Has PBP/Solidarity/RISE actually done anything?

Patser

Patser wrote: »

Who?
The Socialist workers party?
or the Socialist Party?
or the Anti Austerity Alliance?
or Solidarity?
or RISE?
or their other splinter group Independents 4 Change? Which was a spin off of the United Left Alliance (which also originally included PBP and Socialist Party), so maybe it's the ULA you're referring to?

Or did you want to go back more than last 25 years?

My favourite was AAA. To us country bumpkins it stood for AAA Golden Maverick, a milk replacer for calved to be bottle fed. Thought it apt for AAA members!

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is he holding up their pamphlet at PBP press conference?

Where?

It was likely for one of the few areas they managed to agree on a candidate.



As goes the splintering, Joan Collins left Independents4Change, which was itself a mash up of people from other parties, to form "Right2Change"; which will likely change names again in six months going on past form.


Basically only Italy has a more fragmented Left; with the original largest party going through phases of losing huge support to fraction groups and then coming back.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

Where?

It was likely for one of the few areas they managed to agree on a candidate.



As goes the splintering, Joan Collins left Independents4Change, which was itself a mash up of people from other parties, to form "Right2Change"; which will likely change names again in six months going on past form.

Isn’t that him back left in the photo? https://www.rte.ie/news/budget-2021/2020/1012/1171050-pbp-budget/

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn’t that him back left in the photo? https://www.rte.ie/news/budget-2021/2020/1012/1171050-pbp-budget/

Its a PBP-RISE joint document, article even says "RISE TD"

A one man band can't really do much, basically. PBP are many, many times larger a party than RISE albeit still tiny in a national sense.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

Its a PBP-RISE joint document, article even says "RISE TD"

A one man band can't really do much, basically. PBP are many, many times larger a party than RISE albeit still tiny in a national sense.

The article made no reference to either Murphy or RISE. That’s why I thought that he’d fully joined PBP.

JohnnyFlash

Not sure a lot of people realise that the Socialist Party (trading as Solidarity) takes most of their instruction from their equivalent in London. As Trotskyites they believe in a future that would have Britain and Ireland ruled as a single socialist republic which in turn would be part of a larger internationalist socialist grouping.

They don't go preaching that though.

Never trust a Trot.

mariaalice

I am all for a plurality of views in politics but surely a budget by them, even a fantasy one is a bit of an oxymoron because any party supporting Marxist ideas would mean a completely new state-run, on socialist principles?

Tax the 'rich' is more a middling socialist idea of the old labor party.

completedit

Contribute to democratic discourse.

FTA69

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not sure a lot of people realise that the Socialist Party (trading as Solidarity) takes most of their instruction from their equivalent in London. As Trotskyites they believe in a future that would have Britain and Ireland ruled as a single socialist republic which in turn would be part of a larger internationalist socialist grouping.

They don't go preaching that though.

Never trust a Trot.

They split off from them over a big hoo ha about identity politics apparently.

NIMAN

I just heard RBB on the news say the budget is a disgrace and doesn't do enough.

Its the biggest budget ever, leaving us with a HUGE deficit measured in tens of billions.

But its not enough. If the Gov had spent 50bn, he'd still have nothing to be happy about.
I would hate to be one of those people who finds this guy relevant.

Galwayguy35

They don't have to do much, most of the people who vote for them are illiterate dole lifers so all they have to do is come out with something like "tax the rich" and tell them they shouldn't have to pay for anything.

Annasopra

jimmyrustle wrote: »

Loath as I am to give them credit for anything, I don't think the abortion referendum would have happened without Ruth Coppinger constantly moaning from the sidelines.

Not that I'd be any sort of demented repealer by any means, but without them I doubt the vote would have happened.


Aside from that, though they aren't remotely near power, establishment figures are in fear of the reaction from them and faux leftists like Labour when it comes to taking a strong stand on immigration etc.

It was a coalition built up over 40 years. I really wouldnt credit it all to Ruth Coppinger. Many many other people spring to mind as well as Ruth.

NIMAN

I often wonder to the likes of these folk and SF ever see some decision or spending by the Gov and genuinely think "jez, thats a pretty decent thing to do", or "thats actually a good bit of spending", but then come out in public with their negative spin on it?

Wanderer78

NIMAN wrote:

I often wonder to the likes of these folk and SF ever see some decision or spending by the Gov and genuinely think "jez, thats a pretty decent thing to do", or "thats actually a good bit of spending", but then come out in public with their negative spin on it?

Probably, they are opposition after all

James Brown

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

They don't have to do much, most of the people who vote for them are illiterate dole lifers so all they have to do is come out with something like "tax the rich" and tell them they shouldn't have to pay for anything.

Dole lifers would be mad to vote outside of FF/FG or do you think parties who never sat in government created the system we have?
Can you name one party says 'you don't have to pay for anything'?

Best thing to do is stick with the status quo and pretend it's all Gino from PBP's fault.

Mad_maxx

Bowie wrote: »

Dole lifers would be mad to vote outside of FF/FG or do you think parties who never sat in government created the system we have?
Can you name one party says 'you don't have to pay for anything'?

Best thing to do is stick with the status quo and pretend it's all Gino from PBP's fault.

PBP tell us all of the time that housing , education , health , water , should all be free

blanch152

Which one of them currently has the big bullying and abuse scandal behind the scenes?

padd b1975

blanch152 wrote: »

Which one of them currently has the big bullying and abuse scandal behind the scenes?

