Championship and Covid

RedDevil55

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Do you mean the GAA's plans or just the government roadmap? Just because they're no longer barred on the 20th of July doesn't mean the GAA are certain to resume playing that day.

That's the GAA's plan as well but obviously it could change.

6o9fv7jpreb180

I feel that date in July is very optimistic. If there is any resurgence of the virus in phase 1 and 2, I'd say they'll cancel all GAA for the year.

Speaking from my own county, there are club players training like mad on their own. I hope if it is cancelled, its cancelled soon. Get it over and done with... thats speaking as a player who's doing absolutely no training!!

dobman88

RedDevil55 wrote: »

That's the GAA's plan as well but obviously it could change.

John Horan said the other night he didnt see GAA coming back while social distancing measures were in place. And they will still be in place when that date comes round. So I would disagree that it's the GAAs plan to go ahead on July 20th or whatever it is.

RedDevil55

dobman88 wrote: »

John Horan said the other night he didnt see GAA coming back while social distancing measures were in place. And they will still be in place when that date comes round. So I would disagree that it's the GAAs plan to go ahead on July 20th or whatever it is.

But the government's road map has GAA games back in July, rugby in August etc so the plan at the moment surely means social distancing is going to be relaxed?

dobman88

RedDevil55 wrote: »

But the government's road map has GAA games back in July, rugby in August etc so the plan at the moment surely means social distancing is going to be relaxed?

No, that was the point. Govt has it down as behind closed doors with social distancing needed. That's the point John Horan made on the Sunday game. He doesnt see how games can go ahead on a pitch if social distancing is still required. Social distancing will still be around well after the govt phases are back in.

CrabRevolution

Margot Loose Smooch wrote: »

I feel that date in July is very optimistic. If there is any resurgence of the virus in phase 1 and 2, I'd say they'll cancel all GAA for the year.

Speaking from my own county, there are club players training like mad on their own. I hope if it is cancelled, its cancelled soon. Get it over and done with... thats speaking as a player who's doing absolutely no training!!

Careful, it's that line of thinking that got us into this mess with the Leaving Cert!

howiya

RedDevil55 wrote: »

But the government's road map has GAA games back in July, rugby in August etc so the plan at the moment surely means social distancing is going to be relaxed?

This is exactly what the road map says

Phase 4

Permit sports team leagues (e.g. soccer and GAA) but only where limitations are placed on the numbers of spectators and where social distancing can be maintained.

How can social distancing be maintained when playing a contact sport?

Chalk McHugh

howiya wrote: »

This is exactly what the road map says

Phase 4

Permit sports team leagues (e.g. soccer and GAA) but only where limitations are placed on the numbers of spectators and where social distancing can be maintained.

How can social distancing be maintained when playing a contact sport?

And that is our CATCH 22. Joseph Heller would be proud of that one.

mountgomery burns

Waiting for the day Holohan or the Gov are asked directly to explain that bit, don't think anyone has in the last two weeks.

xredmanlfcx

PlayByTheRules wrote: »

Social Distancing will not be a requirement in a few months time thankfully if we keep going in the right direction with the number of cases decreasing as they are. We must stay the course to get our wonderful games back.

We never benefited initially as an island nation but I feel once we get the cases down to near zero and borders and travel remain locked down we will start to benefit.

The final piece of the puzzle for a full return to club GAA IMO is a rapid testing capability that way any remaining cases / clusters can be traced and dealt with very quickly.

As good as it sounds, what about the club's in NI?

Fr Tod Umptious

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Waiting for the day Holohan or the Gov are asked directly to explain that bit, don't think anyone has in the last two weeks.

I don't think there is a whole lot for them to explain.

GAA clubs are allowed resume activities as long as they maintain social distancing.

And it's really up to the GAA as individual clubs or centrally to determine what sort of activities they can do that also adhere to social distancing rules.

Obviously full training and games cannot happen with social distancing, so it's up to the GAA to decide what they can do.

mountgomery burns

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't think there is a whole lot for them to explain.

GAA clubs are allowed resume activities as long as they maintain social distancing.

And it's really up to the GAA as individual clubs or centrally to determine what sort of activities they can do that also adhere to social distancing rules.

Obviously full training and games cannot happen with social distancing, so it's up to the GAA to decide what they can do.

They specifically leagues can resume so they absolutely need to explain it

Fr Tod Umptious

mountgomery burns wrote: »

They specifically leagues can resume so they absolutely need to explain it

Here is the exact text from the website https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/acc4de-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-20-july-phase-4/

gov.ie wrote:

Competitions for sports teams (for example, soccer and GAA) can resume, but only where limitations are placed on the numbers of spectators and where social distancing can be maintained.

