American response

Penn

Boggles wrote: »

Georgia's Governor about to play high stakes poker with a bluff hand.

But at least the tattoo parlours will be back open.

The big issue is that if the lockdown is lifted, it means people can't get unemployment benefits arising from the lockdown. So even if people wanted to stay home or keep their business closed due to lower chances of not being able to keep social distancing practices etc, they can't. So either they stay home for their own or their employees safety but get no unemployment benefits, or they go to work. Plus if you own a business and your competitors are able to operate, you risk losing your clients to them if you don't operate too.

So this is all just to save money, the virus will be able to run rampant, and if people die, they die.

The idea that they've twisted the public opinion in some of these cities/states that people are literally protesting to be able to do this.... is insane. The country is broken beyond repair.

Leroy42

^^^Bingo

threeball

Wibbs wrote: »

Trump has a massive and delicate ego. I suspect to get any sort of time or response from him requires arse licking. he wants yes men and women. Add in the respect for the office of president itself in many, if not most Americans have and you'll get some level of fawning. The respect for that office is way more than we'd have for our Taoiseach for example.

All the infighting over there is genuinely sad to watch and shows how much America has slid. Not so long ago events like 9/11 united the country even though it "only" hit a couple of places directly and killed far fewer than this virus had up to now. America has been divided before, along race and financial lines, and attacked before, but overall there was a self confidence. Not so much now. You can't on the one hand claim the "best healthcare on earth" when its inadequacies and inequalities are laid so bare every day.

I agree and you do need some level of placation but she takes it too far. Its like shes talking to some sort of deity.
Trump claims the US at best at everything, not once has he been challenged on this by the press. Its an American obsession to believe they are the best at everything even down to the way they call their national champions World Champions. It shows a very fragile mentality across the nation that has to believe they are better at everything and better than everyone. When its shown not to be the case they can't seem to hack it. Therefore this narrative is built up and pushed by the media so theres no real constructed criticism, which leaves any criticism looking like its just one side of the divide bitching about the other.

Why for example has no one ever pulled him up on his claims they are testing more than any other country. Theres 10 countries they could use that are far in excess of the US on every metric.

Billy Mays

"We've done more tests than all the other countries combined"

Number of tests done in USA: 4m
Number of tests done in other countries combined: 25m

Stop lying you orange f*cking mess

Leroy42

threeball wrote: »

I agree and you do need some level of placation but she takes it too far. Its like shes talking to some sort of deity.
Trump claims the US at best at everything, not once has he been challenged on this by the press. Its an American obsession to believe they are the best at everything even down to the way they call their national champions World Champions. It shows a very fragile mentality across the nation that has to believe they are better at everything and better than everyone. When its shown not to be the case they can't seem to hack it. Therefore this narrative is built up and pushed by the media so theres no real constructed criticism, which leaves any criticism looking like its just one side of the divide bitching about the other.

Why for example has no one ever pulled him up on his claims they are testing more than any other country. Theres 10 countries they could use that are far in excess of the US on every metric.

I actually like that they have the belief that they are the best at everything, and that the world revolves around them.

There is, IMO, nothing inherently wrong in that form of confidence.

The problem is, as you point out, then when faced with the argument that they aren't the best they either spend more money on or simply ignore the facts.

The military, IMO, is a major example of it. Throw more money at it so that we can have the most expensive without any, at least outwardly, signs that they are learning lesssons.

The Covid is a perfect example. The $50bn extra a year that Trump loudly and proudly boasted about could have placed in the US in a perfect position to deal with this crisis. No lack of vents, no lack of PPE, the labs to undertake testing etc.

Soccer is another example. They tried to get good, failed so turned off it again. I don't believe it is because it is too boring, it is simply because they know it will many many years before they can even hope to compete at the top level so why bother.

Washout

threeball wrote: »

I agree and you do need some level of placation but she takes it too far. Its like shes talking to some sort of deity.
Trump claims the US at best at everything, not once has he been challenged on this by the press. Its an American obsession to believe they are the best at everything even down to the way they call their national champions World Champions. It shows a very fragile mentality across the nation that has to believe they are better at everything and better than everyone. When its shown not to be the case they can't seem to hack it. Therefore this narrative is built up and pushed by the media so theres no real constructed criticism, which leaves any criticism looking like its just one side of the divide bitching about the other.

