Dublin - Significant reduction in rents coming?

selassie

Ozark707 wrote: »

Looks like FF weren't going to stand for 8% increases.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0602/1225588-housing-dail/

Mary Lou also making a great point about how high rents make it harder to attract workers to the capital.

Why would a highly skilled worker choose Dublin over London if they were offered 70k pounds there vs 90k euros here? £4,108 take home in London(€4,773) vs € 4,726 take home in Dublin(£4,065).

yagan

selassie wrote: »

Mary Lou also making a great point about how high rents make it harder to attract workers to the capital.

Why would a highly skilled worker choose Dublin over London if they were offered 70k pounds there vs 90k euros here? £4,108 take home in London(€4,773) vs € 4,726 take home in Dublin(£4,065).

Have you ever paid council taxes and charges in England? It can really eat into your income if you're in one of the higher charging burroughs.

You do ge the NHS because of it, but then again I was able to get a doctors appointment much quicker in Ireland than at an NHS clinic.

C14N

selassie wrote: »

Mary Lou also making a great point about how high rents make it harder to attract workers to the capital.

Why would a highly skilled worker choose Dublin over London if they were offered 70k pounds there vs 90k euros here? £4,108 take home in London(€4,773) vs € 4,726 take home in Dublin(£4,065).

Realistically, you also would be unlikely to get €90k if you got £70k in the UK for the same job. However, it's not a great comparison because London's rental market is also very expensive, and most indications are that London is slightly higher for cost-of-living in general compared to Dublin.

Phat Cat

C14N wrote: »

Realistically, you also would be unlikely to get €90k if you got £70k in the UK for the same job. However, it's not a great comparison because London's rental market is also very expensive, and most indications are that London is slightly higher for cost-of-living in general compared to Dublin.

Yeah but London is pretty much a megacity much like New York and Paris, so a high cost of living coupled with high rents is useally offset with high salaries and excellent transport and services.

Dublin totally pales in comparison to London, yet the cost of living and rent is catching up without having the higher salaries, transport, services, amenities, etc to balance it out.

If you compare Dublin to a similar sized EU cities like Vienna or Copenhagen it looks even worse. Both those cities have excellent infrastructure, public and health services plus better salaries and much cheaper rents.

JimmyVik

Was just reading about the new property tax bands there.
Wait til the landlords get a load their new level of property tax that they cant offset.
So they will be passing on double that, to break even to the renter.
Renters can say thanks to FFG and the greens for that one.

yagan

JimmyVik wrote: »

Was just reading about the new property tax bands there.
Wait til the landlords get a load their new level of property tax that they cant offset.
So they will be passing on double that, to break even to the renter.
Renters can say thanks to FFG and the greens for that one.

They can try to pass it on, but with at some stage all the current construction will tip the balance into units chasing renters.

Although we don't have any way to verify it there's plenty of observations supporting the view that's there's plenty of supply being kept vacant and free months off 12 months contracts is certainly an indicator of venders chasing tenants.

Still way too early guess if that's just a temporary blip.

C14N

JimmyVik wrote: »

Was just reading about the new property tax bands there.
Wait til the landlords get a load their new level of property tax that they cant offset.
So they will be passing on double that, to break even to the renter.
Renters can say thanks to FFG and the greens for that one.

Unless your rented property is valued in the top 33%, it likely won't affect you at all, and for most of the ones it does affect, it translates to an extra €90 per year, or about €7.50 per month. Even if it does, it'll be constrained by the RPZ rules, and beyond that by the free market. It's not a tax that tends to affect renters all that much.

JimmyVik

yagan wrote: »

They can try to pass it on, but with at some stage all the current construction will tip the balance into units chasing renters.

Although we don't have any way to verify it there's plenty of observations supporting the view that's there's plenty of supply being kept vacant and free months off 12 months contracts is certainly an indicator of venders chasing tenants.

Still way too early guess if that's just a temporary blip.

I think thats wishful thinking by most people.
Maybe thats vendors in €3.5k apartments that might need to chase tenants, but in the lower price ranges i dont think so.

Anyone ive spoken to who is looking to rent is doing the chasing.
I was that way myself for a while.

Landlords will easily pass that on.

JimmyVik

C14N wrote: »

Unless your rented property is valued in the top 33%, it likely won't affect you at all, and for most of the ones it does affect, it translates to an extra €90 per year, or about €7.50 per month. Even if it does, it'll be constrained by the RPZ rules, and beyond that by the free market. It's not a tax that tends to affect renters all that much.

