Is this the end of Debenhams?

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evosteo wrote: »

Feel so sorry for the staff. Similar to clerys some would have worked there 20+ years if not alot longer.

Pretty much told on an email this morning that the the shutters were staying down, thanks for your service and best of luck evening after saying thta the UK operations were going into administration and the irish arm was unaffected.

I knew myself they were in trouble but I feel they have used this crisis as a perfect oportunity to burn their staff too who will now only be entitled to statutory rednudancy.

Strange that they have anounced the store closures but in another breath mention they are still trading online. debenhams.ie????

still in existance/gone out of existance?

Strange one

Everything will be posted from their warehouse

Gal2glam

evosteo wrote: »

Feel so sorry for the staff. Similar to clerys some would have worked there 20+ years if not alot longer.

Pretty much told on an email this morning that the the shutters were staying down, thanks for your service and best of luck evening after saying thta the UK operations were going into administration and the irish arm was unaffected.

I knew myself they were in trouble but I feel they have used this crisis as a perfect oportunity to burn their staff too who will now only be entitled to statutory rednudancy.

Strange that they have anounced the store closures but in another breath mention they are still trading online. debenhams.ie????

still in existance/gone out of existance?

Strange one

The liquidator will still have to sell as much of the stock off as possible so it makes sense to leave people shop online if they want. Especially because they won’t be able to have an in store liquidation sale for the foreseeable future.

RGARDINR

Is the stock still in their stores in Ireland?

newuser99999

RGARDINR wrote: »

Is the stock still in their stores in Ireland?

The liquidator most likely has it in off site storage.

GerardKeating

RGARDINR wrote: »

Is the stock still in their stores in Ireland?

It was in Galway the other day.

RGARDINR

GerardKeating wrote: »

It was in Galway the other day.

Hopefully it works out for staff now with the possible agreement. There best off accepting it as Debenhams UK could be gone in the next few weeks.

ongarboy

According to the news, most workers are not accepting the additional offer being proposed as it just means a paltry few hundred Euro for the majority.

ongarboy

ongarboy wrote: »

According to the news, most workers are not accepting the additional offer being proposed as it just means a paltry few hundred Euro for the majority.

Can they get the dole while on strike? They are foolish to reject the offer as Debenhams seem st be in trouble in the Uk. They will get their statutory payment anyway.

I see they’ve escalated their protest. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40044932.html
Do they think that they’ll draw blood from a stone? They’ll still get their statutory payment. The offer on the table would have given some over €1,000 extra. Yet, they’re hell bent on making themselves unemployable by their actions.

ziedth

Deleted User wrote: »

I see they’ve escalated their protest. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40044932.html
Do they think that they’ll draw blood from a stone? They’ll still get their statutory payment. The offer on the table would have given some over €1,000 extra. Yet, they’re hell bent on making themselves unemployable by their actions.

To be fair I read that quite a few of the staff have service carried over from Roaches Stores which gives them between 20-30 years service...... if they are looking for 4 weeks per year (Again not a crazy amount) That is allot more than €1k extra....... Likes of Store Managers you could be talking €20k+ in the difference

punisher5112

1 days wages to most is an absolute insult.

Its disgraceful what is allowed and you will find KPMG aren't doing this for buttons either.

They'll be getting nice payout from it.

ziedth

ziedth wrote: »

To be fair I read that quite a few of the staff have service carried over from Roaches Stores which gives them between 20-30 years service...... if they are looking for 4 weeks per year (Again not a crazy amount) That is allot more than €1k extra....... Likes of Store Managers you could be talking €20k+ in the difference

Their Roche’s Stores time doesn’t enter into the equation. Different employers. They’re already getting the statutory 2 weeks. The figure of €1k extra was just a simple division. €1,000,000/1,000.
Debenhams in the Uk are in trouble too. It might be one days wages for a few, but not for most.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Their Roche’s Stores time doesn’t enter into the equation. Different employers. They’re already getting the statutory 2 weeks. The figure of €1k extra was just a simple division. €1,000,000/1,000.
Debenhams in the Uk are in trouble too. It might be one days wages for a few, but not for most.

The Roches time does count - TUPE.

