Championship and Covid

km79

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The GAA have issued their own guidelines for a return to training and games.

These include groups of 10 training together at social distance from June 29th to July 23rd.
After July 23rd normal training can resume.
All equipment has to be washed and sanitized before and after training.
All temperatures have to be taken at entry to training and anyone with over 37.5 has to be turned away.
All players must arrive individually, no car pooling.
I'm not sure of the social distancing regulations for onlookers during games when they start but I'm sure they are extensive.

I'm involved with the underage setup in my club and it's going to be a big job implementing the above but we will do it.

One cannot expect club GAA to do extensive testing like professional soccer.

Mayo GAA sent out guidelines to clubs (and on twitter ) advising that temp check would be the responsibility of the individual themselves (and for children it will be up to their parents ) . So clubs will not have to take care of this aspect .
Takes a lot of pressure off the clubs
But could lead to problems ........

almostover

km79 wrote: »

Mayo GAA sent out guidelines to clubs (and on twitter ) advising that temp check would be the responsibility of the individual themselves (and for children it will be up to their parents ) . So clubs will not have to take care of this aspect .
Takes a lot of pressure off the clubs
But could lead to problems ........

Huge problems, If a player is running a fever the morning of a big championship match will they rule themselves out of the game or turn a blind eye to it. Leaving it up to the players is madness in my opinion.

Fr Tod Umptious

km79 wrote: »

Mayo GAA sent out guidelines to clubs (and on twitter ) advising that temp check would be the responsibility of the individual themselves (and for children it will be up to their parents ) . So clubs will not have to take care of this aspect .
Takes a lot of pressure off the clubs
But could lead to problems ........

Actually yeah, I just re-read it.

"COVID supervisor to ensure temperature of all team participants is recorded...."

So it does not actually specify that the COVID supervisor has to take the reading.

xredmanlfcx

almostover wrote: »

Huge problems, If a player is running a fever the morning of a big championship match will they rule themselves out of the game or turn a blind eye to it. Leaving it up to the players is madness in my opinion.

While it makes perfect sense to enforce the rules externally instead of leaving it up to the player, and I agree with you both mathematically and psychologically (it's not fair on the players to get them to make the call), but:

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

One cannot expect club GAA to do extensive testing like professional soccer.

pdiddy

almostover wrote: »

Huge problems, If a player is running a fever the morning of a big championship match will they rule themselves out of the game or turn a blind eye to it. Leaving it up to the players is madness in my opinion.

To be honest if a player is running a fever id doubt he's going to be much good anyways. But yes this is open to players giving false temps.

If it was done by the club and the star county player shows up with a bit of a high temp id doubt any manager is going to say sorry buddy you need to go home more likely he just gets a bit of cold water from the magic bottle and away he goes.

callaway92

Kinda off-topic - But generally season-on-season, is there an Intermediate Intercounty Championship every year for Football?

Can't find anything on it anywhere - Same with province championships at that level

mountgomery burns

callaway92 wrote: »

Kinda off-topic - But generally season-on-season, is there an Intermediate Intercounty Championship every year for Football?

Can't find anything on it anywhere - Same with province championships at that level

Junior in football, Intermediate in hurling. Only two grades, I think the hurling has been wound up pretty much last couple of years.

kaizersoze

They are rowing back on requiring temperature checks because ther are too many variables.
An adult could have taken Paracetamol for example (like what was happening in the meat plants) or a parent could give a child Calpol or similar. That renders temp checks useless.

PTH2009

phases been changed once again with possibly 5000 outdoor crowds been permitted in September/October

going in the right direction and we could have championships this year. Feck the begrudgers i want them to take place no matter what time of the year

beggars_bush

So when can counties can start club championships?

TCDStudent1

beggars_bush wrote: »

So when can counties can start club championships?

I doubt there will be any change to the end of July. The difficulty is that teams have been doing different levels of training etc. I would think it is unfair to ask teams to go straight into club championship before this. A more likely scenario is that you see teams play a few challenges in July now leading up to the c'ship.

