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Another Own Goal by the HSE .

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2

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    #32
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Having had family members had two major heart ops in private hospitals (A&E) and two further family members treated for serious medical emergency needs in private hospitals (private A&E again) I would beg to differ. Also from experience The difference between public oncology treatment and that in a private hospital is eye watering. Not everything ‘free’ is necessarily good, quality or reliable. And from my experience of the sloppy work riddled with mistakes by sub qualified doctors presenting themselves as experts and their laxidisacal errors and disruptive ‘service’ in public hospitals I will remain a firm advocate of private. I wouldn’t bet my health on anything else.

    Doctors in private hospitial are just as likely or unlikey to make a mistake just because you are paying for it dose not make it better, but people have an iron clad belife that privite = better, ask any firm of solicitors who deal with meidcal negligence.

    I have had treatment in both the privite and public systmes and both were very good.


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    #33
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,643 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    dotsman wrote: »
    I think it's more of an own goal for those that think you can simply destroy the private sector and expect everything to work seamlessly.

    But when the **** hits the fan its the public service that always has to take the hit. Say what you like about the HSE, a lot of it rightly to be fair, but it's good to have a national health service in an emergency situation like this.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Montage of Feck wrote: »
    But when the **** hits the fan its the public service that always has to take the hit. Say what you like about the HSE, a lot of it rightly to be fair, but it's good to have a national health service in an emergency situation like this.

    Yep. Look at what's happening in the private nursing and residential homes at the moment


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    #35
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭mountai


    Yep. Look at what's happening in the private nursing and residential homes at the moment


    Published figure so far show that the most deaths have taken place in State Run Homes . A figure to ponder , --- Public service run homes cost average 60% more to run than those in the private sector . . and another point , featured in the
    news tonight , according to the INMO a total of SIX, yes, SIX new nurses have been added to the workforce out of a total of THOUSANDS OF APPLICANTS .
    HSE = Total disaster .


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    #36
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,504 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    mountai wrote: »
    Yep. Look at what's happening in the private nursing and residential homes at the moment


    Published figure so far show that the most deaths have taken place in State Run Homes . A figure to ponder , --- Public service run homes cost average 60% more to run than those in the private sector . . and another point , featured in the
    news tonight , according to the INMO a total of SIX, yes, SIX new nurses have been added to the workforce out of a total of THOUSANDS OF APPLICANTS .
    HSE = Total disaster .

    The public run nursing units would have a lot of long-stay very vulnerable people with complex needs you are not comparing like with like that does not mean they are above scrutiny though.

    The HSE could be a lot better but it is not a disaster by any means.


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    #37
    dotsman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Montage of Feck wrote: »
    But when the **** hits the fan its the public service that always has to take the hit. Say what you like about the HSE, a lot of it rightly to be fair, but it's good to have a national health service in an emergency situation like this.

    Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against having a public system; in fact, I'm all for it. But I am against denying a private alternative to people, especially when that private alternative offers essential services that the public system fails to address.


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    #38
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    JustAThought wrote: »
    Having had family members had two major heart ops in private hospitals (A&E) and two further family members treated for serious medical emergency needs in private hospitals (private A&E again) I would beg to differ. Also from experience The difference between public oncology treatment and that in a private hospital is eye watering. Not everything ‘free’ is necessarily good, quality or reliable. And from my experience of the sloppy work riddled with mistakes by sub qualified doctors presenting themselves as experts and their laxidisacal errors and disruptive ‘service’ in public hospitals I will remain a firm advocate of private. I wouldn’t bet my health on anything else.

    Who's on the shop floor when the consultant goes home in the private hospital? Considering those won't be training posts.


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    #39
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,984 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Rodin wrote: »
    Who's on the shop floor when the consultant goes home in the private hospital? Considering those won't be training posts.

    Who's there in a public hospital? Likely a sleep-deprived trainee doctor.

    I think I'd rather the experienced nurse in the private hospital.


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    #40
    Rodin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Rodin


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Who's there in a public hospital? Likely a sleep-deprived trainee doctor.

    I think I'd rather the experienced nurse in the private hospital.

    Give me an SPR over a nurse any day of the week.
    Who do you think will be calling who for their help?


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    #41
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭mountai


    So the HSE have labelled some of the patients in St Mary's nursing home ( run by themselves) as " DIRTY". This gets worse and worse.