Or else a company trying to slash a redundancy bill would just "sell" to a new holdingco owned by a different part of its group.


The stock that they think has value to hold as ransom against the liquidators is now effectively valueless - its Spring/Summer 2020 + whatever old stuff was in the stores. Its fit to be sold to TK Maxx at maybe 5% of ticket price if even; so take whatever millions they claim there is in stock and divide it by 20.

RGARDINR

L1011 wrote: »

The Roches time does count - TUPE.

Or else a company trying to slash a redundancy bill would just "sell" to a new holdingco owned by a different part of its group.


The stock that they think has value to hold as ransom against the liquidators is now effectively valueless - its Spring/Summer 2020 + whatever old stuff was in the stores. Its fit to be sold to TK Maxx at maybe 5% of ticket price if even; so take whatever millions they claim there is in stock and divide it by 20.

I understand there frustration but they should of taken the offer. Debenhams UK might be gone come the end of this month, even a few hundred extra is better then zero at the end of the day. Was up in the Newry store about 2 wks ago. They definitely could do with some stock up there lots or space between racks up there and more or less zero toys.

L1011

I think that was the best offer they're going to get; they're on a hiding to nothing now that the stock is dated and worthless. Mandate are very good at valiant strikes that get nowhere.

Debenhams UK are out of the picture now though; its all KPMG. That applies both to the offer and to the stock - Debenhams UK don't own it.

RGARDINR

Sadly I think you ate right they should of taken the money. They might of sold a lot of stock and made another million or 2 for the staff to divide up.

Trouble is that the workers are listening to eegits like Paul Murphy who’s telling them that the liquidators aren’t giving them what they’re entitled to. They are only entitled to 2 weeks per year’s service, once they’ve been employed 2 years. That’s what they’re getting. There are others, suppliers, etc., who have a bigger claim on any monies available. Debenhams have been in trouble for decades. The sinking ship should have been abandoned by the workers before now.

RGARDINR

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Trouble is that the workers are listening to eegits like Paul Murphy who’s telling them that the liquidators aren’t giving them what they’re entitled to. They are only entitled to 2 weeks per year’s service, once they’ve been employed 2 years. That’s what they’re getting. There are others, suppliers, etc., who have a bigger claim on any monies available. Debenhams have been in trouble for decades. The sinking ship should have been abandoned by the workers before now.

I do feel for staff but they should of jumped on this offer but hopefully we're wrong and KPMG increase the million to even 2 or 3 million.

RGARDINR

RGARDINR wrote: »

I do feel for staff but they should of jumped on this offer but hopefully we're wrong and KPMG increase the million to even 2 or 3 million.

KPMG don’t have to do any more. The staff are getting statutory payment. That’s all they’re entitled to. The business is gone. No point in flogging a dead horse. They’re doing themselves more harm than good in continuing their militant stance and making themselves unemployable.

RGARDINR

[Deleted User] wrote: »

KPMG don’t have to do any more. The staff are getting statutory payment. That’s all they’re entitled to. The business is gone. No point in flogging a dead horse. They’re doing themselves more harm than good in continuing their militant stance and making themselves unemployable.

Your probably right but will see. I wonder what 2 stores they would of opened to sell the merchandise. Henry St and one in Cork maybe or the Blanchardstown one as footfall in town is lower so shopping centre might have been better. Say would of been a good sale as well in the store if they had of opened the 2 stores up to sell the merchandise.

trixi001

Deleted User wrote: »

KPMG don’t have to do any more. The staff are getting statutory payment. That’s all they’re entitled to. The business is gone. No point in flogging a dead horse. They’re doing themselves more harm than good in continuing their militant stance and making themselves unemployable.

I doubt KPMG are allowed to do anymore

KPMG have a duty to pay the creditors as much as they possibly can - not even sure how they were allowed to offer €1m - perhaps under the argument, that paying it means they can get the stock and get on with the liquidation..thus making some money for the creditors.

At the end of the day, Debenhams is in liqudation - the liquidators can't just give assets away, the government can't just write off Debenhams debt (think of the precedent it would set...)