Why for example has no one ever pulled him up on his claims they are testing more than any other country. Theres 10 countries they could use that are far in excess of the US on every metric.

This is so true... the first 10 minutes of the tv series the newsroom was supposed to be a reality check on their claim to be the greatest country in the world

Harry Palmr

Boggles wrote: »

Georgia's Governor about to play high stakes poker with a bluff hand.

But at least the tattoo parlours will be back open.

Apart from prostitution and dentistry there a more intimate line of work? :eek:

People have been saying Sweden is like a petri dish for the world to watch and wonder about, actually it's the USA. With some states reopening and others not one imagines state lines might become state barriers.

threeball

Leroy42 wrote: »

I actually like that they have the belief that they are the best at everything, and that the world revolves around them.

There is, IMO, nothing inherently wrong in that form of confidence.

The problem is, as you point out, then when faced with the argument that they aren't the best they either spend more money on or simply ignore the facts.

The military, IMO, is a major example of it. Throw more money at it so that we can have the most expensive without any, at least outwardly, signs that they are learning lesssons.

The Covid is a perfect example. The $50bn extra a year that Trump loudly and proudly boasted about could have placed in the US in a perfect position to deal with this crisis. No lack of vents, no lack of PPE, the labs to undertake testing etc.

Soccer is another example. They tried to get good, failed so turned off it again. I don't believe it is because it is too boring, it is simply because they know it will many many years before they can even hope to compete at the top level so why bother.

Confidence is good. Misplaced confidence is just a form of self delusion. Sport is a good example. They run a mile from anything they don't think they can win almost immediately.

Feeding your populace with a superiority complex is no less damaging than constantly telling your kids they're winners and you see the mess that has created when they hit the real world. The US think they will overcome anything just by being them. Covid has exposed that mindset for what it is.

Stateofyou

Leroy42 wrote: »

I actually like that they have the belief that they are the best at everything, and that the world revolves around them.

There is, IMO, nothing inherently wrong in that form of confidence.

The problem is, as you point out, then when faced with the argument that they aren't the best they either spend more money on or simply ignore the facts.

The military, IMO, is a major example of it. Throw more money at it so that we can have the most expensive without any, at least outwardly, signs that they are learning lesssons.

The Covid is a perfect example. The $50bn extra a year that Trump loudly and proudly boasted about could have placed in the US in a perfect position to deal with this crisis. No lack of vents, no lack of PPE, the labs to undertake testing etc.

Soccer is another example. They tried to get good, failed so turned off it again. I don't believe it is because it is too boring, it is simply because they know it will many many years before they can even hope to compete at the top level so why bother.

With regards to the military, how did they become such a massive force anyway? At this point they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They meddle everywhere and have made many mistakes and had ulterior motives, but they're also called to action in places around the world that's needed and are criticised if the don't/until they do. It's sad though that so much spending is on their military when their people don't even have universal health care, no mandatory paid leave/sick leave/maternal leave and their holiday entitlements are almost non existent - generally speaking.

If you're talking about US men's soccer, I just don't think it's in the culture there the way it is in other countries. The women's team - top of their game though and won the last World Cup! Not to mention 4 other wins and other achievements.

hetuzozaho

threeball wrote: »

Why for example has no one ever pulled him up on his claims they are testing more than any other country. Theres 10 countries they could use that are far in excess of the US on every metric.

Some journalists have called it out at the nightly briefings. Mentioning that per capita they are not testing the most. He will just ramble.

Here's an example:

Q. Mr. President, you said several times that the United States has ramped up testing, but the United States is still not testing per capita as many people as other countries like South Korea. Why is that? And when do you think that that number will be on par with other countries?

And Dr. —

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, well, it’s — it’s very much on par.

Q Not per capita —

THE PRESIDENT: Look — look — per capita. We have areas of country that’s very tight. I know South Korea better than anybody. It’s a — very tight. Do you know how many people are in Seoul? Do you know how big the city of Seoul is?

