CoVid19 Part XIV - 8,089 in ROI (288 deaths) 1,589 in NI (92 deaths) (10/04) Read OP

fritzelly

population wrote: »

It's based on SARS Covid 1 outcomes. Those who survived had a whole host of problems when measured 10 years later. A lot didn't even make it to the 10 year mark also.

So in reality you are right, with SARS Covid 2 we don't know for sure but the long term health outcomes from it's nearest relative were not good.

But SARS was a far more aggressive virus - it's wrong to draw conclusions on that and compare this to it. The death rate in older people was also very high - literally a toss of the coin. Plus the infection rate was very low so no data on if it got milder, or would have, as it spread.

COVID is a lot milder, with a lot lower death rate - some outlier countries like Italy based on current figures but their fatality rate will likely drop in time.
Doesn't mean there won't be long term implications it's just a very big jump to conclude that (tho the "consultant" that used to frequent the thread gave everyone that caught it 10 years max to live)

The Floyd p

Mad how Boris Johnson is part of a party that critically under funds the NHS, and people are on this thread giving all their well wishes. If you want what's best on a per human being basis, you wouldn't maintain any sort of positive feeling towards this man and his party. Just goes to show you.

Corkgirl20

population wrote: »

It's based on SARS Covid 1 outcomes. Those who survived had a whole host of problems when measured 10 years later. A lot didn't even make it to the 10 year mark also.

So in reality you are right, with SARS Covid 2 we don't know for sure but the long term health outcomes from it's nearest relative were not good.

I think SARS had more of a long term mental impact than physical. It says that 40% of them developed PTSD and many of them also developed depressed and anxiety a small percentage had shortage of breath and lung disease in the long term.

population

fritzelly wrote: »

But SARS was a far more aggressive virus - it's wrong to draw conclusions on that and compare this to it. The death rate in older people was also very high - literally a toss of the coin. Plus the infection rate was very low so no data on if it got milder, or would have, as it spread.

COVID is a lot milder, with a lot lower death rate - some outlier countries like Italy based on current figures but their fatality rate will likely drop in time.
Doesn't mean there won't be long term implications it's just a very big jump to conclude that (tho the "consultant" that used to frequent the thread gave everyone that caught it 10 years max to live)

Agree with everything you say. I was just responding to the poster asking about predictions being made on long term outcomes and I heard both Peter Hotez and Michael Osterholm speaking on the Dr.Peter Attia podcast saying that this is what they are basing predictions on, however unsound that may be.

mandrake04

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Good question.

The numbers of recoveries seem low everywhere, but I think it's a time lag and the need to get a confirming negative test weeks after. Maybe the lack of that testing is keeping that figure low?

Might also give insight to the closed case cfr of 21%,, surely a vast overestimate.

I seen someone mention that recovery takes 2-3 weeks and in some countries hospitalised patients are only recovered and discharged as non-infectious if they test 2 clear throat swabs 24 hrs apart.

This is where proper testing is the key, its believed that early on in china that some patients thought to have caught it twice but more likely they were not 100% recovered.

00benski

A really good friend of mine well his mother passed away in a nursing home on Saturday. She has been extremely sick for a couple of months, had stopped eating etc. He was told a few weeks ago that she could pass away at any stage and prepare for the worst. Unfortunately during this time 2 people in the home tested positive for covid-19.

He or his family never got to say his goodbyes and her death had been put down as a Covid-19 death which he himself finds a bit strange considering she wasn't tested or had symptoms for it at all. He hasn't the energy to question this with authoritys yet but finds it hard to believe she died from that considering how sick she was, and not tested.

I am not for a minute saying this virus is not bad or anything like that but it does make me wonder about the death rate they are putting out daily, is it inflated for whatever reason? His mother was obviously one of them. Really sad times for him and his family.

Neamhshuntasach

Very similar to a close family friend in his 90s who has been sick on and off for weeks and were expected to pass soon. He's nearly died the past 3 years due to the flu and some other things. Nick named Lazarus due to how he keeps coming back. But he sadly passed the other day. There are a few covid cases in his nursing home. But he was never tested for it. Had some symptoms of it and that seems to be enough for his death to be classed as a covid 19 one. There's been 2 other deaths in there attributed to it also from the room he'd sit in. But they weren't confirmed cases either. Showed symptoms and then isolated to their room so the nurse told us.

