American response

ChikiChiki

Dillonb3 wrote: »

Already trying to gain entry into the State house in Michigan

https://twitter.com/DanielNewman/status/1255949280814215170?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1255949280814215170&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231255949280814215170

Said it a few weeks back when Trump posted his Liberate tweets. That country was on the edge before his presidency and the last thing they needed was the idiot stoking the fire. The pandemic may push it over tipping point.

Billy Mays

Dillonb3 wrote: »

Already trying to gain entry into the State house in Michigan

https://twitter.com/DanielNewman/status/1255949280814215170?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1255949280814215170&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2F2%2Ftwitter.min.html%231255949280814215170

Donnie accepts no responsibility at all

fryup

Billy Mays wrote: »

Donnie accepts no responsibility at all

of course he doesn't, it's always someone else's fault

threeball

Blueshoe wrote: »

If you go by population size of a developed western country we are not much better . Who will go after Leo and the simple Simons?

At the moment but the US is only ramping up plus these figures are hospital deaths, not care homes etc. They won't get reported as they're bad for election prospects. If you think our government have in any way comparable to the absolute shambles that Trump has created then theres little point in discussing it with you as you obviously have a political axe to grind.

ceadaoin.

threeball wrote: »

At the moment but the US is only ramping up plus these figures are hospital deaths, not care homes etc. They won't get reported as they're bad for election prospects. If you think our government have in any way comparable to the absolute shambles that Trump has created then theres little point in discussing it with you as you obviously have a political axe to grind.

Its not "ramping up" at all. Most states are on the downward trend now and are starting to follow the guidelines for reopening in a gradual and safe manner. Yes, some places are probably opening too soon but they are a minority.. People have been saying on here for weeks that its going to get bad and that the whole US is going to be "another italy". That hasn't happened at all. The vast majority of cities in the US never came anywhere near peak hospital use.

Any day now though right?

At this stage the economic ramifications of the shutdowns are far more of a danger to most Americans.

Christy42

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Its not "ramping up" at all. Most states are on the downward trend now and are starting to follow the guidelines for reopening in a gradual and safe manner. Yes, some places are probably opening too soon but they are a minority.. People have been saying on here for weeks that its going to get bad and that the whole US is going to be "another italy". That hasn't happened at all. The vast majority of cities in the US never came anywhere near peak hospital use.

Any day now though right?

At this stage the economic ramifications of the shutdowns are far more of a danger to most Americans.

Are they on the way down?

I mean they have flattened it a bit because it is hitting different places at different times but they were at 30k per day over a month ago and have been there with some fluctuations up and down in the mean time. Similarly deaths have been around the 2k mark for some time now.

I haven't checked individual states trends but the overall one is certainly not pointing down for the US yet unfortunately.

I mean they have been shut down for less time than most of Europe. If this is crippling them then they really need to look at their economic systems. They are meant to be the richest country on the planet with a supposedly booming economy.

ceadaoin.

Christy42 wrote: »

Are they on the way down?

I mean they have flattened it a bit because it is hitting different places at different times but they were at 30k per day over a month ago and have been there with some fluctuations up and down in the mean time. Similarly deaths have been around the 2k mark for some time now.

I haven't checked individual states trends but the overall one is certainly not pointing down for the US yet unfortunately.

I mean they have been shut down for less time than most of Europe. If this is crippling them then they really need to look at their economic systems. They are meant to be the richest country on the planet with a supposedly booming economy.

Most states have been shut down as long as Europe, or ireland at least, if not longer. My state has had all non essential businesses shut down since March 17. 3.2 million population, ~5000 cases, ~200 deaths. Approaching 70% of those cases recovered at this time. Hardly apocalyptic. We've done a lot more than "flatten it a bit" here.

Hospitalizations and new cases are on a clear downward trend. Testing is way up. Even in the hardest hit areas like new York, this is also the case.

You just can't say "they" when it comes to the US and their response. Every state has had their own timeline and measures. Some states barely had any cases at all, some were epicenters. It varies an awful lot.

I don't think the economy and especially small businesses being in the ****ter is unique to the US at this point in time is it? But I agree that there needs to be better safety nets and government support here

gormdubhgorm

J. Marston wrote: »

1 million+ cases. 60,000+ dead. A great success story.

https://twitter.com/IanSams/status/1255494609226141698

But population wise from the reported cases haven't they got less than Ireland?

