How much do you miss the pub?

stephenjmcd

undertaker fan 88 wrote: »

90 mins be out the window by july 20th. As by then you dont need buy food to go for a pint. But if before then you book 2 slots you need buy 2 meals as per rule at moment

Yeah exactly this. Works for operating as a restaurant. When you don't need to buy food for a pint then it just won't work

AdamD

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I believe you are wrong there, if the Gardai find that a pub is not compliant with the Restaurant licensing act then they have the power to shut it down..
So no pub owners will want to risk loosing that.

Pub owners will all know their local gardai quite well, they will be fully aware whether they can bend the rules or not before they open. I suspect it will be largely lip service in the countryside anyway, in city centers it may be enforced.

Harry Palmr

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

So each pub will have a Covid 19 warden wearing a green hi vis vest operating a card system

If you break the 2m rule for the first it's a yellow for your second offence you are asked to leave the premises

Really? Can the public refer an incident to VAR?

joeguevara

AdamD wrote: »

Pub owners will all know their local gardai quite well, they will be fully aware whether they can bend the rules or not before they open. I suspect it will be largely lip service in the countryside anyway, in city centers it may be enforced.

You find very few pubs in the countryside. Mainly fields and trees.

The thing is, based on what we know so far, Garda will have no right to enforce whether people are eating a lasagne or not. It’s guidelines. It’s in the name. Put it this way, Garda comes in and 4 lads at a table. Is he going to ask ‘in your own words, tell us exactly what you ate’.

It’s all a load of bs.

stephenjmcd

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Really? Can the public refer an incident to VAR?

Depends, maybe they'll adapt the policy of not going over to the little screen to review the incident.

Tenzor07

AdamD wrote: »

Pub owners will all know their local gardai quite well, they will be fully aware whether they can bend the rules or not before they open. I suspect it will be largely lip service in the countryside anyway, in city centers it may be enforced.

Yea that's only true in the case of a small rural village.

In the case of in Cities such as Dublin it's absolutely not the case.

Tenzor07

joeguevara wrote: »

Put it this way, if I went into a restaurant and wanted a salad for 3 euro and a glass of wine, that does not breach the restaurant licensing act.

I have one better for you.. the €9 rule is complete Bo**x!

(I) the sum (if any) that for the time being stands fixed under subsection (2) of this section, or


(II) if no sum stands fixed for the time being under the said subsection (2), five shillings.


(2) The Minister for Justice may from time to time, by order, fix such sum, being more than five shillings, as he considers reasonable for the purposes of subsection (1) of this section and may, by order, revoke or amend any order under this subsection.

stephenjmcd

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yea that's only true in the case of a small rural village.

In the case of in Cities such as Dublin it's absolutely not the case.

And come the 20th of July when they open up as pubs not restaurants will the Gardai be checking in every pub who's been in for 90 minutes? Will they fcuk.

The whole restaurant way or working works for the 3 weeks that they're effectively restaurants, not so much end of July when someone just wants a pint

Tenzor07

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And come the 20th of July when they open up as pubs not restaurants will the Gardai be checking in every pub who's been in for 90 minutes? Will they fcuk.The whole restaurant way or working works for the 3 weeks that they're effectively restaurants, not so much end of July when someone just wants a pint

Wait and see:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/publican-groups-call-for-full-release-of-pub-reopening-guidelines-1005725.html

jonnny68

was all excited about going back to the pub but if you've to pre book a table and only have 90 minutes whats the point, i think the first few days it'll be a novelty then people just wont botrher, whats the point going if you have a time limit:rolleyes:

will just wait it out until July 20th.

