Boris Johnson out of hospital 12/04

KiKi III

2u2me wrote: »

One of us is clearly misreading the doctors post, as I read should. He should be getting preferential treatment. Perhaps I'm wrong but he didn't say he is getting better treatment.

Maybe if it was France or Italy then he might push another patient down the list because their health systems are overburdened. A patient might lose access to an ICU bed because Johnson took it instead. But there is no extra treatment they can give.

Well none of us know the actual facts of his condition right now, it’s all conjecture, surely?

lawred2

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

My suggestion - the EU needs to get out of politics.
Have a collective space program. Have a collective anti-Covid program.

The EU could turn into something useful.

What exactly do you think politics is? You think any of those collective programs would or could happen without political cooperation?

BanditLuke

tdf7187 wrote: »

Is there a possibility he might have spread it to Cameron and Osborne? One lives on hope, wha.

Can i ask why you would make a comment like this? Genuinely interested.

meeeeh

Snickers Man wrote: »

Intensive care means that the individual patient is constantly monitored by their own dedicated nurse at all times. By definition.

If your local homeless tramp was in the ICU, that's the care he would be getting.

For that reason, ICU beds are a finite resource. If you had 5,000 people in an ICU,you would need 5,000 nurses just for them. Which is why they only move people in there when they really need it.

My only experience of an ICU was visiting my octogenarian father in one in the hours after he had heart surgery a few years back. There was a nurse permanently at the foot of his bed.

Of course he was only in the ICU for a few hours until the anaesthetic wore off and he gradually woke up and became compus mentis. Then they moved him down to the less intensive ward. I think it;s called HDU (High Dependency Unit). A bit more involved than the standard hospital ward but not quite the one on one care of ICU.

That's just how acute hospitals work.

I posted Daily Mail link because they have it in the title but Guardian reported the same. During the Corona stsndars were widened to one nurse for up to 6 patients in ICU.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8147475/amp/Coronavirus-outbreak-ratio-intensive-care-nurses-patients-scaled-back.html

KiKi III

Sardonicat wrote: »

I read all his posts and his reference to preferential treatment referred to him getting the ICU bed now. For someone who has admitted they know absolutely nothing about what happens in ICU you sure have a great deal to say about what happens in there and the priorities of people who work in them.

I’m as allowed an opinion as anyone else. When I don’t know much about something, I tend to defer to someone who does.

Right now I have a choice between angry shouty outraged lady and calm doctor, so I’m going with the doctor.

2u2me

KiKi III wrote: »

Well none of us know the actual facts of his condition right now, it’s all conjecture, surely?

For sure, but its not like other conditions or diseases whereby if you are rich and powerful you stand a much better chance of surviving.

ShineOn7

tdf7187 wrote: »

Is there a possibility he might have spread it to Cameron and Osborne? One lives on hope, wha.

Wow



Reported.

fash

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I know how this works:

The EU doesn't do something, OMG the EU is useless wft lol.

The EU does something, OMG they're trying to make a United States of Europe.

It's a simple formula for simple minds.

Exactly: "public health" is literally a limitation built into the very heart of the EU on almost everything. Yet when the EU does exactly what the member states want it to do and wanted it to do to begin with, willfully stupid and ignorant people say "oh the EU which was literally set up to do nothing in this instance, did exactly what it was supposed to do- bad EU!!"
Honestly I despair.

Danzy

lawred2 wrote: »

Do you mean the response of a loose collection of independent states in a limited political Union?

But Brexiteers would have had everyone believe it was the opposite!? A monolithic super state issuing daily diktats.

But now it's the loose collection of independent states that is the problem..

The goalmouth is a mess at this stage with those goal posts being moved about all the time.

And then you sign off with "at least it puts an end to further integration"

AOTS

You may or may not be aware that much if the EU is in a shared currency, Italy and Spain, among others are barely running an economy at the moment.

This is vastly more serious than the 2008 crisis and if the EU and euro are to survive it will have to aggressively stimulate and support the economy.

Buying bonds no longer does that.

This is bigger than Brexit. Brexit is irrelevant.

The One Doctor

2u2me wrote: »

For sure, but its not like other conditions or diseases whereby if you are rich and powerful you stand a much better chance of surviving.

True enough. It's a straight 50/50 shot for him and if he survives he'll be out of it for months. He's not PM anymore. Godspeed to him and his family.

meeeeh

2u2me wrote: »

For sure, but its not like other conditions or diseases whereby if you are rich and powerful you stand a much better chance of surviving.

