Boris Johnson out of hospital 12/04

quokula

yosser hughes wrote: »

Yes indeed, point to me where he's been convicted of anything

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49810261

He was found guilty by the highest court in the land, of acting unlawfully, by knowingly giving a false reason for proroguing parliament.

It technically wasn't a criminal conviction so I know you're just going to argue about semantics but the substance of the statement is largely correct - he's a liar and has been shown to be such in a court of law. In addition to the many, many, many other instances people can point out.

yosser hughes

quokula wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49810261

He was found guilty by the highest court in the land, of acting unlawfully, by knowingly giving a false reason for proroguing parliament.

It technically wasn't a criminal conviction so I know you're just going to argue about semantics but the substance of the statement is largely correct - he's a liar and has been shown to be such in a court of law. In addition to the many, many, many other instances people can point out.

You and others should worry more about what our own politicians get up to.Not what our compliant media tells you to worry about.
It's all a diversion.

dresden8

Max Hastings on Boris

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth.

2u2me

Pseudonym121 wrote: »

BUT as clinicians we WOULD make these difficult calls on a case by case basis. Not cause we want to but because if we DONT make the call then even more die.

fash wrote: »

As is being done in Ireland too: there is an ethics sub committee set up to provide guidelines as to who does and does not get treatment.
The example given by Pseudonym is an easy one: a 20 year old versus an 80 year old. What about a 41 year old man versus a 46 year old woman? Men are twice as likely to die from Covid as women.
What about 2 no. 52 year olds - but one is from a poor area and the other a rich area - and people from poorer areas on average die younger.
Etc. - tough choices to be made.

Just to add a bit of context.
This is a problem arising out of ethics and automated driving these days often referred to as the trolley problem. There are no easy answers.

Apparently whether we take action or inaction gives us meaning ; it is not entirely utilitarian which is very.. human.

Consider the following:

There is a runaway trolley barreling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. However, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options:

• Do nothing and allow the trolley to kill the five people on the main track.
• Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person.

Which is the more ethical option? Or, more simply: What is the right thing to do?

Now consider the same trolley with five people destined for doom. You are standing on a bridge overhead beside a really large person. Would you push that person down on the track to save the lives of the 5? Utilitarianism is not everything.

ArmaniJeanss

yosser hughes wrote: »

You and others should worry more about what our own politicians get up to.Not what our compliant media tells you to worry about.
It's all a diversion.

In fairness the thread is about UK PM Johnson. Telling poster(s) they should worry more about Irish politics seems fairly pointless, effectively suggesting that we cannot have threads about other countries politics.

Danzy

quokula wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49810261

He was found guilty by the highest court in the land, of acting unlawfully, by knowingly giving a false reason for proroguing parliament.

It technically wasn't a criminal conviction so I know you're just going to argue about semantics but the substance of the statement is largely correct - he's a liar and has been shown to be such in a court of law. In addition to the many, many, many other instances people can point out.

What does your holiness recommend as his penance?

listermint

yosser hughes wrote: »

Yes indeed, point to me where he's been convicted of anything

care to explain

"In comparison to our erstwhle leader Bertie Ahern he's in the tupenny place"


When this mans articles stretching back to the 90s have shaped the current outlook and brought brexit to where it is.

nacho libre

dresden8 wrote: »

Max Hastings on Boris

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

Good article. As he point outs Corbyn was the Tories best asset. No wonder Boris gave Jeremy such a glowing tribute last week.

meeeeh

quokula wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49810261

He was found guilty by the highest court in the land, of acting unlawfully, by knowingly giving a false reason for proroguing parliament.

It technically wasn't a criminal conviction so I know you're just going to argue about semantics but the substance of the statement is largely correct - he's a liar and has been shown to be such in a court of law. In addition to the many, many, many other instances people can point out.

Supreme court goes often against the government. It's not just semantics to not compare it to criminal convictions. Also whinging about Brexit is pointless now. It's done, majority vote for it, those who didn't had a chance to, and tories got overwhelming majority in last election.

