American response

threeball

lord quackinton wrote: »

what happened CNN?
i used to live in the states 15 years ago - CNN was a fairly straight forward news channel, yes it leaned left but i used to watch it for my news.
what will they do when trump goes? when he goes will CNN shut down?

If you think CNN is less biased and has less rational presenters than Fox then you really are on the Donnie train. Its not even a close run thing. Yes they don't like him but Fox is like a parody station rather than a news group.

gormdubhgorm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump tore up the rule book. He's continuing to do it right now by politicising the pandemic. They have more deaths than any other country but he blames China, WHO, the Democrats etc. ad nauseam. Recently, he's conjured up the farcical lie that is Obamagate to deflect from his corrupt incompetence. He doesn't care about people. He only cares about re-election. Nothing else matters.

Because he is a slave to his ego, he has no empathy and no principles. Therefore, playing by the rules when you are competing with him, simply won't work. He's a dangerous and mentally unwell man. He needs to be taken out of the White House and if that means going as low as him then so be it. It's for the greater good.

I agree with most of what you say. However, none of these you pointed out 'slave to his ego, no empathy, dangerous' does not mean he is mentally unwell.
Also Trump does have a guiding principle, he sees himself as a 'winner' who wants to win at all costs.

You could say much the same you have said about many in the entertainment/sport industry etc. You only have look at 'the last dance' on netflix to see Michael Jordan's will to win and be the top dog at all costs.

Trump is of the same mentality abhors losing and wants to be the top dog.
By being President you could argue that his methods have proven effective and he is No1. In charge of the most powerful nation on earth.

People all around the world have opinions on Trump. But how many of those with opinions have held the highest office in thier land? And a land of at least 300m people at that!

gormdubhgorm

hotmail.com wrote: »

He's good tv and people love reading articles about him.

He'll be a big loss to a lot of people when he goes.

Comedians will be ****ed.
All those late night USA tv hosts will actually have to make an effort, and write decent material when Trump goes.

gormdubhgorm

VinLieger wrote: »

No the president lied about his health

So did JFK

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/08/the-medical-ordeals-of-jfk/309469/

Regan and Roosevelt

https://www.history.com/news/5-presidents-who-hid-their-health-issues

Hardly a new phenomenon?

Plus nothing was done during thier terms because of it or after.

Leroy42

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Comedians will be ****ed.
All those late night USA tv hosts will actually have to make an effort, and write decent material when Trump goes.

You do know that late night TV wasn't invented after Trump became POTUS.

How long was the Johnny Carson show on air for.

And comedians? Some of the greatest comedians in the world would have never even heard of Trump.

gormdubhgorm

2u2me wrote: »

Michelle Obama tried to warn everyone too. "When they go low, we go high."

Here

By going low, they stand less of a chance of beating him, not a greater chance.

I got to be honest those silly soundbites of "When they go low, we go high" and those type of meaningless Americanism's annoy me.

Take it in context Michelle was endorsing Hillary Clinton at the time not the nicest of people, all about the career win at all costs and beset with her own shady dealings.

Michelle sounds great on the soft meaningless fluffy issues talking to young girl scouts and the like. Her husband did the same tactic. When he came to Ireland he did the same tactic 'Is feidir linn'.
But after all the furore died down on his visit. I thought what did he actually say? It was car-salesman stuff.

OK I agree Barack might be more polished than Trump. But Trump is just a different type of American car-salesman. Different style similar results.

gormdubhgorm

Leroy42 wrote: »

You do know that late night TV wasn't invented after Trump became POTUS.

How long was the Johnny Carson show on air for.

And comedians? Some of the greatest comedians in the world would have never even heard of Trump.

I know. But you know what I mean. The likes of Stephen Cobert have just got lazy 'dot dot dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot etc.

Christy42

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I agree with most of what you say. However, none of these you pointed out 'slave to his ego, no empathy, dangerous' does not mean he is mentally unwell.
Also Trump does have a guiding principle, he sees himself as a 'winner' who wants to win at all costs.

You could say much the same you have said about many in the entertainment/sport industry etc. You only have look at 'the last dance' on netflix to see Michael Jordan's will to win and be the top dog at all costs.

Trump is of the same mentality abhors losing and wants to be the top dog.
By being President you could argue that his methods have proven effective and he is No1. In charge of the most powerful nation on earth.

People all around the world have opinions on Trump. But how many of those with opinions have held the highest office in thier land? And a land of at least 300m people at that!

Well if you want to narrow it down to other people who have held the highest office in the US then they all think Trump is a disaster and stated so before the election.

That is like saying Jordan succeeded by making the Bills roster. Trump is president of the US. Winning is what he does with it and he has not done well. Many presidents will have their achievements debated, Trump will have his twitter ravings debated in future.