C__MC

You would think it will be full contact from Monday week on rather than non contact

Perhaps official games could start one week earlier following yesterday's announcement

How are the GAA going to manage suspected cases though?

Kerrydude1981

The following changes to the return to activity guidelines are being made after recommendations made by the Covid-19 Advisory Committee this morning.

These changes were subsequently endorsed by the GAA, the Camogie Association and the LGFA.

This week:

Open pitches for Adult training next Wednesday, June 24th.
Open for Minor and below from Saturday, June 27th.
Both of the above on a non-contact basis and on the understanding that players and all participants have completed the eLearning module and are following the control measures in place (health questionnaire etc).
On the basis of a maximum of 15 players in a designated area of the field (26 Counties) and 10 players in a designated area of the field (6 Counties).
Coaching numbers for underage teams to be consistent with Code of Behaviour.
From June 29th:

Allow contact training and challenge games for all from Monday, June 29th (26 Counties).
We await guidance from the NI Executive in relation to 6 Counties – non-contact training in the numbers outlined above in the interim.
We also await clarification on what will constitute a close contact versus a casual contact.
Restriction on participants only attending training sessions to be relaxed from June 29th – subject to government specified maximum of 200 people in the ground.
Allow Club Fixtures from Friday July 17th.
No change to inter-county dates (Sept 14th for training; competitions to start on Oct 17th as planned).
All control measures for players, coaches and other team personnel (completion of health questionnaire, eLearning education etc) is to remain in place until advised otherwise; dressing rooms to remain closed until July 20th
The Advisory Committee is considering the position in relation to other GAA buildings (such as Club bars that are serving food, Gyms, Handball alleys etc). Guidance will be provided in this context before June 29th.
https://www.gaa.ie/news/covid-19-update-x5299/

Kerrydude1981

Hawkeye9212

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

If the knockout happens hopefully it reminds people that knockout is the way to go later in the year and those quarter final groups can die forever.

The GAA wants to move away from the provincial structure and go for an open draw but the power of the provincial councils is too strong. Hurling would be better if it were open draw. They seem to prefer the idea of rebalanced provinces but the only counties which could be moved are the exile counties of London and New York.

Move New York into Ulster and London in Leinster. That would give Ulster and Leinster 10 and 12 counties respectively. Connacht will have 5 teams and Munster will have 6 teams. Each province can have a group stage. The provincial champions go into the All-Ireland series which is straight knockout.

It's a rubbish solution but it keeps everyone happy.

The Lost Sheep

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

The GAA wants to move away from the provincial structure and go for an open draw but the power of the provincial councils is too strong. Hurling would be better if it were open draw. They seem to prefer the idea of rebalanced provinces but the only counties which could be moved are the exile counties of London and New York.

Move New York into Ulster and London in Leinster. That would give Ulster and Leinster 10 and 12 counties respectively. Connacht will have 5 teams and Munster will have 6 teams. Each province can have a group stage. The provincial champions go into the All-Ireland series which is straight knockout.

It's a rubbish solution but it keeps everyone happy.

getting rid of provincial competitions isnt a good thing. Change their role in the all Ireland series but keep them. For most counties it's their only real chance of success

Hawkeye9212

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

getting rid of provincial competitions isnt a good thing. Change their role in the all Ireland series but keep them. For most counties it's their only real chance of success

I'd be inclined to agree but they need to move with the times and adopt a group stage so every team has at least 4 or 5 games like the hurlers. The All-Ireland series should be straight knockout. Jim McGuinness put out a proposal a few years back. I thought it was a good idea which preserved the provincial championships.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993

The format I proposed could be tweaked to keep NY in Connacht. Move London to Leinster and split each province into groups of 3. Double round-robin. The provincial champions go into the All-Ireland semi-finals. Just to give an example for my own province of Ulster.

Group A: Donegal, Monaghan, Derry.

Group B: Tyrone, Cavan, Down.

Group C: Armagh, Fermanagh, Antrim.


Leinster would look like this.

