Boris Johnson out of hospital 12/04

MrMusician18

Bob24 wrote: »

It is interesting to notice they only told us what he doesn’t have (no pneumonia, no ventilation), but haven’t told us anything about what he has.

They also said his condition is “stable” but again it doesn’t tell us anything as they hadn’t given any clear information about what it was before (It could be that he was felling well yesterday and still is today, or that he was critical yesterday and still is today).

So he could be in critical condition (with something which isn’t pneumonia), without the press releases technically being lies.

IMO: if he is in ICU there is probably something fairly severe about his condition (it wouldn’t have been taken there for no reason), and we don’t know exactly what it is because the updates which were issued were carefully worded to sound positive without actually telling us what his condition is.

Indeed. CV19 can cause liver and kidney failure, among a host of other complications not limited to the lungs.

We await real information.

Esel

anewme wrote: »

No.

This is not a quiz ffs. Why didn't you just explain?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence

s1ippy

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Indeed. CV19 can cause liver and kidney failure, among a host of other complications not limited to the lungs.

We await real information.

I would imagine we won't find out until he's better, if he recovers. Unless he expressly permits the media to report his health issue, it would be an infringement of his right to privacy regarding medical issues.

signostic

The Sun reporting his fever has eased
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11341414/boris-johnson-coronavirus-fighter-intensive-care/

MadYaker

If he survives this he’ll get a pass for ignoring the scientists for 2 weeks increasing the death count by a few thousand

meeeeh

MadYaker wrote: »

If he survives this he’ll get a pass for ignoring the scientists for 2 weeks increasing the death count by a few thousand

I'm not sure he ignored them. He just listened to the wrong crowd who belatedly discovered their model underestimated severity of the disease.

One eyed Jack

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Doesn’t everyone who signs a DNR have to be asked first?

The dialogue around DNRs can be dishonest. I want to sign one but I don’t know if they are even available in Ireland. But it seems to me that in broaching the subject with somebody, they eventually will be asked if they want to sign one. They don’t have to say yes. But asking is part of the process. They are framed often as dastardly but they can make a great deal of sense. For example, if your survival chances are basically nil, do you want aggressive interventions that likely will barely prolong your life?

In Ireland they’re called an Advance Healthcare Directive -

WHAT IS AN ADVANCE HEALTHCARE DIRECTIVE?

It informs family, friends and doctors of your wishes for your treatment in the event you can no longer communicate them yourself.

It’s a legally binding document where you write down what healthcare treatments you wouldn’t like in the future.

You can write what treatments you would like to receive too but that is not legally binding. Health professionals are obliged to explain why they did not follow your preferences though

It relates specifically to your health care and your wishes with regard to your personal health.

For example if a person did not want to be resuscitated in the event their heart stopped beating, or they did not want to be kept alive by a ventilator they could state that in the document. It is important to be specific about the circumstances in which you wish to refuse treatment and to make sure that you update your directive if you change your mind. You can also verbally revoke a directive at any time

The Irish Hospice Foundation

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Indeed. CV19 can cause liver and kidney failure, among a host of other complications not limited to the lungs.

We await real information.

I believe, but stand to be corrected, that the other complications are related to either low blood oxygen caused by the lung issues, or are a consequence of prolonged ventillation which is very tough on the body

listermint

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm not sure he ignored them. He just listened to the wrong crowd who belatedly discovered their model underestimated severity of the disease.

Ignoring all other models done across the globe.. Including ones in his own country not done by Torie plants

Bob24

s1ippy wrote: »

I would imagine we won't find out until he's better, if he recovers. Unless he expressly permits the media to report his health issue, it would be an infringement of his right to privacy regarding medical issues.

Agree. Next significant piece of information we will get probably is the final outcome (i.e. hopefully we will be told that he is out of ICU, cured, and resting to recover; but we sadly know there is another option).

TheCitizen

MadYaker wrote: »

If he survives this he’ll get a pass for ignoring the scientists for 2 weeks increasing the death count by a few thousand

Why would he get a pass for directly causing people’s death by gambling with their lives?

TheCitizen

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm not sure he ignored them. He just listened to the wrong crowd who belatedly discovered their model underestimated severity of the disease.

He gambled with peoples lives trying to pull a fast one keeping the UK economy ticking while others would’ve been at a disadvantage in lockdown or partial lockdown.

fits

Im not sure how to embed tweets but thought this was relevant from Alistair Campbell. Asking media to stop endless speculation about Johnson and focus on the other important things.

https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1247761596547387392?s=20


https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1247761600108318726?s=20

Danzy

fits wrote: »

Im not sure how to embed tweets but thought this was relevant from Alistair Campbell. Asking media to stop endless speculation about Johnson and focus on the other important things.

https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1247761596547387392?s=20

The amount of Brits taking serious now is a lot higher now than prior to his hospital stay.

The public only need to know one thing this week and it's that one should take this serious.