ShyMets

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Wait and see:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/publican-groups-call-for-full-release-of-pub-reopening-guidelines-1005725.html

I'm sure they'll be a certain token enforcement for the first couple of weeks. But assuming there is no major spike in cases that will stop very quickly

Whats this? An ill-thought out reactionary half-measure? Surely not!

gauchesnell

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Wait and see:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/publican-groups-call-for-full-release-of-pub-reopening-guidelines-1005725.html

not just the gardai the HSA will also be checking.

unrelated but the HSA have visited my workplace twice now and we arent even back in the office yet.

the guidelines and rules seem completely arseways though

stephenjmcd

jonnny68 wrote: »

was all excited about going back to the pub but if you've to pre book a table and only have 90 minutes whats the point, i think the first few days it'll be a novelty then people just wont botrher, whats the point going if you have a time limit:rolleyes:

will just wait it out until July 20th.

Always were going to have to pre book for the first 3 weeks when they're being run as restaurants and food service in order to get a pint.

If you just want a pint wait until 20th July

stephenjmcd

gauchesnell wrote: »

not just the gardai the HSA will also be checking.

unrelated but the HSA have visited my workplace twice now and we arent even back in the office yet.

the guidelines and rules seem completely arseways though

The HSA haven't enough staff to visit every business across every sector.

And i agree completely arseways

gauchesnell

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The HSA haven't enough staff to visit every business across every sector.

And i agree completely arseways

they have recruited loads and taking staff in from other areas so that they can review everyone. So its gardai and HSA. The cafe next door to me has been visited. A tanning salon back home opened and closed quickley by gardai.

complete arseways ****e guidelines. Some individual pubs are coming out with more logical rules - for the moment anyway.

stephenjmcd

gauchesnell wrote: »

they have recruited loads and taking staff in from other areas so that they can review everyone. So its gardai and HSA. The cafe next door to me has been visited. A tanning salon back home opened and closed quickley by gardai.

complete arseways ****e guidelines. Some individual pubs are coming out with more logical rules - for the moment anyway.

Come July 20th when pubs are allowed to open as pubs i can see some of these guidelines being widely flouted. In particular the 90 minute thing if that's still going, that's going to be the biggest one that'll be not adhered to.

Tables are going to be 1m apart probably, 90 minutes or not.

ShyMets

ShyMets wrote: »

We haven't had of those comments for a while:)

I'm going to picket the pubs when they open again.

..Down with this sort of thing..

ShineOn7

"Florida bars and restaurants close just a week after reopening amid new Covid spikes"


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/florida-bars-restaurants-close-coronavirus-spike-outbreak-a9568631.html





Ireland: "but shure it'll be grand" :rolleyes:

gauchesnell

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Come July 20th when pubs are allowed to open as pubs i can see some of these guidelines being widely flouted. In particular the 90 minute thing if that's still going, that's going to be the biggest one that'll be not adhered to.

Tables are going to be 1m apart probably, 90 minutes or not.

the 90 min thing is illogical. Like some stupid joke. It will be very hard to implement anything like what they have come out with so far when normal pubs reopen.

Our own pub isnt reopening - cant see how it would work with these stupid rules.

Pubs themselves are coming up with good ideas- normal and logical and workable

stephenjmcd

In relation to the 90 minute guideline on this morning earlier a professor from the Mater was on. When asked about people after 20th July going from one pub to another after 90 minutes he said according to RTE,

"When asked about the possibility of people moving from one pub to another every 90 minutes, he said this is bad behaviour and that the professional associations need to work to ensure that these things do not happen.'"

Bad behaviour to go to another pub apparently.

stephenjmcd

gauchesnell wrote: »

the 90 min thing is illogical. Like some stupid joke. It will be very hard to implement anything like what they have come out with so far when normal pubs reopen.

Our own pub isnt reopening - cant see how it would work with these stupid rules.

Pubs themselves are coming up with good ideas- normal and logical and workable

completely agree, it'll be near impossible to implement when normal pubs open 20th July. It'll be free reign to plan an organised pub crawl which brings more people in contact with each other rather than just staying in one pub.

Cork Boy 53

gauchesnell wrote: »

the 90 min thing is illogical. Like some stupid joke. It will be very hard to implement anything like what they have come out with so far when normal pubs reopen.