Yes its says competitions but one would imagine that the onus is on the sports body not on the government to determine how they can conduct their own competitions given the social distancing requirement.

What the government have published is not mandatory, just because they something can start back on a certain date does not mean it has to start back on that date.

mountgomery burns

Tod, it makes no sense. If they specifically mention the sport and that competitions can resume, then they need to justify how that is possible given they have stated social distancing e.g. 2 metres apart must be maintained.

You hardly think they are suggesting the GAA, FAI etc fundamentally change the rules of engagement for their sports so they are no longer contact sports?

The fact they don't have to return on the date is totally irrelevant by the way, they have stated they can and so need to justify how because nobody else seems to know and they are the ones issuing expert health advice.

pgj2015

I think they mean that clubs must enforce social distancing in relation to the crowds watching, not the players.

RedDevil55

pgj2015 wrote: »

I think they mean that clubs must enforce social distancing in relation to the crowds watching, not the players.

That was my point. Maybe I'm giving the government too much credit but I'm sure the road map is based on scientific and medical advice. Restrictions will be eased gradually over the next few months and it will be possible to play a game of football in late July/August.

TCDStudent1

I am pretty sure I heard the GAA say somewhere that they were going to clarify with the government regarding how they can social distance while play their games. I'd assume that responsibility will fall to the Covid group that the GAA have formed.

The contact nature of the sport is arguably less of an issue than dressing rooms. It is essentially impossible to social distance in a dressing room. For anybody accustomed to dressing rooms, they are usually pretty small and tight spaces. This would definitely go against social distancing. You could argue that players could arrive already togged out etc. But this is making the whole process very cumbersome.

howiya

RedDevil55 wrote: »

That was my point. Maybe I'm giving the government too much credit but I'm sure the road map is based on scientific and medical advice. Restrictions will be eased gradually over the next few months and it will be possible to play a game of football in late July/August.

I think you're looking at one line of the road map in isolation to be honest.

Phase 4, the same phase under which the government says GAA can return, allows for "Slightly larger number of people may visit another household for a short period of time while maintaining social distancing".

So if I visit your house, I need to stand/sit two metres from you but if I'm a corner back and you're a corner forward I can stand closer.

I think people need to be realistic.

mountgomery burns

howiya wrote: »

I think you're looking at one line of the road map in isolation to be honest.

Phase 4, the same phase under which the government says GAA can return, allows for "Slightly larger number of people may visit another household for a short period of time while maintaining social distancing".

So if I visit your house, I need to stand/sit two metres from you but if I'm a corner back and you're a corner forward I can stand closer.

I think people need to be realistic.

I'm saying this with no agenda, not demanding that we go back on July 20th or anything...I'm just questioning how they can state those two in the same phase of the plan?

Regardless of what inference we want to take from it, I think the reasonable thing is to ask the gov/NPHET to clarify what they were actually suggesting re sport in phase 4. Varadkar had even said himself we could see an all Ireland in August in September with no spectators the night it was released, so I'd say asking him how that works with social distancing is only reasonable.

dobman88

It's really simple and I'm not sure what's confusing people. If you need ANY form of social distancing with people and spectators then you simply cant have a game go ahead as there is absolutely no chance to social distance in a match.

Training you could probably make it work, smaller groups, ball work and running only, no contact, arrive togged and must wear gloves throughout. But even that is opening up a can of worms itself.

Until they decide we have enough done that we can live alongside the virus while they work on a vaccine, I dont see non professional sport returning.

pgj2015

dobman88 wrote: »

It's really simple and I'm not sure what's confusing people. If you need ANY form of social distancing with people and spectators then you simply cant have a game go ahead as there is absolutely no chance to social distance in a match.

Training you could probably make it work, smaller groups, ball work and running only, no contact, arrive togged and must wear gloves throughout. But even that is opening up a can of worms itself.

Until they decide we have enough done that we can live alongside the virus while they work on a vaccine, I dont see non professional sport returning.

what about things that were allowed during the worst of the pandemic here, services allowed to run even though social distancing was impossible?

dobman88

pgj2015 wrote: »

what about things that were allowed during the worst of the pandemic here, services allowed to run even though social distancing was impossible?

I dont know what you're referring to but this is specifically about gaa and covid. I actively avoid the covid forum because it invariably goes round like that. What about this that and the other. I'm sure you could ask that in the relevant forum.

Loafing Oaf

dobman88 wrote: »

It's really simple and I'm not sure what's confusing people.

