American response

Tchaikovsky

Lollipop95 wrote: »

I haven't been following the news on this very closely, but HOW are the US doing so well and opening up so soon, despite having the largest population in the world?

China has the largest population in the world by quite a bit.

ceadaoin.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

dont believe everything you hear or read, expect a messy reopening of the american economy, expect a rise in covid cases and deaths, things more than likely will not be returning to normal anytime soon, particularly economically, this could all get scary for a while, expect financial and banking sector issues very soon

Lots of places in Europe are starting to open up again. Why is it only America are getting **** for it? Most states are doing a lot better than many EU countries.

Airyfairy12

I matched with this guy on Tinder, he didnt have a location so I didnt know where he was from until we starting chatting, he turned out to be living in Kentucky.
In general chit chat I asked about the lockdown, he replied and said poudly, theres not a lockdown, shops and that are closed but people are doing what ever they want. Then he said, thats what having a democatratic government is like..
The conversation went on and I said how im following lockdown to protect vulnerable people and how it's not about me.. I cant remember word for word as he unmatched me soon after the conversation but we were generally of two opposit opinions and I was asking him questions as I was generally interested in his point of view, I was also very bored.
He said to me the reason himself and other people there arent engaging in lockdown is because theres a conspiracy theory that the numbers are false and he himself doesnt believe the numbers. He also said liberals own the media and the media is boosting statistics to make trump look bad. I said to him it's the WHO releasing statistics, he said the WHO are in on it.

I asked him how does he know the liberal media and WHO are making up numbers? He said he doesnt, its a conspiracy theory. Himself and everyone else not following social distancing rules know its a conspiracy theory but believe the conspiracy theory enough to follow it with no proof over the advice of actual doctors and scientists...

Couldnt explain how ignoring socially distancing rules helps any political party but he said he's not a trump supporter and definitly not a liberal. Pretty much made no sense whatsoever. If anything it sounded like he read something off reddit believed it to be true and just went with it.

Im not sure if theyre suffering from stupidy or mental illness, either way theres no logic behind their actions at all.

ceadaoin.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I matched with this guy on Tinder, he didnt have a location so I didnt know where he was from until we starting chatting, he turned out to be living in Kentucky.
In general chit chat I asked about the lockdown, he replied and said poudly, theres not a lockdown, shops and that are closed but people are doing what ever they want. Then he said, thats what having a democatratic government is like..
The conversation went on and I said how im following lockdown to protect vulnerable people and how it's not about me.. I cant remember word for word as he unmatched me soon after the conversation but we were generally of two opposit opinions and I was asking him questions as I was generally interested in his point of view, I was also very bored.
He said to me the reason theyre not engaging in lockdown is because theres a conspiracy theory that liberals own the media and the media is boosting statistics to make trump look bad. I said to him it's the WHO releasing statistics, he said the WHO are in on it.

I asked him how does he know the liberal media and WHO are making up numbers? He said he doesnt, its a conspiracy theory. Himself and everyone else not following social distancing rules know its a conspiracy theory but believe the conspiracy theory enough to follow it with no proof over the advice of actual doctors and scientists...

Couldnt explain how ignoring socially distancing rules helps any political party but he said he's not a trump supporter and definitly not a liberal. Pretty much made no sense whatsoever. If anything it sounded like he read something off reddit believed it to be true and just went with it.

Im not sure if theyre suffering from stupidy or mental illness, either way theres no logic behind their actions at all.

So based off of one interaction with a random person, you've jumped to "they're suffering from stupidity or mental illness", meaning Americans in general I presume. Yeah, makes sense.

Airyfairy12

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So based off of one interaction with a random person, you've jumped to "they're suffering from stupidity or mental illness", meaning Americans in general I presume. Yeah, makes sense.

Read it again, I didnt mention Americans in general - 'Theyre' related to the people I was talking about, who believe in a conspiracy theory over the advice of doctors and scientists putting themselves and vulnerable people at risk. America has over 1 million cases of Covid and the highest rates of death, largly because of a very big group of people in America.

It's not just one random person, theres videos all over social media of protests from people just like him refusing to self isolate when theyre sick, wont social distance and putting peoples lives at risk. He's hardley in a minority.

