American response

Blueshoe

2u2me wrote: »

Exactly.

Enforcing the same rules in New York (27,000 people per square mile) as Wyoming (5 people per square mile) seems absolutely ridiculous.

The same could be said about the lockdown in Dublin v Connemara

ceadaoin.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Keep in mind that people easily travel between states, you lift the restriction on Nevada and soon you have people from New york, potentially carrying covid 19 off to Las Vegas for a weekend and the problem starts again.

Well you won't have that at this point because the strip is shut down and won't be reopened until at least phase 4 in the reopening plan. That will be a while considering we are only in phase zero now. Who is going to come here with no casinos or pool parties lol. As I keep explaining, its not a case of just flinging open all the doors and reopening everything at once. Its a gradual process and can change based on the numbers. The alternative is what? Stay at home until a vaccine? Not feasible.

Kermit.de.frog

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It just doesn't make sense to advocate keeping the entire US shut down when plenty of places are ok to start to reopen. If that happened then the **** definitely would hit the fan

What do think happens when, for example, there are 500 deaths a day in California?

Does not matter whether there is a "lock down" or not then because people get scared and vote with their feet anyway. They won't spend, they won't travel.

The problem is not lock downs, they are a symptom - not the cause.

The problem is the virus ultimately and a country's ability to keep transmission under control.

The US has it partially under control but wants states to open up at precisely the wrong time.

This could lead to far bigger problems in the months ahead when hindsight could be it was better crushing it in the beginning.

Kermit.de.frog

Blueshoe wrote: »

The same could be said about the lockdown in Dublin v Connemara

Dalkey v Ballymun

Blueshoe

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Dalkey vs Ballymun

Australia v Norway

2u2me

Blueshoe wrote: »

The same could be said about the lockdown in Dublin v Connemara

Albeit slightly different, we don't have the ability to restrict inter-state travel like they do.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-driving-restrictions.html

Countries like Australia can restrict air travel.

Airyfairy12

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well you won't have that at this point because the strip is shut down and won't be reopened until at least phase 4 in the reopening plan. That will be a while considering we are only in phase zero now. Who is going to come here with no casinos or pool parties lol. As I keep explaining, its not a case of just flinging open all the doors and reopening everything at once. Its a gradual process and can change based on the numbers. The alternative is what? Stay at home until a vaccine? Not feasible.

Their purpose of travel isnt the issue, people will travel regardless, be it to go to a holiday home or visit friends or family, once people start travelling across state you lose all sense of contact tracing and control of the virus.
People cant get their head around the probability of a second round of the virus, only next time New York wont be the epicentre, it will be California or Texas or somewhere else.

ceadaoin.

Blueshoe wrote: »

The same could be said about the lockdown in Dublin v Connemara

And doubly so if Connemara was as far away from Dublin as the Ukraine, as is the case with Wyoming and New York.

Blueshoe

2u2me wrote: »

Albeit slightly different, we don't have the ability to restrict inter-state travel like they do.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-driving-restrictions.html

Countries like Australia can restrict air travel.

Bus,train,car, boat, bicycle, walk or Eamon Ryan's 2.7l old diesel bus.
Lots of alternative means from A to B

2u2me

Blueshoe wrote: »

Bus,train,car, boat, bicycle, walk or Eamon Ryan's 2.7l old diesel bus.
Lots of alternative means from A to B

Indeed, your missing the nuance of being able to quarantine people after having travelled by boat and air, and by telling them to go home when they travel by car.

None of which we can do when people travel within Ireland.

Very easy to do in the US though.

Kermit.de.frog

Blueshoe wrote: »

Australia v Norway

My street v the next street

Where does it end? :eek:

Airyfairy12

ceadaoin. wrote: »

And doubly so if Connemara was as far away from Dublin as the Ukraine, as is the case with Wyoming and New York.

Completely different. Ireland and Ukraine are seperated by several countries and a sea. Also you cant drive from Ukraine to Dublin.
Travel to and from Ireland and Ukraine is also much less than it is within states in America, you really need to stop comparing European countreis to American states, they are not the same thing.