Ireland - 20,612 from a pop of 4.904m =0.4%
USA - 1.09m from a pop of 328.2m = 0.3%

ceadaoin.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But population wise from the reported cases haven't they got less than Ireland?

Ireland - 20,612 from a pop of 4.904m =0.4%
USA - 1.09m from a pop of 328.2m = 0.3%

Shhhh. Thats not right. Millions of people in the US are going to die, the Healthcare system won't cope, society will collapse and armed militias will take the chance to seize control and before long there will be civil war. Any day now.

Manic Moran

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Most states have been shut down as long as Europe, or ireland at least, if not longer. My state has had all non essential businesses shut down since March 17. 3.2 million population, ~5000 cases, ~200 deaths. Approaching 70% of those cases recovered at this time. Hardly apocalyptic. We've done a lot more than "flatten it a bit" here.

Hospitalizations and new cases are on a clear downward trend. Testing is way up. Even in the hardest hit areas like new York, this is also the case.

You just can't say "they" when it comes to the US and their response. Every state has had their own timeline and measures. Some states barely had any cases at all, some were epicenters. It varies an awful lot.

I don't think the economy and especially small businesses being in the ****ter is unique to the US at this point in time is it? But I agree that there needs to be better safety nets and government support here

We're about the same here in TX. My county, population, 2mn. Total cases as of right now, 1,374. 0.06%, 48 dead.
The State starts to open up again tomorrow. Current population, 29mn. Total cases as of right now, 28,087, 0.1%. My son's running a high fever, took him to our regular pediatrician yesterday, they had the test kit.

It sucks for New York or any of the other high-density areas where containment is extremely difficult and the numbers are high. But we're not New York, and neither are most of the other States.

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Its not "ramping up" at all. Most states are on the downward trend now and are starting to follow the guidelines for reopening in a gradual and safe manner. Yes, some places are probably opening too soon but they are a minority.. People have been saying on here for weeks that its going to get bad and that the whole US is going to be "another italy". That hasn't happened at all. The vast majority of cities in the US never came anywhere near peak hospital use.

Any day now though right?

At this stage the economic ramifications of the shutdowns are far more of a danger to most Americans.

You're assuming that its going to continue going down but no European country has seen scenes like the states of hundreds of people tightly packed in protests in multiple states. People flooding beaches etc.
They said the same in the UK, we're doing the same measures as everyone else. The right measures at the right time etc. Look at the sh1tshow thats turned out to be. They'll be at 40 or 50k dead by july.
The curve has been flattened in the US mainly due to New Yorks drop in numbers but premature reopening of close contact businesses will see an end to that flattening nationwide.

ceadaoin.

threeball wrote: »

You're assuming that its going to continue going down but no European country has seen scenes like the states of hundreds of people tightly packed in protests in multiple states. People flooding beaches etc.
They said the same in the UK, we're doing the same measures as everyone else. The right measures at the right time etc. Look at the sh1tshow thats turned out to be. They'll be at 40 or 50k dead by july.
The curve has been flattened in the US mainly due to New Yorks drop in numbers but premature reopening of close contact businesses will see an end to that flattening nationwide.

What are you talking about? The curve hasnt been flattened mainly because of New York. The curve has been flattened because in many states they took action in time. Many places didn't even have a curve.

As myself and other posters who actually live in various states have said, we are doing OK, numbers wise. Phone data has shown that my state, Nevada, is actually staying home. We've had 200 deaths in a population of over 3 million. We've been locked down since mid March. We are starting to reopen slowly, in phases of 2-3 weeks each. I know people here are eagerly awaiting us all to be ****ed but I can't see it happening, sorry.


Let's see what happens but I'm not buying into the doomsday scenarios. Its not comparable to the UK, more like 50 countries with their own measures in place, some doing better than others.

ShatterAlan

Wibbs wrote: »

Trump is but an obvious symptom of a particular political and cultural problem with America dealing with something like this. Even if [insert OK leader here] was running the show their lack of socialised healthcare, their level of state independence, their governments and cultural ties to the "Market" and their dug in deep sense of individualism(normally a good thing) would still cause major issues when it comes to an epidemic. This was seen as far back as the 1918 pandemic. Individual states and cities took different approaches, which led to different outcomes. One city closed schools and decreed social distancing and their curve flattened and their outcome was much better than other cities.