Group A: Dublin, Westmeath, London.

Group B: Meath, Laois, Offaly.

Group C: Kildare, Longford, Wicklow.

Group Louth, Carlow, Wexford.

ArmaniJeanss

Any solution which puts a maximum (and a minimum) of one from each province into the semi-finals is a huge backward step.

If Cork & Kerry or Armagh & Tyrone happen to be the two best teams in the country in any year then the system should allow them to meet in the All-Ireland Final.
Conversely if any province doesn't have any team good enough to be in the Top 4 then they shouldn't get a guaranteed semi-finalist.

Hawkeye9212

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Any solution which puts a maximum (and a minimum) of one from each province into the semi-finals is a huge backward step.

If Cork & Kerry or Armagh & Tyrone happen to be the two best teams in the country in any year then the system should allow them to meet in the All-Ireland Final.
Conversely if any province doesn't have any team good enough to be in the Top 4 then they shouldn't get a guaranteed semi-finalist.

Those teams will get out of their provinces if they are good enough. An open draw championship won't tackle the divide in football. We already have a tiered competition so I don't have any interest in a Tier 2 championship.

Cork and Kerry will face each other this year and it will even better because there is no backdoor. You could always put the losing finalists into the All-Ireland series as well like the hurling if you want more teams.

rom

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

The following changes to the return to activity guidelines are being made after recommendations made by the Covid-19 Advisory Committee this morning.

These changes were subsequently endorsed by the GAA, the Camogie Association and the LGFA.

This week:

Open pitches for Adult training next Wednesday, June 24th.
Open for Minor and below from Saturday, June 27th.
Both of the above on a non-contact basis and on the understanding that players and all participants have completed the eLearning module and are following the control measures in place (health questionnaire etc).
On the basis of a maximum of 15 players in a designated area of the field (26 Counties) and 10 players in a designated area of the field (6 Counties).
Coaching numbers for underage teams to be consistent with Code of Behaviour.
From June 29th:

Allow contact training and challenge games for all from Monday, June 29th (26 Counties).
We await guidance from the NI Executive in relation to 6 Counties – non-contact training in the numbers outlined above in the interim.
We also await clarification on what will constitute a close contact versus a casual contact.
Restriction on participants only attending training sessions to be relaxed from June 29th – subject to government specified maximum of 200 people in the ground.
Allow Club Fixtures from Friday July 17th.
No change to inter-county dates (Sept 14th for training; competitions to start on Oct 17th as planned).
All control measures for players, coaches and other team personnel (completion of health questionnaire, eLearning education etc) is to remain in place until advised otherwise; dressing rooms to remain closed until July 20th
The Advisory Committee is considering the position in relation to other GAA buildings (such as Club bars that are serving food, Gyms, Handball alleys etc). Guidance will be provided in this context before June 29th.
https://www.gaa.ie/news/covid-19-update-x5299/

Sad to see that is being completely ignored here in Cork. I live near a big park where for the last 2 days 3 or 4 full panels of almost 30 players have been training on multiple occasions. They are soccer pitches as the GAA ground is closed. 4 or 5 coaches and a few people looking on. Minor/senior and underage teams. There is no contact but social distancing is non existence.

Coillte_Bhoy

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

Those teams will get out of their provinces if they are good enough. An open draw championship won't tackle the divide in football. We already have a tiered competition so I don't have any interest in a Tier 2 championship.

Cork and Kerry will face each other this year and it will even better because there is no backdoor. You could always put the losing finalists into the All-Ireland series as well like the hurling if you want more teams.

No they wont, only one of them will

PTH2009

When will we see the Intercounty formats and fixtures coming out ??

Hawkeye9212

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

No they wont, only one of them will

That's what I said.