Outlaw Pete

Texas Governor and AG come out in support of the hairdresser that was jailed for refusing to apologise for opening her salon:


https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1258091170179305473

ceadaoin.

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Completely different. Ireland and Ukraine are seperated by several countries and a sea. Also you cant drive from Ukraine to Dublin.
Travel to and from Ireland and Ukraine is also much less than it is within states in America, you really need to stop comparing European countreis to American states, they are not the same thing.

They aren't the same thing, but they are more similar to that that the counties of Ireland. Its you who isn't getting it. I can guarantee that a person living in Wyoming feels about as far removed from new York as the average dub feels from Kiev. What is happening in each with regards to Covid19 has no bearing on the other.

Blueshoe

ceadaoin. wrote: »

They aren't the same thing, but they are more similar to that that the counties of Ireland. Its you who isn't getting it. I can guarantee that a person living in Wyoming feels about as far removed from new York as the average dub feels from Kiev. What is happening in each with regards to Covid19 has no bearing on the other.

Ask a kerryman if he feels like a Dub or vice versa

Kermit.de.frog

ceadaoin. wrote: »

They aren't the same thing, but they are more similar to that that the counties of Ireland. Its you who isn't getting it. I can guarantee that a person living in Wyoming feels about as far removed from new York as the average dub feels from Kiev. What is happening in each with regards to Covid19 has no bearing on the other.

Cork people feel far removed from Dubs.

2u2me

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My street v the next street

Where does it end? :eek:

Or should you shutdown the whole world, where does it end? :eek:



It starts with your ability to control access to a region, area, city, nation.

Take Taiwan for example. Completely controlled their borders and have been able to keep open with small levels of infection with high levels of contact tracing.
They quarantine anyone who tries to enter, until they are cleared.

They were closest to the epicentre of the virus also.

Are you saying Taiwan should undergo lockdown because New York has massive amounts of infected?

2u2me

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Keep in mind that people easily travel between states, you lift the restriction on Nevada and soon you have people from New york, potentially carrying covid 19 off to Las Vegas for a weekend and the problem starts again.

You can lift the restrictions within the state, while still having the restrictions on travel between states- which is what seems to be going on at a local level.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-driving-restrictions.html

Rhode Island was among the first states to actively begin monitoring out-of-state arrivals and enforcing self-isolation restrictions, that was on March 26th.

Here are some more states that already restrict inter-state travel:

• Alaska: Unless it is to support critical infrastructure or for critical personal needs, all travel in the state between communities is prohibited. The restrictions apply to residents, workers and visitors.
• Delaware: Travelers entering Delaware from other states for an extended stay will now be required to self-quarantine for 14-days, according to an order from Gov. John Carney.
• Florida: Florida was the first state to launch a large-scale attempt to impose self-quarantine for domestic travelers when Gov. Ron DeSantis issued an order for a 14-day self-quarantine for travelers entering the state's airports from New York, New Jersey and Connecticut.
• Hawaii: Gov. David Ige asked travelers to postpone their visits to the island for the next 30 days. All arriving residents and visitors will immediately go into a 14-day quarantines upon entering the state.
• Kansas: Travelers from Colorado and Louisiana must quarantine when they arrive in Kansas, a news release from the Kansas Department of Health and Environment said. Kansas has also placed quarantine requirements on travelers from Florida, Washington, California, New York, New Jersey and Illinois.
• Kentucky: Gov. Andy Beshear issued an executive order requiring anyone returning to that state to quarantine for 14 days and banning travel to other states.
• Maryland: Among a series of new actions including limiting gatherings to 10 people and ordering closures of shopping malls, Gov. Larry Hogan said that access to the BWI Marshall Airport terminal would be restricted and residents were urged to use transit for essential travel only.
• Massachusetts: With the exception of heath care workers, public health workers, public safety workers, transportation workers and designated essential workers, all travelers arriving to Massachusetts are instructed to self-quarantine for 14 days. Visitors are instructed not to travel to the state if they are displaying symptoms.
• Nevada: Gov. Steve Sisolak issued a travel advisory, asking everyone entering the state to self-quarantine for 14 days, even if they have no symptoms of Covid-19.
• North Dakota: All travelers arriving to North Dakota from international locations and states with widespread coronavirus outbreaks must quarantine immediately for 14 days, according to the North Dakota Department of Health website.
• Oklahoma: Gov. Kevin Stitt issued an order requiring travelers from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, California, Louisiana and Washington to undergo a 14-day quarantine.
• Rhode Island: Gov. Gina Raimondo ordered that all out-of-state travelers will be stopped at the border and told to quarantine for 14 days if they intend to stay in the state.
• South Carolina: Travelers from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and the city of New Orleans will be ordered to isolate or self-quarantine for 14-days or the duration of their trip.
• Texas: Gov. Greg Abbott first ordered that people flying into Texas from New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and the city of New Orleans be quarantined for 14 days.
• Vermont: Gov. Phil Scott announced an order instructing anyone who enters Vermont from another state to self-quarantine for 14 days.
• West Virginia: State Police will be monitoring state roads and highways to enforce an executive order from Gov. Jim Justice that requires out-of-state citizens to self-quaratine for 14 days.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/31/us/states-travel-restrictions-list/index.html

