American response

ChikiChiki

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Some people don't understand the federal state governance system

Many of the Republican Governors only opened up to appease Trump off the back of his ludicrous statements.

Rjd2

Leroy42 wrote: »

They were 'forced' to because POTUS ran a campaign that everything was fine, masks were not necessary, the virus was a hoax, plenty of ventilators, the economy needs to get back.

So instead of being able to take a cautious approach, states were put on the back foot on having to explain why they were restricting peoples freedom.

Remember his tweet about Liberty, in support of those protesting against lockdown?

Remember he threatened Governors of they didn't agree with him?

Due to Trump being so utterly incompetent many pass off what he says and does as irrelevant or harmless, when the position of POTUS gives him immense importance and influence.

Americans are finding to their cost that POTUS is not a game, not something to be taken lightly of passed off as something that any eejit can do.

It has real consequences, in this case people are dying and the economy is going to be hit much harder and longer than it could have been.

Of course.

Trump has totally failed here. I don't think ceadaoin was trying to clear him just chatting about the protesters regarding the lockdown.

ceadaoin.

Rjd2 wrote: »

Of course.

Trump has totally failed here. I don't think ceadaoin was trying to clear him just chatting about the protesters regarding the lockdown.

Yeah I'm not sure how my post where I literally said Trump was a ****show could he construed as defending him. Wasn't even really talking about the actual anti lockdown protesters, but the millions of normal people who wanted to get back to work and who weren't making a political statement, just wanting to support themselves again or face losing everything.

threeball

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yeah Trump is a ****show, but no state was "forced" to reopen. They had no choice but to because they would be completely ****ed otherwise. There are still loads of people in my state who haven't received a penny of the unemployment benefits that they are entitled to. Loads of non citizens, legal and not, who aren't entitled to anything. My husband has paid a lot of taxes over 7 years and cant claim anything. Fortunately we are ok for now but others aren't so lucky. The system is broken. Not everyone wanting to get back to work so that they dont end up homeless is a mindless trump drone.

Many states are still under some form of restrictions. We are staying in phase 2 for now so its not like the whole country has thrown the doors completely open. If you look at the curves for each individual state, most would look a lot more like Europe.

You've been pedalling this line for near 2 months now. Anytime anyone said that reopening was nuts and not enough was being done to control it you kept spouting the every state is different line. Turns out that one has a massive effect on the others and that trumps active encouragement to break the rules had huge implications.

You told me to come back to you when numbers spiked and you were proven wrong. Well here I am.......

ceadaoin.

threeball wrote: »

You've been pedalling this line for near 2 months now. Anytime anyone said that reopening was nuts and not enough was being done to control it you kept spouting the every state is different line. Turns out that one has a massive effect on the others and that trumps active encouragement to break the rules had huge implications.

You told me to come back to you when numbers spiked and you were proven wrong. Well here I am.......

Did I tell you that? Good for you for being right I guess. I'm not trying to "pedal" anything. Every state is different. Its a fact. I've also acknowledged on several occasions that some states opened too early.

rahmalec

I’m curious, why are the death rates so low this time round? I know they will lag new cases by a few weeks but over 9000 cases in Florida and only 26 deaths? Is it the case that the spike in New York in April was actually way bigger than reported due to low testing, and the numbers reported now are more reflective of the actual number of cases going around? Any thoughts?

Jim_Hodge

rahmalec wrote: »

I’m curious, why are the death rates so low this time round? I know they will lag new cases by a few weeks but over 9000 cases in Florida and only 26 deaths? Is it the case that the spike in New York in April was actually way bigger than reported due to low testing, and the numbers reported now are more reflective of the actual number of cases going around? Any thoughts?

