Gangland Shootings part 3 - Read OP before posting - updated 27/12/23

blinding

That Video cost a good bit. There was a lot of Extras if nothing else !

Justanoseygit

The ‘documentary’ was exactly as most folk thought it was going to be.
The most obvious things that stood out for me were
- the guy cast as ‘Handsome Dan’ arriving at the venue on his own
- the ‘Daniel was worried that the boxing fans and their families, there to enjoy themselves, were now at risk’
- the almost perfect attention to detail recreating the Regency Hotel reception
and
- the guy turning back to the van, having an uncanny resemblance to the Tac 2 suspect
That video wasn’t cheap to put together, and was professionally made,and any respect
that the Scarcity guy had gained, for his own videos that he has put up, appears to have
disappeared down the drain.

blinding

Justanoseygit wrote: »

The ‘documentary’ was exactly as most folk thought it was going to be.
The most obvious things that stood out for me were
- the guy cast as ‘Handsome Dan’ arriving at the venue on his own
- the ‘Daniel was worried that he boxing fans and their families, there to enjoy themselves, were now at risk’
- the almost perfect attention to detail recreating the Regency Hotel reception
and
- the guy turning back to the van, having an uncanny resemblance to the Tac 2 suspect
That video wasn’t cheap to put together, and was professionally made,and any respect
that the Scarcity guy had gained, for his own videos that he has put up, appears to have
disappeared down the drain.

Daniel O’Donnell could have played Daniel Kinahan the way the video was made to make him look good ! !

Don Logan

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What I still don't get about the Regency is that the Kinahan side have never addressed the allegation that they accepted a payoff from The Monk to spare Gary Hutch's life, and that they then reneged on this and had him shot anyway without further provocation. This was ultimately why, even before the one-sided bloodbath from the Byrne side began, so many people had already made of their minds that Daniel was the villain in the story and not any of the Hutches.

How true is any of that? The Hutches literally released a statement about it to the Sunday Times in the days after the Regency which is very unusual in itself. The truth is almost always more complicated than media reports especially when the primary source is people directly involved in such a feud, but when combined with the all-out slaughter of Hutch relatives in the months following the Regency attack, a surprising number of people I talked to about it formed the view that the Kinahan side were out-and-out dishonest scumbags and that the Regency was deserved comeuppance, despite the fact that from all accounts David Byrne had nothing to do with whatever happened between Daniel and Gary and was targeted simply because he was a close friend and they hadn't managed to get their actual target.

Do any of the folks who seem to have a lot of knowledge about this whole feud happen to know if this statement from the Hutches is accurate or is there more to it? It seems odd to me based on everything I've read about Christy Snr that he'd do something like accepting a bribe such as this and then going ahead with a shooting without further provocation towards doing so. But this is the statement which set the tone for how a lot of people came to view the overall feud once it was underway.

In a statement to The Sunday Times, the Hutch family accused the Kinahan cartel of also murdering Eddie Hutch at his Ballybough home last Monday night.

Associates of Gary Hutch were behind an attempted hit on Daniel Kinahan during the audacious gun attack at the Regency Hotel in north Dublin on February 5 that saw drug dealer Byrne whacked.

The Kinahan cartel struck back just three days later as Eddie Hutch died in a hail of bullets.

In their statement, the Hutch family accused the Kinahan cartel of going back on a “truce” agreed between both sides to avoid further bloodshed.

The family said: “Gary had a falling out with the Kinahan organisation. This matter was resolved and €200,000 in cash was paid over to the Kinahans. We shook hands and agreed to walk away. Gary was then murdered for no reason. You cannot trust these people.”

Daniel and Fat Freddie try to escape Irish Sun reporter's questions

The Hutches said they met Kinahan members in the past two weeks at an undisclosed location in Europe.

The statement claims a second demand for another €200,000 cash payment was issued, adding: “The Kinahan organisation have attempted to kill Gerard (‘The Monk’ Hutch) on several occasions in recent months. We are being terrorised by the cartel. Kinahans’ representatives said members of our family would be killed, or forced to leave their homes and Ireland if their demands for money were not met.

“We believe the Kinahan drugs cartel murdered Eddie at his home in Dublin last Monday having approached him days before with demands for money.

Our extended family are under threat from these people.” The Hutches also denied any of the family were involved in the drugs war and insisted that they did not want to get embroiled in violence.

The statement continued: “We are well known in the north inner-city and have no involvement in drugs.

“Our family are involved in various charitable, religious and sports groups which help young people. We are not involved in drug dealing.”