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm talking about the state I live in in America. 276 have died out of a population of 3.2 million. We are not New York. We have flattened the curve big time thanks to locking down in early March. At no point were our hospitals in danger of becoming overwhelmed. Actually they are empty. Please explain why you think we, as in my state, cannot begin our own phased reopening plan based on those numbers? Yes, its the same country, but what is happening thousands of miles away is not relevant to us and our ability to safely reopen businesses.

Fact is, some places in America are perfectly fine to start reopening. Some aren't, so they are staying closed, such as New York. Some are opening too early yes. But most aren't. There's no reason to think that sensible phased reopening, going back steps if needed, is going to result in half a million deaths as posted earlier. That's just wishful thinking on the part of those who have a chip on their shoulder about the US for some reason. This whole thread is full of it.

I've no chip on my shoulder about the states. Its just fasinatingly stupid to watch Trump and his supporters in action. Like watching a car crash in slow motion. No one wants to see the deaths that will result but its inevitable.

Outlaw Pete

Liberal hack attempts another gotcha and Kayleigh beautifully turns it back on them:


https://twitter.com/NathanBrandWA/status/1258144088353697792

2u2me

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Liberal hack attempts another gotcha and Kayleigh beautifully turns it back on them:


https://twitter.com/NathanBrandWA/status/1258144088353697792

What a ****ty question to ask; and what a great response.

Danno

threeball wrote: »

I've no chip on my shoulder about the states. Its just fasinatingly stupid to watch Trump and his supporters in action. Like watching a car crash in slow motion. No one wants to see the deaths that will result but its inevitable.

Scoff all you like, but you'd better hope that Trump stays on for another term as he is far better placed to have the US economy roaring back than Joe Biden. Remember the old saying, when America gets a cold, the rest of the world gets the flu and Ireland gets pneumonia.

For all his ills, Trump is a businessman and treats the USA like a company, it's not perfect - but a damn sight better than a great depression. Have you noticed how Ireland's corporation tax take has increased substantially since he got into power over there?

fryup

they have the worst President in the worst time in their History, god help america if he gets re-elected

greenfield21

Danno wrote: »

Scoff all you like, but you'd better hope that Trump stays on for another term as he is far better placed to have the US economy roaring back than Joe Biden. Remember the old saying, when America gets a cold, the rest of the world gets the flu and Ireland gets pneumonia.

For all his ills, Trump is a businessman and treats the USA like a company, it's not perfect - but a damn sight better than a great depression. Have you noticed how Ireland's corporation tax take has increased substantially since he got into power over there?

