Boris Johnson out of hospital 12/04

Cork Boy 53

easypazz wrote: »

There was something on the news last night that if people go over 24 hrs in ICU without needing a ventilator then their survival rate is 83%, or 83% will never need a ventilator, or something like that.

Anyway their point was he had gone 24 hours and his chances are much better now.

His chances of coming through this may be much better in the short to medium term but that doesn`t necessarily mean he will recover with no longterm effects of the virus on his health. Not wishing that on him BTW.

meeeeh

Bob24 wrote: »

So basically they are giving another non-update ... we knew nothing about is actual condition before reading their statement and we still don't know anything after reading it.

What should they do. A jinute by minute report? I think public has the right of basic updates on the situation but everyone has the right to some privacy even prime ministers.

I don't think much will change in next few days, if after 14 days the update is still comfortable and stable then you can start preparing for the worst.

skallywag

Stable can be quite a misleading state. It may convey a feeling of comfort, but it can also mean that he is in the same state as previous, with no deterioration.

easypazz

meeeeh wrote: »

What should they do. A jinute by minute report? I think public has the right of basic updates on the situation but everyone has the right to some privacy even prime ministers.

I don't think much will change in next few days, if after 14 days the update is still comfortable and stable then you can start preparing for the worst.

He is on oxygen but not a ventilator, so unless his condition changes either better or worse I don't think there is much of an update for them to give.

Bob24

meeeeh wrote: »

What should they do. A jinute by minute report? I think public has the right of basic updates on the situation but everyone has the right to some privacy even prime ministers.

I don't think much will change in next few days, if after 14 days the update is still comfortable and stable then you can start preparing for the worst.

No of course I am not saying they should have a webcam pointed at his face, and I understand they want to keep some secrecy from a government perspective and privacy from an individual perspective.

My point is more that what they are saying contains pretty much no information about his actual condition so no assumption should be made based on it (i.e. some people seem to assume that "stable condition" and "no ventilator" is good news, but he could well be in a stable very critical condition with something which doesn't require a ventilator).

Also it would be naive to think they are being completely honest about their depiction of the situation. For exemple when there was a statement on Monday saying he was send to the hospital "for routine tests", it clearly wasn't accurate even with what we knew at the time (you don't go to the hospital late on Sunday night and spend the night there for "routine tests"). And with what we know now, it is also clear that his condition was pretty bad already when the statement was made, as he was transferred to the ICU at most within a few hours.

Fr_Dougal

He’s in flying form, has just signed over another £350m, that he saved from exiting the EU, to the NHS this week.

skallywag

Bob24 wrote: »

Also it would be naive to think they are being completely honest about their depiction of the situation.

That is a complete given I would say, and if you look carefully at the language used it is the usual syntax of typical English understatement.

The usual start to an update is that he is in 'good spirits'. Yes, I am quite sure he is ...

upupup

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

He’s in flying form, has just signed over another £350m, that he saved from exiting the EU, to the NHS this week.

He'd rather be Dead in a ditch than surrender to covid19.:D

Gerry T

upupup wrote: »

He'd rather be Dead in a ditch than surrender to covid19.:D

That won't happen, It'll be the easiest thing known to man to get over.

JoChervil

Sardonicat wrote: »

We know that his lungs are still functioning sufficiently to not require a ventilator.

We don't know it. They could have skipped ventilators, which are more damaging to the lungs and put him on ECMO, which is much more sophisticated machine.

iamwhoiam

Bob24 wrote: »

Yes - but since we didn't know what is condition was before, saying there is no change essentially means nothing.

I.e. all we know is that he is in the ICU but we don't know why (no information was given which justifies taking him to the ICU).

My educated guess is that his 0xygen saturations were low and he required Oxygen to maintain them at an acceptable level . He was moved to an ICU in case the Saturation level didn’t improve and he needed ventilation support . He is after all the Prime Minister of a country in crisis so I would presume they would take all precautions and keep him safe and close to all necessary support

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

“Responding to treatment” - there’s something a bit reticent about that, isn’t there?

screamer

I don’t buy the precautionary move to ICU for a moment. anyone who has ever been in hospital with respiratory issues knows that oxygen is available at every bed, there’s no need to be in ICU for that. It’s more a case here of what is not being said, and I think the ICU care is for other complications of covid19 outside of respiratory issues. We won’t get, nor do we have a right to updates on his medical condition, it’ll be either he’s recovered or he’s dead. Given that he’s in ICU where there are ECMO machines I’m sure he’ll recover.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

screamer wrote: »

I don’t buy the precautionary move to ICU for a moment. anyone who has ever been in hospital with respiratory issues knows that oxygen is available at every bed, there’s no need to be in ICU for that. It’s more a case here of what is not being said, and I think the ICU care is for other complications of covid19 outside of respiratory issues. We won’t get, nor do we have a right to updates on his medical condition, it’ll be either he’s recovered or he’s dead. Given that he’s in ICU where there are ECMO machines I’m sure he’ll recover.