The Great Gatsby

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Lots of places in Europe are starting to open up again. Why is it only America are getting **** for it? Most states are doing a lot better than many EU countries.

This is so true! . . . European countries start to "unlock" and it's OK (or at least no criticism); meanwhile certain States in America start to ease restrictions and it's not OK (and plenty of criticism) . . . even though the vast majority of States have less cases and less deaths per population then most European countries.

hetuzozaho

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

America has over 1 million cases of Covid and the highest rates of death, largly because of a very big group of people in America.

What do you mean by rates of death?

Airyfairy12

hetuzozaho wrote: »

What do you mean by rates of death?

Sorry, that should say one of the highest rates of death.

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Lots of places in Europe are starting to open up again. Why is it only America are getting **** for it? Most states are doing a lot better than many EU countries.

Because Europe is testing like crazy, has a plan and isn't rising in cases. The US are doing none of the above. Cases are rising even though they aren't testing. Its quite probable their cases are twice as high as reported because people can't get tested. Its easy have less numbers when you're not even bothering to look for them. The tinder is there across all the US and the firewood is being added day by day. Latest models are predicting cases and deaths will be exponential. They'll have between 250 and 500k dead by election time.

ceadaoin.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Read it again, I didnt mention Americans in general - 'Theyre' related to the people I was talking about, who believe in a conspiracy theory over the advice of doctors and scientists putting themselves and vulnerable people at risk. America has over 1 million cases of Covid and the highest rates of death, largly because of a very big group of people in America.

It's not just one random person, theres videos all over social media of protests from people just like him refusing to self isolate when theyre sick, wont social distance and putting peoples lives at risk. He's hardley in a minority.

The amount of cases and deaths is more to do with other factors, such as the high population, how densely populated new York is (which accounts for a large number of cases and deaths), and the amount of Americans with underlying conditions. Not much to do with "those people" who are actually a minority of people here believe it or not. Its a fact that the vast majority of Americans have been following the rules and social distancing.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/stay-home-during-outbreak-americans-stick-to-social-distancing

Maybe don't base your opinions about entire populations on YouTube crazies. Have a look at the stats by states. Most are doing better than Europe right now.

nigeldaniel

The problem with China is they have a poor track record of honesty so there is no way of knowing how many died in China. at least the US is not covering up their numbers. Separately Russa and former soviet bloc countries will be in no hurry to find their true numbers either. What Don Don Trump is doing is a bit mad but the yanks voted for him so no point in giving out.

threeball

nigeldaniel wrote: »

The problem with China is they have a poor track record of honesty so there is no way of knowing how many died in China. at least the US is not covering up their numbers. Separately Russa and former soviet bloc countries will be in no hurry to find their true numbers either. What Don Don Trump is doing is a bit mad but the yanks voted for him so no point in giving out.

Yes they are. Florida was repressing the number of deaths reported. They're not testing to keep the infection numbers down. Its the same as lying.

ceadaoin.

threeball wrote: »

Because Europe is testing like crazy, has a plan and isn't rising in cases. The US are doing none of the above. Cases are rising even though they aren't testing. Its quite probable their cases are twice as high as reported because people can't get tested. Its easy have less numbers when you're not even bothering to look for them. The tinder is there across all the US and the firewood is being added day by day. Latest models are predicting cases and deaths will be exponential. They'll have between 250 and 500k dead by election time.

The individual states do have plans for phased reopening though and are doing it to their own timelines and criteria.Yes, cases are rising in some places but not in others. So states thousands of miles away from any hotspots have to stayed closed because why? Is Ireland going to stay in lockdown when they are doing fine just because another EU state has rising cases?

I can go to one of several drive through testing centers today and get a test if I want. Failing that I can see my Healthcare provider who can arrange one. Its a lot easier to get tested than it was a few weeks ago.