People might be looking at pro soccer resuming in other countries and not grasping that that (and it very much remains to be seen if it will actually work) very much depends on an extensive testing regime that would not be feasible for an amateur sport

dobman88

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

People might be looking at pro soccer resuming in other countries and not grasping that that (and it very much remains to be seen if it will actually work) very much depends on an extensive testing regime that would not be feasible for an amateur sport

Yeah they would have the money and desire to have strict testing. Can also isolate players away from the world. Not possible with GAA lads.

pgj2015

dobman88 wrote: »

I dont know what you're referring to but this is specifically about gaa and covid. I actively avoid the covid forum because it invariably goes round like that. What about this that and the other. I'm sure you could ask that in the relevant forum.

it is relevant to what we are talking about. the government were telling us to keep 2 metres away from people yet they allowed services to run as normal even though social distancing was impossible. they left it up to the service providers to decide themselves to keep working or not. maybe GAA players will just have to decide themselves if they want to play or not.

kksaints

There's a possibility that the social distancing might be reduced from 2 metres to 1 meter in the later stages of the restrictions lifting. Its unlikely to help in the GAA case but it could help sports.

dobman88

pgj2015 wrote: »

it is relevant to what we are talking about. the government were telling us to keep 2 metres away from people yet they allowed services to run as normal even though social distancing was impossible. they left it up to the service providers to decide themselves to keep working or not. maybe GAA players will just have to decide themselves if they want to play or not.

Ok.

kaizersoze

Look, we can talk around in circles about different scenarios and should haves but the bottom line is this.....the president of the GAA has publically announced that there will be nothing happening on the GAA front until October at the earliest, if at all. This has been decided at high levels and on medical advice and common sense.

mountgomery burns

kaizersoze wrote: »

Look, we can talk around in circles about different scenarios and should haves but the bottom line is this.....the president of the GAA has publically announced that there will be nothing happening on the GAA front until October at the earliest, if at all. This has been decided at high levels and on medical advice and common sense.

He did not say that at all

RedDevil55

kaizersoze wrote: »

Look, we can talk around in circles about different scenarios and should haves but the bottom line is this.....the president of the GAA has publically announced that there will be nothing happening on the GAA front until October at the earliest, if at all. This has been decided at high levels and on medical advice and common sense.

That's the case for intercounty but as things stand, GAA clubs will open on 20th July and club competitions could begin shortly after. John Horan announced that last Sunday too.

Loafing Oaf

RedDevil55 wrote: »

That's the case for intercounty but as things stand, GAA clubs will open on 20th July and club competitions could begin shortly after. John Horan announced that last Sunday too.

Did he? He left the door open but didn't give me the impression he was confident it would happen:

"We are holding those July and October dates out but if we can't realise those dates, then we will have to make more serious decisions and push it out more. If we push it out more it may mean we'll have to call off club or inter-county championships and maybe then we'll have to call off both.

RedDevil55

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Did he? He left the door open but didn't give me the impression he was confident it would happen:

People are just arguing over semantics at this stage. Nobody is sure how things will be in 2 or 3 months time, all we can go on is current projections.

The plan is for GAA grounds to open on 20th July with club championships given priority to be ran first. Intercounty will follow afterwards at a date no sooner than October.

There was no blanket ban on GAA activity until October!

kaizersoze

mountgomery burns wrote: »

He did not say that at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YAdnyaZpLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=8YAdnyaZpLA

Listen to his interview on the SG....first question
"Will Gaelic games be played at any level while social distancing is in place?"
A: "I can't see it happening...."

Leos announcement about the 24th took them by surprise. They looked at it but they know it's not workable and wont happen. Could be reviewed as he mentioned but unlikely.

mountgomery burns

kaizersoze wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YAdnyaZpLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=8YAdnyaZpLA

Listen to his interview on the SG....first question
"Will Gaelic games be played at any level while social distancing is in place?"
A: "I can't see it happening...."

Leos announcement about the 24th took them by surprise. They looked at it but they know it's not workable and wont happen. Could be reviewed as he mentioned but unlikely.

The 24th of when? He says they feel both October dates (for a possible return to inter -county) and July 20th for the opening of club grounds for their activities are "safe" in his own words.

You said no games until October, that is inter-county they are talking about. He said he wants clubs to take priority as it affects more people, so you would anticipate them starting earlier. And I acknowledge what he said about social distancing, and under the definition we have I agree it doesn't make sense how you could play the sport under those conditions. All the more reason to question why this was included in the Gov document, is it:

A) an analysis done by the experts in this area to conclude based on current trends that there could be a safe environment for matches to be played by this date

Politicians dangling carrots in front of the public to achieve short term compliance with the restrictions they have put in place

C) something else


Either way, as I've been saying all day we need them to clarify that and I imagine the task force they e setup in the GAA will have that as there first port of call. Below is the from the GAA statement last week, last line again relevant to October being specifically for inter-county:


"We are instructing our clubs and counties to continue to adhere to the restrictions and to refrain from organising on-field activity. These measures are expected to remain in place until July 20.