I'd be all for separating the provincials from the All-Ireland series and having an open drawn championship but the GAA couldn't even bring themselves to do it during Covid. My preference would be a group stage. The bottom 16 teams can go into a Tier 2 competition if counties still want it.

arctictree

rom wrote: »

Sad to see that is being completely ignored here in Cork. I live near a big park where for the last 2 days 3 or 4 full panels of almost 30 players have been training on multiple occasions. They are soccer pitches as the GAA ground is closed. 4 or 5 coaches and a few people looking on. Minor/senior and underage teams. There is no contact but social distancing is non existence.

I train a group of under 10s. Training is starting next week and all parents are supposed to have done the covid 19 course. Only one parent in my group has done it.

BonnieSituation

Any system that keeps the provincials as a route to the All-Ireland series is not an upgrade on what we have.

The Lost Sheep

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Any system that keeps the provincials as a route to the All-Ireland series is not an upgrade on what we have.

it can be. Provincial competitions should be kept. So much could be solved by cutting number of weeks it takes to play provincial competitions. You can then give counties more games as well as find more time for clubs.
Provincial titles are most counties only chance of success against bigger counties as they may shock a division 1 side even if these chances dont come around too much.
Why get rid of them. The provincial competitions aren't the issue. It's the time they take to complete etc which is the problem

BonnieSituation

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

it can be. Provincial competitions should be kept. So much could be solved by cutting number of weeks it takes to play provincial competitions. You can then give counties more games as well as find more time for clubs.
Provincial titles are most counties only chance of success against bigger counties as they may shock a division 1 side even if these chances dont come around too much.
Why get rid of them. The provincial competitions aren't the issue. It's the time they take to complete etc which is the problem

Keep them all you want.

LINKING them to the championship is the issue.

irishgeo

Anyone who things Connacht teams are going to give up new York are mad. Mayo and Galway make a mint in fundraising with the trip over every 5 years.

The Lost Sheep

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Keep them all you want.

LINKING them to the championship is the issue.

There can be some form of link to the all Ireland but really the whole structure of season needs fixing. Nearly all counties play more games in February and March than all other months of the year is wrong. You can keep provincial competitions in summer if you change everything about the intercounty season structure.

BonnieSituation

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

There can be some form of link to the all Ireland but really the whole structure of season needs fixing. Nearly all counties play more games in February and March than all other months of the year is wrong. You can keep provincial competitions in summer if you change everything about the intercounty season structure.

Any "ENTRY" link is stupid though.

Seriously, why bother changing it at all in that case?

I sarcastically posted earlier in this thread about how backdoors are a sham:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113653958#post113653958


If the Provincials NEED to be kept then they should either be the pre-season tournament instead of the O'Byrne etc or they should be the secondary competition you get put into after getting knocked out of the All-Ireland series.

Provincial championships made sense in the early 20th century given the strife and difficulty getting around the country.

A fully fledged knock out All-Ireland Championship creates tension and value to every single match played. The single most important thing in sport is the value of the fixture. Increasing this value on a per game basis will revitalise the Championship.

Seeding the first round draw based on the League results will then add more value to the League as well. And tbh, as it stands the League is by far the better competition at this stage.

The Lost Sheep

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Any "ENTRY" link is stupid though.

Seriously, why bother changing it at all in that case?

I sarcastically posted earlier in this thread about how backdoors are a sham:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113653958#post113653958


If the Provincials NEED to be kept then they should either be the pre-season tournament instead of the O'Byrne etc or they should be the secondary competition you get put into after getting knocked out of the All-Ireland series.

Provincial championships made sense in the early 20th century given the strife and difficulty getting around the country.

A fully fledged knock out All-Ireland Championship creates tension and value to every single match played. The single most important thing in sport is the value of the fixture. Increasing this value on a per game basis will revitalise the Championship.

Seeding the first round draw based on the League results will then add more value to the League as well. And tbh, as it stands the League is by far the better competition at this stage.

there should be no pre season competitions in any form. Just let counties play the friendlies they already play. Provincial cups as straight knockout is win win. Counties have a chance of winning something they otherwise wont. If you remove them even more counties have nothing really to try win.

The bigger/stronger counties might'nt always field their strongest side in the provincial cups but that would allow more chance for shocks. It's ridiculous you have the league finished in its entirety before provincial competitions start and that leads on to all Ireland. The whole structure makes zero sense.