Yes they do. They always do. Obesity, smoking, diabetes will be more prevalent among poorer people. Those are the factors which decrease your chances. It might not make difference in individual cases because you can have rich overweight diabetic smoker but on average more poor people will die. Johnson will also get more attention and he should. If he dies you can have political crisis, economy will tank more and that will kill more people. So yeah some people matter more than others.

Btw Germany and some other countries have better than 50/50 rate. It was stated than more attention they can give to the patients and sooner they can interfere if they have staff and beds better are the chances.

fash

iwillyeah1234 wrote: »

My suggestion - the EU needs to get out of politics.
Have a collective space program. Have a collective anti-Covid program.

The EU could turn into something useful.

I have some seriously bad news for you if you simultaneously believe the EU should get out of "politics" but then also at the very same time get into "politics"...

Hotblack Desiato

Danzy wrote: »

You may or may not be aware that much if the EU is in a shared currency, Italy and Spain, among others are barely running an economy at the moment.

This is vastly more serious than the 2008 crisis and if the EU and euro are to survive it will have to aggressively stimulate and support the economy.

Buying bonds no longer does that.

They will print money. So will the UK. So will the US. So will everyone else.

This is bigger than Brexit. Brexit is irrelevant.

I take it you're not involved with any tourism or export businesses then :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

Sardonicat wrote: »

The doctor posting said he has likely been moved to ICU before ICU levels of care are required because he is PM and they cannot leave him wait for a bed if his condition deteriorates quickly. He did not say he would receive better care than anyone else on there. You are casting disgusting aspersions on the nusing and medical professions and support health care workers of the NHS. I won't engage with you further.

And you're indulging in ridiculous levels of overreaction and hyperbole.

Airyfairy12

When Boris Johnson decided to try and overcome the virus and keep the economy going with the 'herd immunity' approach, despite advice from the WHO and medical professionals in the UK and Europe, he made the mistake of thinking that only the poor, weak and infirm will get seriously ill from the virus. I don't think he thought for a second that he could catch this, infact it was only when very wealthy people in the UK - like the prince of Wales and other politicians started to catch Covid, that he changed his tune. I hope he gets well and all but it's because of him that so many people in the UK are sick and dying.

2u2me

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They will print money. So will the UK. So will the US. So will everyone else.

Worked out well for Zimbabwe, Hungary and Venezuela! But seriously I agree its the only solution right now.. but it won't last for very long.

Spain has just announced a universal basic income to be rolled out 'soon'.

theguzman

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

When Boris Johnson decided to try and overcome the virus and keep the economy going with the 'herd immunity' approach, despite advice from the WHO and medical professionals in the UK and Europe, he made the mistake of thinking that only the poor, weak and infirm will get seriously ill from the virus. I don't think he thought for a second that he could catch this, infact it was only when very wealthy people in the UK - like the prince of Wales and other politicians started to catch Covid, that he changed his tune. I hope he gets well and all but it's because of him that so many people in the UK are sick and dying.

No the blame is on the Chinese Communist Party, Chinese disgusting eating habits and the WHO that covered up the pandemic. Everyone who dies or is caught up in this leads firmly back to China.

Strumms

eviltwin wrote: »

Boris isn't a normal patient. His loss if it happens, and touch wood he will fully recover, will not just be a personal loss to his family, it's the death of the PM. If course that is going to have a huge impact on the national psyche. Hopefully he will be okay.

100%. The last prime minister to die in office was Spencer Percival in 1812. The country are just not accustomed to anything like this happening. To have it happen especially in these times where leadership, reliability and continuity are needed, not just for Britain but in cooperation with its allies and friends worldwide would be a nightmare, a real challenge in the fight against this virus.

WashYourHands

[I am not affiliated with boards.ie, my username is pending a change]

I hope everyone who catches this virus recovers and lives a long and healthy life.


Boris Johnson should not be in a leadership position. I wonder how many lives his poor decision making has cost.

[I am not affiliated with boards.ie, my username is pending a change]

Mental Mickey

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Reported

Really?

AllForIt

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

When Boris Johnson decided to try and overcome the virus and keep the economy going with the 'herd immunity' approach, despite advice from the WHO and medical professionals in the UK and Europe, he made the mistake of thinking that only the poor, weak and infirm will get seriously ill from the virus. I don't think he thought for a second that he could catch this, infact it was only when very wealthy people in the UK - like the prince of Wales and other politicians started to catch Covid, that he changed his tune. I hope he gets well and all but it's because of him that so many people in the UK are sick and dying.