Airyfairy12

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The amount of cases and deaths is more to do with other factors, such as the high population, how densely populated new York is (which accounts for a large number of cases and deaths), and the amount of Americans with underlying conditions. Not much to do with "those people" who are actually a minority of people here believe it or not. Its a fact that the vast majority of Americans have been following the rules and social distancing.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-14/stay-home-during-outbreak-americans-stick-to-social-distancing

Maybe don't base your opinions about entire populations on YouTube crazies. Have a look at the stats by states. Most are doing better than Europe right now.

As mentioned, the comment wasnt directed at the entire population but you're going to pretend it was and insist that im generalising all Americans so ill just let you at it.

A large part of why so many people are infected is because of Trumps initial denial of the virus and the amount of time it took him to react.

Population density among other issues youve mentioned are issues in other countries too, not just the US believe it or not.
The countries with the highest numbers and highest rates of deaths are consistenly the countries who are slow to react and dont collectivly obey social dinstancing advice.

Regardless, the attitude of the man I spoke to, while not the thoughts and opinions of the general American population, are common enough for them to be brought to international media attention.

Denying those people exist and play a huge part in the spread of the virus wont make them go away.

Just to add - You mention compareing states to entire countries in Europe. In every country some parts are more effected than others, you cant compare Washington or any other state to Italy or any other country.
Its also not a compeition on who is doing better. We would hope as many people survive as possible. What is happening in America is beyond tragic for vulnerable people who are catching this illness, as its equally tragic in any other place in the world.

Christy42

Over the last week the US has a lot more deaths than the EU while also having a smaller population. That is why certain European countries can open back up. They have been hit earlier than the states but are on a different point in the curve. They still need to be careful with opening up though. New York deaths are down so it isn't just them either over the last few days.

ceadaoin.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

As mentioned, the comment wasnt directed at the entire population but you're going to pretend it was and insist that im generalising all Americans so ill just let you at it.

A large part of why so many people are infected is because of Trumps initial denial of the virus and the amount of time it took him to react.

Population density among other issues youve mentioned are issues in other countries too, not just the US believe it or not.
The countries with the highest numbers and highest rates of deaths are consistenly the countries who are slow to react and dont collectivly obey social dinstancing advice.

Regardless, the attitude of the man I spoke to, while not the thoughts and opinions of the general American population, are common enough for them to be brought to international media attention.

Denying those people exist and play a huge part in the spread of the virus wont make them go away.

I'm not denying they exist. I'm saying they are a minority. I provided facts showing that the vast majority of Americans are following lockdown and social distancing guidelines whereas you believe that those flaunting the rules aren't a minority at all and are "largely responsible" for the cases in America. Its just not true.

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The individual states do have plans for phased reopening though and are doing it to their own timelines and criteria.Yes, cases are rising in some places but not in others. So states thousands of miles away from any hotspots have to stayed closed because why? Is Ireland going to stay in lockdown when they are doing fine just because another EU state has rising cases?

Again, they don't have the data because they're not testing and unlike europe have no contact tracing worth talking about. Theres no real plan, its just they need to open up as their social protections are non existent. Its all well and good reopening but you have to have the proceedures in place to prevent a run away second wave and they don't. Some states have reopened businesses with no regard for social distancing, nail bars, hair dressers, bars, the very last places to experiment with when reopening intelligently.

Airyfairy12

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm not denying they exist. I'm saying they are a minority. I provided facts showing that the vast majority of Americans are following lockdown and social distancing guidelines.

Thats great to hear and not suprising. Id imagine youd expect that's how it should be. Regardless, my point still stands, there are loonyies, who at this time seem to be specifically from parts of America albiet the UK had its fair share in the beginning although not to the same extent, who cant be reasoned with and theres allot of them. No doubt they will cost lives and already have.

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The individual states do have plans for phased reopening though and are doing it to their own timelines and criteria.Yes, cases are rising in some places but not in others. So states thousands of miles away from any hotspots have to stayed closed because why? Is Ireland going to stay in lockdown when they are doing fine just because another EU state has rising cases?

I can go to one of several drive through testing centers today and get a test if I want. Failing that I can see my Healthcare provider who can arrange one. Its a lot easier to get tested than it was a few weeks ago.