Every game played dorsnt have to have all this 'meaning' built up around it.

Hawkeye9212

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

there should be no pre season competitions in any form. Just let counties play the friendlies they already play. Provincial cups as straight knockout is win win. Counties have a chance of winning something they otherwise wont. If you remove them even more counties have nothing really to try win.

The bigger/stronger counties might'nt always field their strongest side in the provincial cups but that would allow more chance for shocks. It's ridiculous you have the league finished in its entirety before provincial competitions start and that leads on to all Ireland. The whole structure makes zero sense.

Every game played dorsnt have to have all this 'meaning' built up around it.

The provincials will have to be separated from the All-Ireland series at some point. Same for hurling if they want to grow the sport. A straight knockout championship isn't realistic either. Football will have a group stage if hurling does because footballers will be asking why they only get to play one game and the hurlers at all levels play 3 or 4 minimum.

The 8 groups of 4 (feck NY) with top 2 into knockout senior championship and bottom 2 into knockout intermediate is so perfect it’s mental we’re still stuck with the provinces and the convoluted B rubbish that was coming in this year. Especially when you made the games with the last 8 into a league and took any bite out of them just as things were meant to heat up.

Round robins early, proper knockout games late. Great year to try the knockout element of it at least.

Sultan of Bling

ReginaldSmythV wrote:

The 8 groups of 4 (feck NY) with top 2 into knockout senior championship and bottom 2 into knockout intermediate is so perfect it’s mental we’re still stuck with the provinces and the convoluted B rubbish that was coming in this year. Especially when you made the games with the last 8 into a league and took any bite out of them just as things were meant to heat up.

ReginaldSmythV wrote:

Round robins early, proper knockout games late.

Agree.

Was finding the qualifiers more entertaining than the super 8s.

Was finding the league more exciting than the championship.

Something seriously wrong there.

The Lost Sheep

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The 8 groups of 4 (feck NY) with top 2 into knockout senior championship and bottom 2 into knockout intermediate is so perfect it’s mental we’re still stuck with the provinces and the convoluted B rubbish that was coming in this year. Especially when you made the games with the last 8 into a league and took any bite out of them just as things were meant to heat up.

Round robins early, proper knockout games late. Great year to try the knockout element of it at least.

you dont need to get rid of the provincial competitions with any of these proposals. You can keep them and keep their history and give sides games against local rivals which cant just be got rid of which would happen if theres no provincial competitions.

BonnieSituation

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

The provincials will have to be separated from the All-Ireland series at some point. Same for hurling if they want to grow the sport. A straight knockout championship isn't realistic either. Football will have a group stage if hurling does because footballers will be asking why they only get to play one game and the hurlers at all levels play 3 or 4 minimum.

It's not "one game". It's just one championship game. The league is there. Dragging out a championship to reward failure is nonsensical.

...

BonnieSituation

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you dont need to get rid of the provincial competitions with any of these proposals. You can keep them and keep their history and give sides games against local rivals which cant just be got rid of which would happen if theres no provincial competitions.

Again. No one is saying get rid of the provincials; what's being said is that we need to get rid of the link between provincials and entry into the all Ireland series.

sgthighway

If we are going to keep the Provincial System we need to start rotating New York and London around to other provinces. Share the wealth and the debt associated with those trips.

Hawkeye9212

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's not "one game". It's just one championship game. The league is there. Dragging out a championship to reward failure is nonsensical.

A group stage followed by a knockout stage doesn't reward failure. That is a stupid thing to say.

BonnieSituation

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

A group stage followed by a knockout stage doesn't reward failure. That is a stupid thing to say.

Backdoors do though. Chucking in a group stage with no consideration to the rest of the calendar or giving second chances is a disaster anyway.

You also complain about "one game". Inter county and club players play plenty of games. They just play them in a haphazard nonsense fashion.
That argument has surely had it's day in an age where players are getting flogged?

