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Has PBP/Solidarity/RISE actually done anything?

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    #122
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,599 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    FTA69 wrote: »
    I like that Gino Kenny actually, no time for the Trots in general but him and Joe Higgins were decent skins I think. Higgins has lovely Irish too, was watching him on TG4 there before.

    Politically I'd have nothing in common with Joe Higgins, but he was some man to kick the legs clean out from under his opponents with his withering deliveries



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    #123
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,582 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Bowie wrote: »
    Dole lifers would be mad to vote outside of FF/FG or do you think parties who never sat in government created the system we have?
    Can you name one party says 'you don't have to pay for anything'?

    Best thing to do is stick with the status quo and pretend it's all Gino from PBP's fault.

    I never said they created the system we have, in fact I shudder to think what it would be like if Murphy, Coppinger and Brid Smith ever got their hands on power.

    I've been a critic of the main parties and I mostly vote no 1 for independants but if you think any taxpayer votes for the likes of the above you're deluded.


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    #124
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,033 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The support of Independents for the last "government" (they barely governed) delivered 4 years of basically nothing - they are a waste of space, time and money.


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    #125
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Galwayguy35 wrote:
    I've been a critic of the main parties and I mostly vote no 1 for independants but if you think any taxpayer votes for the likes of the above you're deluded.


    All lefties get a strong vote from myself


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    #126
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    L1011 wrote: »
    No, she didn't. She shouted about it but absolutely no moves were made towards it

    And had it been done, there would have been an outdated factory with no orders - Dell sure as hell wouldn't have continued ordering kit from an expensive plant

    Ireland is vastly too dear an economy to do really basic assembly jobs in. That's the important thing to note - its not manufacturing, its assembly, of foreign made parts. Much cheaper to assemble them where those parts are made.

    Ten years prior to closure most of the parts were being made here too - Foxconn in Mullingar making cases, 3Com in Blanchardstown making network cards and modems, Intel making motherboards in Ireland (moved to somewhere cheaper to use the capacity for far higher complexity items), Seagate making the hard diskes, etc etc etc. By the time Dell closed none of them were. In every case either it was extremely simplistic work (cases); made obsolete by technology changes (a PC doesn't have a seperate network card anymore, its onboard) or the Irish plant moved to more complicated products.

    Pretty much, it's actually bizarre that our media are so ignorant of the factors at play that Coppinger got away with this guff for so long. What Limerick needed (and got to some degree) was easy access to retraining for people who wanted it, and more high-end jobs like Regeneron.

    Workers rights should be front and centre of all leftist parties but rarely are anymore, unfortunately. Coppinger grandstanding while the world moved on did nothing for no-one, except her own profile.


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    #127
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Pretty much, it's actually bizarre that our media are so ignorant of the factors at play that Coppinger got away with this guff for so long. What Limerick needed (and got to some degree) was easy access to retraining for people who wanted it, and more high-end jobs like Regeneron.

    Workers rights should be front and centre of all leftist parties but rarely are anymore, unfortunately. Coppinger grandstanding while the world moved on did nothing for no-one, except her own profile.

    What makes you think "the media are ignorant " ?


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    #128
    theballz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    Shortall now wants Ireland to have it's own timezone. :rolleyes:


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    #129
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    theballz wrote: »
    Shortall now wants Ireland to have it's own timezone. :rolleyes:

    Shortfall is a member of the Social Democrats- the Labour Party for slow learners.


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    #130
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/paul-murphy-uses-trotsky-to-explain-how-socialists-can-compete-with-sectarian-sf-1.3816304

    Its this sort of stuff that makes them a bit of a laughing stock.


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    #131
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    theballz wrote: »
    Shortall now wants Ireland to have it's own timezone. :rolleyes:

    what she on about now?


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    #132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    What makes you think "the media are ignorant " ?

    Because anyone who did any research into Coppinger's proposals would have seen it for the blatant nonsense it was. If it was posted here it would get dismissed as trolling, yet she was given a platform to repeat it in the media. They weren't challenging her on it, so I assume the journalists were too ill-informed to see the lack of merit in what she was saying.


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    #133
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    what she on about now?

    She doesn’t want the clocks to go back.


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    #134
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I'm just imagining it now.
    Richard Boyd Barrett as Taoiseach.
    Paul Murphy as Minister of Finance
    Gino Kenny as Minister of Foreign Affairs
    Brid Smith as Minister for Health
    Ruth Coppinger as Minister for Enterprise.

    Theyd kill each other after a week :pac:

    I say give them a chance. It would be an amusing couple of weeks. Exactly what the country needs to lift our spirits.


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    #135
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Deleted User wrote: »
    She doesn’t want the clocks to go back.

    stupid clocks


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    #136
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because anyone who did any research into Coppinger's proposals would have seen it for the blatant nonsense it was. If it was posted here it would get dismissed as trolling, yet she was given a platform to repeat it in the media. They weren't challenging her on it, so I assume the journalists were too ill-informed to see the lack of merit in what she was saying.

    There were a few posters on here supporting Coppinger in nationalising Dell, I think Bowie was one of them.


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    #137
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    mariaalice wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/paul-murphy-uses-trotsky-to-explain-how-socialists-can-compete-with-sectarian-sf-1.3816304

    Its this sort of stuff that makes them a bit of a laughing stock.