I do agree. I had serious breathing problems (couldn’t walk 2 metres without being dangerously out of breath) when I was diagnosed with cancer because of lung metastases and I still didn’t need to be sent to ICU. The oxygen I received in my regular hospital room more than sufficed.

You’re right, speculating is pointless. But one thing we know for sure is that if somebody is in an ICU, it’s serious. It’s very serious.

iamwhoiam

screamer wrote: »

I don’t buy the precautionary move to ICU for a moment. anyone who has ever been in hospital with respiratory issues knows that oxygen is available at every bed, there’s no need to be in ICU for that. It’s more a case here of what is not being said, and I think the ICU care is for other complications of covid19 outside of respiratory issues. We won’t get, nor do we have a right to updates on his medical condition, it’ll be either he’s recovered or he’s dead. Given that he’s in ICU where there are ECMO machines I’m sure he’ll recover.

But we are not all the Prime Minister of a country in crises so my guess is the goal posts would be moved for A PM

padjocollins

Hope you made a good recovery obvious desperate breakfasts

JoChervil

JoChervil wrote: »

We don't know it. They could have skipped ventilators, which are more damaging to the lungs and put him on ECMO, which is much more sophisticated machine.

This is a likely enough scenario. Sometimes people on ECMO can even function well mentally, eg Orla Tinsley was able to hold conversations whilst on ECMO prior to her successful transplant.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

iamwhoiam wrote: »

But we are not all the Prime Minister of a country in crises so my guess is the goal posts would be moved for A PM

I guess it still comes down to what Boris and his family want released. Confidentiality can’t be unilaterally breached. It must be respected.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

padjocollins wrote: »

Hope you made a good recovery obvious desperate breakfasts

Hangin’ in there like a bad smell. :pac:

Where Boris is being cared for is one of the world’s major ECMO centres:

https://www.supportgstt.org.uk/blog/buying-time-to-live

Gynoid

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Hangin’ in there like a bad smell. :pac:

Good woman.

2u2me

Deleted User wrote: »

This is a likely enough scenario. Sometimes people on ECMO can even function well mentally, eg Orla Tinsley was able to hold conversations whilst on ECMO prior to her successful transplant.

Well that still just solves a temporary problem of getting oxygen into him. Needing oxygen at all is a pretty bad indicator. Hope he gets well.

I feel I've gotten to know his sister Rachel a little from a show on sky news, she seems a lovely person and she says that of Boris too.

Bob24

iamwhoiam wrote: »

But we are not all the Prime Minister of a country in crises so my guess is the goal posts would be moved for A PM

No doubt they are giving him the absolute best care and level of attention they can.

I am not convinced moving him to the ICU "as a precaution" brings any benefit though. I might be missing something but the way I see it is that he can be closely monitored in a regular bed, and quickly and safely transferred to the ICU as soon as required. i.e. I can't really see how already being in an ICU bed which he supposedly doesn't need would improve his chances of going through this.

Also they know that once the word ICU is mentioned it will trigger all sort of concerns and speculation (especially since everything else they say is very vague). So I don't think they said this lightly.

upupup

Gerry T wrote: »

That won't happen, It'll be the easiest thing known to man to get over.

If he threatened to jump off a cliff edge,it might scare the covid out of him!

Quantum Erasure

condition improving, sitting up and engaging with hospital staff, accarding to Rishi Sunak on bbc

munsterlegend

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

condition improving, sitting up and engaging with hospital staff, accarding to Rishi Sunak on bbc

Yeah positive news. But this corona virus can deceive so not out of woods until released from
ICU.

Tea Shock

The hypocrisy of some people knows no bounds.

Cordell

You can't seriously compare Boris with that evil mass murderer.

Plumbthedepths

Tea Shock wrote: »

The hypocrisy of some people knows no bounds.

Stalin was a father also but I'm sure many while lamenting the loss of other people's father's were happy at his death. I see no hypocrisy, Castro was directly responsible for many deaths by design.

Joe_ Public

Maybe she could tweet that to Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and see what response she gets. That is, assuming you can get twitter in an iranian jail or wherever the desperately unfortunate Ms Zaghari-Radcliffe is being held on temporary release.