Q But the question is about (inaudible).

THE PRESIDENT: Thirty-eight million people. That’s bigger than anything we have. Thirty-eight million people all tightly wound together...........

BLA BLA BLA BLA ..rambled on some more and then

And we will see you all tomorrow. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

It's a joke. His administration should call him out at this stage.

threeball

hetuzozaho wrote: »

Some journalists have called it out at the nightly briefings. Mentioning that per capita they are not testing the most. He will just ramble.

Here's an example:



BLA BLA BLA BLA ..rambled on some more and then



It's a joke. His administration should call him out at this stage.

Thats the problem though. They paint themselves into corners they dont know the answer to themselves. Why couldn't someone pull him up when he claimed Seoul had 38m population. Why not throw 5 countries at them. Why say per capita when its not even as high as somewhere like Germany regardless of capita. Its amateurish journalism. Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to.

The republicans are a disgrace to let this sham rumble on just so they can stay in power.

Blueshoe

Trump was asked about the plummeting price of oil and what was he going to do.
His response: Cars are off the road and businesses are closed. Oil is not being usee. We are creating storage areas and will be buying as much of it as possible. Price will rebound in two weeks.
Obvious tasty bit of business.

rossie1977

To the surprise of nobody the miracle cure Fox News was claiming for weeks and Trump repeated doesn't actually work vs Covid 19. Worse still the people that actually need hydroxychloroquine now can't get it because supplies have been completely used up

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1252935946477228036

Boggles

Blueshoe wrote: »

Trump was asked about the plummeting price of oil and what was he going to do.
His response: Cars are off the road and businesses are closed. Oil is not being usee. We are creating storage areas and will be buying as much of it as possible. Price will rebound in two weeks.
Obvious tasty bit of business.

The reason companies are dumping oil is because it costs a lot to store it.

Storage is reaching capacities.

So no it is not a "tasty bit of business", it's a subsidy for the oil industry.

Blueshoe

Boggles wrote: »

The reason companies are dumping oil is because it costs a lot to store it.

Storage is reaching capacities.

So no it is not a "tasty bit of business", it's a subsidy for the oil industry.

It's cheap. They have a country full of places to store oil. They will be buying it anyway. Buy now for a pittance and store it. Collect as much as possible.
Tasty bit of business

Timberrrrrrrr

Blueshoe wrote: »

It's cheap. They have a country full of places to store oil. They will be buying it anyway. Buy now for a pittance and store it. Collect as much as possible.
Tasty bit of business

You are wrong on so many levels :rolleyes:

Boggles

Blueshoe wrote: »

They have a country full of places to store oil.

They don't.

Storing it is expensive and capacity is limited and almost maxed.

There is no provision in any stimulus to buy up excess oil.

Trump as usual was talking out of his orange hole.

hetuzozaho

threeball wrote: »

Thats the problem though. They paint themselves into corners they dont know the answer to themselves. Why couldn't someone pull him up when he claimed Seoul had 38m population. Why not throw 5 countries at them. Why say per capita when its not even as high as somewhere like Germany regardless of capita. Its amateurish journalism. Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to.

I think it is higher than anywhere though? Using your example

USA - 4,205,451
Germany - 1,728,357

Or what am I missing?

Blueshoe

Boggles wrote: »

They don't.

Storing it is expensive and capacity is limited and almost maxed.

There is no provision in any stimulus to buy up excess oil.

Trump as usual was talking out of his orange hole.

Once the Chinese start buying it up. Trump will follow suit. It's a no brainer. Cheap as chips

Edit. China have already began.

Timberrrrrrrr

Blueshoe wrote: »

Once the Chinese start buying it up. Trump will follow suit. It's a no brainer. Cheap as chips

Edit. China have already began.

America buys very little oil, it produces a LOT of oil. Refineries do not have the capacity to store oil hence why refineries were being paid $40 per barrel to take the oil.

threeball

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I think it is higher than anywhere though? Using your example

USA - 4,205,451
Germany - 1,728,357

Or what am I missing?

At the time it wasnt, that was nearly 2 weeks ago.