We will continue to monitor the dates and timelines as revealed by the Government and our arrangements will remain under constant review.

Our units are reminded that the Player Injury scheme is suspended and will remain so until an official return to action protocol is confirmed.

The GAA still firmly hopes to be able to play county and club competitions this year, subject of course to public health guidance. We can confirm however that no inter-county games are expected to take place before October"

kaizersoze

mountgomery burns wrote: »

The 24th of when? He says they feel both October dates (for a possible return to inter -county) and July 20th for the opening of club grounds for their activities are "safe" in his own words.

You said no games until October, that is inter-county they are talking about. He said he wants clubs to take priority as it affects more people, so you would anticipate them starting earlier. And I acknowledge what he said about social distancing, and under the definition we have I agree it doesn't make sense how you could play the sport under those conditions. All the more reason to question why this was included in the Gov document, is it:

A) an analysis done by the experts in this area to conclude based on current trends that there could be a safe environment for matches to be played by this date

Politicians dangling carrots in front of the public to achieve short term compliance with the restrictions they have put in place

C) something else


Either way, as I've been saying all day we need them to clarify that and I imagine the task force they e setup in the GAA will have that as there first port of call. Below is the from the GAA statement last week, last line again relevant to October being specifically for inter-county:


"We are instructing our clubs and counties to continue to adhere to the restrictions and to refrain from organising on-field activity. These measures are expected to remain in place until July 20.

We will continue to monitor the dates and timelines as revealed by the Government and our arrangements will remain under constant review.

Our units are reminded that the Player Injury scheme is suspended and will remain so until an official return to action protocol is confirmed.

The GAA still firmly hopes to be able to play county and club competitions this year, subject of course to public health guidance. We can confirm however that no inter-county games are expected to take place before October"

Apologies. I meant the 20th July. The thread is about Championship and Covid though although it has derailed a bit. That's really what i was referring to.

In all honesty I cant see club activity until much later than July. It's really not practical or managable.

Kerrydude1981

Our county secretary was on Radio Kerry last weekend he was saying that the GAA should see how the professional sports get on and see if there is anything that we could use

Was reading this last night

https://www.the42.ie/bundesliga-5098350-May2020/

CrabRevolution

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Our county secretary was on Radio Kerry last weekend he was saying that the GAA should see how the professional sports get on and see if there is anything that we could use

Was reading this last night

https://www.the42.ie/bundesliga-5098350-May2020/

Comparisons to the Bundesliga/Premier League are a waste of time. It comes down to a resources and time. The more resources you have, the less time you've to wait till you can play. Obviously the Bundesliga has resources beyond anything the GAA could ever muster, so they can afford to test/split/buy anything necessary to get going ahead of other sports.

In Scotland it was estimated that it would cost €2.3 Million just to test players in order to complete the remaining 49 games of the SPFL, and that's seen as simply unaffordable despite them being a professional body. I said earlier in the thread that a more useful comparison to the GAA is lower league soccer in the UK, where I've heard more talk about going bust than restarting any time soon. Obviously the GAA isn't at much risk of going bust, but the resources aren't there to bring in testing for teams etc.

Then on top of this you've the fact they're professionals. I won't say soccer clubs "own" their players, but being their employer they can make far more demands of them regarding their lifestyle, isolation etc. than the GAA could ever make of their players.

It's important the GAA get the date right because once a date is chosen it'll be very difficult to rein back in. That's why I commend the GAA for keeping clubs closed for now, because they know it'll be impossible to police and it's inevitable that some will take liberties. If 2 groups of 4 are training on the same pitch, I could easily see it becoming 1 group on 8...then 16, and then the whole team is training together and ignoring the rules. Same with the pubs and their "careful, clean pub" plan to open early; it's just a way of getting a foot in the door and then after a few weeks turning back into old ways, by which time it'll be difficult to bring in new rules.

mountgomery burns

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0516/1138803-government-establishes-return-to-sport-expert-group/

I see FAI are penciling in the 28th August as the date of return for matches at an amateur level

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0515/1138736-fai-pathway-aims-to-begin-with-pilot-programme-in-june/

xredmanlfcx

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Comparisons to the Bundesliga/Premier League are a waste of time. It comes down to a resources and time. The more resources you have, the less time you've to wait till you can play. Obviously the Bundesliga has resources beyond anything the GAA could ever muster, so they can afford to test/split/buy anything necessary to get going ahead of other sports.