Our own pub isnt reopening - cant see how it would work with these stupid rules.

Pubs themselves are coming up with good ideas- normal and logical and workable

Such as what?

gauchesnell

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Such as what?

no bookings - first come first served for tables

contact less payment only

remaining seated unless heading to toilets.

minimum contact with staff

some will have 2 hour limit during peak times only

i.e those that I have seen opening on 29th

gauchesnell

stephenjmcd wrote: »

completely agree, it'll be near impossible to implement when normal pubs open 20th July. It'll be free reign to plan an organised pub crawl which brings more people in contact with each other rather than just staying in one pub.

near impossible but also why would you want to for customers or staff.

The amount of people being allowed in will be restricted like shops etc and seating only should help

stephenjmcd

gauchesnell wrote: »

near impossible but also why would you want to for customers or staff.

The amount of people being allowed in will be restricted like shops etc and seating only should help

Well thats it. If its 1m between tables you only have a certain number of tables you can fit in anyway. No standing etc.

Once the tables are full that's it the pub is full.

If people want to book tables for an hour, 2 hours, 3 hours then I wouldn't have an issue with that. Its the your done after 90 minutes stuff that's complete nonsense

gauchesnell

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well thats it. If its 1m between tables you only have a certain number of tables you can fit in anyway. No standing etc.

Once the tables are full that's it the pub is full.

If people want to book tables for an hour, 2 hours, 3 hours then I wouldn't have an issue with that. Its the your done after 90 minutes stuff that's complete nonsense

agree...seems normal and logical. Who the hell would want to sit in a pub for only 90 mins and you are out. Feck off.

I can understand the no music thing for a while but why cant pubs show sport or did I pick it up wrong.

No standing thing will be phased out in a few months hopefully and you are grand.

Leroy42

gauchesnell wrote: »

the 90 min thing is illogical. Like some stupid joke. It will be very hard to implement anything like what they have come out with so far when normal pubs reopen.

Our own pub isnt reopening - cant see how it would work with these stupid rules.

Pubs themselves are coming up with good ideas- normal and logical and workable

That is have the point of them. They want to limit the amounts of pubs that open. Originally all pubs were due to stay closed, but vitners asked that they be treated as restaurants, hence the 90 minute rule. IN a restaurant setting that is reasonable, not perfect but about average.

It why I don't understand the apparent annoyance over these rules. THey are not aimed at opening the pubs, they are aimed at limiting the effects of opening the pubs.

People need to stop thinking that the pubs are reopening on 29th. The doors may well be open, but it is really a restaurant in a pub setting that is opening, not the pub that you were in back in March.

gauchesnell

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is have the point of them. They want to limit the amounts of pubs that open. Originally all pubs were due to stay closed, but vitners asked that they be treated as restaurants, hence the 90 minute rule. IN a restaurant setting that is reasonable, not perfect but about average.

It why I don't understand the apparent annoyance over these rules. THey are not aimed at opening the pubs, they are aimed at limiting the effects of opening the pubs.

People need to stop thinking that the pubs are reopening on 29th. The doors may well be open, but it is really a restaurant in a pub setting that is opening, not the pub that you were in back in March.

good point. I think everyone is sick to death of Cov19 really. Rules and regulations everywhere and I dont think it is getting easier

stephenjmcd

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is have the point of them. They want to limit the amounts of pubs that open. Originally all pubs were due to stay closed, but vitners asked that they be treated as restaurants, hence the 90 minute rule. IN a restaurant setting that is reasonable, not perfect but about average.

It why I don't understand the apparent annoyance over these rules. THey are not aimed at opening the pubs, they are aimed at limiting the effects of opening the pubs.

People need to stop thinking that the pubs are reopening on 29th. The doors may well be open, but it is really a restaurant in a pub setting that is opening, not the pub that you were in back in March.

