Gangland Shootings part 3 - Read OP before posting - updated 27/12/23

Paul_Crosby

Deco Barry wrote: »

What are the chances they were off their heads at that hour of the morning though

You'd have to be off your head or just crazy/stupid to be driving around with that **** now even the small time drug dealers are laying low with the empty roads and high police presence

Paul_Crosby

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

I know (or should I say heard from a reliable source) that the guy who stiffed Murphy pulled off another pretty big hit but I forget who that was

Aye Jim Craig was suspected because he had forged links with the INLA and had set up other loyalists he saw as a threat, he set up Shankill UDA man William "Bucky" McCullough, who got shot by INLA hitman and future IPLO member "Bronco" Downey, Bronco once walked out of the Hatfield bar minutes before two Provos came in with AKs to kill him during the "Night of the Long Knives" on Halloween when the Provos purged the IPLO from existence

William McCulloughs son Alan was one of the lads who fled with Johnny Adair but he shot up Adairs safehouse in Bolton and was told he could come back, Adairs former mate Mo Courtney and Ihab Shoukri murdered him and did some time for it

When the UDA found out Craig was playing both sides they asked him down to the Bunch of Grapes bar and tortured him to death (they called it getting "romper roomed", after the kids TV show)

I'm not certain if Craig set him up though I would say it was probably the UVF higher ups, definately a suspect however

I'm just an observer here, no info, but have read a lot of material about The Troubles. I'm not disputing you or your info or experience, but having read about the murder of Jim Craig before I'm surprised to read the above account.

The 'official' accounts I have read give him a far quicker death - He was summoned to the meeting, where 2 lads in ski masks came in with autos, opened fire and killed him instantly, one bystander also got killed and a few others wounded.

A fella called Geordie Legge was tortured and murdered there in 2001, but this is the first time I've read that account about Craig's death.

Edit: Lol, I'm way late with this.

Paul_Crosby

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

Ah it was UDA man Geordie Legge they tortured there, my mistake, they've probably tortured about 50 people in that bar easy mistake to make

Yep, it sounds like it was quite the house of horrors.

dd973

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

John McMichael who Craig set up was a rare beast in the UDA in that he actually wanted to find some reconcilliation between the two communities, even penned an acclaimed paper called "Beyond the Religious Divide: The future of Northern Ireland" so of course Special Branch let him go to the wall, they didn't need any peace makers making trouble

The late David Irvine was an intelligent working class Loyalist, rare enough in itself, most of them are special school material. Once saw him interviewed where he said 'We've more in common with them on the other side of that peace wall than we have with the English, Welsh and Scots'

another time he said 'Why do we hate people we don't know or mix with, is that normal?'

He was still unremittingly Unionist in outlook however he was prepared to question things and become open to dialogue. I'm pretty sure the sort of rabble rousing militant Troubles era Loyalism is slowly ebbing away although their criminal element remains, people like Dee Stitt and Jamie Bryson aren't really the same as what went before when things were grim.

Paul_Crosby

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm just an observer here, no info, but have read a lot of material about The Troubles. I'm not disputing you or your info or experience, but having read about the murder of Jim Craig before I'm surprised to read the above account.

The 'official' accounts I have read give him a far quicker death - He was summoned to the meeting, where 2 lads in ski masks came in with autos, opened fire and killed him instantly, one bystander also got killed and a few others wounded.

A fella called Geordie Legge was tortured and murdered there in 2001, but this is the first time I've read that account about Craig's death.

Edit: Lol, I'm way late with this.

Aye mate I got him and Legge confused, should have double checked before speaking, I think just because the UDA were fond of a good "romper rooming" of their victims in their bars I had it in my head Craig went that way because of his "treason", **** knows how many people they tortured in that place over the years

Paul_Crosby

dd973 wrote: »

The late David Irvine was an intelligent working class Loyalist, rare enough in itself, most of them are special school material. Once saw him interviewed where he said 'We've more in common with them on the other side of that peace wall than we have with the English, Welsh and Scots'

another time he said 'Why do we hate people we don't know or mix with, is that normal?'