Totalitarian centralised states like China will tend to fair much better in such epidemics, if and when they act to curb them. Cultures that are more community based than individualistic do better too. Taiwan seems to have fared best of all so far, having both the community thing and the top down thing in place. Europe is somewhere in the middle on this in general, though you will still have "rogue" actors like the UK initially and Sweden currently who will buck the general trend.

America has shown itself time and time again to be inept and incompetent in the face of a crisis. They talk a big game (The US is number 1, we kick ass, we will prevail) as if talking actually means anything. Actions speak louder than words and when the sh1t hits the fan they are the proverbial deer caught in the headlights. 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, Hurrina Sandy, Maria, 2008 crash, global warming, California wildfires, Covid-19.


The US are good at bullying other nations in order to enrich a tiny elite at the top and that's about the hard and fast of it.

ShatterAlan

lord quackinton wrote: »

Currently America is not that bad compared to most countries even Ireland
We have more deaths per population at moment
Let’s hold off on the anti American anti trump nonsense until end of the month at least
Why people are attacking trump at moment is very sad to see, almost a joy from the death numbers
Creepy stuff

Why is it "anti-American" to point out the obvious. i.e. that the US is incompetent?


You don't like uncomfortable truths so you attack those who point out facts?

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

What are you talking about? The curve hasnt been flattened mainly because of New York. The curve has been flattened because in many states they took action in time. Many places didn't even have a curve.

As myself and other posters who actually live in various states have said, we are doing OK, numbers wise. Phone data has shown that my state, Nevada, is actually staying home. We've had 200 deaths in a population of over 3 million. We've been locked down since mid March. We are starting to reopen slowly, in phases of 2-3 weeks each. I know people here are eagerly awaiting us all to be ****ed but I can't see it happening, sorry.


Let's see what happens but I'm not buying into the doomsday scenarios. Its not comparable to the UK, more like 50 countries with their own measures in place, some doing better than others.

None of the 30 states opening have reached the white houses low bar for reopening, yet they are. People crowding in state after state ignoring the lockdowns in place. It will spike again shortly despite all your head shaking and protesting. You're very quick to throw the 50 different countries line yet ignore europe is a collection of states which and the virus is at different stages in everyone of them. Without guidance the american public will drift back to normality before it all implodes again in weeks. There is no credible plan in place.

ShatterAlan

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The thread is about the USA's response to Covid-19 and their president, system of government, their healthccare system, society in general all feed into that response so are all up for discussion. Attitudes range from "this will get nasty, better arm myself to the teeth", to "I don't need to do anything, the good Lord will provide". Just because someone has a negative opinion of the USA's response or things that feed into it, doesn't mean that they hate it. Suggesting that they hate it seems like a way of dismissing criticism without actually considering what the criticism is based on.

Yep. It's the usual craven response when uncomfortable truths are uncovered. You criticise what is blindingly obvious and the American anus-lickers can't handle it and start screeching "anti-American, anti-American". It's the same with Israel. You criticise Israel for torturing Palestinian kids and what you get back is "anti-Semite, anti-Semite".

Carfacemandog

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But population wise from the reported cases haven't they got less than Ireland?

Ireland - 20,612 from a pop of 4.904m =0.4%
USA - 1.09m from a pop of 328.2m = 0.3%

Do you think the fact that Ireland is conducting 50% more tests per capita might have something to do with that? The US last week conducted 1.2mn tests, while Ireland conducted 41,500. Per million, that is 3,670 conducted there vs 8,479 here, meaning 2.3 tests are done in Ireland for every one that is done in the US.

Many states in the US are testing at less than a third of what we are in Ireland, while those that are at a similar level of testing, such as Louisiana and Massachusetts, are coming in considerably higher in terms of percentage of cases - 0.9% and 0.6% respectively.

Furthermore, do you think the lack of testing being done in nursing homes/residential care facilities in the US also plays a factor? In the US, two thirds of these don't have decent access to testing while in Ireland we are attempting to conduct tests at every single one, and are redelopying 1-in-5 HSE staff members specifically to them. In Ireland, these facilities account for 21% of all of our cases, and 59% of our deaths.