Wonder how many deaths reported as covid 19 may be like this. Or if they are actually reported in the daily figures. My mam is like next of kin for him and was told it was cause of death anyways. If it's included, it could be a bit of a positive regards the death percentage being lower if there are deaths attributed to it but may not have been the actual cause. Also given there are most likely way more cases than officially recorded.

zinfandel

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Very similar to a close family friend in his 90s who has been sick on and off for weeks and were expected to pass soon. He's nearly died the past 3 years due to the flu and some other things. Nick named Lazarus due to how he keeps coming back. But he sadly passed the other day. There are a few covid cases in his nursing home. But he was never tested for it. Had some symptoms of it and that seems to be enough for his death to be classed as a covid 19 one. There's been 2 other deaths in there attributed to it also from the room he'd sit in. But they weren't confirmed cases either. Showed symptoms and then isolated to their room so the nurse told us.

Wonder how many deaths reported as covid 19 may be like this. Or if they are actually reported in the daily figures. My mam is like next of kin for him and was told it was cause of death anyways. If it's included, it could be a bit of a positive regards the death percentage being lower if there are deaths attributed to it but may not have been the actual cause. Also given there are most likely way more cases than officially recorded.

It would be good if they separated the number of deaths in nursing homes, especially if like a few of the above cases they were not sure about, hopefully blood samples will be analysed. There are many nursing home deaths every week in Ireland in a regular year, so a year on year comparison would be good.

Sweet.Science

The Floyd p wrote: »

Mad how Boris Johnson is part of a party that critically under funds the NHS, and people are on this thread giving all their well wishes. If you want what's best on a per human being basis, you wouldn't maintain any sort of positive feeling towards this man and his party. Just goes to show you.

Do you want him to die ?

facehugger99

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Wonder how many deaths reported as covid 19 may be like this. Or if they are actually reported in the daily figures. My mam is like next of kin for him and was told it was cause of death anyways. If it's included, it could be a bit of a positive regards the death percentage being lower if there are deaths attributed to it but may not have been the actual cause. Also given there are most likely way more cases than officially recorded.

A large percentage I'd imagine.

In a few years when they compare the death rates in 2019 and 2021 with the one in 2020, there will be very little difference is my prediction.

callaway92

The Floyd p wrote: »

Mad how Boris Johnson is part of a party that critically under funds the NHS, and people are on this thread giving all their well wishes. If you want what's best on a per human being basis, you wouldn't maintain any sort of positive feeling towards this man and his party. Just goes to show you.

I get where you're coming from seeing that it feels like a lot of people who have vehemently been blasting Boris Johnson over the last while are now well-wishing him and it's all a bit fake..

However I'd probably recommend keeping the feeling to yourself because it comes across horribly.

Inquitus

Another day, another 8+ hours working from my sofa, trying to keep the kids quiet while I am on my conf calls, maybe a walk with the dog for a lunchbreak. How life has changed in a month or so! That said, while the kids are a bit stir crazy, its not the end of the world, we can cope with this for as long as we have to. I genuinely feel sorry for anyone high risk who lives alone, that would be very hard.

patnor1011

According to the latest data of the Italian National Health Institute ISS, the average age of the positively-tested deceased in Italy is currently about 81 years. 10% of the deceased are over 90 years old. 90% of the deceased are over 70 years old.

80% of the deceased had suffered from two or more chronic diseases. 50% of the deceased had suffered from three or more chronic diseases. The chronic diseases include in particular cardiovascular problems, diabetes, respiratory problems and cancer.

Less than 1% of the deceased were healthy persons, i.e. persons without pre-existing chronic diseases. Only about 30% of the deceased are women.

The Italian Institute of Health moreover distinguishes between those who died from the coronavirus and those who died with the coronavirus. In many cases it is not yet clear whether the persons died from the virus or from their pre-existing chronic diseases or from a combination of both.

The two Italians deceased under 40 years of age (both 39 years old) were a cancer patient and a diabetes patient with additional complications. In these cases, too, the exact cause of death was not yet clear (i.e. if from the virus or from their pre-existing diseases).

patnor1011

Northern Italy has one of the oldest populations and the worst air quality in Europe, which has already led to an increased number of respiratory diseases and deaths in the past and is likely an additional risk factor in the current epidemic.

South Korea, for instance, has experienced a much milder course than Italy and has already passed the peak of the epidemic. In South Korea, only about 70 deaths with a positive test result have been reported so far. As in Italy, those affected were mostly high-risk patients.

The few dozen test-positive Swiss deaths so far were also high-risk patients with chronic diseases, an average age of more than 80 years and a maximum age of 97 years, whose exact cause of death, i.e. from the virus or from their pre-existing diseases, is not yet known.