He was still unremittingly Unionist in outlook however he was prepared to question things and become open to dialogue. I'm pretty sure the sort of rabble rousing militant Troubles era Loyalism is slowly ebbing away although their criminal element remains, people like Dee Stitt and Jamie Bryson aren't really the same as what went before when things were grim.

Absolutely mate, a lot of nationalists like myself who aren't dyed-in-the-wool morons have respect for Irvine, he said when he first went to prison Gusty Spence asked him "What are you fighting for?" and he said he didn't have a clear answer

Paul_Crosby

Don't mean to go on about days gone by either but things are pretty quiet on the info front since Lawlor got popped

adamandeve

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

I know (or should I say heard from a reliable source) that the guy who stiffed Murphy pulled off another pretty big hit but I forget who that was

Aye Jim Craig was suspected because he had forged links with the INLA and had set up other loyalists he saw as a threat, he set up Shankill UDA man William "Bucky" McCullough, who got shot by INLA hitman and future IPLO member "Bronco" Downey, Bronco once walked out of the Hatfield bar minutes before two Provos came in with AKs to kill him during the "Night of the Long Knives" on Halloween when the Provos purged the IPLO from existence

William McCulloughs son Alan was one of the lads who fled with Johnny Adair but he shot up Adairs safehouse in Bolton and was told he could come back, Adairs former mate Mo Courtney and Ihab Shoukri murdered him and did some time for it

When the UDA found out Craig was playing both sides they asked him down to the Bunch of Grapes bar and tortured him to death (they called it getting "romper roomed", after the kids TV show)

I'm not certain if Craig set him up though I would say it was probably the UVF higher ups, definately a suspect however[/quote

All smoke and mirrors as they say so anything was possible,on the day Murphy was released his men had a welcome home party in their drinking club,there was a guy in the bar who Murphy didn't like the look of he beat him near to death then dragged him out the back and drove his car back and forth over the man until he was dead.Then went inside and carried on drinking,this on his first day out of prison he went on a killing spree again and I suppose needed to be stopped even by his own one evil cxxt! Yeah agree with your above post Geordie legg then got stiffed/tortured to death in the bunch of grapes also..nice pub! Craig's name was in the frame for John McMichael also

adamandeve

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

I know (or should I say heard from a reliable source) that the guy who stiffed Murphy pulled off another pretty big hit but I forget who that was

Aye Jim Craig was suspected because he had forged links with the INLA and had set up other loyalists he saw as a threat, he set up Shankill UDA man William "Bucky" McCullough, who got shot by INLA hitman and future IPLO member "Bronco" Downey, Bronco once walked out of the Hatfield bar minutes before two Provos came in with AKs to kill him during the "Night of the Long Knives" on Halloween when the Provos purged the IPLO from existence

William McCulloughs son Alan was one of the lads who fled with Johnny Adair but he shot up Adairs safehouse in Bolton and was told he could come back, Adairs former mate Mo Courtney and Ihab Shoukri murdered him and did some time for it

When the UDA found out Craig was playing both sides they asked him down to the Bunch of Grapes bar and tortured him to death (they called it getting "romper roomed", after the kids TV show)

I'm not certain if Craig set him up though I would say it was probably the UVF higher ups, definately a suspect however[/quote

All smoke and mirrors as they say so anything was possible,on the day Murphy was released his men had a welcome home party in their drinking club,there was a guy in the bar who Murphy didn't like the look of he beat him near to death then dragged him out the back and drove his car back and forth over the man until he was dead.Then went inside and carried on drinking,this on his first day out of prison he went on a killing spree again and I suppose needed to be stopped even by his own one evil cxxt! Yeah agree with your above post Geordie legg then got stiffed/tortured to death in the bunch of grapes also..nice pub! Craig's name was in the frame for John McMichael also

Paul_Crosby

Paul_Crosby wrote: »

Aye mate I got him and Legge confused, should have double checked before speaking, I think just because the UDA were fond of a good "romper rooming" of their victims in their bars I had it in my head Craig went that way because of his "treason", **** knows how many people they tortured in that place over the years

The Troubles never fail to shock me, such barbarity all over. Mind you, some of the sh1t I'm reading in here about our current gang wars and brutality in the South is an eye-opener.