Source is The Sun purely because the Times article is behind a paywall, but I've linked that as well. The statement was originally given directly to the Times and the Sun as usual just copied and pasted it.

https://www.thesun.ie/archives/irish-news/143204/kinahan-boys-are-whack-in-town-mob-brothers-jet-in-for-gangland-burial/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hutch-family-paid-200-000-to-settle-feud-xqf3h5cwm

I heard it was The Monk & Christy Sr. who brokered a truce for Gary and the monk payed compo money up front but DK went ahead with the shooting anyway going against Daddy’s wishes and look where that lead to.

Don Logan

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok this is interesting, because Sadie held up a placard outside the court on the day the trial collapsed which was censored and pixelated from every angle, by every source which carried a photograph of it. I've had a Byrning curiosity (excuse the pun ) to know what she wanted to tell the world on that placard ever since the photographs of it with the actual card pixellated out did the rounds, there are several photographs of her holding this document from several different angles and all of them have photoshopped it so you can't read what she had written on it. In this one you can see that someone behind her is also holding a placard and it's also been pixellated out:



I don't suppose any of ye have an insight into what was on it?

It says “Epstein didn’t kill himself”

Ash.J.Williams

Don Logan wrote: »

It says “Epstein didn’t kill himself”

Jet fuel can’t melt Steele beams

Alderbuck

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Read up on why the case collapsed. What it looks like to me is that multiple Gardaí have to positively identify a suspect from photographic or CCTV evidence in order for a Garda statement of someone's identity to be considered legitimate evidence (presumably to prevent a Garda with a grudge from mis-identifying and framing an innocent person for personal reasons), and that in this particular case, perhaps out of a desperation to score a victory after the feud had made law enforcement look incredibly helpless against the gangs, they decided to collude in identifying Hutch from that photograph, and that essentially, officers who claimed to identify him just by knowing him, were actually prompted by others to do so, to be sure of getting a conviction.

That's just a theory, but it seems the most likely explanation. The entire hold-up in the trial came about because the defense alleged that the photo identification procedure had been breached and they were demanding to see emails between four Gardaí, presumably to check if they had indeed colluded on naming him as the suspect without actually independently recognising him.

While the trial was on hold as the defence argued with the prosecution over access to these emails, Detective Colm Fox (the lead investigator in the case) committed suicide and made reference to "a grave error of judgment" in his suicide note. This note was handed in to the trial judge, who suspended the entire trial pending a DPP investigation. The DPP ultimately decided to drop the charges after looking in to the case.

My suspicion is that the emails would have revealed that the photo identification process did indeed involve prompting, and that Fox felt guilty that the trial would collapse just because they'd been in such a hurry to nail Hutch that they bent the rules and thus compromised the entire trial. But that's just a total guess based on piecing together all the media reports which came out around the time of the trial being repeatedly delayed, and its aftermath. You can read through them yourselves here:

(Articles in chronological order as the trial progressed and ultimately collapsed)

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/almost-500-garda%C3%AD-did-not-recognise-patrick-hutch-in-photo-trial-hears-1.3360170

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/gardai-made-dogs-dinner-of-identifying-gunman-in-wig-trial-told-36519809.html

https://www.fm104.ie/news/fm104-news/regency-murder-trial-to-continue/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/regency-murder-trial-delayed-as-hutch-lawyer-seeks-documents-1.3383342 <--- This is where, after the photograph was deemed admissible, the defence demanded to see the email chain between four Gardaí involved

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2018/0219/941795-regency-murder-trial/ <--- The first adjournment:

The trial of a man accused of murder at the Regency Hotel in Dublin two years ago has been adjourned for three days after the court heard "a complicated" matter had arisen.

The prosecution claims that Patrick Hutch, 25, from Champions Avenue in Dublin was the man dressed as a woman carrying a gun on the day David Byrne was shot dead at the Regency Hotel on 5 February 2016.

Mr Hutch has denied the charges of murder and related firearms offences.

Defence Counsel Michael O'Higgins said material would have to be considered and he would be applying for either a retrial or for the existing court to continue hearing the case following a lengthy adjournment.

He said "certain matters" needed to be "investigated" and "that will take time".

Mr Justice Tony Hunt said matters appeared to be proceeding in the background and he adjourned the case until Thursday.

The trial was due to continue the following week, but then Det. Fox was found dead, five days later, new material handed in to the trial presented "unprecedented conundrums" and required the trial to be adjourned:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/regency-trial-adjourned-due-to-unprecedented-conundrums-1.3397520

Following this, notes written by Det. Fox were handed in to the trial and this caused a further adjournment while the circumstances of his death were investigated:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-adjourns-regency-trial-after-notes-authored-by-late-investigating-garda-handed-in-36631879.html

When the case was called today, Sean Gillane SC, prosecuting, thanked the court for its time and asked the judges to first receive some material and to rise to read it.