Bob24

fits wrote: »

Im not sure how to embed tweets but thought this was relevant from Alistair Campbell. Asking media to stop endless speculation about Johnson and focus on the other important things.

https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1247761596547387392?s=20

I don't know - just opened BBC/Telegraph/Gardian's websites, they all have a story on him on their homepage but it isn't the main headline on any of them.

Of course they shouldn't talk only about this, but when the head of government is in ICU and there is no clarity about his actually condition, it is natural for the media *and the population* to wonder/speculate about it.

Joe_ Public

Agree. It's good that the pm is recovering, happy for his family especially, but this whole episode shows him as an example not an inspiration. Dont be cavalier with this thing because the risks to you and others are far too high.

mloc123

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Have you a link for this last part?

Cheers

Will have a look. It was on the BBC lunchtime news yesterday, newsline. The woman was 71 and the reason for it was she required a bed lift... Which seems like a really low bar to set.

Dravokivich

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Doesn’t everyone who signs a DNR have to be asked first?

The dialogue around DNRs can be dishonest. I want to sign one but I don’t know if they are even available in Ireland. But it seems to me that in broaching the subject with somebody, they eventually will be asked if they want to sign one. They don’t have to say yes. But asking is part of the process. They are framed often as dastardly but they can make a great deal of sense. For example, if your survival chances are basically nil, do you want aggressive interventions that likely will barely prolong your life?

A friend of mine had to insist on one on his fathers behalf a few years ago. Had gone through a resuscitation and it was a horrible experience by all accounts. The familys grief just gets prolonged if all that's being done is stalling the inevitable.

mloc123

mloc123 wrote: »

Will have a look. It was on the BBC lunchtime news yesterday, newsline. The woman was 71 and the reason for it was she required a bed lift... Which seems like a really low bar to set.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-trust-apology-for-distress-of-pensioner-asked-to-sign-do-not-resuscitate-order-39112019.html

JoChervil

JoChervil wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52193264

From this article:
"St Thomas' has experience in treating coronavirus patients in its ICU. For extremely serious cases it can use a life support machine called ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) which replaces some of the function of the heart and lungs. There are only a handful of these machines around the country."

He will survive because he has access to this kind of machine. I wander how many such beds are in Ireland.

morebabies

Has there been any further update on Boris Johnson today? I looked on Sky news and can't find any, I know his health situation shouldn't be the main focus of news but I thought there would be more details released.

hotmail.com

morebabies wrote: »

Has there been any further update on Boris Johnson today? I looked on Sky news and can't find any, I know his health situation shouldn't be the main focus of news but I thought there would be more details released.

None, they will have to release information soon.

devnull

Update from Sky News

Boris Johnson's spokesman told journalists at a briefing just not that he is clinically stable and responding to treatment. He is still in intensive care and in good spirits.

As yesterday, he is also still receiving oxygen support.

The spokesman did not answer on whether the PM's temperature has gone down, as was reported overnight in The Times.

They did confirm though that he isn't doing any work at the moment but he has the ability to contact those that he needs to.

Dominic Cummings, who went into self-isolation at the same time as the PM 12 days ago, is also not back in Downing Street but has been in contact with Number 10 officials.

Bob24

devnull wrote: »

Update from Sky News

So basically they are giving another non-update ... we knew nothing about is actual condition before reading their statement and we still don't know anything after reading it.

tuxy

No update just means no significant change either good or bad.

Sardonicat

Bob24 wrote: »

So basically they are giving another non-update ... we knew nothing about is actual condition before reading their statement and we still don't know anything after reading it.

We know that his lungs are still functioning sufficiently to not require a ventilator.

Bob24

tuxy wrote: »

No update just means no significant change either good or bad.

Yes - but since we didn't know what is condition was before, saying there is no change essentially means nothing.

I.e. all we know is that he is in the ICU but we don't know why (no information was given which justifies taking him to the ICU).

easypazz

tuxy wrote: »

No update just means no significant change either good or bad.

There was something on the news last night that if people go over 24 hrs in ICU without needing a ventilator then their survival rate is 83%, or 83% will never need a ventilator, or something like that.

Anyway their point was he had gone 24 hours and his chances are much better now.

easypazz

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes - but since we didn't know what is condition was before, saying there is no change essentially means nothing.

I.e. all we know is that he is in the ICU but we don't know why (no information was given which justifies taking him to ICU).

Read the BBC article above, pretty much explains where he is at.

Bob24

easypazz wrote: »

Read the BBC article above, pretty much explains where he is at.

It explains what intensive care is. But it doesn't explain why he requires intensive care and what care he is getting.

All they say is that according to them he is there as a "precaution" in case he needs it. But it doesn't really make sense to me as once he is in a regular hospital setting he can be monitored closely and moved to intensive care quickly and safely as soon as required; so there is no point in moving him there unless he actually needs treatment only offered at the ICU.