Dublin is NOT significantly more infected than any other county.

Cuddlesworth

GreeBo wrote: »

Is it not based on your own stats that show, including healthcare workers (i.e. also people in Dublin) the infection rate is much higher than other counties?

He is saying that hospitals for something this infectious are socially created hotspots. And that healthcare workers, both here and elsewhere have the highest odds of being infected. And a lot of those healthcare workers and hospital space are located in Dublin. We are also the main international hub for the country(first case came via Dublin to the north for example), so you expect it to have had a higher transmission rate here originally.

But if you try to normalise the data we have, seems like its spreading evenly everywhere. Almost like population density isn't really a big factor in its spread. Not sure that's such a comforting message though.

Also numbers globally are flawed. New york has straight up said the numbers found dead are increasing rapidly but they are straight up not bothering to test as they need them elsewhere. So they are just put down as deaths. Similar things are happening elsewhere globally, especially in places where the situation is blowing out of control.

PS: It always bothered me seeing articles in newspapers having a go at healthcare staff having the highest amount of sick leave of public workers. They work around sick people, is it not obvious why this would be the case?

DeVore

GreeBo wrote: »

Finally, something we agree on!


Arguably a tired and stressed healthcare worker is exactly who would want to take a break from it all....


The whole idea of treating different parts of the same country differently is nonsense to me anyway.
I think the US is a good example of that.

I added a piece to the OP for clarity on it.

And we agree on the rest of your post.

hmmm

This crisis has unleashed a lot of small-minded, parochial, curtain-twitching gob****es who seem to be whipping up anger towards certain groups - whether it's Dubliners or teenagers or cyclists or parents with young kids going for a walk. People need to cop-on and stop indulging them - because you might agree with them now, but these type of people don't stop once they get the hint of power and they'll come after you eventually if they're encouraged.

DeVore

DeVore wrote: »

No. This list is without ANY healthcare workers being removed.

My point what that if you accept the assumption that 2/3rds of them are in Dublin (where most of the big hospitals, the busiest hospitals and the front line hospitals are) then the numbers normalise further. This is a very rough metric, and I dont have distribution numbers for infected hospital staff but I would not imagine it would move the other counties by much except perhaps Cork.

The list as published in the OP does NOT have the healthcare workers removed.

Don't most healthcare workers working in Dublin live in Dublin?

Bandana boy

the phrase beggars can't be choosers comes to mind.
If the beggars (Rural Ireland) want isolationism well then they can more than double their tax payments to pay for the services they currently have or cut their cloth accordingly and remove half the services they currently get , double class room sizes and cancel all their infrastructure projects.

Wibbs

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

PS: It always bothered me seeing articles in newspapers having a go at healthcare staff having the highest amount of sick leave of public workers. They work around sick people, is it not obvious why this would be the case?

+1000 C. it's illustrated by that old joke "I'm not going to hospital, it's full of sick people!". Of course healthcare staff, everyone who works in a hospital, is going to be exposed to more pathogens and more likely to catch one. See how quickly the winter vomiting bug(which is mad contagious) rips through patients and staff and visitors in a hospital setting. Same for care homes. Thank Christ covid19 isn't that infectious.

FloatingVoter

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't most healthcare workers working in Dublin live in Dublin?

Dublin, Wicklow, Kildare, Meath ?.....any of the catchment area. You'll not find many commuting from Kerry or Donegal but anything else would be fair game.

Amirani

I'd rather meet an infected Dublin person than a non-infected Cavan person.

Still waters

Bandana boy wrote: »

the phrase beggars can't be choosers comes to mind.
If the beggars (Rural Ireland) want isolationism well then they can more than double their tax payments to pay for the services they currently have or cut their cloth accordingly and remove half the services they currently get , double class room sizes and cancel all their infrastructure projects.

We should all move to dublin so, good idea. Or maybe you're talking out your hole

ijohhj

suicide_circus wrote: »

these are pre-existing animosities, no?

100%.

Imagine having hateful sentiment about people living in civilization. :rolleyes:

ShineOn7

Amirani wrote: »

I'd rather meet an infected Dublin person than a non-infected Cavan person.

That gave me a much needed laugh

Wibbs

Bandana boy wrote: »

the phrase beggars can't be choosers comes to mind.
If the beggars (Rural Ireland) want isolationism well then they can more than double their tax payments to pay for the services they currently have or cut their cloth accordingly and remove half the services they currently get , double class room sizes and cancel all their infrastructure projects.

One question posed by feck knows who on the RTE News does not a mass movement make. I seriously doubt people in rural Ireland want isolationism or to "lock down" the Jackeens. At most they don't want to see an influx into their areas over the Easter or summer and want people to stay put, including their own. I certainly wouldn't want an influx of people from I dunno West Clare into my area over the weekend. Stay the fuck at home. Simple as.

Wibbs

+1 It's the deaths that count. Those we can quantify the most. Not perfectly, but the most. And we're not doing as well as we should be.