Hawkeye9212

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Backdoors do though. Chucking in a group stage with no consideration to the rest of the calendar or giving second chances is a disaster anyway.

You also complain about "one game". Inter county and club players play plenty of games. They just play them in a haphazard nonsense fashion.
That argument has surely had it's day in an age where players are getting flogged?

I never said anything about backdoors. I'm also not complaining about anything. Just having a discussion. Go and unleash your roid rage on someone else.

I'm fine with a straight knockout system but the GAA will probably replicate the hurling and go for a group stage. They're also insisting on a Tier 2 competition so I don't know how that would fit in. I can also guarantee you that the top counties will oppose any system which sees 2 Division 1 sides being seeding against eachother. So will the GAA. They won't want Kerry and Dublin playing eachother in Round 1.

beggars_bush

irishgeo wrote: »

Anyone who things Connacht teams are going to give up new York are mad. Mayo and Galway make a mint in fundraising with the trip over every 5 years.

Don't forget the free junket for provincial officials

BonnieSituation

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

I never said anything about backdoors. I'm also not complaining about anything. Just having a discussion. Go and unleash your roid rage on someone else.

I'm fine with a straight knockout system but the GAA will probably replicate the hurling and go for a group stage. They're also insisting on a Tier 2 competition so I don't know how that would fit in. I can also guarantee you that the top counties will oppose any system which sees 2 Division 1 sides being seeding against eachother. So will the GAA. They won't want Kerry and Dublin playing eachother in Round 1.

But if they were seeded they wouldn't play each other? Isn't that the point of seedings?

I'd imagine that in this hypothetical first round scenario you would have in all cases a Div1/Div2 v Div3/Div4 in every fixture.

DDC1990

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0625/1149513-gaa-championship-format-to-be-announced-no-backdoor/

So straight knockout in the football. Does that mean no Quarter Finals/Super 8 round or do the put the losing Provincial Finalists into the Super 8's I wonder.

Good to see that the National Leagues will be concluded also. Would have been a disaster for next year's format if they hadn't concluded.

BonnieSituation

DDC1990 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0625/1149513-gaa-championship-format-to-be-announced-no-backdoor/

So straight knockout in the football. Does that mean no Quarter Finals/Super 8 round or do the put the losing Provincial Finalists into the Super 8's I wonder.

Good to see that the National Leagues will be concluded also. Would have been a disaster for next year's format if they hadn't concluded.

I'm assuming it will be old school pre-2001 system.

Yet again they had a chance to unlink the provincials and AI Series and didn't take it.

CiarraiAbu2

For one year could they not have an open draw, they just cant let go of the provisional system. Would be nice to a get a few heavy weights in round one, Dublin or Kerry away to Galway, Tyrone or Donegal, even though as it stands Tyrone and Donegal will meet in round 1.

Coillte_Bhoy

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Again. No one is saying get rid of the provincials; what's being said is that we need to get rid of the link between provincials and entry into the all Ireland series.

Which is effectively the same thing as without being linked to the AI they will soon become meaningless, and that would be no bad thing imo.

Coillte_Bhoy

Hawkeye9212 wrote: »

I never said anything about backdoors. I'm also not complaining about anything. Just having a discussion. Go and unleash your roid rage on someone else.

I'm fine with a straight knockout system but the GAA will probably replicate the hurling and go for a group stage. They're also insisting on a Tier 2 competition so I don't know how that would fit in. I can also guarantee you that the top counties will oppose any system which sees 2 Division 1 sides being seeding against eachother. So will the GAA. They won't want Kerry and Dublin playing eachother in Round 1.

'How can they be seeded against each other? The whole point of seeding would be to keep them apart.

BonnieSituation

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Which is effectively the same thing as without being linked to the AI they will soon become meaningless, and that would be no bad thing imo.

Completely agree. But what you do is you give an illusion to some that you're not "getting rid" of the provincials.

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

'How can they be seeded against each other? The whole point of seeding would be to keep them apart.

I subsequently cleared that up with himself.