Time lag plus

- Indiana: 1,832 COVID-19 deaths; 2,149 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 384)
- Illinois: 4,856 COVID-19 deaths; 3,986 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 782)
- Tennessee: 336 COVID-19 deaths; 1,704 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 611)
- Ohio: 1,969 COVID-19 deaths; 2,327 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 820)
- Virginia: 1,208 COVID-19 deaths; 1,394 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 451)
- West Virginia: 72 COVID-19 deaths; 438 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 117)

Carfacemandog

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yeah Trump is a ****show, but no state was "forced" to reopen. They had no choice but to because they would be completely ****ed otherwise. There are still loads of people in my state who haven't received a penny of the unemployment benefits that they are entitled to. Loads of non citizens, legal and not, who aren't entitled to anything. My husband has paid a lot of taxes over 7 years and cant claim anything. Fortunately we are ok for now but others aren't so lucky. The system is broken. Not everyone wanting to get back to work so that they dont end up homeless is a mindless trump drone.

Many states are still under some form of restrictions. We are staying in phase 2 for now so its not like the whole country has thrown the doors completely open. If you look at the curves for each individual state, most would look a lot more like Europe.

1. "Forcing' depends by state, but many did have heavily armed protesters storming state capital buildings inky a month or two ago, at the behest of the president calling for then to take up arms and 'liberate' said states. That's unquestionably was an attempt to force their hand to reopen at the threat of violence revolt if they didn't, and had it escalated Trump had made quote clear whose side he (who controls federal forces) would be siding with.

2. Cheques aren't 'the system' being broken, they are the Trump adninistration refusing to assist in a manner that many other wealthy nations governments did. In Ireland, €350 ($400) was given weekly to each adult caught out of work, while up north in Canada people were given 75% of their pay by the federal government - including non citizens. In the UK it was 80% of I recall, and all of these countries did well paying promptly and processing efficiently.

3. What you are saying about curves doesn't seem to be the case at all. Europe was hit far heavier than everywhere in the US bar a handful of northeastern states, largely owing to the US having one third of Europe's population density. Yesterday, only 4 countries in Europe had over 400 new cases (Russia, UK, Spain, Ukraine) while 25 of 50 US states had over 400 new cases with a lot of states being at or near their peaks in the last two weeks or so, as the sparse density advantage has worn off thanks to sheer recklessness. And of those 4, two have been poster nations of how - not - to handle this pandemic (UK, Russia) whole Spain has been a mixture of that also, or of a cautionary tale of just how bad this can get and how quickly that the rest of us should have (and for the most part did) heed.

The US has less than half of Europe's population, yet recorded more than 3.5 times the number of new cases yesterday. Even removing the top 8 states from that, the US still had more cases than all of Europe with none removed. Nevada which you reside in if I recall has 16,000 total cases - over 1,000 of these came from yesterday alone. And all of this despite Rhode Island and Louisiana, each in the top 7 states of per capita cases (the latter adding 1,000+ cases a day lately) not reporting yesterday!

Much of the US is in absolutely no position to be moving into stage 2 and should be looking at reentering lockdown, if anything. This is why the EU has stated on Friday that it is looking to ban entry from the US, and absolutely rightly so.

Kermit.de.frog

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Time lag plus

Yes, the deaths are being doctored. I think most know that.

This has been known in Florida for a while hence scientists resigning and on one famous occasion being fired for failing to follow orders in that regard.

That scientist has been giving the real running death toll on her own website with whistleblower assistance and it's bleak.

Carfacemandog

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I live in Vegas, we are very aware of this possibility. That is why we have joined the western states pact, to coordinate as much as possible because those states make up the bulk of our domestic visitors. The reopening will be in phases of 2-3 weeks each so that they can see if there are any increases in cases, if so then we go back. casinos will not reopen until phase 3 or 4, and even then with social distancing in place as much as possible. They have already released their own plans for this such as testing employees and wearing masks etc. Right now we aren't even in phase 1, but that should be on or before may 15 if things keep going the way they are.

Its almost as if the experts have already thought of all the things you mention....

Seeing the few posts between the one I quoted and my response to it reminded me of this post, from May 1st. The bold emphasis is mine.

Nevada (pop. 3mn) has reopened Vegas casinos, despite apparently not yet even being in phase 2. Yesterday, the state added a record further 1,099 new cases.

ceadaoin.

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Seeing the few posts between the one I quoted and my response to it reminded me of this post, from May 1st. The bold emphasis is mine.

Nevada (pop. 3mn) has reopened Vegas casinos, despite apparently not yet even being in phase 2. Yesterday, the state added a record further 1,099 new cases.