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    #42
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    mountai wrote: »
    So the HSE have labelled some of the patients in St Mary's nursing home ( run by themselves) as " DIRTY". This gets worse and worse.

    That's not what's happening. It's referring to contamination.

    I bet where ever you read this has comments correcting this.


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    #43
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭mountai


    beauf wrote: »
    That's not what's happening. It's referring to contamination.

    I bet where ever you read this has comments correcting this.

    Of course they have issued an apology for use of "Unfortunate choice of words" , but ---- Will the person who issued this statement be censured --- You bet they wont . ---- If however , a person employed in the private sector , issued a statement like this , they would be shown the door , and rightly so . BTW , the word WAS referring to "Patients" NOT contaminated areas .


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    #44
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    That memo was probably written by an experienced nurse or doctor.

    Do you think we can afford to censure them or "show them the door" over an unfortunate turn of phrase in an internal document that was probably never intended for public consumption.


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    #45
    Jim Root
    Registered Users Posts: 487 ✭✭Jim Root


    Another health expert on the forum I see.


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    #46
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    mountai wrote: »
    Of course they have issued an apology for use of "Unfortunate choice of words" , but ---- Will the person who issued this statement be censured --- You bet they wont . ---- If however , a person employed in the private sector , issued a statement like this , they would be shown the door , and rightly so . BTW , the word WAS referring to "Patients" NOT contaminated areas .

    You want to sack them because you're offended by a word that's in common use in medical circles. Maybe you'd like to ban the word infected. Perhaps employ grammar police to all hospitals.

    The media and press use offensive words all day long and a lot of it is fake and designed to cause offence and conflict. Probably get bonuses the more inaccurate and inflammatory it is.

    This was mostly corrected in the comments in wherever you read it, but you decided to spread the disinformation and cause more fake outrage. You also decided to sweeten the bait with some private sector Vs public sector stirring.


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    #47
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,200 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This is all a bit moot. According to my medic friend in St James, the qualified ICU nurses, physios, nutritionists etc are simply not materialising to appropriately operate ICUs established in the private hospitals.

    As our numbers are stabilising without undue pressure, it would be more prudent to let consultants in day-to-day specialties return to treating both their private and public patients.


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    #48
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    This is all a bit moot. According to my medic friend in St James, the qualified ICU nurses, physios, nutritionists etc are simply not materialising to appropriately operate ICUs established in the private hospitals.

    As our numbers are stabilising without undue pressure, it would be more prudent to let consultants in day-to-day specialties return to treating both their private and public patients.

    Going to be hard to achieve that with social distancing.

    We've appointments due in a hospital that's taken a lot of normal work from the hospital's handling virus patients. They don't have resources to do both.


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    #49
    Roanmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    This is all a bit moot. According to my medic friend in St James, the qualified ICU nurses, physios, nutritionists etc are simply not materialising to appropriately operate ICUs established in the private hospitals.

    As our numbers are stabilising without undue pressure, it would be more prudent to let consultants in day-to-day specialties return to treating both their private and public patients.

    This is sensible suggestion. I think the HSE / Government used a sledge hammer to crack a nut here. Stopped everything in the Private hospitals at the stroke of a pen.

    The Sunday Business Post has a great article on the situation on it's front page today. Doesn't take any sides but lays out what's happening.

    - Only a fraction of the private beds have been taken up.
    - Private Hospitals were paid 90m for April.
    - Public Consultants with private patients still allowed to treat and bill private patients (or Insurance Companies), this option is not open to Private Consultants.
    - Consultants saying rent, staff and insurance part of the cost
    - Confusion around termination date
    - Consultants may take legal action
    - Lot of Private Consultants and Staff not working at present


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    #50
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Roanmore wrote: »
    This is sensible suggestion. I think the HSE / Government used a sledge hammer to crack a nut here. Stopped everything in the Private hospitals at the stroke of a pen.

    ....

    That's was probably the right choice in face of pandemic that has overloaded health systems in other countries.

    Certainly time to re-evaluate but there will be further waves of this virus as had been seen in other countries after the initial lock down is eased.


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    #51
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭mountai


    beauf wrote: »
    That's was probably the right choice in face of pandemic that has overloaded health systems in other countries.