British government messed up Corona approach, it will affect Brexit which is monumental stupidity made worse by COvid but some of the whinging here is about as relevant as Corbyns period in charge of Labour.

BanditLuke

Jesus Christ the guy is fighting for his life ffs. You'd swear he was Genghis Khan from some of the ramblings on here.

eddie73

Is this thread a debate or is it a character assassination?

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally think that you don't kick someone when they are down.

I hope Boris Johnson makes a full recovery.

I also hope that he maybe learns something from his experience and this is reflected in policy thereafter.

abff

dresden8 wrote: »

Max Hastings on Boris

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

Wow. That is pretty scathing! I'm not saying it's unjustified. If anything, Boris has managed to be an even worse PM than Max Hastings predicted in his article.

There have been quite a few comments made on this thread along the lines of Boris's illness being a form of poetic justice. While I agree that nobody should rejoice in another person's misfortune, I do feel that his reckless disregard for proper protocol has lead to an outcome that was almost inevitable.

We all know (or know of) people who consistently drive in a dangerous manner and we are not surprised when they eventually are involved in a crash, possibly with fatal consequences. It would be pretty heartless to say that the person who was driving dangerously deserved to die, but I think we would all feel more sympathy for other people who were killed or seriously injured as a result of that person's actions than we would for the perpetrator of those actions.

I hope that Boris recovers from his current illness. But I also hope that his illness causes other people to sit up and take notice of the fact that actions have consequences. If this leads to a significant change in people's behaviour, it could end up saving thousands of lives.

yosser hughes

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

In fairness the thread is about UK PM Johnson. Telling poster(s) they should worry more about Irish politics seems fairly pointless, effectively suggesting that we cannot have threads about other countries politics.

Fair point. You will find though that there is constant criticism of Boris and the UK across all threads, to the point of obsession, but I take your point.

Mike3549

yosser hughes wrote: »

You and others should worry more about what our own politicians get up to.Not what our compliant media tells you to worry about.
It's all a diversion.

This is class.
"Show me this and this"
(Shows)
"Why wont you mind your own business"

meeeeh

I don't wish Johnson anything bad but if he dies I can't think of better real life example of Greek tragedy. It's a fascinating story. And I don't mean that in a gleeful way, it is actually very complex situation on one side and very simple and personal story on another.

BanditLuke

eddie73 wrote: »

Is this thread a debate or is it a character assassination?

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally think that you don't kick someone when they are down.

I hope Boris Johnson makes a full recovery.

I also hope that he maybe learns something from his experience and this is reflected in policy thereafter.

Absolutely. The most sensible post iv'e read on the forum.

yosser hughes

Mike3549 wrote: »

This is class.
"Show me this and this"
(Shows)
"Why wont you mind your own business"

Didn't show me anything apart from an ignorance of the law.

lalababa

nacho libre wrote: »

Good article. As he point outs Corbyn was the Tories best asset. No wonder Boris gave Jeremy such a glowing tribute last week.

Corbyn was painted by the Tories and established media AS the Tories best asset! In an unprecedented media attack (there have been several studies on this by impartials) Corbyn was painted as everything under the sun including a bloodsucking communist. The main colour being flung on the canvass was 'un-electable' . Corbyn scared the living **** out of the establishment , can you imagine he wanted higher taxes, more regulation and more de-privatisation in order to bring back a level of service in Eduction, Health, Housing and Transport , that has not been seen for 15yrs.
Have you seen the early debates with Cameron, where Corbyn grinds him down with stories of 'Sue , 30years a Maths teacher in Sheffield who has no basic supplies for her class', or 'Mike..who can't pay his rent because he has diabetes' or some such story from the poor or 'front lines'
As a fella said to me once , the English would elect a duck before a socialist liberal.

KingofSheep

KiKi III wrote: »

Are you saying everyone in ICU has a nurse assigned to them 24/7? I doubt that.

And the only person we know for certain on the thread is a frontline medical doctor has already said it’s likely he would get better treatment.

Why should I take your word over his?

They wouldnt have the staff currently to give him "better" treatment.