I would have assumed too that "romper rooming" would be the prime choice of disposal for a traitor like Craig. Wonder did they have too much respect for him...hardly...or just wanted him dead ASAP and not to miss their chance by drawing it out.

John_Gill

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I know we're not dealing with the committee of Mensa or anything but he's surely not stupid enough to name the shooter in a video.

The CP video.
He says "fair play to ya"
It could be Dee, Lee, Liam.
It's not clear as day. No way he's gonna name the shooter.
To me it sounds like fair play to ya Dee

smelly sock

OOnegative wrote: »

You’ll never see in a lifetime the amount of money Jack makes in one week

Good mates with fatpuss too i believe.

Anon165

John_Gill wrote: »

The CP video.
He says "fair play to ya"
It could be Dee, Lee, Liam.
It's not clear as day. No way he's gonna name the shooter.
To me it sounds like fair play to ya Dee

I can see how it could be Liam, YouTube auto captions reckons it says, "fair play today".

It does sounds like it starts with an L.

armaghlad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would have assumed too that "romper rooming" would be the prime choice of disposal for a traitor like Craig. Wonder did they have too much respect for him...hardly...or just wanted him dead ASAP and not to miss their chance by drawing it out.

Romper rooms were used for anyone as far as I can tell. There’s one that always sticks in my mind, early 90s a young women tortured off the Donegall road in south Belfast. Her crime? Being mistaken for a catholic. Beaten, tortured, shot in the head and left in a wheelie bin. The provos get a lot of hate on boards but they never intentionally targeted innocent Protestants and mutilated and murdered them with the same venomous hatred that loyalists did.

armaghlad

armaghlad wrote: »

Romper rooms were used for anyone as far as I can tell. There’s one that always sticks in my mind, early 90s a young women tortured off the Donegall road in south Belfast. Her crime? Being mistaken for a catholic. Beaten, tortured, shot in the head and left in a wheelie bin. The provos get a lot of hate on boards but they never intentionally targeted innocent Protestants and mutilated and murdered them with the same venomous hatred that loyalists did.

No doubt about it. Did the Provos have an equivalent of the Shankill Butchers in their outfit?

Anon165

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No doubt about it. Did the Provos have an equivalent of the Shankill Butchers in their outfit?

The nutting squad, sort of similar.

Where does aidy mulholland fit into all this your mans house it was at? And are yous saying liams the suspected shooter Cos he owed the money or did he set it up?
And this is old news from few days ago but I didn’t post it people were posting it big had so much money why did he do tiger kidnappings. He made €600,000 ina night how many months would it take him to make that with drugs , while also having a way higher chance of trouble with someone as he’s dealing with other criminals not innocent people

Anon165

Fedcba321 wrote: »

Where does aidy mulholland fit into all this your mans house it was at? Is liam the suspected shooter Cos he owed the money or did he set it up?
And this is old news from few days ago but I didn’t post it people were posting it big had so much money why did he do tiger kidnappings. He made €600,000 ina night how many months would it take him to make that with drugs , while also having a way higher chance of trouble with someone as he’s dealing with other criminals not innocent people

I'm guessing aidy mulholland is misinformation to put people off the scent.

As for Big, I think he's got his fingers in a lot of pies including legitimate businesses, well funded by illegitimate money, must have looked too good to pass.

John_Gill

Anon165 wrote: »

I can see how it could be Liam, YouTube auto captions reckons it says, "fair play today".

It does sounds like it starts with an L.