Trump isn't win at all costs. Trump is claim I won at all costs. Someone who was win at all costs wouldn't be satisfied with winning the presidency. He would want his achievements etched in history. By all accounts Trump doesn't have a clue what is going on in briefings and seems to have very little grasp of what his administration has or hasn't done.

Christy42

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I got to be honest those silly soundbites of "When they go low, we go high" and those type of meaningless Americanism's annoy me.

Take it in context Michelle was endorsing Hillary Clinton at the time not the nicest of people, all about the career win at all costs and beset with her own shady dealings.

Michelle sounds great on the soft meaningless fluffy issues talking to young girl scouts and the like. Her husband did the same tactic. When he came to Ireland he did the same tactic 'Is feidir linn'.
But after all the furore died down on his visit. I thought what did he actually say? It was car-salesman stuff.

OK I agree Barack might be more polished than Trump. But Trump is just a different type of American car-salesman. Different style similar results.

Obama managed to deal with plenty of different opinions in an effort to get through a health care plan. How did that work out when Trump tried to do the exact same thing?

Different styles. Different results.

lord quackinton

Christy42 wrote: »

Obama managed to deal with plenty of different opinions in an effort to get through a health care plan. How did that work out when Trump tried to do the exact same thing?

Different styles. Different results.

no he did not
obama lied to get his health plan through.
that plan has caused higher premiums, businesses are cutting employee hours to avoid paying cover, and taxes have increased.
and worse of all the standard of healthcare has fallen and this can be linked directly to how poorly states have responded to the covid response with trump having to provide billions of funding to the states.

Christy42

lord quackinton wrote: »

no he did not
obama lied to get his health plan through.
that plan has caused higher premiums, businesses are cutting employee hours to avoid paying cover, and taxes have increased.
and worse of all the standard of healthcare has fallen and this can be linked directly to how poorly states have responded to the covid response with trump having to provide billions of funding to the states.

Trump had 3 years, including 2 where Republicans controlled the house and Senate. Why didn't he get healthcare passed himself? If he felt Obamacare had issues he could have fixed them. He was the great negotiator and had people in office who would do well if he succeeded. Hey before he got elected Republicans had repeatedly voted to remove Obamacare. All he needed to do was get them to do it again just once more and all those evils of Obamacare would go away. Instead Republicans got scared they might be held accountable for removing it (wonder why if it was so terrible).

Is he going to blame Lincoln's plans next? If this happened in 2017 you would have a leg to stand on. It is 2020. This is on Trump. Heck he could have lied to get it through. What is one more on top of 18k or so. This one might have actually helped someone other than himself if what you say is correct.

By the way it seems plenty of people seem to like Obama are these days. As soon as there was a chance it could get removed it became super popular. So not everyone agrees with your assessment.

martingriff

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I know. But you know what I mean. The likes of Stephen Cobert have just got lazy 'dot dot dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot etc.

They are only playing with whats in front of them. They don't need to get out of first gear. Hell even some in Fox News are turning on him or they know they have to on some things as it concerns there own audience

hotmail.com

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Only to the terminally stupid.

Well I meant the people that dislike him. They love watching him and reading articles on him. Maybe they are stupid?

hotmail.com

threeball wrote: »

If you think CNN is less biased and has less rational presenters than Fox then you really are on the Donnie train. Its not even a close run thing. Yes they don't like him but Fox is like a parody station rather than a news group.

The poster didn't make a comparison with Fox or bias.

He's pointing out just how ridiculous CNN has become since Trump came along. CNN is now on parody levels just like Fox. From an Irish point of view, American media is dire.

ceadaoin.

hotmail.com wrote: »

The poster didn't make a comparison with Fox or bias.

He's pointing out just how ridiculous CNN has become since Trump came along. CNN is now on parody levels just like Fox. From an Irish point of view, American media is dire.

I said this yesterday and of course that means I must be a Trump supporter trying to deflect from fox News. Nope. Just someone who would usually watch CNN but is turning off because I'm sick of the literal ranting from the presenters (cuomo and lemon in particular) its not "news" in any sense of the word.

hotmail.com

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I said this yesterday and of course that means I must be a Trump supporter trying to deflect from fox News. Nope. Just someone who would usually watch CNN but is turning off because I'm sick of the literal ranting from the presenters (cuomo and lemon in particular) its not "news" in any sense of the word.

Why watch American media at all?

And I agree, CNN is just as bad as all the others. It's been dire since the early 90s.

Carfacemandog

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I know. But you know what I mean. The likes of Stephen Cobert have just got lazy 'dot dot dot, dot, dot, dot, dot dot etc.

Actually something a lot of comedians have lamented is that it is impossible to parody the stupidity of this administration, or the cult like adherence of its supporters.

