CoVid19 Part XIV - 8,089 in ROI (288 deaths) 1,589 in NI (92 deaths) (10/04) Read OP

Naggdefy

hotmail.com wrote: »

That decision has since been reversed.

Well that's good.

I believe it's a really important subject if we are to learn lessons for the future.

Drumpot

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

If you read the article posted you would see that it's not simply due to the fact that the virus originated in China, it's because the CCP covered it up for weeks.

So if a virus outbreaks in Ireland and then we cover it up for weeks and allow it to spread around to world you can sure as hell guarantee we would face consequences.

So China come out in November or December to say there is a disease outbreak. What changes?

Countries waited for weeks to do anything about it so I’m not sure how “China covering it up” did anymore damage outside of their own country. If anything it’s the people of China who suffered more damage then countries outside that didn’t take it seriously....

China gave most western democracy countries weeks to prepare for it, a couple of extra weeks would of made no difference. We all wasted that time and are struggling because of our response, not because China covered anything up.

bekker

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

If you read the article posted you would see that it's not simply due to the fact that the virus originated in China, it's because the CCP covered it up for weeks.

So if a virus outbreaks in Ireland and then we cover it up for weeks and allow it to spread around to world you can sure as hell guarantee we would face consequences.

Please check out sources. Henry Jackson Society is a neoconservative British foreign policy think tank, check some of their previous.

The US and China have been sniping back and forth at each other for months over whose lab was responsible for an accidental release.

US Army Lab in Texas, was ordered to close in Sept. '19 on H&S grounds, Chinese opened new lab in Wuhan in Dec. '19.

There is as yet no evidence how virus transfer was effected nor the originating species of the virus, current prime suspect is pangolin.

What appears solid is that all genetic ids track back to Wuhan cluster.

Whether that was origin, or animal/human transfer had occurred prior to that, is currently being investigated, though a conclusion is unlikely.

RugbyLad11

Drumpot wrote: »

So China come out in November or December to say there is a disease outbreak. What changes?

Countries waited for weeks to do anything about it so I’m not sure how “China covering it up” did anymore damage outside of their own country. If anything it’s the people of China who suffered more damage then countries outside that didn’t take it seriously....

What about China insisting for weeks that the virus could not be spread human to human and while they were saying this they had Chinese businesses abroad buying all the local masks and sending them back to China.

Naggdefy

You could draw parallels between blaming China for Covid 19 and blaming Germany for WW1. The Versailles Conference crippled Germany with reparations. Leading to Hitler coming to power and WW2.

Those are valuable lessons from history my friends.

owlbethere

Of the recent new cases how much of it is community spread?

redarmy

Simon Harris TD
@SimonHarrisTD
·
2m
Will do a quick twitter live update from
@roinnslainte
at 4.30pm #coronavirus #Covid19

Drumpot

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

What about China insisting for weeks that the virus could not be spread human to human and while they were saying this they had Chinese businesses abroad buying all the local masks and sending them back to China.

What about all the countries now suiting themselves when the pressure is on. Germany and USA commandeering stock for themselves. What about everybody being told not to buy masks cause they are useless and now it seems that was a lie...

Let’s not pretend China is the only country that will suit itself. You can’t hold one country to a higher level of morals and excuse others.

And you are just shifting goalposts because you can’t fathom that this is a global problem that’s been predicted for decades. Whether it started in China or USA (where some think the Spanish flu originated), it serves no purpose to blame them or sue them. It’s pathetic deflection of responsibility we all have to find a global solution.

podgeandrodge

bekker wrote: »

Would have been of same opinion weeks ago, first report was based on microdroplet spread laser tracking following a sneeze, and it was quite a sneeze.

But have seen further report more recently (from Japan AFAIR) which was based on microdroplet spread of expiration at normal conversational levels.

Was in properly spaced supermarket access queue early this morning, with about 15 other people in an arcade, some chatting back and forth, a
all complying with guidelines, still won't be going there again.

Time will tell I guess. I remain hopeful that relatively minor contact, rather than the so called definition of 'close' contact, is a reasonably small risk. If I start to hear of supermarket staff getting the virus I will worry a lot more!

Speaking of which, I still think that measurement of contracting this by supermarket staff would be very useful in terms of assessing the ease of contracting this through ad hoc contact.

RugbyLad11

Drumpot wrote: »

What about all the countries now suiting themselves when the pressure is on. Germany and USA commandeering stock for themselves. What about everybody being told not to buy masks cause they are useless and now it seems that was a lie...

Let’s not pretend China is the only country that will suit itself. You can’t hold one country to a higher level of morals and excuse others.

And you are just shifting goalposts because you can’t fathom that this is a global problem that’s been predicted for decades. Whether it started in China or USA (where some think the Spanish flu originated), it serves no purpose to blame them or sue them. It’s pathetic deflection of responsibility we all have to find a global solution.