I read earlier about an apartment jumping from band 1 to band 3.
So thats an increase and if it has to be doubled to break even after tax thats even worse.
It does mean I guess that any landlords increasing their rent this year will most likely not see any increased income from them as it all goes to the government.

L1011

yagan wrote: »

Have you ever paid council taxes and charges in England? It can really eat into your income if you're in one of the higher charging burroughs.

You do ge the NHS because of it, but then again I was able to get a doctors appointment much quicker in Ireland than at an NHS clinic.

NHS is funded from central taxation.

Local taxation in the UK pays for schools (including books), bins (service can be anything from excellent to awful - but there's quite a lot less fly tipping due to this), some public transit subsidies amongst a mix of things that are either central taxation or paid directly by the consumer here.

C14N

JimmyVik wrote: »

I read earlier about an apartment jumping from band 1 to band 3.
So thats an increase and if it has to be doubled to break even after tax thats even worse.
It does mean I guess that any landlords increasing their rent this year will most likely not see any increased income from them as it all goes to the government.

Right, so this is one of the exceptions, and is still only going up by €225 per annum, or €18.75 per month. You'd be doing well not to have your landlord raise rents on a €350k apartment by this amount anyway. If fully expect my rent will increase by far more than this regardless.

Blut2

C14N wrote: »

Right, so this is one of the exceptions, and is still only going up by €225 per annum, or €18.75 per month. You'd be doing well not to have your landlord raise rents on a €350k apartment by this amount anyway. If fully expect my rent will increase by far more than this regardless.

Its also very unlikely that someone in a €350k apartment would be renting it by themselves. So that €18.75 a month increase would likely be split between two or even three people. So even in this rare exception case, and even if the entire cost was passed along to the tenant, you'd be looking at under a tenner a month per person increase.

yagan

L1011 wrote: »

NHS is funded from central taxation.

Local taxation in the UK pays for schools (including books), bins (service can be anything from excellent to awful - but there's quite a lot less fly tipping due to this), some public transit subsidies amongst a mix of things that are either central taxation or paid directly by the consumer here.

I must be mixing it up with why people move postcodes to avail of NHS services that some districts fund but others don't.

I remember someone telling me they moved to Wales because whatever condition their child had was covered there but not in England.

All I know is that I gave up trying to get a check up at the clinic I was registered with and simply did a walk in at my old GP when I was home on a visit to Ireland.

Edit to add, we're off topic, I know!

Smouse156

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think thats wishful thinking by most people.
Maybe thats vendors in €3.5k apartments that might need to chase tenants, but in the lower price ranges i dont think so.

Anyone ive spoken to who is looking to rent is doing the chasing.
I was that way myself for a while.

Landlords will easily pass that on.

Landlords will try to charge the absolute maximum either way so it’s not something that will be passed on. If they think they can get higher rents they’ll raise the rent, irrespective of the property tax. It will only effect the landlord, not the tenant.

2Mad2BeMad

Browney7 wrote: »

An post will be busy delivering review letters now. It's likely every tenant in an RPZ could get a review now that Covid measures are gone?

Already got mine today, along with all the others in my small block
8percent is sickening to be honest.
Nothing but greed
2030e for a tiny 2bed in tallaght

All well and good moving but trying to find a place right now is as bad as it has been pre covid

Ace2007

selassie wrote: »

Mary Lou also making a great point about how high rents make it harder to attract workers to the capital.

Why would a highly skilled worker choose Dublin over London if they were offered 70k pounds there vs 90k euros here? £4,108 take home in London(€4,773) vs € 4,726 take home in Dublin(£4,065).

If the highly skilled worker is being offer 90k to come here, then he can easily ask his company to pay 6 months rent - and the company can write this off their tax bill. If a company wants you the'll pay it, as it's not much in the grand scheme of things.

JimmyVik

Ace2007 wrote: »

If the highly skilled worker is being offer 90k to come here, then he can easily ask his company to pay 6 months rent - and the company can write this off their tax bill. If a company wants you the'll pay it, as it's not much in the grand scheme of things.

I think you are right.


My company rented a heap of apartments recently. They also sent out a circular to staff offering to rent their apartments if they have any off them, and some have already struck a deal with them.
Some of the ones they rented off REITs they have rented but do not have to start paying rent for something like 6 - 9 months from the date they rented.
Noone will be in them until covid is finished anyway, but they have them now for contractors and other staff coming from abroad when covid is over.
They always paid us all an accommodation allowance on top of salary, whether you rent or own a house, which they are now increasing, but you have to pay BIK on that.