Added to that, do you feel that about 14% of Americans have said they will avoid hospitals as they could incur costs up to $75,000 for treatment also plays a factor? In Ireland, and much of the world, you are covered for something like this while in the US a fortnight in hospital could cause utter financial ruination that you may never get out of.

And all of this is before going into issues such as landmass and population density/dispersal, which are huge advantages the US has in this crisis, but advantages that can backfire if they are nto utlisied correctly and give a false sense of security. That would be a concern of mine, as NYs daily new cases and deaths seem to be falling quite a bit, but their nation as a whole are not. For an example of this, Texas has avoided a bad hit and is going to be reopening in part today or tomorrow, but only yesterday reported their largest death toll to date... that figure was still a reasonably low 53 people, but reopening won't help it do anything but go up, and using the fact that curves are dropping in a different state thousands of kilometers away doesn't really make much sense as a reassurance - it would be like us seeing Germanys figures and assuming Varadkar was going to say all was ok to reopen later today, because of it.

Cody montana

Cases and deaths don’t seem to be slowing down at all?

ceadaoin.

threeball wrote: »

None of the 30 states opening have reached the white houses low bar for reopening, yet they are. People crowding in state after state ignoring the lockdowns in place. It will spike again shortly despite all your head shaking and protesting. You're very quick to throw the 50 different countries line yet ignore europe is a collection of states which and the virus is at different stages in everyone of them. Without guidance the american public will drift back to normality before it all implodes again in weeks. There is no credible plan in place.

But there is guidance though? States have their own plan, independent of the federal government. Here is Nevada's, which was released today


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://nvhealthresponse.nv.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/NEVADA-UNITED-ROADMAP-TO-RECOVERY.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiT7ZmZsZLpAhUpIDQIHWhxCDIQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0ivkanjTB64LufMfUMKVm2


Also the virus is at different stages in everyone of the US states too. Its a country vastly bigger than Europe, composed of states bigger than most European countries. It really shouldnt be that hard to understand. Its like seeing how parts of Italy went and saying that all of Europe is ****ed. A good proportion of people living in America have only seen the economic impacts of this virus and not any actual medical ones

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

But there is guidance though? States have their own plan, independent of the federal government. Here is Nevada's, which was released today


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://nvhealthresponse.nv.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/NEVADA-UNITED-ROADMAP-TO-RECOVERY.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiT7ZmZsZLpAhUpIDQIHWhxCDIQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0ivkanjTB64LufMfUMKVm2


Also the virus is at different stages in everyone of the US states too. Its a country vastly bigger than Europe, composed of states bigger than most European countries. It really shouldnt be that hard to understand.

Grand. Keep putting your fingers in your ears going la la la la. You'll see how it pans out over the summer. It won't be good. 30k cases a day minimum just waiting to infect left right and centre. Be grand though

ceadaoin.

threeball wrote: »

Grand. Keep putting your fingers in your ears going la la la la. You'll see how it pans out over the summer. It won't be good. 30k cases a day minimum just waiting to infect left right and centre. Be grand though

Ok. Let's see how my state, who have been at home for 6 weeks now and have 200 deaths out of a population of 3.2 million get on with our extremely gradual phased reopening.

I'm not putting my fingers in my ears. I'm observing what I'm seeing in my part of the world and basing my opinion on the actual facts of what is happening

Leroy42

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Ok. Let's see how my state, who have been at home for 6 weeks now and have 200 deaths out of a population of 3.2 million get on with our extremely gradual phased reopening.

I'm not putting my fingers in my ears. I'm observing what I'm seeing in my part of the world and basing my opinion on the actual facts of what is happening

But if your state reopens, as you indicate that they may be able to, how do you stop the other parts of the US from creating infection?

Trump goes on about how he stopped the virus coming in from China (not looking to renew that debate) but if that idea holds through (if not the execution) then surely your state will be looking to limit those coming into the state from outside.

But how can you do that since there is no border and no lawful means to stop people?

ceadaoin.

Leroy42 wrote: »

But if your state reopens, as you indicate that they may be able to, how do you stop the other parts of the US from creating infection?

Trump goes on about how he stopped the virus coming in from China (not looking to renew that debate) but if that idea holds through (if not the execution) then surely your state will be looking to limit those coming into the state from outside.