Wouldn't that mean it could also be to-dee.
Doubt it's anything.
People looking for any clue to find something new.
On another note.
Did you see in all the comment sections on any video related to KMW. I.E. The Robbie getting jumped vid, the Paul Crosby phone call, the young lad getting confronted in the shop, Robbie giving out the Shirts to the kids.There was a poster in the comments that's started posting about a month or so before Robbie got Clipped. This chap was Calling out Robbie and telling a few personal things about how he knows Robbie and that he was Coming for RL. This fella seemed to be an ex or active paramilitary type fella.
And said Knock knock watch out for the black and tans Robbie. Some mad claims. This is all before the killing. Then afterwards he was commenting on the celebration videos. Saying you didn't see that did ya. Then mentioned exactly how he was executed.
2 in the head, chest and one up the arse.
This info wasn't released till well after.
Makes you think how mad it would be If this chap was the killer. Also said PC is next.

Jimmy McGill

Anon165 wrote: »

The nutting squad, sort of similar.

Headed up by another psychopath Freddie Scappaticci (Steak knife) who was given licence to kill by the british because he was their top informer

Danzy

The nutting squad, as you say, were nothing like the Shankill Butchers, they were the military police, handling informers etc. Not all turned out to be informers, the head if it became a British agent himself.

In that way

Like everything in the long conflict, it was complex and became twisted and full of double crosses.

Banana Republic.

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

He murdered someone and brought heat to the area, best murder him and bring heat to the area to show how against the practice we are.

Out of the two scenarios I think that one is the most likely, the Anti Mc Gang have lost the best hitman they could wish to have and by all accounts the lads needed to come back from Spain as they need money. So I don’t see them striking back but stranger things have happened in this feud.

Thesiger

Fedcba321 wrote: »

Where does aidy mulholland fit into all this your mans house it was at? And are yous saying liams the suspected shooter Cos he owed the money or did he set it up?
And this is old news from few days ago but I didn’t post it people were posting it big had so much money why did he do tiger kidnappings. He made €600,000 ina night how many months would it take him to make that with drugs , while also having a way higher chance of trouble with someone as he’s dealing with other criminals not innocent people

Isn’t his surname Holland?

Dwarf.Shortage

I have it on good authority
that the Dundons aren't happy
with what happened the 50k
and they want paying again because
it has to have been a set up
OM and Neily are bricking it
There'll be WhatsApp videos about it very soon

I am afraid under the rules of journalism I cannot reveal my source.

Sultan of Bling

Paul_Crosby wrote:

John McMichael who Craig set up was a rare beast in the UDA in that he actually wanted to find some reconcilliation between the two communities, even penned an acclaimed paper called "Beyond the Religious Divide: The future of Northern Ireland" so of course Special Branch let him go to the wall, they didn't need any peace makers making trouble

Was he related to Gary McMichael?

Jimmy McGill

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I have it on good authority
that the Dundons aren't happy
with what happened the 50k
and they want paying again because
it has to have been a set up
OM and Neily are bricking it
There'll be WhatsApp videos about it very soon

I am afraid under the rules of journalism I cannot reveal my source.

Ok
we
believe
you

Donald Trump

Anon165 wrote: »

The nutting squad, sort of similar.

They'll do fookin' nuttin'

rodmn2377

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I have it on good authority
that the Dundons aren't happy
with what happened the 50k
and they want paying again because
it has to have been a set up
OM and Neily are bricking it
There'll be WhatsApp videos about it very soon

I am afraid under the rules of journalism I cannot reveal my source.

I really cant see Neily boy ****ting it over a spent force like the Dundons. I couldn't see him and McGuire being too worried.. the best of the dundons are locked up

PlatoOPlomo

I see being reported today RL had been living in Belfast for over a month collecting drug debts before being he was shot. Was in North Armagh collectin money also. Drinkin in cathedal quarter and eating in a few restaurants. He must've thought he was invincible Nd noone would recognise him?

Ciro Di Marzio

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I have it on good authority
that the Dundons aren't happy
with what happened the 50k
and they want paying again because
it has to have been a set up
OM and Neily are bricking it
There'll be WhatsApp videos about it very soon

I am afraid under the rules of journalism I cannot reveal my source.

Well the papers have been reporting this all week in fairness ...