    Certainly time to re-evaluate but there will be further waves of this virus as had been seen in other countries after the initial lock down is eased.

    And of course they contracted to pay the private sector THREE TIMES THE PRICE that the UK contracted their private hospitals for .


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    #52
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Price gouging during a pandemic. Heroic stuff.


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    #53
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭mountai


    beauf wrote: »
    Price gouging during a pandemic. Heroic stuff.

    Just goes to show how stupid and inefficient the HSE are , QED .


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    #54
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    What you're saying is they should have refuse to pay the blackmail of the private sector, and let people die to prove a point.

    HSE is broken. No doubt about that. But they couldn't do this without Govt sanction. They wouldn't need to do this if the private sector didn't hold them to ransom. But you're ok with all of that.


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    #55
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭mountai


    beauf wrote: »
    What you're saying is they should have refuse to pay the blackmail of the private sector, and let people die to prove a point.

    HSE is broken. No doubt about that. But they couldn't do this without Govt sanction. They wouldn't need to do this if the private sector didn't hold them to ransom. But you're ok with all of that.
    What I am saying is
    1/ The Government should never have put the private consultants in a position that they refused point blank to sign a contract that discriminated against them .
    2/ The HSE could have handled the recruitment of returning medical professionals in a timely and efficient manner ( 6 nurses appointed out of 1000+) up until yesterday .
    3 / The HSE should have at least met with the private nursing home reps , having been asked for such a meeting since beginning of March .
    4/ The question must be answered as to why the HSE controlled homes cost on average 60% more to run than the private ones .
    5/ It has become obvious that the main "Clusters" in nursing homes are in those run by the HSE --- Why ??.
    6/ Why are staff in public hospitals not being deployed to help out in effected nursing homes ( now that SIPTU have agreed to ALLOW this to happen!!!)

    I could go on and on , the HSE is not broken , things have been like this for years .


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    #56
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I'm not sure what the difference betwwen broken and been the same for years is. It's been broken since formed from the health boards. It was meant to conciliate the staff and services instead it added layers of administration and complexity and cost. They has got worse over time.

    That is why everything takes ages and costs a fortune.

    Part of the reason the public nursing homes are more expensive is they have more permanent staff and more staff. Go into a private one and the staff constantly rotate. Even the more expensive ones often have less staff. Look at the jobs advertised working in them, on minimum wages.

    I'd assume the public nursing homes tend to get the more dependent, sicker and older residents. I could be wrong but it's very probable. Some are attached to day hospitals and have doctors on site. There are no private nursing homes that have this afaik.


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    #57
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cash-crisis-for-fair-deal-as-nursing-home-demand-soars-38019739.html

    Most people have been ignoring the crisis with elderly care until now.


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    #58
    mountai
    Registered Users Posts: 953 ✭✭✭mountai


    The latest pearl of wisdom from HSE . They are demanding that privater nursing homes , must admit , within one hour , patients that are diagnosed already suffering with the virus . So if a nursing home is virus free ATM , it becomes infected , and best of all , no liability will be accepted by the HSE . Couldnt make this **** up if you tried !!!. Good man Simon .


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    #59
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    mountai wrote: »
    The latest pearl of wisdom from HSE . They are demanding that privater nursing homes , must admit , within one hour , patients that are diagnosed already suffering with the virus . So if a nursing home is virus free ATM , it becomes infected , and best of all , no liability will be accepted by the HSE . Couldnt make this **** up if you tried !!!. Good man Simon .

    Can you provide a link for this.


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    #60
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Roanmore wrote: »
    This is sensible suggestion. I think the HSE / Government used a sledge hammer to crack a nut here. Stopped everything in the Private hospitals at the stroke of a pen.
    Nobody knew where that nut was! That analogy has been used, even by the CMO I believe. It is what every country end up doing anyway. As has been said better to go all it and be blamed for overreacting to being blamed for not reacting.


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    #61
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    mountai wrote: »
    The latest pearl of wisdom from HSE . They are demanding that privater nursing homes , must admit , within one hour , patients that are diagnosed already suffering with the virus . So if a nursing home is virus free ATM , it becomes infected , and best of all , no liability will be accepted by the HSE . Couldnt make this **** up if you tried !!!. Good man Simon .
    I think you are making it up. It's not even logical. Is this the Whatapps morning briefing?


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