With those apartments I think the intention is to not pay accommodation allowance to people using them (most will be contractors anyway i believe). Some will be sharing and some will bring their families. But none of them will have to worry about accommodation problems, so its a perk for them.

steddyeddy

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Already got mine today, along with all the others in my small block
8percent is sickening to be honest.
Nothing but greed
2030e for a tiny 2bed in tallaght

All well and good moving but trying to find a place right now is as bad as it has been pre covid

I haven't lived in Ireland for over 6 years but I had planned to come back eventually. Posts like yours make me wonder why.

That's amount of rent is completely unsustainable in so many ways.

2Mad2BeMad

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

.......
2030e for a tiny 2bed in tallaght

............

Seems expensive when

https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-luxury-two-bedroom-apartment-vantage-phase-2-central-park-leopardstown-dublin-18/2629493

€2,000 per month

Luxury Two Bedroom Apartment, Vantage Phase 2, Central Park, Leopardstown, Dublin 18

Private onsite amenities help smarter, relax easily and eat well. There is a large gym, cinema, games room, entertaining kitchen, children's playroom and lounge for downtime.

Onsite convenience stores, cafés, eateries, a crèche, beauty salon and hair salon give you more options close to home so you can achieve more without having to go far.

HAP has driven rents through the rood though ........... if landlords weren't keen on not taking HAP more working folk would be homeless.

2Mad2BeMad

Augeo wrote: »

Seems expensive when

https://www.daft.ie/for-rent/apartment-luxury-two-bedroom-apartment-vantage-phase-2-central-park-leopardstown-dublin-18/2629493

€2,000 per month

Luxury Two Bedroom Apartment, Vantage Phase 2, Central Park, Leopardstown, Dublin 18

Private onsite amenities help smarter, relax easily and eat well. There is a large gym, cinema, games room, entertaining kitchen, children's playroom and lounge for downtime.

Onsite convenience stores, cafés, eateries, a crèche, beauty salon and hair salon give you more options close to home so you can achieve more without having to go far.

HAP has driven rents through the rood though ........... if landlords weren't keen on not taking HAP more working folk would be homeless.

Alot of apartments in tallaght vary from 1600 to 2200 all of them are 2bed 2bath or 1bath and all of them are ****holes.

So to justify the increase they hand picked 3 expensive ones when I can easily counter it by picking 3 cheaper ones
Wonder what the outcome will be

Claw Hammer

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Alot of apartments in tallaght vary from 1600 to 2200 all of them are 2bed 2bath or 1bath and all of them are ****holes.

So to justify the increase they hand picked 3 expensive ones when I can easily counter it by picking 3 cheaper ones
Wonder what the outcome will be

If you are going to object to the increase on the basis it is above market value, you will need an EAs report an to bring the EA to the hearing.

Graham

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If you are going to object to the increase on the basis it is above market value, you will need an EAs report an to bring the EA to the hearing.

Is that a new requirement? I haven't come across that before.

Jmc25

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Alot of apartments in tallaght vary from 1600 to 2200 all of them are 2bed 2bath or 1bath and all of them are ****holes.

This seems to be the case everywhere in Dublin - similar properties with asking prices €300/€400 per month apart.

I looked for a new rental recently and there was a relatively decent selection where I was looking, so where there were two similar properties priced on the higher and lower end of the scale, it was pretty easy for me to just enquire about the lower priced one and steer clear of throwing an extra €300 down the toilet for basically the same property.

Yet if places keep being advertised on the higher end of the scale, someone is taking them.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

If you are going to object to the increase on the basis it is above market value, you will need an EAs report an to bring the EA to the hearing.

The RTB states the following in relation to comparable rental rates, and what must accompany a rent review:

• 3 comparable dwellings. Please note that the 3 comparable properties must have been advertised within the previous 4 weeks of the date of service of the notice. 3 comparables have to be provided, if less are provided the notice of rent review may be deemed invalid. Comparable properties do not have to be in the exact same town or geographical location. Landlords can look for similar properties in similar towns nationwide.

Where are you getting the requirement for an EA report/attendance at a hearing, and what onus is there on a LL to use the lowest advertised rates, which presumably you would use to object to the increase? The specific requirements outlined above are to ensure the examples used are illustrative of the market rental rate, not the lowest rate there is.