Furthermore, according to a first Chinese study, the internationally used virus test kits may give a false positive result in some cases. In these cases, the persons may not have contracted the new coronavirus, but presumably one of the many existing human coronaviruses that are part of the annual (and currently ongoing) common cold and flu epidemics. (1)

Thus the most important indicator for judging the danger of the disease is not the frequently reported number of positively-tested persons and deaths, but the number of persons actually and unexpectedly developing or dying from pneumonia (so-called excess mortality).

According to all current data, for the healthy general population of school and working age, a mild to moderate course of the Covid-19 disease can be expected. Senior citizens and persons with existing chronic diseases should be protected. The medical capacities should be optimally prepared.

patnor1011

and much more...

source:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/swiss-doctor-covid-19/5707642

Are you scared from convid19?
Read and open your eyes.

crisco10

facehugger99 wrote: »

A large percentage I'd imagine.

In a few years when they compare the death rates in 2019 and 2021 with the one in 2020, there will be very little difference is my prediction.

Here's that data from bergamo.

Wibbs

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Wonder how many deaths reported as covid 19 may be like this. Or if they are actually reported in the daily figures. My mam is like next of kin for him and was told it was cause of death anyways. If it's included, it could be a bit of a positive regards the death percentage being lower if there are deaths attributed to it but may not have been the actual cause. Also given there are most likely way more cases than officially recorded.

There's also the other angle, where you could have hidden deaths in the elderly from Covid being written down as "pneumonia". Unless we test all cases we won't really know. Even then you could have someone pass away from bacterial pneumonia, but test positive for Covid where it was a mild or asymptomatic example, so they died with it not from it.

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

and much more...

source:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/swiss-doctor-covid-19/5707642

Are you scared from convid19?
Read and open your eyes.

You're linking to a conspiracy website... Provide a reliable resource if you're gonna make claims.

Gynoid

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Do you want him to die ?

A story I read today. When Ronald Reagan was brought to the emergency room after an attempt was made to assassinate him, he said to the waiting doctors, I hope you are Republicans. A doctor answered, Sir, tonight we are all Republicans.
Those were apparently more graceful humane times before identity politics had launched a billion petty ideologues.

I at least respect someone who is full frontal psychopathic, spelling it out that they hate someone simply for ideological reasons and do not care if they die. Given their honesty I can accept them and avoid them.

It is the mealy-mouthed closeted psychopaths that are less deserving of respect, in my opinion. Inclined towards pure hatred of another human being merely for ideological reasons, and yet dividing their commiseration offerings with a cowardly "but".

Eg I hate him but I hope he does not die.

This is not an expression of the rightful contempt one can properly feel for an actual evil person, or the indifference for such an evil person's fate. This is petty ideological hatred which stains one's moral nature and is inhuman.

At least such people should have the guts to fully commit to such inhumanity. It cannot be an inoffensive condiment occasionally shaken on the imaginary goodness of a character. It is a graceless stain which should be owned.

careless sherpa

Gynoid wrote: »

A story I read today. When Ronald Reagan was brought to the emergency room after an attempt was made to assassinate him, he said to the waiting doctors, I hope you are Republicans. A doctor answered, Sir, tonight we are all Republicans.
Those were apparently more graceful humane times before identity politics had launched a billion petty ideologues.

I at least respect someone who is full frontal psychopathic, spelling it out that they hate someone simply for ideological reasons and do not care if they die. Given their honesty I can accept them and avoid them.

It is the mealy-mouthed closeted psychopaths that are less deserving of respect, in my opinion. Inclined towards pure hatred of another human being merely for ideological reasons, and yet dividing their commiseration offerings with a cowardly "but".

Eg I hate him but I hope he does not die.

This is not an expression of the rightful contempt one can properly feel for an actual evil person, or the indifference for such an evil person's fate. This is petty ideological hatred which stains one's moral nature and is inhuman.

At least such people should have the guts to fully commit to such inhumanity. It cannot be an inoffensive condiment occasionally shaken on the imaginary goodness of a character. It is a graceless stain which should be owned.

Utter tripe. I imagine the vast majority of people couldn't care less and why should they

patnor1011

Deleted User wrote: »

You're linking to a conspiracy website... Provide a reliable resource if you're gonna make claims.

Seriously? Everything they stated can be reliably verified if you take your time and use google.
Try to shoot the message and not the messenger. Open your eyes and do something yourself other than expecting to be spoon-fed.

