Can employer make me take a 20% wage cut?

_Brian

There is no legal way they can unilaterally enforce a pay reduction.

However as many have pointed out above your cards will be marked.

It’s unclear yet the extent of the forthcoming recession, I don’t think it will be mild anyway, so if taking this cut kept you in employment I think it’s worth considering.

It may of course affect future redundancy if things don’t improve.

Augme

salonfire wrote: »

Why would a company choose to close the cheaper non-unionised one and keep the more expensive unionised one?

Because it would be a lot cheaper and easier to close the other ones. The hassle of trying to close the unionised one would be fairly significant. The company would be looking at having to potentially go through lengthy negotiations, strikes and then significant payouts to close the two factories. For the non unionised one they just need to pay statutory redundancies.

_Brian

sgthighway wrote: »

Very few Pharma companies in Ireland are stuck for cash. If they cut your wage by 20% you should be working 20% less and you should be using Covid welfare to make up the shortfall.

Local company here owned by a local family. The father and son owners have taken out about €50 million in last five years (publicised in papers), staff are on a 30% wage cut for 4 months now, it’s quite disgusting. They were given the option of pay cut or immediate redundancy.

Victor

Augme wrote: »

Because it would be a lot cheaper and easier to close the other ones. The hassle of trying to close the unionised one would be fairly significant. The company would be looking at having to potentially go through lengthy negotiations, strikes and then significant payouts to close the two factories. For the non unionised one they just need to pay statutory redundancies.

The problem there for you is that around the world, many pharmaceuticals are made at single or at most a few sites. Converting a site from making drug A to drug B could cost tens if not hundreds of millions of euros.

B.A._Baracus

Annoying "choice" you're given.
- don't take the cut and be potentially get the axe when they announce more cost cutting measures.
- times are gonna be bad soon. So having a job with 20% reduction is better than not having a job.

If it was any other time the advice would be just start sending your CV out.

tdf7187

davo2001 wrote: »

Hi,

Employed by a large phara multinational on a permanent basis for a number of years.

We have all been asked to take a 20% pay cut (while working the same amount) due to "global issues".

We are not part of a union, can they make us do this?

Yes they can, they can cut your wages by more 20% if they feel like it.

Perhaps youse will learn your
lesson and set up a union (cue screams of outrage from the usual right wing neo-liberal brigade).

Seve OB

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yes they can, they can cut your wages by more 20% if they feel like it.

Perhaps youse will learn your
lesson and set up a union (cue screams of outrage from the usual right wing neo-liberal brigade).

you need to brush up on your legal knowledge

I woke up over morning to find my employer has reduced my basic pay by 20%, my allowances by 25% and restructured my hours so I had to do 30 hours free a year. I am in a union

Maybe it's better not to be 🀔

_Brian

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yes they can, they can cut your wages by more 20% if they feel like it.

Perhaps youse will learn your
lesson and set up a union (cue screams of outrage from the usual right wing neo-liberal brigade).

You don’t need a union to have statutory rights.
An employer can not legally enforce a pay cut without employee agreement.

ZeroThreat

_Brian wrote: »

Local company here owned by a local family. The father and son owners have taken out about €50 million in last five years (publicised in papers), staff are on a 30% wage cut for 4 months now, it’s quite disgusting. They were given the option of pay cut or immediate redundancy.

If you have a problem with this, better not to work for any family business. From my own personal experience they're only set up to look after themselves at the end of the day and it rarely ends well for anyone know in the family circle.

Mrs OBumble

ZeroThreat wrote: »

If you have a problem with this, better not to work for any family business. From my own personal experience they're only set up to look after themselves at the end of the day and it rarely ends well for anyone know in the family circle.

Family businesses exist to generate wealth for family members. Nothing wrong with that: the family has put its welbeing on the line to take the risk of starting/running the business.

Shareholder-owned businesses exist to generate wealth for shareholders. Nothing wrong with that, either: the shareholders have invested their resources to take the risk of starting/running the business.

If you have a problem with working for the man in either of those scenarios, then you need to go and work for the government.

Strumms

If an employer asked me to take a percentage wages hit in these circumstances and btw there is no fûcking way I’m taking a 20% hit for starters but if they said help us out and take 10-15% Id be wanting the following provided in writing....

1) the previous three years financial results to justify it.

2) ‘documented’ projected sales figures for this year in light of the health crisis and a comparison with last years. If they expect to be 10% down and the employees are being asked to take 20% in cuts ? NO, not happening..

3) written guarantees that the following financial year I’m getting my wages restored with an extra % on top.

4) if they expected to get hit 10% we take 5% with the guarantee pay is restored within a year followed by x% increase.