He said it was "not material I am going to open to the court" and said it was "notes authored by the late Detective Superintendent."

He said the material would provide some context to the application that would be made.

Michael O’Higgins SC, defending, said that was appropriate.

Judge Hunt said the court would not make any further comment.

When the judges returned, Mr Gillane said that as he had indicated previously, a separate investigation was taking place "into the circumstances of Supt Fox’s passing and it was felt, having considered the matter very very carefully, that it would be safer to allow the investigation to be completed, from everyone’s perspective, before the trial would proceed."

"In these circumstances I think it’s safer, subject to the court, to adjourn the trial, as a trial, for mention, to a date toward the end of term," he said.

This seemed to be the "safest path forward to make sure no-one is taken by surprise," he said.

The next adjournment came as electronic devices belonging to the late Detective and other Gardaí were investigated and apparently provided relevant information ("a significant amount of material"):

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/inquiry-into-death-of-lead-garda-in-regency-case-to-end-next-month-1.3616732

Senior prosecuting counsel Sean Gillane SC told the non-jury court on Monday that the “IT end of the investigation” was in sight.

One of the devices had been accessed, he said, and it had generated a “fairly significant amount of material”.

The court previously heard that a mobile phone and two USB devices needed to be forensically examined.


Mr Gillane also said further emails have been examined and their analysis were near completion. “In consequence, the expected completion date of the investigation is the middle to the end of October at the latest,” he said.

In reply, Michael O’Higgins SC for Mr Hutch said this was frustrating for his client but the process had to be gone through. “We have to accept that the State is doing it at as quick a pace as it can,” he added.

Mr Justice Tony Hunt, presiding, said the delay was unfortunate for Mr Hutch as he was the one on trial.

The judge asked Mr O’Higgins if “some form of hearing” would be required when this process was completed. “I think so,” replied Mr O’Higgins.

The judge said the court would have two weeks available for the case in December if this was required.

“It has to be given priority over everything else. It may be that nothing comes of it,” said the judge.

Mr O’Higgins said he imagined that the defence will make representations to the DPP when the full report is made available to both parties.

The report was then given first to the prosecution, and then several weeks later to the defence:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/regency-hotel-shooting-trial-to-resume-in-december-1.3692154

The next time the case appeared in court, the trial collapsed on the back of that report:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/patrick-hutch-walks-free-as-regency-hotel-murder-charge-dropped-1.3800167

And both the Gardaí and GSOC opened investigations into exactly what happened:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/regency-hotel-case-garda-and-gsoc-to-investigate-trial-collapse-1.3800874

And finally, the most recent time it was mentioned publicly, GSOC applied for and was granted access to all of the transcripts and evidence pertaining to the trial and its collapse:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/collapsed-hutch-murder-trial-transcripts-to-be-given-to-gsoc-1.4055279

The question now becomes whether the eventual findings will be released publicly or given to the Oireachtas or DOJ with them having the final discretion as to whether they are published.

As I'm sure is obvious, this is one case which absolutely fascinated me as it really has an air of Line of Duty about it, so I've been watching out for any mention of it like a hawk, but it hasn't been raised since the access request by GSOC and the granting of that request by the SCC. Presumably with the current crisis etc, it'll be a while yet before any further developments, but I for one sincerely hope that whatever the conclusion (or inconclusion as the case may be) is, the public are given some clear indication as to what the DPP felt was such a serious discovery that it had no choice but to withdraw the charges. It's definitely not as simple as the death of the investigator meaning that the trial couldn't proceed, something was clearly going on behind the scenes which had already thrown the trial into chaos and given that the trial didn't collapse until after the initial investigation report into the suicide was given to both the prosecution and the defence, it seems clear to me that there's a lot more to this than appears at first glance.

Honestly this particular aspect of the story is the main reason I'm particularly fascinated by the Regency attack more so than any of the other gangland incidents over the last number of years. Whatever happened, piecing together the news reports makes it very interesting for anyone who's into mystery stories!

I heard a very simple reason why it all fell through, no big conspiracy I'm afraid, and then what happened with Fox - I feel funny posting about the man after he took his own life.

1968

Dante7 wrote: »

Shooting in Belfast. Locals saying he is dead.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1262159933518348289?s=19

No. 113 Lenadoon Ave. Man in his late 50s apparently.

https://twitter.com/MalMccann/status/1262297805441376257

Mago MVP

Alderbuck wrote: »

I heard a very simple reason why it all fell through, no big conspiracy I'm afraid, and then what happened with Fox - I feel funny posting about the man after he took his own life.

Go on

Ash.J.Williams

Mtk getting ridiculed online but will it have an affect?