They need to publish the gudielines to cut out the grey areas. List the guidelines for the 29th June and then list the guidelines for 20th July for when the pubs open as pubs. If they try to include 90 mins for the 20th July it just won't work. All well and good while in the restaurant format though

gauchesnell

I think the people here on boards could write the regulations at this stage

stephenjmcd

gauchesnell wrote: »

I think the people here on boards could write the regulations at this stage

Problem partially is they're being drafted by health authorities firstly who wouldn't have a clue about the trade or business in general, how much Failte Ireland or any of the representative bodies, lva, vfi etc have in the input seems to be minimal overall.

Then said drafts get leaked, reception is poor and then they get redafted. The whole pattern of leaking to the media to see what the reaction is needs to stop

gauchesnell

yeah I can understand the concern but its becoming like Brexit now. Dragging on for months and nothing happening. Same for hairdressers etc and even my own workplace

I dont believe everyone is going to lose their minds when pubs reopen - people will be excited yeah but no one wants to go back to full lockdown.

Cork Boy 53

gauchesnell wrote: »

I think the people here on boards could write the regulations at this stage

Those that suit a certain point of view anyway.:rolleyes:

Question for all those who want pubs to reopen in the same way as before the virus appeared and have castigated the authorities for their policies on this issue.
For the sake of argument if there was a surge of new cases of the virus and this could be traced back to reopening of pubs with little or no measures in place or not being observed do you think it would be the correct decision to close pubs again be that localised or nationwide?

gauchesnell

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Those that suit a certain point of view anyway.:rolleyes:

Question for all who want pubs to reopen again and have castigated the authorities for their policies on this issue.
For the sake of argument if there was a surge of new cases of the virus and this could be traced back to reopening of pubs with little or no measures in place or not being observed do you think it would be the correct decision to close pubs again be that localised or nationwide?

localised closure for a short period (a day or two)- like what was happening in March. We need better contact tracing though.

This will happen though

Tenzor07

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

For the sake of argument if there was a surge of new cases of the virus and this could be traced back to reopening of pubs with little or no measures in place or not being observed do you think it would be the correct decision to close pubs again be that localised or nationwide?

Do they close Coppers for a spike in the numbers of STD's or Unplanned pregnancies?

No!

gauchesnell

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Do they close Coppers for a spike in the numbers of STD's or Unplanned pregnancies?

No!

eh I work in a university and we have localised closures for infectious diseases all the time

Not STDS or pregnancies

by localised I mean buildings

we had Cov19 back in March on campus and a different icky disease aswell

Cork Boy 53

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Do they close Coppers for a spike in the numbers of STD's or Unplanned pregnancies?

No!

Not relevant to what is being referred to here. Comparing the Covid -19 virus to that is a complete red herring.

double jobbing

ShineOn7 wrote: »

"Florida bars and restaurants close just a week after reopening amid new Covid spikes"


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/florida-bars-restaurants-close-coronavirus-spike-outbreak-a9568631.html





Ireland: "but shure it'll be grand" :rolleyes:

Do you have any idea how out of control this thing is in the US and the UK compared to here? The UK is re opening at roughly the same rate we are despite their daily infection rate being something like 200 times higher per capita than ours.

MOH

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is have the point of them. They want to limit the amounts of pubs that open. Originally all pubs were due to stay closed, but vitners asked that they be treated as restaurants, hence the 90 minute rule. IN a restaurant setting that is reasonable, not perfect but about average.

It why I don't understand the apparent annoyance over these rules. THey are not aimed at opening the pubs, they are aimed at limiting the effects of opening the pubs.

People need to stop thinking that the pubs are reopening on 29th. The doors may well be open, but it is really a restaurant in a pub setting that is opening, not the pub that you were in back in March.

I wouldn't book a meal in a restaurant that wanted the table back in 90 minutes. Nor would most people I know. It's certainly not average.