My money's on Murphy.

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

PBP tell us all of the time that housing , education , health , water , should all be free

They don't actually, they believe they should be free to use at source, but paid for via general taxation, they also believe taxes should be raised for the more plutocratic elements of society, in order to pay for all of it, and they're not far wrong, because as things stand, you're currently the default tax payer, for conservative economic ministers

Gervais08

Wanderer78 wrote: »

They don't actually, they believe they should be free to use at source, but paid for via general taxation, they also believe taxes should be raised for the more plutocratic elements of society, in order to pay for all of it, and they're not far wrong, because as things stand, you're currently the default tax payer, for conservative economic ministers

They think that is anyone earning the higher rate of tax - and should be told roundly to f**k off with that.

Wanderer78

Gervais08 wrote:

They think that is anyone earning the higher rate of tax - and should be told roundly to f**k off with that.

I will admit, I do believe many of their ideas are pie in the sky, but they do make good points at times, but I wouldn't be overly concerned about them, I can't see them ever getting into government, but they are a torn for major parties, which is needed from time to time

Patser

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I will admit, I do believe many of their ideas are pie in the sky, but they do make good points at times, but I wouldn't be overly concerned about them, I can't see them ever getting into government, but they are a torn for major parties, which is needed from time to time

I don't see them as that much of a torn - they've shown little interest in actually getting in to power. There was a possibility after last election - when Sinn Fein 'won' and claimed it was an election for change, and left wing parties had numbers to make a government.

Richard Boyd Barrett was one of the 1st to say it was incredibly unlikely to happen, and things were too fractured. If you're not an alternative, you can be dismissed as a threat.

If even potential supporters admit a large number of their ideas are pie in the sky, they can quickly be dismissed by major leading parties as a threat to their rule. Occasionally they will point out errors or flaws in Govt policy, but it's easy to point and criticise (anyone can do that), and yes they can embarrass Govt parties too - but if you're alternative is unrealistic, then you can't be expected to be taken seriously.

dubrov

Ruth Coppinger almost managed to nationalise Dell to secure jobs.

Wanderer78

Patser wrote:

I don't see them as that much of a torn - they've shown little interest in actually getting in to power. There was a possibility after last election - when Sinn Fein 'won' and claimed it was an election for change, and left wing parties had numbers to make a government.

I never seen a left leaning government lead by sf as an option, I can't see ffg being moved all that much, they have shown, particularly in most recent elections, they'll do everything in their power to block alternatives, they've also shown, it's possible for them to maintain their position of power outside of government. I do think PBP will never enter government, but I think they do have their use of their existence, as explained, they also do have support, so they do represent a small proportion of the electorate. I think it's worth having such parties, just to keep other major parties in check, and it kinna works.

Wanderer78

dubrov wrote:

Ruth Coppinger almost managed to nationalise Dell to secure jobs.

Very unfair there, we re not the only country experiencing de-industrialisation, Dell shut for many reasons, and our governments aren't helping the situation either

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

They don't actually, they believe they should be free to use at source, but paid for via general taxation, they also believe taxes should be raised for the more plutocratic elements of society, in order to pay for all of it, and they're not far wrong, because as things stand, you're currently the default tax payer, for conservative economic ministers

Yes ,they want Dennis o brien and jp mc manus to pay for everything

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Yes ,they want Dennis o brien and jp mc manus to pay for everything

not entirely, but they do want such individuals to pay more, and theyre right, to a degree

Acosta

I wouldn't agree with everything they come out with, but they have given good opposition on plenty of issues in recent years. This is important in parliament especially when there's little or no difference between most other parties.

Mad_maxx

dont know much about him but Gino Kenny seems like a decent sort , agree with him and admire the work he,s done with regard trying to get medicinal marijuana legalised and the dying with dignity bill

i dont need the latter but could do with the former , such is the unbearable pain i get bouts of sometimes ( chronic pain ) , anyone who is terminal and suffering should be allowed to determine their own future , no reason it should result in people being simply culled as many hysterical reactionaries believe

on that issue , the catholic right do annoy me , they believe suffering is good for the soul although in their defence , so do a good few actual doctors too

Patser

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I never seen a left leaning government lead by sf as an option, I can't see ffg being moved all that much, they have shown, particularly in most recent elections, they'll do everything in their power to block alternatives, they've also shown, it's possible for them to maintain their position of power outside of government. I do think PBP will never enter government, but I think they do have their use of their existence, as explained, they also do have support, so they do represent a small proportion of the electorate. I think it's worth having such parties, just to keep other major parties in check, and it kinna works.

I don't know.

FF have had their Lazarus moment already, coming back from 2009 IMF crash, but strangely i can't see them surviving Michael Martin. They've no wiggle room.

FG occupy the right if them, and especially compared to Martin suddenly seem much more competent and in control so polls show them booming at FF's expense.

To the left you've SDs, SF and Labour all looking to make ground on various issues, an all (even Labour to an extent) having a bit a momentum now.

FF just seem to be stuck in the middle with no identity left since they went into coalition with FG, so next election could very easily become FG vs SF (with SDs, Lab, and what's left of FF being minor coalition partners). A SF led coalition is very much on the cards, I wouldn't even rule out a rainbow SD, Lab, Green, Ind govt depending on what scandals might hit any party (FG or SF) over next few strange years