The only hope Debenhams have of getting the money is if Debenhams UK (as the parent company) pays up

RGARDINR

trixi001 wrote: »

I doubt KPMG are allowed to do anymore

KPMG have a duty to pay the creditors as much as they possibly can - not even sure how they were allowed to offer €1m - perhaps under the argument, that paying it means they can get the stock and get on with the liquidation..thus making some money for the creditors.

At the end of the day, Debenhams is in liqudation - the liquidators can't just give assets away, the government can't just write off Debenhams debt (think of the precedent it would set...)

The only hope Debenhams have of getting the money is if Debenhams UK (as the parent company) pays up

That's why I think the staff should of taken it. They got shafted big time but they won't get what they are looking for. I do have sympathy for them I really do but they should of took the money. Sold stock got 33% on that for staff they might of sold a nice amount in the 2 shops. Now they will most likely get nothing and something is better then nothing.

RGARDINR

RGARDINR wrote: »

That's why I think the staff should of taken it. They got shafted big time but they won't get what they are looking for. I do have sympathy for them I really do but they should of took the money. Sold stock got 33% on that for staff they might of sold a nice amount in the 2 shops. Now they will most likely get nothing and something is better then nothing.

I wonder what they’re living on as they cannot claim unemployment benefit/assistance while on strike.

C3PO

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder what they’re living on as they cannot claim unemployment benefit/assistance while on strike.

Are you sure that they have not all been laid off?

C3PO

C3PO wrote: »

Are you sure that they have not all been laid off?

Yes. All laid off with statutory redundancy. Some have found alternative employment, but some small number reckon that they’re entitled to more, so are on strike, which prohibits them claiming unemployment welfare payments.
Court case coming up in the week.

StackSteevens

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes. All laid off with statutory redundancy. Some have found alternative employment, but some small number reckon that they’re entitled to more, so are on strike, which prohibits them claiming unemployment welfare payments.
Court case coming up in the week.

For me the real tragedy is that, misled by cyncial fraudsters like Paul Murphy - someone who will never face life on the dole - the workers' actions have probably ensured that they'll never find employment in the retail sector for the rest of their working lives.

The second tragedy is that they don't seem smart enough to realise that they've being misled and used for political purposes.

StackSteevens

StackSteevens wrote: »

For me the real tragedy is that, misled by cyncial fraudsters like Paul Murphy - someone who will never face life on the dole - the workers' actions have probably ensured that they'll never find employment in the retail sector for the rest of their working lives.

The second tragedy is that they don't seem smart enough to realise that they've being misled and used for political purposes.

Murphy and his ilk have a lot to answer for. Reading his social media posts, you’d think that the strikers were left high and dry. Not so. They got their redundancy, wages owed and holiday pay.

As you rightly say, they’re only making themselves unemployable by their actions but are too stupid to see it. The stock they claim to be guarding is now out of date and worthless.

StackSteevens

Deleted User wrote: »

Murphy and his ilk have a lot to answer for. Reading his social media posts, you’d think that the strikers were left high and dry. Not so. They got their redundancy, wages owed and holiday pay.

As you rightly say, they’re only making themselves unemployable by their actions but are too stupid to see it. The stock they claim to be guarding is now out of date and worthless.

Back in the day, Charlie Haughey had a way of handling difficult strikes - using taxpayers' money, naturally!

In the early 1980's a motor factory in Santry (CJH's constituency) was in the process of being closed down so there was a bitter strike and the workers occupied the factory (it's now the back of Santry Garda Station).

Haughey was under huge pressure from the workers and the Unions and he decided that the best solution would be to import all of the strikers into the civil service! Which he did - and they all lived happily ever after (and never worked again!)

I bet Meehawl wishes that he could pull the same stroke!

L1011

Its deeply questionable whether opening stores to sell off the stock would cover costs with reduced footfall these days. The stock wasn't selling to begin with - Debenhams had not kept up with fashion and that's a major reason they were in trouble to begin with - and is now even further out of date.


The comparisons that some of them are making to Clerys are not valid. Clerys was a sort-of viable business, wasn't stuck in a death spiral and the new owner had lots and lots of cash. They got money in the end due to that.

RGARDINR

If they eventually get the stock out where exactly do they sell it? I mean say for example all kids clothes or all the toys are they just shipped off somewhere in a sold lot or do people get a chance to buy same?