Amirani

hmmm wrote: »

This crisis has unleashed a lot of small-minded, parochial, curtain-twitching gob****es who seem to be whipping up anger towards certain groups - whether it's Dubliners or teenagers or cyclists or parents with young kids going for a walk. People need to cop-on and stop indulging them - because you might agree with them now, but these type of people don't stop once they get the hint of power and they'll come after you eventually if they're encouraged.

Agreed. They're helping nobody.

That said, there are some annoyances about. Friend of mine is working as a doctor in Crumlin. She was walking home from work along the canal last night and she said it pissed her off a lot to see a number of groups sitting along the canal, some drinking and some just chilling about. She said it's pretty disheartening to be dealing with really sick Covid patients in work and to see people taking the piss like that on the way home.

Amirani

Amirani wrote: »

I'd rather meet an infected Dublin person than a non-infected Connemara person.

Fixed that for you, there.

hmmm

Wibbs wrote: »

At most they don't want to see an influx into their areas over the Easter or summer and want people to stay put, including their own.

The hint as to the real purpose of the postings is the repeated use of the words "rich" and "SUV". It's an opportunity to indulge in age-old prejudice and jealousy, wrapped up in some high-minded drivel about keeping a virus out of a local area.

I think most people are only learning the rules of this new world, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with people asking non-locals to stay out of an area. If that's re-inforced by police checkpoints, all well and good. But whipping up hatred if a 'D' reg car is spotted, or the sort of over-the-top vitriol being posted about outsiders, is just the absolute worst of rural Ireland on display.

I would imagine there is far more people who were working in Dublin who have gone home to stay at the family home, either because their students or they've lost their jobs or to work at home, than there are outsiders going to holiday homes. But not a word about them, even though they're just as likely to carry the virus.

Amirani

KyussB wrote: »

No, the standard of metrics vary - I think that here in Ireland we are only testing priority groups, which would partially blind us to community transmission - something which is important/relevant to the Dublin figures, in particular.

The places where the metrics vary worse than here, may be more likely in the 10+ countries that are doing worse than Ireland (including France), because they'd be getting overwhelemed more - but we don't know, just have to go with the metrics we've got.

It's not just the standard of metrics, it's the methodology around them. The UK and some others for example have said they're just counting hospital deaths. That's not because they're overwhelmed, it's because they think it's the most reasonable approach. Other countries are counting any death that has any reference to Covid on the death cert. It varies hugely, so it's not altogether reasonable to compare deaths between countries.

As you say, similar problem with case counts. Ireland hasn't had the same community testing levels as Germany or Norway. It has had significantly more than some other countries though. As a result, comparing confirmed case numbers between countries is even more pointless. Germany has 109k cases, the exact same number of France. France has 5 times as many deaths; the case numbers clearly aren't comparable.

Xertz

By GDP the Irish economy is basically Dublin, Cork and the other 3 cities. The agricultural side of the economy is important for food production, but as a % of GDP or GNI it’s increasingly small as the focus has shifted towards services, tech, pharma, biotech, even education etc. We aren’t an agricultural economy anymore.

There’s nothing unusual about that. It’s just urbanisation and economic development. It would be highly odd if a country didn’t have hubs of economic activity and large areas of less dense rural activity. We need to stop seeing them as one competing against the other. The cities are our cities, no matter where we live.

However, I think the issue in Dublin with this could well be down to ridiculously bad housing. I would also suspect that may be an issue in Cork City, but perhaps is being diluted into the county stats.

If you think about the quality of housing in Dublin in recent years, it’s been abysmal and you’ve loads of overcrowding, especially for younger people and that’s going to include a lot of health workers.

Our housing policies in the past were driven by a need to deal with polio and TB. We had massive spread of those in the 1930s and 40s and that was what drove those waves of massive social housing build and the slum clearances in particularly in Dublin, Cork and Limerick.

We cannot go on with housing policies that create overcrowding. We’ve just been lucky that we haven’t had an outbreak of something like this until now. Human history is a lot more like this. Pandemics were regular. We we were living in terror of polio and TB well into the 1950s

Downlinz

Unfortunately it'd take up huge Garda resources to enforce a lockdown on Dublin while the rest of the country gets back to normal as we've seen in other countries this tends to encourage people fleeing the infected areas (New York, Milan) and going to safer parts (Florida, South Italy) and bringing the infection with them making the picture worse overall.

Dubs will need to wait this out and the rest of the country will have to remain locked down to protect themselves from an influx of Dubs.

Wibbs

gourcuff wrote: »

well thats complete nonsense and extremely narrow minded

And yet you then go on to demonstrate that you yourself are so narrow minded you could look through a keyhole with both eyes at once? With a fair fluency in nonsense with it.

... 450k people living in dublin are not from dublin according to the census. If anything it is irish people and immigrants who have propelled the economy forward and filled the gaps in the labour market that the natives couldnt.