There are countless examples, but here is just one from about two months ago - the Onion 'predicted' Trumps bleach idiocy, because there is no floor to the idiocy of this lot: https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-coronavirus-bleach-cure-the-onion-joke-9483601

ceadaoin.

hotmail.com wrote: »

Why watch American media at all?

And I agree, CNN is just as bad as all the others. It's been dire since the early 90s.

I live in america, so its hard to avoid American media!

hotmail.com

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I live in america, so its hard to avoid American media!

That's a pity for you.

silverharp

Cuomo is starting to get some heat over their policy of sending patients back to nursing homes, the nursing homes weren't allowed to know the status of the patients

https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/blame-governors-for-coronavirus-deaths-in-nursing-homes-goodwin/

he striking contrast between Florida on one hand and New York and New Jersey on the other can be traced largely to policy decisions by their governors. Gov. ­Andrew Cuomo of New York and Gov. Phil Murphy of New Jersey issued almost identical orders in late March requiring nursing homes to accept COVID-19 patients being discharged from hospitals. The orders barred the homes from even asking if the patients had the virus, lest they be discriminated against.

lord quackinton

Christy42 wrote: »

Trump had 3 years, including 2 where Republicans controlled the house and Senate. Why didn't he get healthcare passed himself? If he felt Obamacare had issues he could have fixed them. He was the great negotiator and had people in office who would do well if he succeeded. Hey before he got elected Republicans had repeatedly voted to remove Obamacare. All he needed to do was get them to do it again just once more and all those evils of Obamacare would go away. Instead Republicans got scared they might be held accountable for removing it (wonder why if it was so terrible).

Is he going to blame Lincoln's plans next? If this happened in 2017 you would have a leg to stand on. It is 2020. This is on Trump. Heck he could have lied to get it through. What is one more on top of 18k or so. This one might have actually helped someone other than himself if what you say is correct.

By the way it seems plenty of people seem to like Obama are these days. As soon as there was a chance it could get removed it became super popular. So not everyone agrees with your assessment.

firstly john mccain saved obamacare. he hated it but he saved it.


obama was in power 8 years and left the country financially, militarily and spiritually broke. he was average on the economy, cowardly when it came to dealing with russia, china and iran, and played identity politics and the divide in america today he played a large part in it.
trump is right - obama was the worst american president in our lifetime.

you have to go back to lyndon b johnson to find someone who was more divisive and dangerous then obama.


for the record obamas white house constantly blamed bush junior for the economic woes and the war situations obama could not solve.
which is worse - trump blaming obama for leaving the cupboard bare or obama hatching a plan to go after trump by using the fbi and the dept of justice and the CIA.

the democratic party are more dangerous to america then the CCP.

Carfacemandog

silverharp wrote: »

Cuomo is starting to get some heat over their policy of sending patients back to nursing homes, the nursing homes weren't allowed to know the status of the patients

https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/blame-governors-for-coronavirus-deaths-in-nursing-homes-goodwin/

I wonder how much the 'striking difference' between NY and Florida has to do with this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5218897002

After USA TODAY Network first reported Jones' removal from her position in charge of the Florida COVID-19 Data and Surveillance Dashboard she created, she confirmed, as reported by CBS-12 in West Palm Beach that she was fired because she was ordered to censor some data, but refused to "manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242773056.html

“As a word of caution, I would not expect the new team to continue the same level of accessibility and transparency that I made central to the process during the first two months,” wrote Jones, who holds a Ph.D. in geography from Florida State University. “After all, my commitment to both is largely [arguably entirely] the reason I am no longer managing it.”

A remind er that this is Florida's Governor who is dro ing the reopening - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z1YP_zZJFXs

Leroy42

firstly john mccain saved obamacare. he hated it but he saved it.

So what. The charge was that Trump, despite repeal and replace being a major pillar of his election, failed to convince a GOP led House and Senate to R&R. You can blame anyone you like but it lies at Trump's door that he failed. The fact that he hated it, yet found Trumps alternative even worse tells you all you need to know. Trumps attempt was so awful, so inept, that even his own party, who had been doing everything in their power for years to get rid of Obamacare, acknowledged that Trump had nothing to offer.

Obama was in power 8 years and left the country financially, militarily and spiritually broke. he was average on the economy, cowardly when it came to dealing with russia, china and iran, and played identity politics and the divide in america today he played a large part in it.
trump is right - obama was the worst american president in our lifetime.

Obama took over from the biggest regression in years and returned numbers that even before Covid Trump was struggling to better, and this despite the biggest coroprate tax giveaway ever. Trump promised 5%+ GRP growth, he never got anywhere near it. Trum is the very leader of identify politics. You either agree with him or you are the enemy, there is no in between. Even yesterday, he called a science report on the effects of a drug as Anti-Trump because he didn't agree with it!