But how can you do that since there is no border and no lawful means to stop people?

I live in Vegas, we are very aware of this possibility. That is why we have joined the western states pact, to coordinate as much as possible because those states make up the bulk of our domestic visitors. The reopening will be in phases of 2-3 weeks each so that they can see if there are any increases in cases, if so then we go back. casinos will not reopen until phase 3 or 4, and even then with social distancing in place as much as possible. They have already released their own plans for this such as testing employees and wearing masks etc. Right now we aren't even in phase 1, but that should be on or before may 15 if things keep going the way they are.

Its almost as if the experts have already thought of all the things you mention....

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Ok. Let's see how my state, who have been at home for 6 weeks now and have 200 deaths out of a population of 3.2 million get on with our extremely gradual phased reopening.

I'm not putting my fingers in my ears. I'm observing what I'm seeing in my part of the world and basing my opinion on the actual facts of what is happening

I'm talking about America as a whole, not your state. No doubt there will be responsible states but theres many that are not and will impact the rest

Leroy42

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I live in Vegas, we are very aware of this possibility. That is why we have joined the western states pact, to coordinate as much as possible because those states make up the bulk of our domestic visitors. The reopening will be in phases of 2-3 weeks each so that they can see if there are any increases in cases, if so then we go back. casinos will not reopen until phase 3 or 4, and even then with social distancing in place as much as possible. They have already released their own plans for this such as testing employees and wearing masks etc. Right now we aren't even in phase 1, but that should be on or before may 15 if things keep going the way they are.

Its almost as if the experts have already thought of all the things you mention....

How are they going to stop people from other states coming to Vegas? And how will they know that people form the Western states are not infected?

lawrencesummers

It’s interesting that the media haven’t reported how the poorest communities are the ones most affected by the spread of disease.

It suits the white gun loving nationalist republican Americans who consider themselves patriots that the poorest, ie black and Hispanics will be the ones to suffer most from the spread of disease.

MadYaker

Vitamin D is essential for the immune system. Almost all the vitamin D humans get is made by our skin when it gets hit with UV radiation from sunlight. People with a darker skin pigment (african americans and hispanics) make vitamin D slower than people with white skin and a lighter skin pigment. So it would make sense that the african american and hispanic community will be hit slightly harder by this and this is reflected in statistics from NY which at the moment is the only soruce of reliable numbers from the USA due to the advanced stage of the pandemic there. Haven't seen Dr Fauci or anyone else mention this yet. I think it would be good for them to draw attention to it and advise people to start taking a supplement. African american communities also have very high levels of obesity, diabetes and many lack health insurance so it seems like a bit of a perfect storm to me epsecially in the south eastern states where the pandemic still seems to be in a relatively early stage and a high % of the population are african americans or hispanics.

Leroy42

You might have a point about Vit D, but I would have thought that lower income levels across the minorities which leads to more cramped housing, less ability to WFH, less ability to refuse to do work as lack of savings, lack of health care would have a much higher impact on the spread and the deathrate than lack of Vit D.

lawrencesummers

Leroy42 wrote: »

You might have a point about Vit D, but I would have thought that lower income levels across the minorities which leads to more cramped housing, less ability to WFH, less ability to refuse to do work as lack of savings, lack of health care would have a much higher impact on the spread and the deathrate than lack of Vit D.

Exactly, cramped conditions, working in manual jobs with often bigger populations play a bigger part in the spread, vitD plays a bigger part in the reaction to catching it.

Jails are similar to nursing homes in their density and probably lack the sanitary and cleaning disinfectant programs that nursing home do. In the US the prison population is predominately black / Hispanic as well.

ShatterAlan

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Most americans arent thick. Fox news is not america. Trump has always known its serious, how could he not? Hes just a dick

As a non American living in america, I think most states are doing a good job, regardless of Trump, better than a lot of european countries tbh.

Most Americans ARE fcuking thick and that's coming from a non-American who has lived in the US for 8 years. You might have a circle of friends there who are somewhat enlightened. There might even be the odd looney-lefty in your clique who has gotten off his or her ass and got a passport and did a bit of travelling to broaden their mind...maybe. But such a scenario is a microcosm of the overall demographic.