Haladmirer

There is no way in hell that cop killed himself because of just those emails about Hutch's identify
Went much deeper than that

Ash.J.Williams

Haladmirer wrote: »

There is no way in hell that cop killed himself because of just those emails about Hutch's identify
Went much deeper than that

was it the fact that everyone on the leaked regency list was whacked after ?

Justanoseygit

I always thought that it was strange to send ‘Lady Pat‘, armed with a gun, into the Regency first, since he/she made such a mess of the earlier attempt that ended up with Jamie Moore being shot.
I can’t be the only one who thinks that the way ‘Our Dan’s’ PR machine is rolling just now, it’s surely only a matter of time, before he claims to have single handedly, created the worlds first COVID-19 vaccine.

Mago MVP

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

was it the fact that everyone on the leaked regency list was whacked after ?

They weren’t

Mago MVP

I wonder who picked the actor to play Daniel haha he was about 5 stone lighter than the guy he was playing - vain ba5tard haha

Mago MVP

Where is Tango 1 these days?

Haladmirer

DK will never be done
With money it's easy to live out of shot

Haladmirer

Funny you should ask today
Tangos birthday today

Omackeral

Mago MVP wrote: »

Where is Tango 1 these days?

Often see him driving around in a Golf in D12

MrSanchez

Another thing I found strange in the documentary was saying the 6 getaway drivers used their own cars so Gardai knew their identity straight away meaning so did the kinahans

Mago MVP

MrSanchez wrote: »

Another thing I found strange in the documentary was saying the 6 getaway drivers used their own cars so Gardai knew their identity straight away meaning so did the kinahans

That’s probably to throw viewers off the fact that a garda leaked the names to jaws

Mago MVP

Omackeral wrote: »

Often see him driving around in a Golf in D12

Is he not vulnerable now the Byrne’s have gone?
He can’t have that many allies knocking around now as they’re mainly abroad or in prison

Omackeral

Mago MVP wrote: »

Is he not vulnerable now the Byrne’s have gone?
He can’t have that many allies knocking around now as they’re mainly abroad or in prison

He’s still in the heartland of Byrne territory so probably safe enough. You’d see Lee Byrne around quite a bit too and they’re actually nearly around the same shade of mahogany at this stage so if they wanted to be laying low, they stick out a mile.

John_D3

Did Gareth have much involvement to get whacked? Gars name doesn’t be mentioned much or was it just his name and easy target like Derek that was the cause.

Also someone posted about Patrick and Jamie moore, was Patrick suspected in this one?

sugarman20

Mago MVP wrote: »

Is he not vulnerable now the Byrne’s have gone?

:pac: He's in a safe place.

The enlightened one

Haladmirer wrote: »

DK will never be done
With money it's easy to live out of shot

Guys who thought they were safe have been whacked in Dubai before, but yeah, getting DK will not be easy. They would have to get someone into MTK. Getting them out would be high on impossible too. It would have to be the mother of all inside jobs.

The Monks best hope of getting Daniel is coronavirus!

Mago MVP

Why did hatchet and his brother get killed?
They said the bro was skimming I know but what about the older one
Also why was his lad still boxing under MTK? Surely people must have told him who killed his dad?
It’s proper fooked up & hard to follow

SEPT 23 1989

the documentary will be a topic of discussion on todays Liveline

hatrickpatrick

Mago MVP wrote: »

That’s probably to throw viewers off the fact that a garda leaked the names to jaws

Where did this rumour come from and is there anything behind it do you think? People talk about how the Byrnes must have been tipped off given how quickly they took revenge, but it always seemed to me that it was blatantly obvious that the Hutches were behind the Regency from the moment it happened and that they didn't exactly need a list of names from the Gardaí in order to know who to go after. I mean people were talking about the potential for a Hutch-led revenge hit at the boxing match for weeks before it actually happened, so the fact that they started targeting members of the Hutch family immediately afterwards doesn't say much either way about someone passing them names?

Ash.J.Williams

Justanoseygit wrote: »

The ‘documentary’ was exactly as most folk thought it was going to be.
The most obvious things that stood out for me were
- the guy cast as ‘Handsome Dan’ arriving at the venue on his own
- the ‘Daniel was worried that the boxing fans and their families, there to enjoy themselves, were now at risk’
- the almost perfect attention to detail recreating the Regency Hotel reception
and
- the guy turning back to the van, having an uncanny resemblance to the Tac 2 suspect
That video wasn’t cheap to put together, and was professionally made,and any respect
that the Scarcity guy had gained, for his own videos that he has put up, appears to have
disappeared down the drain.

scarecity guy starting to feel the heat today, already backtracking saying there was no money involved and he "was just sent "the video