But don't you understand that this most likely would've never been a global problem if China acted sooner and didn't cover it up

Study suggests number of cases could have been cut by 66% if China had acted a week earlier

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/research-finds-huge-impact-of-interventions-on-spread-of-covid-19

Drumpot

Naggdefy wrote: »

You could draw parallels between blaming China for Covid 19 and blaming Germany for WW1. The Versailles Conference crippled Germany with reparations. Leading to Hitler coming to power and WW2.

Those are valuable lessons from history my friends.

Very good point.

There’s also The Thucydides Trap that may be sped up if Trump keeps this China blame bullsh*t narrative.

rossie1977

Thousands had been reported killed by the disease in China in January and February.

This is how the people in charge and the most watched us cable channel were dealing with it..

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1246146713523453957

Downlinz

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

But don't you understand that this most likely would've never been a global problem if China acted sooner and didn't cover it up

Study suggests number of cases could have been cut by 66% if China had acted a week earlier

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/research-finds-huge-impact-of-interventions-on-spread-of-covid-19

You could point to any link on the chain for when and where countries could have acted sooner. If Italy acted sooner it probably wouldn't have spread so wildly across Europe.
If any country didn't like how another country were containing it they could have shut their borders or entered lockdown sooner. It's entirely an individual countries responsibility for their cases and pointless to try and pass blame.

Drumpot

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

But don't you understand that this most likely would've never been a global problem if China acted sooner and didn't cover it up

Study suggests number of cases could have been cut by 66% if China had acted a week earlier

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/research-finds-huge-impact-of-interventions-on-spread-of-covid-19

How bad would the global issue be if western democracies had responded better to the many weeks warnings they were given ? A crisis is a crisis, when you reflect back you will Always find things that could of been done better.

You see you can turn this around to whatever narrative you want. Mistakes are made in all countries, not just China. It’s easier to hold them to a standard we don’t even hold ourselves to because they are different.

What about trump calling it a hoax? Do you think he will face the death penalty for failing to act much much quicker? He has sentenced thousands of America’s to their death because of his response. That’s why it suits him to blame the Chinese.

This whole “blame China” narrative is unhelpful and doesn’t Yield any benefits. And unless you hold every other country to account for it’s own reaction you are simply singling out one country cause it suits. We are responsible for how we reacted after the information came out from China so I don’t believe many countries will look good in that spotlight. That’s why they will be happy to shift that spotlight onto China , not because it’s the right thing to do, but it takes the attention off their own response.

Naggdefy

Drumpot wrote: »

Very good point.

There’s also The Thucydides Trap that may be sped up if Trump keeps this China blame bullsh*t narrative.

And in fairness post WW2 world leaders did learn from Versailles. You had stick and carrot. Nuremberg to make certain behaviours in war crimes against humanity. But the general population of Germany or Italy weren't blamed. You had Marshall aid and the reconstruction of Europe.

It eventually led to the EU. Whereby old foes France and Germany united for the benefit of all. The UK were entitled to Brexit if they wanted. However we may lose the core ideal of the Treaty of Rome 1957, the unification of Europe in a way that would prevent future European wars.

Drumpot

Naggdefy wrote: »

And in fairness post WW2 world leaders did learn from Versailles. You had stick and carrot. Nuremberg to make certain behaviours in war crimes against humanity. But the general population of Germany or Italy weren't blamed. You had Marshall aid and the reconstruction of Europe.

It eventually led to the EU. Whereby old foes France and Germany united for the benefit of all. The UK were entitled to Brexit if they wanted. However we may lose the core ideal of the Treaty of Rome 1957, the unification of Europe in a way that would prevent future European wars.

Agreed. This is why history is so important.

There are huge gaps appearing in Europe now with countries going it alone. The hold out on some sort of emergency bonds for Italy and Spain is creating further divisions. This whole austere fiscal mantra from Germany could be the end of the EU.

Our generation is oblivious to the real pain suffered to forge stability.

cj maxx

Drumpot wrote: »

Never ceases to amaze me the absolute idiocy of humanity at times... “Let’s focus on blaming somebody so we don’t have to take any responsibility for the way we have handled this crisis. Doesn’t matter it’s effectively a natural disaster, let’s hold the entire country of China accountable.”.

There is a pandemic sweeping around the world. Most countries are struggling to handle it. There is no vaccine and still an awful lot unknown about the virus. Economies have been shut down. People are being told to stay indoors. What should we do ?

“Let’s sue China because the disease came from that country.”

FFS. So a disease breaks out in Ireland because a farmer rides a pig, is Ireland responsible for that outbreak? It’s such a Xenophobic mindset, it’s no wonder we always end up waging stupid wars....