Ray Palmer

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Already got mine today, along with all the others in my small block
8percent is sickening to be honest.
Nothing but greed
2030e for a tiny 2bed in tallaght

All well and good moving but trying to find a place right now is as bad as it has been pre covid

You would be more sickened if it went up by more and the current laws protect you from that happening.

Considering this thread is about people expecting and wanting rents to drop it is a little ironc that people are complaining about rent increases. People were looking forward to landlords losing money so doubly angry that didn't happen.

Wait till the migrant workers come to do all the construction work.

zom

steddyeddy wrote: »

I haven't lived in Ireland for over 6 years but I had planned to come back eventually.

You're not living in California I presume?

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

The RTB states the following in relation to comparable rental rates, and what must accompany a rent review:

• 3 comparable dwellings. Please note that the 3 comparable properties must have been advertised within the previous 4 weeks of the date of service of the notice. 3 comparables have to be provided, if less are provided the notice of rent review may be deemed invalid. Comparable properties do not have to be in the exact same town or geographical location. Landlords can look for similar properties in similar towns nationwide.

Where are you getting the requirement for an EA report/attendance at a hearing, and what onus is there on a LL to use the lowest advertised rates, which presumably you would use to object to the increase? The specific requirements outlined above are to ensure the examples used are illustrative of the market rental rate, not the lowest rate there is.

You are talking about the procedure for setting the increase. There is a separate requirement that the increase is not above the market rate.
I was posting about a challenge on the basis that the new rent is above market rate not that the procedure followed wasn't adequate which is a distinct complaint in itself.
The RTB have given decisions that they will only accept evidence of market rent from qualified professionals.

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You are talking about the procedure for setting the increase. There is a separate requirement that the increase is not above the market rate.
I was posting about a challenge on the basis that the new rent is above market rate not that the procedure followed wasn't adequate which is a distinct complaint in itself.
The RTB have given decisions that they will only accept evidence of market rent from qualified professionals.

The RTB is clear, 3 examples of similar properties at that rate must accompany the notice of rent increases. They are illustrative of market rate. Properties at lower rates may illustrate better value, or properties locked into lower rates by RPZ regs, but there is no onus on a LL to use these lower cost rentals to support the increase.

Can you provide any link to show a EA must attend a hearing, or provide a report?

Claw Hammer

Dav010 wrote: »

The RTB is clear, 3 examples of similar properties at that rate must accompany the notice of rent increases. They are illustrative of market rate. Properties at lower rates may illustrate better value, or properties locked into lower rates by RPZ regs, but there is no onus on a LL to use these lower cost rentals to support the increase.

Can you provide any link to show a EA must attend a hearing, or provide a report?

The object of supplying comparators is to allow the tenant make his own comparison. That is a procedural matter. There is an overall requirement that the rent cannot be above market rate. The tenant can challenge the increase on the basis that the procedures were not followed or that the new rent is excessive. The landlord can't charge above market rate so it doesn't matter what comparators he gives the tenants.

Residential Tenancies Acts 2004-2021
Setting of rent above market rent prohibited.
Residential Tenancies Acts 2004-2021
19.—(1) In setting, at any particular time, the rent under the tenancy of a dwelling, an amount of rent shall not be provided for that is greater than the amount of the market rent for that tenancy at that time.

Before the rent caps there were cases about market rent in which the Board stated it would require expert evidence in finding a market rent,

Dav010

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The object of supplying comparators is to allow the tenant make his own comparison. That is a procedural matter. There is an overall requirement that the rent cannot be above market rate. The tenant can challenge the increase on the basis that the procedures were not followed or that the new rent is excessive. The landlord can't charge above market rate so it doesn't matter what comparators he gives the tenants.

Residential Tenancies Acts 2004-2021
Setting of rent above market rent prohibited.
Residential Tenancies Acts 2004-2021
19.—(1) In setting, at any particular time, the rent under the tenancy of a dwelling, an amount of rent shall not be provided for that is greater than the amount of the market rent for that tenancy at that time.

Before the rent caps there were cases about market rent in which the Board stated it would require expert evidence in finding a market rent,

Here we go again.

The object is not to allow the tenant to make their own comparison, it is to substantiate the rental increase by illustrating similar properties currently renting at a similar rate. As required by the RTA.

The point of requiring 3 current examples of similar properties , is that they provide proof of current market rate, the LL cannot increase rent above this. There is no requirement to provide 3 examples below what is currently being advertised, or to charge mid market rates. And rent is not “excessive” if it increasesi within the RPZ regs and other similar properties are renting at that price.