Btw pop on to the U.K. thread and you'll see guys living there arguing in february that they were following the right course and the numbers would tell the tale in the end. They were getting the best scientific advice. They could not be told how wrong they were. 3 months later they are still their trying to convince people that 30,000 deaths isnt too bad. The same trend is occuring here.

ceadaoin.

threeball wrote: »

Btw pop on to the U.K. thread and you'll see guys living there arguing in february that they were following the right course and the numbers would tell the tale in the end. They were getting the best scientific advice. They could not be told how wrong they were. 3 months later they are still their trying to convince people that 30,000 deaths isnt too bad. The same trend is occuring here.

We've been in lockdown since early March. Out of a population of 3.2 million, 276 have died from coronavirus. New cases and deaths are dropping. Almost 70% of cases have recovered. Testing is increasing. But we are supposed to stay shut down because thousands of miles away cases are rising?

It was never the intention to wait out the virus and stay in lockdown until it has vanished. We've flattened the curve, we didn't get overwhelmed. And if we follow the phased reopening plan set out by our governor, and keep a close eye for any major resurgence, there's no reason to think the hospitals will collapse which is what the point of lockdown was.

Airyfairy12

ceadaoin. wrote: »

We've been in lockdown since early March. Out of a population of 3.2 million, 276 have died from coronavirus. New cases and deaths are dropping. Almost 70% of cases have recovered. Testing is increasing. But we are supposed to stay shut down because thousands of miles away cases are rising?

Im assuming youre talking about America? unless im reading your post wrong, im open to correction but almost 73,000 people have died, not 276...
If it's based on state, as mentioned, just like every other country, some parts will be more effected than others.

ceadaoin.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Im assuming youre talking about America? unless im reading your post wrong, im open to correction but almost 73,000 people have died, not 276...

I'm talking about the state I live in in America. 276 have died out of a population of 3.2 million. We are not New York. We have flattened the curve big time thanks to locking down in early March. At no point were our hospitals in danger of becoming overwhelmed. Actually they are empty. Please explain why you think we, as in my state, cannot begin our own phased reopening plan based on those numbers? Yes, its the same country, but what is happening thousands of miles away is not relevant to us and our ability to safely reopen businesses.

Fact is, some places in America are perfectly fine to start reopening. Some aren't, so they are staying closed, such as New York. Some are opening too early yes. But most aren't. There's no reason to think that sensible phased reopening, going back steps if needed, is going to result in half a million deaths as posted earlier. That's just wishful thinking on the part of those who have a chip on their shoulder about the US for some reason. This whole thread is full of it.

Kermit.de.frog

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Is Ireland going to stay in lockdown when they are doing fine just because another EU state has rising cases?

Chalk and cheese. Dealing with countries in the EU not states.

Airyfairy12

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm talking about the state I live in in America. 276 have died out of a population of 3.2 million. We are not New York. We have flattened the curve big time thanks to locking down in early March. At no point were our hospitals in danger of becoming overwhelmed. Actually they are empty. Please explain why you think we cannot begin our own phased reopening plan based on those numbers?

As mentioned previously, in every country some parts will be more effected than others. For example, in Itlay Lomnardy had over 70,000 cases, Molise had three hundred and something cases. The North was hit much harder than the South.
The south didnt lift lockdown before the North because they had less numbers.

You insist on comparing American States to European countries. They are not the same, each country in Europe is seperated by borders, governments, languages and cultures. They are each seperate countries independant from each other.

America is more similar to other countries in terms of regions or counties within countries although in America laws ect vary, the states are all run within the same country. If each state cant work together, like various regions of Italy or Ireland or anywhere else, you risk a second phase of the virus.

2u2me

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Denying those people exist and play a huge part in the spread of the virus wont make them go away.

The funny thing is; 'those people' are not just the people you'd expect. There seems be a do what I say, not what I do kind of attitude amongst policy makers there and quite frankly everywhere.

In the US

• Obama was caught with a golf course to himself.
• Chris Cuomo was caught outside of his 'lockdown'
• Bill deBlasio caught in a public park, when he has his own park.
• Mayor Lory Lightfoot had her hair done, after closing all hairdressers."I'm the public face, I deserve this"
• Mayor Andrew Cuomo of NY "You can literally kill someone by not wearing a mask"- as he doesn't wear a mask.

