p/maynooth-university-maynooth-university-we-demand-you-change-how-you-deal-with-sexual-harassment-sexism

    Could it be tied into her election as Senator for Maynooth Student Union?
    https://www.msu.ie/voice/elections/senateelections/

    No idea about the rights and wrongs of her case (none of us do tbf there's zero information at present) but the Seanad university election this year was rammed with candidates like this.


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    #74
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    If the extent of her allegations are some lad staring at a girls ass. And she posts names accusing them of sexual harassment, they would want to be onto legal advice very quickly to stop her from destroying their careers and possibly lives.


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    #75
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    This sexual Harassment seems to be more an Irish and and Americian thing,
    there is a bit of it in the UK but its not everyday news like in this country.
    I have friends who live abroad and i never hear any of the stuff i here when i am there.
    A 20 year old activist, if thats the world we created for our children, God help us....


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    #76
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Raconteuse wrote: »
    Grading looks is ****ing pathetic though. I've never ever done it.

    But jeez people's private conversations cannot be policed.

    I 100% guarantee there is no group specifically for grading a girls looks in their WhatsApp, theres probably a lads chat and one of them sent a tinder screenshot and some mates replied 'well done'


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    #77
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm not. Kinda. There's a lot of pressure on universities to provide safe environments, and many universities are trying to follow the US style of policing students regarding behavior in any way related to harassment. Evidence isn't entirely needed with many faculties (who may be connected to this person), so there could be internal pressure to police students.

    At the same time though, I can't believe that they would put it into an email. A phone call, or a personal visit? Sure.. but an email is so impersonal. :D
    That's my point. This alleged email is the opposite to the above - she says they told her they are disappointed with her that she is making such allegations. Sure they did.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Whatever about the rights and wrongs of this case, it's awfully boring and often unpleasant talking to many Irish women now. Every word and phrase scanned for a hint of sexual innuendo, real or imagined. Like you are just dying to be raping them or something. Then they will go on about some guys ass or how good the 50 shades sequel was without a hint of self awareness.

    If I get a hint of any of that attitude I avoid like the plague unless it's absolutely necessary for work.
    Inclined to agree with CrankyHaus. I don't know any women who carry on like that. Unless you're hanging around with college students, it's more of an internet thing than real life.


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    #78
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,495 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    You realise that not all laws are CRIMINAL LAWS? There's civil law as well

    Gardai deal with Criminal matters primarily.

    The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform produced an updated Code of Practice on Sexual Harassment and Harassment in 2012. The code seeks to promote the development and implementation of policies and procedures which establish working environments free of sexual harassment and harassment and in which the dignity of everyone is respected. The provisions of the code are admissible in evidence and if relevant may be taken into account in any criminal or other proceedings before a court.


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    #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    A lot of that is subject to abuse. Like hate crimes, it's impossible to police insulting words as it's subjective, depends on context, audience and intent.

    For example, "that girl has a big arse". Is that offensive, insulting, abusive, descriptive, complimentary, personal opinion?

    Should it be not allowed to say in public if the subject feels so?

    They are policed every single day. The terms and words I posted are all crimes in the current law.

    Sections 5 and 6, criminal Justice (public order) act 1994. People are arrested daily.


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Strumms wrote: »
    The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform produced an updated Code of Practice on Sexual Harassment and Harassment in 2012. The code seeks to promote the development and implementation of policies and procedures which establish working environments free of sexual harassment and harassment and in which the dignity of everyone is respected. The provisions of the code are admissible in evidence and if relevant may be taken into account in any criminal or other proceedings before a court.

    Good man yourself. Not sure what your point is as that's all irrelevant to it being a Criminal offence to sexual harass someone

    It's their hrm policy. They don't make laws. It's even called their 'code' in your comments. It's a policy that will allow them, like other companies, to dismiss staff for breaches


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    #81
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/cinderelliexox/status/1232045094712303616

    https://twitter.com/Emma_Curran2104/status/1232047281983152128

    The deleted tweet containing the allegations was originally in between these two tweets in the thread.

    Sounds very much like this is about lads (a) looking at women and (b) talking privately with other lads about women. Neither of these things should be grounds for penalty. People have private conversations which veer into rude territory about other people all the time, it's just how people are - and there is not a gender exclusivity about that, either. Talking about and rating other peoples' looks is something both genders do in groups literally all the time. In another tweet she mentions that someone took a creepshot of her - that's absolutely a fair thing to be angry about and something which absolutely should be dealt with by college authorities, but looking at someone sexually or making sexual remarks about them to others? That's life and there's nothing wrong with it.

    Maybe I'm alone here but if I found out that a group of women or gay lads in a group chat were discussing whether or not I was sexy and what my best or worst features were, apart from being surprised at getting that kind of attention it wouldn't upset me, because people are people and expecting people not to look at other people sexually when it's one of the main things people think about every day is just bizarre.

    I know, right? Jeez, some of blue stuff me and my friends would text each other about lads we knew in college would probably make her blush.


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    #82
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Incitement to hatred
    Threats to kill or injure
    Threatening words
    Abusive words
    Insulting words
    Libelous words
    Demands with menace
    Aggressive begging

    Probable more that I'm just not remembering. Actually a lot you can't say in public

    Threatening words depends on the context. Most of your list does. Abusive and insulting words are culturally inappropriate but you won't get arrested for using them, without being warned to stop.


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    #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,369 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Threatening words depends on the context. Most of your list does. Abusive and insulting words are culturally inappropriate but you won't get arrested for using them, without being warned to stop.

    Rubbish. There's no requirement to direct someone under section 8 before arresting

    I have lifted probably more than 100 people straight away where I felt it warranted. It's all there in the legislation


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Niner leprauchan wrote: »
    Rubbish. There's no requirement to direct someone under section 8 before arresting

    I have lifted probably more than 100 people straight away where I felt it warranted. It's all there in the legislation

    Really? I hadn't seen that. Guess things have changed since I spent time with such people. :pac:


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    #85
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Grab All Association wrote: »
    One of the people I follow on Twitter retweet’s this

    https://twitter.com/emma_curran2104/status/1245412523937054722?s=21

    It’s only one side to the story but as usual everybody on there is taking it as the absolute truth. No production of the alleged email or any indication that a complaint was made to An Garda Síochána about the alleged behaviour. Other than posting people’s names online and then taking them down. I’m not buying this at all. If NUIM really did send her an email then they were probably right.

    It’s the responsibility of An Garda Síochána to investigate and the state to convict/absolve people of crimes, not mobs on Twitter.

    So she is giving out about getting unwanted attention, then actively seeks more attention on social media. Over 2k likes atm, she is bound to feel good at the very least and have a high profile on campus.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #86
    0gac3yjefb5sv7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,948 ✭✭✭0gac3yjefb5sv7


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    So she is giving out about getting unwanted attention, then actively seeks more attention on social media. Over 2k likes atm, she is bound to feel good at the very least and have a high profile on campus.

    Has the actual details come out yet? As in what happened.


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    #87
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,835 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Elle Uptight Recruiter wrote: »
    Has the actual details come out yet? As in what happened.

    I didn't look for anything info. First I heard of this was on this thread. Which says a lot in itself.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #88
    2u2me
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    It's imported American progressive ****, the idea being to show how Liberal and moral you are. Basically what's seem to become known as virtue signalling.

    Not just that the whole thing has turned intersectional. Everything is about who is the biggest victim. Everyone cries victim to be awarded victim points. If you are the worst victim you are most deserving of help, support, money etc..

    Its completely regressive and I've seen posters warning about it for years and being mocked and derided, "This isn't in Ireland" they said.


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