I've no problem with the pubs reopening as restaurants, but with some common sense. The only two things a 90 minute rule is going to achieve are
a) people moving on somewhere else and mixing with a different group of people, which is clearly not something we need. The notion that the industry is supposed to magically police this to prevent it happening shows the level of thought gone into this
b) people meeting up in groups in pubs, then going back to house parties. Which again, is worse

stephenjmcd

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Those that suit a certain point of view anyway.:rolleyes:

Question for all those who want pubs to reopen in the same way as before the virus appeared and have castigated the authorities for their policies on this issue.
For the sake of argument if there was a surge of new cases of the virus and this could be traced back to reopening of pubs with little or no measures in place or not being observed do you think it would be the correct decision to close pubs again be that localised or nationwide?

Who is saying open up as it was before ?? Everyone knows things will be different until there's a treatment or vaccine.

There's different and then theres borderline stupidity, sorry lads 90 minutes up, onto the next pub you go. Thats if the 90 minute thing is in place come 20th July, if its not then grand. When all the tables are full the pubs full, simple

mountgomery burns

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Those that suit a certain point of view anyway.:rolleyes:

Question for all those who want pubs to reopen in the same way as before the virus appeared and have castigated the authorities for their policies on this issue.
For the sake of argument if there was a surge of new cases of the virus and this could be traced back to reopening of pubs with little or no measures in place or not being observed do you think it would be the correct decision to close pubs again be that localised or nationwide?

Are there people arguing that though? Maybe one or two outliers, I think most people have said table service, and seating only managed through a booking system for pubs that expect big demand is the way to go?

Get rid of nonsense around having to have a meal in there, and if they have to have time limits again to cater for initial demand then make them reasonable. 90mins thing being bandied around this morning is farcical.

It's grand saying they are just doing to restrict numbers but if they put in measures that effectively make the business so difficult to operate and so unappealing for customers, they are basically as well off leaving them shuttered. Viability is a concern even with sensible measures to reduce risk, without imposing ideas that remove the appeal and demand completely.

Cork Boy 53

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Who is saying open up as it was before ?? Everyone knows things will be different until there's a treatment or vaccine.

There's different and then theres borderline stupidity, sorry lads 90 minutes up, onto the next pub you go. Thats if the 90 minute thing is in place come 20th July, if its not then grand. When all the tables are full the pubs full, simple

Many are calling for exactly that. I`m not suggesting that you`re one of them BTW. Anyway there are due to be official guidelines published on this in the next 24 hours or so. Maybe there will be some tweaks to address the issues you have raised.

gauchesnell

be interesting to see how staff are treated in the event of an outbreak. Say a pub had a to close for a day or two but all staff would need to quarantined for 14 days.

Leroy42

MOH wrote: »

I wouldn't book a meal in a restaurant that wanted the table back in 90 minutes. Nor would most people I know. It's certainly not average.

I've no problem with the pubs reopening as restaurants, but with some common sense. The only two things a 90 minute rule is going to achieve are
a) people moving on somewhere else and mixing with a different group of people, which is clearly not something we need. The notion that the industry is supposed to magically police this to prevent it happening shows the level of thought gone into this
b) people meeting up in groups in pubs, then going back to house parties. Which again, is worse

But these are not normal times as they. SOme new ways of doing things will need to be observed.

Many restaurants offer 2 hour sittings, particularly early bird, lunch etc. It isn't unusual. Of course one can argue about 90 minutes, but is another 30 minutes really going to make a massive difference?

Based on how pubs operate usually, when closing times are a suggestion to get last orders, the idea of 90 minutes is that people will always take extra time so 90 is a good way to aim for 100 or even 120.

Of course people can move on to somewhere else, but if 90 minutes annoyed them in the first pub, with the need to order food and probably wait for their table since people will constantly complain about being asked to leave after 90 minutes, then I doubt it is going to be a big problem.

House parties are perfectly acceptable, but people need to take personal responsibility. Don't go to a house party with more than 6, keep SD in operation. People go to house parties after normal pub hours so I don't see this as a major issue.