2u2me

Blueshoe wrote: »

Once the Chinese start buying it up. Trump will follow suit. It's a no brainer. Cheap as chips

Edit. China have already began.

Every square inch of space that can hold oil is already filled. Including tankers on the ocean. That's why the price went negative.

No one can buy it/store it anymore.
Everyone's stocks are full.

hetuzozaho

threeball wrote: »

At the time it wasnt, that was nearly 2 weeks ago.

Looks like Worldometers added the Tests column on the 5th, using the wayback machine!

http://web.archive.org/web/20200405011529/https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Think the question was per capita because the US have been ahead back two weeks ago too.

MadYaker

Surprise surprise, America had its first Coronavirus death on feb 6th. It’s 4 to 6 weeks from infection to death which means there virus was circulating there in early January at the latest. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/coronavirus-first-united-states-death.amp.html

Danzy

Blueshoe wrote: »

Once the Chinese start buying it up. Trump will follow suit. It's a no brainer. Cheap as chips

Edit. China have already began.

Storage capacity is an issue, have no doubt there will be massive storage added.

Oil wells, especially old ones can't be turned off lest they don't start again.

So while storage capacity will be added, maybe in massive volumes, it's not a solution for more than a few weeks.

jibber5000

rossie1977 wrote: »

To the surprise of nobody the miracle cure Fox News was claiming for weeks and Trump repeated doesn't actually work vs Covid 19. Worse still the people that actually need hydroxychloroquine now can't get it because supplies have been completely used up

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1252935946477228036

Observational study done on older,very sick patents with multiple comorbidites.

Wait until the RCT'S come out please.

Link for the people who need it that can't get it?

Danzy

Very positive to see the shutdown on immigration.

Real boost to the working class there.

Why the Democrats didn't push for this is hard to figure out, the need for Wall St. finds to win probably.

ceadaoin.

Danzy wrote: »

Very positive to see the shutdown on immigration.

Real boost to the working class there.

Why the Democrats didn't push for this is hard to figure out, the need for Wall St. finds to win probably.

Its a temporary pause on green cards only(which was already unofficially happening anyway). Visas are still being issued for all kinds of workers, so its not really a shutdown on immigration

Danzy

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Its a temporary pause on green cards only(which was already unofficially happening anyway). Visas are still being issued for all kinds of workers, so its not really a shutdown on immigration

Thank God for small mercies.

Outlaw Pete

Billy Mays wrote: »

"We've done more tests than all the other countries combined"

Number of tests done in USA: 4m
Number of tests done in other countries combined: 25m

Stop lying you orange f*cking mess

He clearly misspoke. Pressers are long. It happens. He was attempting to reference the following stat:

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1252673409584111617

At the Sunday presser similar was said:

"America continues to make steady progress in our war against the virus. As of today, we’ve tested 4.18 million Americans. That’s a record anywhere in the world. The United States has now conducted more total tests than all of the following nations combined: France, the United Kingdom, South Korea, Japan, Singapore, India, Austria, Australia, Sweden, and Canada"

No, that couldn't be it - no, the orange man is a liar!!

Please, why would he even bother lying about something so easily bloody checked. The same people who for three years have been telling us all he's an idiot suffering from dementia, will tell us also that he's a conniving liar. Maybe pick one.

Just because Trump may not answer a question adequately, or even accurately, given the impression a reporter has caught the administration out, doesn't therefore make it so. These are just words and while of course it would be great if Trump was more articulate, his administration, along with the CDC are working tirelessly to get the job done regardless. His words are not the measure of the US administrations efforts to mitigate the spread of this virus.

Anyway, I think with regards to testing, Fauci made some good points here:


https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1251319535375966215


I see a lot of people also quoting USA numbers but given the numbers in many states in the US are quite low, comparatively, but tbf that dilutes the testing numbers and gives the false impression that therefore the testing must be low in areas even where there are hot spots, like like New York for example, but that's not the case as the following graph shows:

Not suggesting all is perfect and that they (the current administration) are absolutely on it, as well as they need to be, but they are for sure doing a damn sight better than many are giving them credit for.