We are in phase 2 for a while now. We arent moving into phase 3 yet. Yeah, the governor originally said phase 3 for casinos. Guess he lied..or maybe its something to do with putting the former CEO of MGM resorts in charge of the coronavirus taskforce.

Masks are mandatory and social distancing is in place just like I said back then. they should have made masks mandatory from the start though.

There was a backlog of cases which is why the number was so high yesterday. Cases are rising though, but not by as much as that. Yet. We are averaging around 320 cases a day and doing around 3000-5000 tests per day.

And yes, "the system" is literally broken. People can't get through to call centers. For weeks or months. They havent been paid. not for the stimulus cheques, they got those, but for the regular unemployment payments that they are entitled to if they become unemployed. The system was unable to cope with the amount of claims and still isnt able to after some months. Not sure if this is an issue in other states? Maybe they have better systems in place.

https://www.ktnv.com/news/detr-reports-declining-unemployment-numbers-as-class-action-lawsuit-alleges-failure-to-pay-around-60k-nevada-gig-workers

extra gravy

https://twitter.com/BrynnTannehill/status/1277211131430535168?s=19

It'd be funny if it wasn't so infuriating.

Danzy

rahmalec wrote: »

I’m curious, why are the death rates so low this time round? I know they will lag new cases by a few weeks but over 9000 cases in Florida and only 26 deaths? Is it the case that the spike in New York in April was actually way bigger than reported due to low testing, and the numbers reported now are more reflective of the actual number of cases going around? Any thoughts?

Is it Vitamin D?

Given the size of America the death toll has been quite small. Lockdown like we had wasn't an option there, if the world was to avoid a depression yet the death toll is near enough to ours. It is not like they have done much to avoid it, looking at the mass protests and people not wearing masks.

What is the specific factor causing that

We took the right approach, for us.

Hopefully it will continue to work out reasonably ok for the yanks.

alchemist33

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Time lag plus

The manipulation of stats there is massive. Tough question, I know, but are any other countries manipulating to that extent?

Christy42

alchemist33 wrote: »

The manipulation of stats there is massive. Tough question, I know, but are any other countries manipulating to that extent?

The US is in a worse position to manipulate stats than many. They are doing it (see "pneumonia deaths") but places like China, Iran, Russia and Brasil can hide it a lot easier.

I would suspect they have done far more cooking the books than the US.

ceadaoin.

Does anyone have a link to the pneumonia deaths thing? I've tried to Google a few states but can't find those numbers.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1277628333447135234

Frank Bullitt

A very concerning trend, they never even remotely flattened the curve.

ChikiChiki

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1277628333447135234

The responses to that tweet alone are incredible. That country is so polarised right now. It will take the work of a few presidents to unite it once again and recover the damage done in the past 4 years.

Rjd2

Cuomo of all people lecturing about the virus is ****ing hilarious.

New York numbers have been horrific, but because he has a brother working in CNN and MSNBC wont dare criticise a mainstream Dem, their are people online who despite been aware of the numbers and how responsible New York is for the spread of the virus think Cuomo has done a good job. Propaganda is a bitch.

These were the brothers last week laughing away, not a care in the world last week.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1276126502569095168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1276126502569095168%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D113846395

Rjd2

Rjd2 wrote: »

Cuomo of all people lecturing about the virus is ****ing hilarious.

New York numbers have been horrific, but because he has a brother working in CNN and MSNBC wont dare criticise a mainstream Dem, their are people online who despite been aware of the numbers and how responsible New York is for the spread of the virus think Cuomo has done a good job. Propaganda is a bitch.

These were the brothers last week laughing away, not a care in the world last week.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1276126502569095168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1276126502569095168%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D113846395

That tweet is american politics in a nutshell; a relatively innocuous clip with someone making insanely over the top parallels.

threeball

Probably the most damning tweet of all

https://twitter.com/votevets/status/1277295496105807873?s=20

When the vets turn on you you're toast

Timberrrrrrrr

threeball wrote: »

Probably the most damning tweet of all

https://twitter.com/votevets/status/1277295496105807873?s=20

When the vets turn on you you're toast

if this keeps up I can see Trump losing by the biggest margin ever.