But the NHS is funded by the economy.

At best, if what you said is true, then he made a bad tactical decision. Only time will tell, when this is all over, will we know how best to deal with a pandemic.

But what ppl are inferring is that he made the decision's he made for some nasty Tory reason. And who would do that I wonder? Remainers and socialists, no doubt.

MrMusician18

Strumms wrote: »

100%. The last prime minister to die in office was Spencer Percival in 1812. The country are just not accustomed to anything like this happening. To have it happen especially in these times where leadership, reliability and continuity are needed, not just for Britain but in cooperation with its allies and friends worldwide would be a nightmare, a real challenge in the fight against this virus.

That is overstating it. The machine of government is much bigger than one person.

BarryD2

The One Doctor wrote: »

True enough. It's a straight 50/50 shot for him and if he survives he'll be out of it for months. He's not PM anymore. Godspeed to him and his family.

Whatever happens, seems likely that Raab and others may get used to their new roles. Hard to see Boris getting back to the desk anytime soon.

Rodin

KiKi III wrote: »

Are you saying everyone in ICU has a nurse assigned to them 24/7? I doubt that.

And the only person we know for certain on the thread is a frontline medical doctor has already said it’s likely he would get better treatment.

Why should I take your word over his?

Of course they've one to one. That's the point.
Anything less like a one nurse to 2 patients would be a HDU (high dependency unit)
You've clearly never been in an ICU seeing the nurse at the end of the bed with her huge chart recording all the readings

alchemist33

theguzman wrote: »

No the blame is on the Chinese Communist Party, Chinese disgusting eating habits and the WHO that covered up the pandemic. Everyone who dies or is caught up in this leads firmly back to China.

Countries are responsible for their own responses.

BanditLuke

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

When Boris Johnson decided to try and overcome the virus and keep the economy going with the 'herd immunity' approach, despite advice from the WHO and medical professionals in the UK and Europe, he made the mistake of thinking that only the poor, weak and infirm will get seriously ill from the virus. I don't think he thought for a second that he could catch this, infact it was only when very wealthy people in the UK - like the prince of Wales and other politicians started to catch Covid, that he changed his tune. I hope he gets well and all but it's because of him that so many people in the UK are sick and dying.

I wasn't aware Boris worked in a wet market in Wuhan? Have you informed the media?

2u2me

theguzman wrote: »

No the blame is on the Chinese Communist Party, Chinese disgusting eating habits and the WHO that covered up the pandemic. Everyone who dies or is caught up in this leads firmly back to China.

They may have covered up for the first few weeks, but the thousands of deaths currently are our own fault. China announced on 20th Jan that the virus was human-human tramissable while they and Taiwan went into lock down. We in the west just didn't take it seriously enough, myself included. South East Asia as a whole dealth with it pretty well, even though with their proximity stood the most risk. They learned from the previous cases in the last 2 decades that we did not.

On the 23rd of Jan the WHO still announced they had no evidence of human to human transmission outside of China.

6541

Best wishes and hope he pulls through.

Rodin

Strumms wrote: »

100%. The last prime minister to die in office was Spencer Percival in 1812. The country are just not accustomed to anything like this happening. To have it happen especially in these times where leadership, reliability and continuity are needed, not just for Britain but in cooperation with its allies and friends worldwide would be a nightmare, a real challenge in the fight against this virus.

You are factually incorrect.
Spencer Perceval was the only Prime Minister to be murdered in office.

7 PMs have died in office, the most recent in 1865

KiKi III

Rodin wrote: »

Of course they've one to one. That's the point.
Anything less like a one nurse to 2 patients would be a HDU (high dependency unit)
You've clearly never been in an ICU seeing the nurse at the end of the bed with her huge chart recording all the readings

As I said earlier in the thread, I’ve thankfully never been in an ICU.

It’s good to know they all get their own nurse.

There’s still plenty of opportunity for preferential treatment. Who gets the nurse with 15 years experience versus the one with 3? Who gets the nurse who has a real way with people versus the one that just doesn’t? Who gets seen by the doctor first? Who gets tests done first, and whose test results are expedited?

Anyone who thinks a world leader and the average guy get the exact same treatment in a hospital is pretty naive imo.