When it was just dubs the city looked like the commitments, now its a modern thriving european city, very little of that is down to anto and deco in my opinion

"Irish people"? So Dubliners, the "natives" are somehow not Irish? Thankfully 99% of people outside Dublin and inside it for that matter don't hold such utterly ridiculous views as you, or speaking as a sixth generation Jackeen I'd be crowdfunding the rebuilding of the Pale.

Still waters

Bandana boy wrote: »

Never said that , just be a little more grateful that it us Dubs paying for your standard of life.

Im thankful i have miles of burren walkways and sea air and a very comfortable way of life, ill leave the jackeens to the rat race living in tenement boxes and the rush hour traffic living life on the m50, still tho i suppose being near cinemas, dominoes pizza and Starbucks makes up for it, thanks again for putting up with all that to pay for my very comfortable standard of living

Xertz

We have failed to develop cities well here. There’s no question about it. We also tend to benchmark ourselves against the U.K., which is a low bar. London has a lot of cultural stuff and decent, if very expensive, public transport but large regional British cities which would compare with Dublin are pretty similarly badly developed and planned and often lack infrastructure that would compare with continental European cities.

Irish cities also have no autonomy or local government. We don’t give cities the tools to develop properly so they can’t make decisions and they won’t ever be able to compete with European or other cities that do have all of those tools at their disposal.

Then we put on the GAA shirt mentality and you don’t get the sense that say Cork City feels like a regional hub for south Munster, instead you’ve got people throwing barbs.

It’s the same with Dublin. There’s a ridiculous Dub/Culchie divide and it works both ways.

I also find “culchies” tend to utterly undermine Cork and other cities too. There’s a large cohort who live in a Dublin vs Non Dublin bubble and never set foot in the other cities and do a lot to undermine them.

There’s a terrible anti urbanism in Ireland and is self destructive.

These cities are our cities. They’re national and regional resources.

gourcuff

Wibbs wrote: »

And yet you then go on to demonstrate that you yourself are so narrow minded you could look through a keyhole with both eyes at once? With a fair fluency in nonsense with it.

"Irish people"? So Dubliners, the "natives" are somehow not Irish? Thankfully 99% of people outside Dublin and inside it for that matter don't hold such utterly ridiculous views as you, or speaking as a sixth generation Jackeen I'd be crowdfunding the rebuilding of the Pale.

of course they are irish, i was distinguishing as the poster above somehow claimed every person living in dublin is a dubliner, which is obviously incorrect as the census shows 450k living in dublin who are not from dublin.

DeVore

Please take the discussion of Dubliners vs Culchies and who subsidises who somewhere else, ideally off Boards, thanks.

Again comparing detected cases is a waste of time. Compare % deaths or % of people in ICU per 1000 of population based on where they live, not where they go to hospital.

And Cavan is a bad example, as Cavan seems to have a very high infection rate for some reason.

It's common sense that more densely populated areas with lots of international flights would suffer worse than rural backwaters. Having said that Cork does well on these metrics compared to Dublin.

Cuddlesworth

Deleted User wrote: »

And Cavan is a bad example, as Cavan seems to have a very high infection rate for some reason.

They copped it was free to get.




I'll show myself out the door.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

DeVore wrote: »

Dublin has bigger numbers, because Dublin is... wait for it... bigger. 1.3M Live here... but its not really more infected by % than anywhere else particularly.

County Dublin has 27% of the population (just the county, I'm not including the greater Dublin area).
County Dublin has 54% of the covid-19 cases (again, just the county so it's a fair comparison).

I live in Dublin. I am not remotely put out by people questioning whether restrictions should be more strict here. The population density makes a huge difference. My parents are like to meet nobody on their daily constitutional in the west of Ireland. I meanwhile can't really step out because I will meet a fair few people.

And like others, I'm not understanding why you are excluding healthcare workers. Some of them will go home to neighbouring counties after work but does that make much of a difference to the stats? And they might not leave the Dublin area but they still need to do everyday things like all the other humans. So they'll come into contact with others just like anyone else.

Ballso

Still waters wrote: »

Im thankful i have miles of burren walkways and sea air and a very comfortable way of life, ill leave the jackeens to the rat race living in tenement boxes and the rush hour traffic living life on the m50, still tho i suppose being near cinemas, dominoes pizza and Starbucks makes up for it, thanks again for putting up with all that to pay for my very comfortable standard of living

The muck savage attitude in a nutshell. Entitled parasites.

Deebles McBeebles

I hadn't heard about people wanting Dublin to be locked down until I read this fairly nonsensical thread but yeah, its a large population urban area, it should be locked down.

I'm from an area that is getting off relatively easy right now. It won't stay like that if people from all large urban areas start going on holiday to less populated areas. That's not just Dublin, before someone else starts.

timsey tiger

Deleted User wrote: »

And Cavan is a bad example, as Cavan seems to have a very high infection rate for some reason.

Proximity to north?