    There are small nuggets of truth in what they say but they are few and far between. For example:

    "the reality is that Sinn Féin are a bourgeois nationalist party - but of fundamental importance to any political description of Sinn Féin is that they are a sectarian party. A party which currently plays a sectarian role in the North - whose armed wing in the past waged an individual terrorist armed struggle, that was overtly sectarian and at times directly targeted working class Protestants.”"

    Ultimately, Murphy opposes everything. A foghorn of protest. The scary thing is that means he is occasionally right, like a stopped clock. When that happens, it unfortunately gives him legitimacy.


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    #138
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because anyone who did any research into Coppinger's proposals would have seen it for the blatant nonsense it was. If it was posted here it would get dismissed as trolling, yet she was given a platform to repeat it in the media. They weren't challenging her on it, so I assume the journalists were too ill-informed to see the lack of merit in what she was saying.

    thats one way of looking at it

    another is that many in the media share the same outlook , idealogically , economically and culturally as the likes of Coppinger ?

    the far left have always received a vastly disproportionate level of media coverage in ireland relative to their electoral standing


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    #139
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,599 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    I'm just imagining it now.
    Richard Boyd Barrett as Taoiseach.
    Paul Murphy as Minister of Finance
    Gino Kenny as Minister of Foreign Affairs
    Brid Smith as Minister for Health
    Ruth Coppinger as Minister for Enterprise.

    Theyd kill each other after a week :pac:

    I say give them a chance. It would be an amusing couple of weeks. Exactly what the country needs to lift our spirits.

    Gino would surely be Minister for Agriculture, or a the very least a junior with special responsibility for Horticulture


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    #140
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Some of the people mentioned above struggle to dress themselves properly, never mind the idea they could run a country.


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    #141
    crazy 88
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭crazy 88


    FTA69 wrote: »
    In general the Communist types would have a more level headed approach and they don’t go into organisations or campaigns with a view to controlling them, they wouldn’t be as politically sectarian so to speak.

    Joe Stalin was good that way alright


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    #142
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    I never said they created the system we have, in fact I shudder to think what it would be like if Murphy, Coppinger and Brid Smith ever got their hands on power.

    I've been a critic of the main parties and I mostly vote no 1 for independants but if you think any taxpayer votes for the likes of the above you're deluded.

    Fair enough, but all I see, as I've said in another comment, is people complaining about the current system and looking to PBP etc. who had no hand in it. And the evidence is always spongers and the like, who seem to do well with the status quo as is and made up generalisations like party policy is as you said 'you don't have to pay for anything'. It's lazy and wrong.


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    #143
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Shortfall is a member of the Social Democrats- the Labour Party for slow learners.

    Disrespecting the female politicians again. Men, always men. Lot of anger...


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    #144
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    None of these parties will ever enter government.
    They are supported by the welfare class plus liberal middle class types who like a political ****. They know if these parties ever got in they'd ruin the nation but are pretty sure they never will. It's personal pleasure and nothing serious in terms of voting.


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    #145
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Bowie wrote: »
    Disrespecting the female politicians again. Men, always men. Lot of anger...


    Spelling error, dude.


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    #146
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 69,033 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Bowie wrote: »
    Disrespecting the female politicians again. Men, always men. Lot of anger...

    "f" is beside "t" on a keyboard, plus its a dictionary word and Shortall is not - very easy for that to be an error.


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    #147
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    thats one way of looking at it

    another is that many in the media share the same outlook , idealogically , economically and culturally as the likes of Coppinger ?

    the far left have always received a vastly disproportionate level of media coverage in ireland relative to their electoral standing

    Point still stands, anyone who holds the view the Dell plant could have been nationalised in Limerick has no grasp on why it was closed and are either idiots or willingly ignorant.


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    #148
    crazy 88
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭crazy 88


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Point still stands, anyone who holds the view the Dell plant could have been nationalised in Limerick has no grasp on why it was closed and are either idiots or willingly ignorant.

    How do you even go about nationalising a building of a non Irish company??


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    #149
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    danmci wrote: »
    How do you even go about nationalising a building of a non Irish company??

    Set up an Government run, Irish version of Dell to make the same, soon to be obsolete, products. The buildings are owned by the IDA, afaik, though the internal fit-out would have been owned by Dell. (Not always the case).

    What Limerick needed, and got, was for Dell to keep the better jobs in Limerick, facilities to retrain the people made unemployed (and who wanted retraining) and more high end jobs in places like Regeneron. It was a devastating blow to the region, but Coppinger's solution was dreamland stuff.

    Additionally LIT, Mary I and UL all got large state support in the decade after Dell closed, and afaik, all three expanded their student numbers.


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    #150
    crazy 88
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭crazy 88


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Set up an Government run, Irish version of Dell to make the same, soon to be obsolete, products. The buildings are owned by the IDA, afaik, though the internal fit-out would have been owned by Dell. (Not always the case).

    What Limerick needed, and got, was for Dell to keep the better jobs in Limerick, facilities to retrain the people made unemployed (and who wanted retraining) and more high end jobs in places like Regeneron. It was a devastating blow to the region, but Coppinger's solution was dreamland stuff.

    Additionally LIT, Mary I and UL all got large state support in the decade after Dell closed, and afaik, all three expanded their student numbers.

    And Dell would buy the computers from them to sell on to their customers? I still don't get how that would work.


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    #151
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    danmci wrote: »
    And Dell would buy the computers from them to sell on to their customers? I still don't get how that would work.

    No one does, it was childish nonsense from Coppinger, though malicious enough on her part to be selling false hope to people in a devastating situation.


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