Tenzor07

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Not relevant to what is being referred to here. Comparing the Covid -19 virus to that is a complete red herring.

What are you trying to get at here then, you would love to see pubs being closed down for Covid unless there's a vaccine is it?

Cork Boy 53

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What are you trying to get at here then, you would love to see pubs being closed down for Covid unless there's a vaccine is it?

You made a nonsense comment about closing down Coppers because of a rise in STDs and unplanned pregnancies as if that is in any way comparable to the virus. Nice deflection attempt by you.

Leroy42

Tenzor07 wrote: »

What are you trying to get at here then, you would love to see pubs being closed down for Covid unless there's a vaccine is it?

It is not about what people want, nobody wanted the last 4 months.

It is what is acceptable, from a risk POV. I don't play play golf, more a GAA or soccer person, but one cannot deny that it is far less risky to allow golf clubs to reopen before GAA due to the nature of the games.

And, due to the nature of pubs, they pose a significantly higher risk profile than many other industries. But they have sought to make accommodations. Like take away pints and now restaurant openings.

If a pub cannot abide by the rules then they should remain closed until such time as they can. That is the new reality of where we are. Until a vaccine is found, or they find someway to erradicate it completely, then there is a risk.

The authorities, with the medical experts, have decided that this is the right approach.

ShooterSF

gauchesnell wrote: »

no bookings - first come first served for tables

contact less payment only

remaining seated unless heading to toilets.

minimum contact with staff

some will have 2 hour limit during peak times only

i.e those that I have seen opening on 29th

Just some points but every idea is going to have problems. No bookings definitely only works in urban areas where there are multiple pubs. I work in a bar where there isn't another in less than a 20 minute walk from it. How fast are you going to loose regular customers that walk 10-15 mins to the pub only to be told to turn around cause we're full. Imagine that happening to you on Friday night. You gonna walk down Saturday? They'll just stop trying to come down. And of course with bookings a time limit is necessary.

Also a lot of people don't want to pay with card in a pub, to do with concerns about bank loans and the likes and if we are doing table service and contactless every transaction our single card machine would be a huge bottleneck for service. I'd rather tables ran tabs like a restaurant. Cash is not too bad then as you just wash your hands after clearing a table.

And the remain seated part is definitely needed but I REALLY don't want to work in a job that has me telling people to sit down and behave. If I did I would have become a teacher, the pay is better for that hassle.

gauchesnell

ShooterSF wrote: »

Just some points but every idea is going to have problems. No bookings definitely only works in urban areas where there are multiple pubs. I work in a bar where there isn't another in less than a 20 minute walk from it. How fast are you going to loose regular customers that walk 10-15 mins to the pub only to be told to turn around cause we're full. Imagine that happening to you on Friday night. You gonna walk down Saturday? They'll just stop trying to come down. And of course with bookings a time limit is necessary.

Also a lot of people don't want to pay with card in a pub, to do with concerns about bank loans and the likes and if we are doing table service and contactless every transaction our single card machine would be a huge bottleneck for service. I'd rather tables ran tabs like a restaurant. Cash is not too bad then as you just wash your hands after clearing a table.

And the remain seated part is definitely needed but I REALLY don't want to work in a job that has me telling people to sit down and behave. If I did I would have become a teacher, the pay is better for that hassle.

Ah they were just an example I saw from a pub in Dublin. Our family pub (my parents pub) isnt reopening as its not feasible at present. I cant stand cash now but yeah in a pub it seems logical. Hopefully every pub can make certain rules themselves.

As for enforcing SD guidelines - yeah I dont know. People need cop on aswell as you need to protect yourself aswell.

one thing I have noticed is that its very hard to hear with those shields at the till. Maybe its me. We went to our local chipper recently and it was so hard to speak and hear from the outside.

Protect yourself though. I work with the public myself and when we are allowed back to work we wont be responsible for enforcing social distancing. Dont know who will yet but wont be us.