In Scotland it was estimated that it would cost €2.3 Million just to test players in order to complete the remaining 49 games of the SPFL, and that's seen as simply unaffordable despite them being a professional body. I said earlier in the thread that a more useful comparison to the GAA is lower league soccer in the UK, where I've heard more talk about going bust than restarting any time soon. Obviously the GAA isn't at much risk of going bust, but the resources aren't there to bring in testing for teams etc.

Then on top of this you've the fact they're professionals. I won't say soccer clubs "own" their players, but being their employer they can make far more demands of them regarding their lifestyle, isolation etc. than the GAA could ever make of their players.

It's important the GAA get the date right because once a date is chosen it'll be very difficult to rein back in. That's why I commend the GAA for keeping clubs closed for now, because they know it'll be impossible to police and it's inevitable that some will take liberties. If 2 groups of 4 are training on the same pitch, I could easily see it becoming 1 group on 8...then 16, and then the whole team is training together and ignoring the rules. Same with the pubs and their "careful, clean pub" plan to open early; it's just a way of getting a foot in the door and then after a few weeks turning back into old ways, by which time it'll be difficult to bring in new rules.

It's a waste of time comparing resources. But it's not a waste of time comparing the ability to play sport matches. The Bundesliga will provide information for every sporting organisation in Europe in a couple of weeks.

CrabRevolution

xredmanlfcx wrote: »

It's a waste of time comparing resources. But it's not a waste of time comparing the ability to play sport matches. The Bundesliga will provide information for every sporting organisation in Europe in a couple of weeks.

My entire point is that when you can play sport matches depends on your resources. You can't just wish away the connection between the 2.

Professional soccer players from the big leagues can isolate from everyone else if they need to as they’re getting paid for it. A GAA player can’t.

shockframe

You can't compare the championship with the Bundesliga.

They still have a few games left to play with a very close title race (the closest in a few years) and also relegation with 3 or 4 teams in the mix.

They've gone too far in the season to void it. We haven't even started a championship.

mountgomery burns

shockframe wrote: »

You can't compare the championship with the Bundesliga.

They still have a few games left to play with a very close title race (the closest in a few years) and also relegation with 3 or 4 teams in the mix.

They've gone too far in the season to void it. We haven't even started a championship.

They'd 13 games left to play ahead of this weekend. I agree the comparison is not relevant between professional sport to amateur sport. But don't think fixtures have any relevance here. Even if there league hadn't started and had to be pushed out, they wouldn't be able to wait too long before returning to action.

Anyway, I think if the fall in numbers admitted to hospital continues to decline amateur sport will resume late in the summer. There may be some who decide it's not worth the risk which is fair enough, but I think the appetite will be there. Think those who believe nothing will happen before a vaccine/treatment is found are misguided. Though large attendances are not a runner until that point I would agree.

As usual all the ones clamouring for everything to return are the ones it won’t affect and it’s a big case of “I’m fed up and **** everyone else”. By the time this is all over there’s going to be some division around this country.

Put it down to ignorance.

So bury anyone older so as you can watch a bit of ball? Nice.

CrabRevolution

Bonniedog wrote: »

If people listen to the medical profession - yes, the ones who have lost over 1,000 elderly people under 24/7 care! - then we'll be under lockdown for ever.

Virus is not going away.

We need a vaccine but in meantime we need to balance an acceptable number of deaths against the potential destruction of economy and communities through an unending period of restrictions.

Winter flu - with vaccine - kills 6-700,000 in a few months every year. Societies just deal with it.

Is it not a contradiction to claim that deaths from disease are inevitable and unavoidable, but at the same time deaths from disease only happened because the medical profession failed in their jobs?

CrabRevolution

Bonniedog wrote: »

This is one of the consequences of closing schools

BTW, no elderly person died in my house in last two months. Nursing home up the road run by doctors is like fkn Treblinka.

Open your eyes.

That's like saying we should close all hospitals because there's loads of sick and dying people there.

Kerrydude1981

One of the first GAA clubs to go back training

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/it-was-a-godsend-to-be-back-on-the-grass-swiss-gaa-club-among-first-to-return-to-training-1000487.html

Bonniedog

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

One of the first GAA clubs to go back training

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/it-was-a-godsend-to-be-back-on-the-grass-swiss-gaa-club-among-first-to-return-to-training-1000487.html

There was story in one of tabloids hinting at inter county team(s) secretly training.

Didnt read it and there has been no follow on so take it that it was made up.

No way inter county team be that stupid. Hundreds of people would know straight away. Be no secret!