Rjd2

Deleted User wrote: »

That tweet is american politics in a nutshell; a relatively innocuous clip with someone making insanely over the top parallels.

A little over the top , but that doesn't absolve the 2 lads bragging about older brother's supposed success when the numbers in New York have been horrific.

Plenty of Dem governors have excelled in this crisis, but him taking a victory lap is revolting.

MadYaker

Rjd2 wrote: »

A little over the top , but that doesn't absolve the 2 lads bragging about older brother's supposed success when the numbers in New York have been horrific.

Plenty of Dem governors have excelled in this crisis, but him taking a victory lap is revolting.

What was he supposed to do when there was hundreds of cases before anyone knew what was happening? You know the White House ignored intel on this as far back as January and then Trump peddles utter fantasies on twitter until April. Cuomo doesn't get info from the CIA it's the WH's job to give that to the states and they failed. How are the numbers looking in NY now by the way? Are they going up or down I wonder? You've had numerous pot shots at Cuomo in this thread, its your way of defending trump, drag others down etc. He did the best he could with the hand he was dealt, as good as any european leader. Not perfect, but pretty fcuking good and a hell of a lot better than the guy who is supposed to be in charge.

Rjd2

MadYaker wrote: »

What was he supposed to do when there was hundreds of cases before anyone knew what was happening? You know the White House ignored intel on this as far back as January and then Trump peddles utter fantasies on twitter until April. Cuomo doesn't get info from the CIA it's the WH's job to give that to the states and they failed. How are the numbers looking in NY now by the way? Are they going up or down I wonder? You've had numerous pot shots at Cuomo in this thread, its your way of defending trump, drag others down etc. He did the best he could with the hand he was dealt, as good as any european leader. Not perfect, but pretty fcuking good and a hell of a lot better than the guy who is supposed to be in charge.

I have criticised Trump and how he handled the virus plenty here. Its an annoying feature of this site where if you criticise a mainstream Dem people immediately assume you are a Trumper. It shouldn't be considered a radical idea criticising left and right but alas welcome to the Internet in 2020.

Cuomo taking a victory lap after 31 000 people died and showing no interest in taking blame for the nursing home scandal because he knows his brother etc will run interference for him is the icing on an incredibly ****ty cake.

He also was taking potshots at Ron De Santis the other day for twitter likes, Ron also has not had an erratic covid but as of last week deaths per one million New York under the "magnificent" Cuomo 1,613 where as in Florida 155.

Sorry Mr Cuomo you don't get to sneer at anyone after your "results".

While their as many Dem governors who deserve to be praised hugely, Cuomo certainly isn't one of them.

Harry Palmr

United States reportedly not on the "safe travel" list to be issued by the EU later today, Canada is as is Uruguay.

Timberrrrrrrr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

United States reportedly not on the "safe travel" list to be issued by the EU later today, Canada is as is Uruguay.

The twitter meltdown should be pretty hilarious

Itssoeasy

Harry Palmr wrote: »

United States reportedly not on the "safe travel" list to be issued by the EU later today, Canada is as is Uruguay.

Not at all surprised and I agree with the decision. The European Union as a whole has low numbers of cases and it would be stupid to allow people from a country with a huge spike in cases and are near 40,000 daily cases.

CaliforniaDream

I haven’t read the whole thread, just the last few pages so forgive me if I’m not contributing much to the discussion.

I live in Nevada also and once the riots started around the country it’s like the whole city forgot about Covid-19.

Masks are mandated in public areas but it’s not enforced and I’ve entered many stores with people having them pulled down to their chin.
I haven’t gone to bars much but I’ve walked through a couple of casinos and there’s no social distancing at the slot machines or tables at all.
I’m due to go back to work on Saturday and my job puts me in direct contact with people without being able to adhere to the 6ft rule.
I’ve no doubt that I’ll get Covid, or have already, I just don’t know if I’ll be symptomatic which is the big issue.

Our city has clearly shown they can’t be responsible when it came to reopening things and I wouldn’t be surprised if we went to another lockdown like Arizona, Texas and Florida.
The whole country has unravelled in the past three months and I can’t see it being fixed for a long time to come.