In terms of China, Trump just lost a trade war and ended up back where he started, after having to bail out famers with bns of $'s. Iran. Obama got a deal with Iran that, whatever else, reduced the hostilaty and the liklihood a nuclera wepons in the country for a number of years.

you have to go back to lyndon b johnson to find someone who was more divisive and dangerous then obama.

In your opinion. Dangerous? To whom was he dangerous? Divisive? He had higher popularity than Trump and by almost every measure the US is more split now that ever before.


f

or the record obamas white house constantly blamed bush junior for the economic woes and the war situations obama could not solve.
which is worse - trump blaming obama for leaving the cupboard bare or obama hatching a plan to go after trump by using the fbi and the dept of justice and the CIA.

Every Admin is going to blame the admin before it, but at some point they have to come up with solutions rather than blame. Trump, despite being in the WH fr over 3 years, continue to blame everything on Obama and seems incapable of coming up with any solutions himself.

the democratic party are more dangerous to america then the CCP.

You cannot honestly think that the DNC are more dangerous to American than the CCP? How can you hold that view when Trump claims that almost everything wrong with the US is somehow the fault of China?

Christy42

lord quackinton wrote: »

firstly john mccain saved obamacare. he hated it but he saved it.


obama was in power 8 years and left the country financially, militarily and spiritually broke. he was average on the economy, cowardly when it came to dealing with russia, china and iran, and played identity politics and the divide in america today he played a large part in it.
trump is right - obama was the worst american president in our lifetime.

you have to go back to lyndon b johnson to find someone who was more divisive and dangerous then obama.


for the record obamas white house constantly blamed bush junior for the economic woes and the war situations obama could not solve.
which is worse - trump blaming obama for leaving the cupboard bare or obama hatching a plan to go after trump by using the fbi and the dept of justice and the CIA.

the democratic party are more dangerous to america then the CCP.

Healthcare will be so easy. Why did Trump fail on such an easy task.

Imagine having a conversation of why did you fail in politics. Well people disagreed with me so I didn't do anything. I mean that is an admission of being one of the worst politicians in history. People disagree with politicians plans all the time. It is their job to bloody convince them.

If getting rid of Obamacare was such an easy win it should have been easy. There were a lot more republican defectors than John McCain.


Given your hatred of Obama I am presuming you are going to hold Trump to a higher standard and not simply blame the last guy. Nevermind that changing healthcare laws is a bit different to extracting troops from a state your country has left a power vacuum in. Like really, Obama is the worst President ever but also it is fine Trump did a thing because Obama did it is quite frankly a nonsensical argument.

I mean. The economy was absolutely booming when Obama left office by any particular metric that Trump uses to justify the economy pre covid. Sure Obama used to deep state to hurt Trump and the man going on crazy rantings isn't actually crazy. I would go on occams razor here and avoid conspiracy theories.

@Leroy:CCP is the ruling party in China.

joseywhales

On the us media, I think it's important to recognise that most presenters are just like columnists in newspapers giving some opinion not backed by evidence, they are not the investigative journalists whose piece must be factual and balanced. It is not the news. Posing rhetorical questions to nobody and answering them yourself is not a form of discovery.

da_miser

Whats going on here?
Trump ahead of the pack yet again?
UK bulk buys hydroxychloroquine
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/19/uk-to-test-hydroxychloroqine-as-coronavirus-treatment

Christy42

da_miser wrote: »

Whats going on here?
Trump ahead of the pack yet again?
UK bulk buys hydroxychloroquine
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/19/uk-to-test-hydroxychloroqine-as-coronavirus-treatment

The UK still does not advise its use for covid is the important part of that article.

Carfacemandog

This truly is one of the more blatant examples of stupidity surrounding Trump. This has already been proven not to work, and to kill people, after he went went hawking it for the company that pays to have access to him a few months ago.

Now we see this cycle repeat, as if none of that ever happened. And it will be proven to do nothing for covid while also killing people.

And in 2-4 months time, I will bet Trump will hawk it again. And this cycle will repeat... again.

It actually makes no sense whatsoever.

lord quackinton

Carfacemandog wrote: »

This truly is one of the more blatant examples of stupidity surrounding Trump. This has already been proven not to work, and to kill people, after he went went hawking it for the company that pays to have access to him a few months ago.

Now we see this cycle repeat, as if none of that ever happened. And it will be proven to do nothing for covid while also killing people.

And in 2-4 months time, I will bet Trump will hawk it again. And this cycle will repeat... again.

It actually makes no sense whatsoever.

what that mean??
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...irus-treatment

Carfacemandog

lord quackinton wrote: »

what that mean??
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...irus-treatment

Also the guardian, a few weeks ago:

Trump stops hyping hydroxychloroquine after study shows no benefit... Fox News staffers also backed away from promoting drug after a recent US trial did not go well
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/22/trump-hydroxychloroquine-study-coronavirus

We'll go through this same cycle at least once more before the end of the summer.