Gynoid

careless sherpa wrote: »

Utter tripe. I imagine the vast majority of people couldn't care less and why should they

Because they purport to be human beings? If one becomes callously indifferent to another human's endangerment then it is oneself that is diminished.
But on you go. Be your self. I am just expressing how I see it. Which may not be how most see it.

GM228

Discodog wrote: »

Confirmed by who ?

It was confirmed by the Hong Kong Government's Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department.

Here's the official press release:-

https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/202002/28/P2020022800013.htm

A domestic cat in Belgium also tested positive late March.

The media reporting of the Tiger in NY being the first confirmed animal is simply incorrect.

Bob24

patnor1011 wrote: »

According to the latest data of the Italian National Health Institute ISS, the average age of the positively-tested deceased in Italy is currently about 81 years. 10% of the deceased are over 90 years old. 90% of the deceased are over 70 years old.

80% of the deceased had suffered from two or more chronic diseases. 50% of the deceased had suffered from three or more chronic diseases. The chronic diseases include in particular cardiovascular problems, diabetes, respiratory problems and cancer.

Less than 1% of the deceased were healthy persons, i.e. persons without pre-existing chronic diseases. Only about 30% of the deceased are women.

The Italian Institute of Health moreover distinguishes between those who died from the coronavirus and those who died with the coronavirus. In many cases it is not yet clear whether the persons died from the virus or from their pre-existing chronic diseases or from a combination of both.

The two Italians deceased under 40 years of age (both 39 years old) were a cancer patient and a diabetes patient with additional complications. In these cases, too, the exact cause of death was not yet clear (i.e. if from the virus or from their pre-existing diseases).

As you say this, do also remember that in many Italian hospitals and due to limited ressources, only patients with the highest changes of survival have been offered treatment (meaning that for many older patients and patients with underlying conditions they received no or subpar treatment vs what other patients received or what they would have received in a non-saturated health system).

So the stats you are looking at are representative of a situation whereby certain categories of patients didn’t receive the same level of care than others, which obviously exacerbates the natural trend.

careless sherpa

Gynoid wrote: »

Because they purport to be human beings? If one becomes callously indifferent to another human's endangerment then it is oneself that is diminished.
But on you go. Be your self. I am just expressing how I see it. Which may not be how most see it.

Offering platitudes on social media does not impact the outcome for someone one bit. Political decisions taken weeks ago is determining sickness and death rates now.

screamer

Bob24 wrote: »

As you say this, do also remember that in many Italian hospitals and due to limited ressources, only patients with the highest changes of survival have been offered treatment (meaning that for many older patients and patients with underlying conditions they received no or subpar treatment vs what other patients received or what they would have received in a non-saturated health system).

So the stats you are looking at are representative of a situation whereby certain categories of patients didn’t receive the same level of care than others, which obviously exacerbates the natural trend.

It’s happening here too, just that the older people with little chance of survival with covid 19 are being given palliative care in their nursing homes, so we should be very worried about the clusters in the nursing homes.

patnor1011

Bob24 wrote: »

As you say this, do also remember that in many Italian hospitals and due to limited ressources, only patients with the highest changes of survival have been offered treatment (meaning that for many older patients and patients with underlying conditions they received no or subpar treatment vs what other patients received or what they would have received in a non-saturated health system).

So the stats you are looking at are representative of a situation whereby certain categories of patients didn’t receive the same level of care than others, which obviously exacerbates the natural trend.

This. And also simple fact that close to 80% of cases are asymptomatic make you wonder why there is any need for lockdown? Italy is a bad example really as their health system is close to collapse pretty much every year when influenza is in season. Same goes for Spain - retirement destination for elderly from most of the europe. They have the same problems in every flu season.
And testing? Well even test manufacturer sell it with little disclaimer that they are intended for research use only, not for use in diagnostic procedures.
What is going on seriously?

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375

Sir Oxman

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-more-striking-evidence-bcg-vaccine-might-protect-against-covid-19-1.4222110

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Seriously? Everything they stated can be reliably verified if you take your time and use google.
Try to shoot the message and not the messenger. Open your eyes and do something yourself other than expecting to be spoon-fed.

I looked, most of the stuff written on the page seems to be speculation based on stats. So yep, no way am I giving credibility to odd conspiracy sites that are attempting to claim the virus isn't so bad.

petes

careless sherpa wrote: »

Offering platitudes on social media does not impact the outcome for someone one bit.

So we can't wish someone well now (regardless of who it is towards)?

More and more I despair for some posters on this thread including the one quoted.