In Canada:

• Trudeau left town for Easter trip after telling Canadians to stay at home for Easter.

In the UK:

• Neil Ferguson resigned yesterday after it was reported a woman visited his home during lockdown. He was the advisor to the UK on lockdowns.
• Robert Jenrick(Visitng family far away)
• Catherine Calderwood(travelled to holiday home)
• Nigel Farage(broke essential travel rules?)
• Wayne Rooney and Kyle Walker on a golf course with their families.

I bet we'd see scandals in Ireland if our reporters actually did their jobs.

Leo Varadkar said we are becoming “lax” about the rules and such laxity is making it “harder to end this”, as he created a direct link between our supposed behaviour and the relaxing of restrictions. To some, it came across as almost a threat.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/blame-for-expected-extended-lockdown-shifted-onto-the-public-1.4239955

ceadaoin.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

As mentioned previously, in every country some parts will be more effected than others. For example, in Itlay Lomnardy had over 70,000 cases, Molise had three hundred and something cases. The North was hit much harder than the South.
The south didnt lift lockdown before the North because they had less numbers.

You insist on comparing American States to European countries. They are not the same, each country in Europe is seperated by borders, governments, languages and cultures. They are each seperate countries independant from each other.

America is more similar to other countries in terms of regions or counties within countries although in America laws ect vary, the states are all run within the same country. If each state cant work together, like various regions of Italy or Ireland or anywhere else, you risk a second phase of the virus.

Not really. Each state runs itself and has its own government and is more equivalent to a European country than a region within the same country. Its been set up that way precisely so that the federal government doesn't have too much power over individual states. Each state has been allowed to coordinate their own response and reopening plans and that's how they want it. With trump in charge its definitely for the best that that's how it happens.

Some states, like mine, are working together with surrounding west coast states to coordinate reopening. There is an east coast pact too, but there is no point in Nevada coordinating with New York because we are thousands of miles apart and have vastly different situations when it comes to Covid19. What is happening in New York has literally no effect or influence on whether my local ikea can reopen and nor should it.

Kermit.de.frog

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not really. Each state runs itself and has its own government and is more equivalent to a European country than a region within the same country.

What's Nevada's foreign and defence policy?

ceadaoin.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

What's Nevada's foreign and defence policy?

Well as you know, of course there are federal policies regarding foreign and defense policy. And also federal laws that cover all states. But for the most part states run themselves, have their own governments, budgets etc etc. They can even blatantly disregard federal laws it seems, such as when it comes to making marijuana legal. I said "more equivalent" to eu countries. Which is true.

It just doesn't make sense to advocate keeping the entire US shut down when plenty of places are ok to start to reopen. If that happened then the **** definitely would hit the fan

Airyfairy12

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not really. Each state runs itself and is more equivalent to a European country than a region within the same country. Some states, like mine, are working together with surrounding west coast states to coordinate reopening. There is an east coast pact too, but there is no point with Nevada, coordinating with New York because we are thousands of miles apart and have vastly different situations when it comes to Covid19.

I dont agree that European countries are similar to American states but can appreciate the distance between states as similar to pdistance in parts of Europe and the effect or lack of effect that has on easing restrictions in other areas of America, it makes sense.
The worry is easing restrictions too soon which will result in more deaths. As mentioned on a previous thread, the Choctaw natives and other minority communities, who live in many of these areas that are trying to ease or entirely lift lockdowns and restrictions, are very badly effected by this virus. Coupled with the issue of mad people who refuse to believe COVID 19 is even an issue and Trump saying what ever he wants.. it's a recipe for disasaster were the vulnerable will suffer most.
Keep in mind that people easily travel between states, you lift the restriction on Nevada and soon you have people from New york, potentially carrying covid 19 off to Las Vegas for a weekend and the problem starts again.

2u2me

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It just doesn't make sense to advocate keeping the entire US shut down when plenty of places are ok to start to reopen. If that happened then the **** definitely would hit the fan

Exactly.

Enforcing the same rules in New York (27,000 people per square mile) as Wyoming (5 people per square mile) seems absolutely ridiculous.