This crisis looks like it will create an huge economic squeeze and put alot more pressure on government to pay for it through tax. Trump has already stated many times he is going to come after tech and pharma companies to get them to pay their fair share, this would be a huge negative for Ireland. Biden is a globalist shill and corporate so would be a much better friend to Ireland.

Leroy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Liberal hack attempts another gotcha and Kayleigh beautifully turns it back on them:


https://twitter.com/NathanBrandWA/status/1258144088353697792

It is actually pretty easy to have a great answer when facts don't matter.

She can say what she likes, she controls the room and she knows it. If things get hot she'll just walk away.

Most people get stuck because they fear how it looks or how they will be able to deal with the lie. None of that is a concern. Say what you want, however you want. Be nice, be nasty. Blame others and don't allow them any come back.

It makes for great popcorn TV. Unfortunately, her job her not to win against the media but to get facts out to the citizens of the US.

She has already shown herself disinterested in that. She is working 100% for Trump, not POTUS.


The very fact that she had those quotes at hand shows that she comes looking to fight, not inform. You will note that she completely failed to back up her statement on Gox. All she had was that various others were wrong as well.

So what a great comeback. 'Sure I was completely wrong and my faith in Trump was completely misplaced and he made a mess of things, but look other people were wrong too so, na na na'

2u2me

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Texas Governor and AG come out in support of the hairdresser that was jailed for refusing to apologise for opening her salon:

The U.S. government are simultaneously locking people in prison for breaking quarantine orders and releasing prisoners from jail because of concerns about them getting the corona virus.

Funny world we're living in!

NSAman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Cork people feel far removed from Dubs.

everyone feels far removed from Corkonians,, they are too short...

I understand where ceadaion is coming from. I live at the intersection of three states. Where i live we are still on a stay at home order, the state north of us has opened up slightly, the state to the west of us has not had a stay at home order.

I do not go to the state west due to the lack of mask wearing, walk in with a mask and people look at you. Also people from that state crossing the border are not wanted in our area due to lack of wearing masks etc... family outings to the supermarket etc. That state has also banned any cars from my state from going golfing for example due to stay at home orders in my state.

The State north of us had police checking people on the roads until recently. Now things have eased considerably.

Despite living 13 miles from the state to the west the differences are very noticeable. 15 cases in my county, versus 156 in the county 13 miles away. No deaths here 26 in the neighbouring county in the other state.

Our cases are ALL travel related (holiday homes/2nd houses) one community transmission case BUT testing is not happening still... so who can trust any of the figures?

Christy42

fryup wrote: »

they have the worst President in the worst time in their History, god help america if he gets re-elected

It isn't the best time but hardly the worst. Something like a world war or the civil war going on would be worse. He is up there with the dumbest.

No idea the task force was that popular. The mind boggles at the lunatic.

Kermit.de.frog

NSAman wrote: »

everyone feels far removed from Corkonians,, they are too short...

I understand where ceadaion is coming from. I live at the intersection of three states. Where i live we are still on a stay at home order, the state north of us has opened up slightly, the state to the west of us has not had a stay at home order.

I do not go to the state west due to the lack of mask wearing, walk in with a mask and people look at you. Also people from that state crossing the border are not wanted in our area due to lack of wearing masks etc... family outings to the supermarket etc. That state has also banned any cars from my state from going golfing for example due to stay at home orders in my state.

The State north of us had police checking people on the roads until recently. Now things have eased considerably.

Despite living 13 miles from the state to the west the differences are very noticeable. 15 cases in my county, versus 156 in the county 13 miles away. No deaths here 26 in the neighbouring county in the other state.

Our cases are ALL travel related (holiday homes/2nd houses) one community transmission case BUT testing is not happening still... so who can trust any of the figures?

Yes, but hardly the same as saying "I live next to France, Germany and Italy".

The EU is not a country, the US is.

That's the point i'm making.

2u2me

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes, but hardly the same as saying "I live next to France, Germany and Italy".

The EU is not a country, the US is.

That's the point i'm making.

It's more than just a country, it's a continent.