Also, yes. All level 3 (the sickest) patients have 1:1 nursing as standard in normal times. Once they're a bit less sick, then the ratio would be 1 nurse to two patients, generally speaking.

Is that doctor an ICU doctor?


I would argue that

megaten

BanditLuke wrote: »

Jesus Christ the guy is fighting for his life ffs. You'd swear he was Genghis Khan from some of the ramblings on here.

He's meant to have a similar number of kids anyways.

threeball

BanditLuke wrote: »

Jesus Christ the guy is fighting for his life ffs. You'd swear he was Genghis Khan from some of the ramblings on here.

He nearly has as many kids but the similarities end there. In the future one in 3 people will be a decendant of Boris.

threeball

megaten wrote: »

He's meant to have a similar number of kids anyways.

Great minds... or fools ?

jonnny68

Like so many i wouldn't have any time for him at all, but i genuinely hope he makes a recovery, end of the day he's a human being with a baby on the way.

average_runner

robinph wrote: »

The majority of people who happened to cast a vote four years ago does not equal "the majority in the UK made the decision to go over the cliff."

They never voted on the cliff option, so no one can answer how that vote would of went

Gerry T

yosser hughes wrote: »

Convicted liar? Really? Don't think so. In comparison to our erstwhle leader Bertie Ahern he's in the tupenny place

Yes a convicted liar
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/24/boris-johnson-liar-supreme-court-verdict-parliament-prorogation

Well according to the UK supreme court anyway. Your taking my response out of context, I replied to someone saying he was of good character, he's not. If someone said Ahern was of great character I'd be saying something similar about him.
Whats your point ?

fr336

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't wish Johnson anything bad but if he dies I can't think of better real life example of Greek tragedy. It's a fascinating story. And I don't mean that in a gleeful way, it is actually very complex situation on one side and very simple and personal story on another.

Yes longs to be PM his whole adult life, misses the target several times, eventually gets it and delivers biggest Tory majority since thatcher with over 80 seat majority, then within months is now in intensive care. That doesn't begin to mention a fiancee and child on way. As you say it is a story and tragedy. It's like something his hero Churchill would be amazed by.

NewbridgeIR

The view from an angry feminist. She's not unique.

https://twitter.com/sineadredmond/status/1247242860761690118

KiKi III

KingofSheep wrote: »

They wouldnt have the staff currently to give him "better" treatment.

Also, yes. All level 3 (the sickest) patients have 1:1 nursing as standard in normal times. Once they're a bit less sick, then the ratio would be 1 nurse to two patients, generally speaking.

Is that doctor an ICU doctor?


I would argue that

Are you a doctor?

One thing that is very clear on Boards is the denigration of the status of experts. You have hundreds of people on here who think they know better than doctors, epidemiologists and economists who have spent their entire lives studying and working in those fields.

I’m not familiar with the NHS personally but several people on the thread have said in the UK ICU can mean one nurse per six patients.

Agricola

eddie73 wrote: »

I also hope that he maybe learns something from his experience and this is reflected in policy thereafter.

I'd say you'd be very deluded if you think that.

Should he escape this close call, his primary consideration will be using the whole episode to bolster his own image as "wartime leader". I can almost see him getting carried out of hospital sitting up in a stretcher, cigar in hand, ala Churchill.

Boris Johnson has never been a serious person. He should be lecturing undergrads on ancient Greece or writing fluff pieces about real politicians in a newspaper column. He has no business being a PM, as his bumbling of the coronavirus crisis has shown. His first priority is always his career, second priority the Tory Party, third his wealthy pals and backers. The ordinary Joe Soap around England who is coughing his lungs up in an A&E is near bottom of that list.

I hope for his gf's and kids sake he makes it through but I also hope after this terrible time is over, people across Britain and other countries that have elected unfit buffoons to high office begin to realize the error of their ways. But I'd say I'd be fairly deluded in thinking that too.

Silent Running

I've no problem with Boris getting the clap, it probably wouldn't be his first time. But I'd hate to see him die due to a dose of Covid 19.

He's quite a funny man, even when he's trying to be serious.

Get well soon Boris, we need you in our lives.