Cavan men again

Naggdefy

Drumpot wrote: »

Agreed. This is why history is so important.

There are huge gaps appearing in Europe now with countries going it alone. The hold out on some sort of emergency bonds for Italy and Spain is creating further divisions. This whole austere fiscal mantra from Germany could be the end of the EU.

Our generation is oblivious to the real pain suffered to forge stability.

I mentioned the possible demise of the EU on here a few weeks ago and was met with derision.

Since 2016 we've seen nationalism raise its head in many forms around the world. From Brexit, Trump, our own vote for Peter Casey in the presidential election.

thecretinhop

Drumpot wrote: »

How bad would the global issue be if western democracies had responded better to the many weeks warnings they were given ? A crisis is a crisis, when you reflect back you will Always find things that could of been done better.

You see you can turn this around to whatever narrative you want. Mistakes are made in all countries, not just China. It’s easier to hold them to a standard we don’t even hold ourselves to because they are different.

What about trump calling it a hoax? Do you think he will face the death penalty for failing to act much much quicker? He has sentenced thousands of America’s to their death because of his response. That’s why it suits him to blame the Chinese.

This whole “blame China” narrative is unhelpful and doesn’t Yield any benefits. And unless you hold every other country to account for it’s own reaction you are simply singling out one country cause it suits. We are responsible for how we reacted after the information came out from China so I don’t believe many countries will look good in that spotlight. That’s why they will be happy to shift that spotlight onto China , not because it’s the right thing to do, but it takes the attention off their own response.

what utter rubbish.

Discodog

Naggdefy wrote: »

You could draw parallels between blaming China for Covid 19 and blaming Germany for WW1. The Versailles Conference crippled Germany with reparations. Leading to Hitler coming to power and WW2.

Those are valuable lessons from history my friends.

What parallels ? There is nothing to compare the Versailles Treaty with China ignoring countless warnings & allowing bad & inhumane practices to continue for decades.

We need to insist that World nations comply with health practices that have Wold wide consequences.

Professor Moriarty

thecretinhop wrote: »

what utter rubbish.

Great post. A thoughtful, informative and insightful point by point rebuttal.

frillyleaf

Drumpot wrote: »

How bad would the global issue be if western democracies had responded better to the many weeks warnings they were given ? A crisis is a crisis, when you reflect back you will Always find things that could of been done better.

You see you can turn this around to whatever narrative you want. Mistakes are made in all countries, not just China. It’s easier to hold them to a standard we don’t even hold ourselves to because they are different.

What about trump calling it a hoax? Do you think he will face the death penalty for failing to act much much quicker? He has sentenced thousands of America’s to their death because of his response. That’s why it suits him to blame the Chinese.

This whole “blame China” narrative is unhelpful and doesn’t Yield any benefits. And unless you hold every other country to account for it’s own reaction you are simply singling out one country cause it suits. We are responsible for how we reacted after the information came out from China so I don’t many countries will look good in that spotlight. That’s why they will be happy to shift that spotlight onto China , not because it’s the right thing to do, but it takes the attention off their own response.

I agree with most of what you have said but lessons must be learned from this. Animal welfare issues must be addressed for all countries including our own

john why

What time is the press conference today folks.

Discodog

Phoebas wrote: »

China isn't going to be 'sued' (whatever that even means) and China isn't going to be paying compensation.

We need to be concentrating on our own problems, not looking for a dog to kick.

But, when this is over, the World needs to reduce the chances of it ever happening again. Hopefully the damage to China's economy will make them act....but I doubt it. There is something than runs very deep & often in the minds of the wealthy, that believe in "Traditional" medicine.

Naggdefy

Discodog wrote: »

What parallels ? There is nothing to compare the Versailles Treaty with China ignoring countless warnings & allowing bad & inhumane practices to continue for decades.

Yes there are. Look at the blame game on this thread.

Who decides what inhumane practices are versus a country's culture, you?

Look at the west. Most purport to love dogs. Why do people keep them restricted all day and only take them for a walk when it pleases the owner? Is that not abuse. Shouldn't a dog be free to run around in a larger area? It's the culture of the West to restrict a dog's freedom for our ends.

CIARAN_BOYLE

john why wrote: »

What time is the press conference today folks.

No press conference on weekends. A statement is usually released to journalists sometime between 5:30 and 6:00.

fritzelly

I cannot imagine any other politician doing this several times a day, taking time out to answer kids questions and come across as very personable and affable

https://twitter.com/SimonHarrisTD/status/1246822462546939907

podgeandrodge

.

Sweet.Science

Staff in temple street are being forced to take annual leave its so quiet . Never thought I'd see the day

Doctors room ghost

Have ye all the tricolour flying??