If I’m a car salesman... I make 40,000 a year and keep 5% of revenue I sell.. together that’s an annual gross income say 50,000 euros, I bust my hump to sell sell sell, every technique and trick in the book, I kiss more ass than the owner of a donkey sanctuary...I like the job, the company, the money.... if the incentive is withdrawn... the employee who was hard working, who to going over and above was the daily standard, who was incentivized by all the above might just turn....

The early starts to meet a potential client before they need to be in work ? Nope.. hey contract says 9-5

The trip to the UK that is needed for training on a Saturday, your day off ? Yes I know I went last year, ‘I’ was flexible, now I’ve something on, family, sorry.

Hoboo

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yes they can, they can cut your wages by more 20% if they feel like it.

Perhaps youse will learn your
lesson and set up a union (cue screams of outrage from the usual right wing neo-liberal brigade).

You can set up a union or be part of one, but the company doesn't have to recognise it. Fruitless exercise especially in multinational pharma.

Hoboo

Strumms wrote: »

If an employer asked me to take a percentage wages hit in these circumstances and btw there is no fûcking way I’m taking a 20% hit for starters but if they said help us out and take 10-15% Id be wanting the following provided in writing....

1) the previous three years financial results to justify it.

2) ‘documented’ projected sales figures for this year in light of the health crisis and a comparison with last years. If they expect to be 10% down and the employees are being asked to take 20% in cuts ? NO, not happening..

3) written guarantees that the following financial year I’m getting my wages restored with an extra % on top.

4) if they expected to get hit 10% we take 5% with the guarantee pay is restored within a year followed by x% increase.

If I’m a car salesman... I make 40,000 a year and keep 5% of revenue I sell.. together that’s an annual gross income say 50,000 euros, I bust my hump to sell sell sell, every technique and trick in the book, I kiss more ass than the owner of a donkey sanctuary...I like the job, the company, the money.... if the incentive is withdrawn... the employee who was hard working, who to going over and above was the daily standard, who was incentivized by all the above might just turn....

The early starts to meet a potential client before they need to be in work ? Nope.. hey contract says 9-5

The trip to the UK that is needed for training on a Saturday, your day off ? Yes I know I went last year, ‘I’ was flexible, now I’ve something on, family, sorry.

And as a HR director you'd be first on the redundancy list.

Seve OB

Strumms wrote: »

If an employer asked me to take a percentage wages hit in these circumstances and btw there is no fûcking way I’m taking a 20% hit for starters but if they said help us out and take 10-15% Id be wanting the following provided in writing....

1) the previous three years financial results to justify it.

2) ‘documented’ projected sales figures for this year in light of the health crisis and a comparison with last years. If they expect to be 10% down and the employees are being asked to take 20% in cuts ? NO, not happening..

3) written guarantees that the following financial year I’m getting my wages restored with an extra % on top.

4) if they expected to get hit 10% we take 5% with the guarantee pay is restored within a year followed by x% increase.

If I’m a car salesman... I make 40,000 a year and keep 5% of revenue I sell.. together that’s an annual gross income say 50,000 euros, I bust my hump to sell sell sell, every technique and trick in the book, I kiss more ass than the owner of a donkey sanctuary...I like the job, the company, the money.... if the incentive is withdrawn... the employee who was hard working, who to going over and above was the daily standard, who was incentivized by all the above might just turn....

The early starts to meet a potential client before they need to be in work ? Nope.. hey contract says 9-5

The trip to the UK that is needed for training on a Saturday, your day off ? Yes I know I went last year, ‘I’ was flexible, now I’ve something on, family, sorry.

I’d say they’ll be lining the streets to offer you a job.

Strumms

Hoboo wrote: »

And as a HR director you'd be first on the redundancy list.

A predictable response but unfortunately that wouldn’t meet the criteria. There has to be a demonstrated and fair process as regards WHO gets selected. If I met that, happy days, I’d have found myself having to say toodles to a company who I didn’t respect and I’d be xxxxx thousand the richer. I never did meet so many as a single HR person who I trust.

Strumms

Seve OB wrote: »

I’d say they’ll be lining the streets to offer you a job.

Well, I don’t know about lining the streets but my record shows that for every job I interviewed for an offer followed. Call that lining the streets or lining my inbox.

Problem is there is still all be it an ever dwindling number of people in the workforce who just from experience and their upbringing expect when an employer asks them to jump, the answer is how high.

Hoboo

Strumms wrote: »

A predictable response but unfortunately that wouldn’t meet the criteria. There has to be a demonstrated and fair process as regards WHO gets selected. If I met that, happy days, I’d have found myself having to say toodles to a company who I didn’t respect and I’d be xxxxx thousand the richer. I never did meet so many as a single HR monkey who I trust.

If you think a HR monkey (clearly ignorant to what an shrm practitioner is) as you put it wouldn't have you out the door first pick and not be able to demonstrate fair process and procedure was adhered to, and provided, regardless of the fact, you're in dreamland. It's done all the time, identifying talent and disruptors is a key business and HR strategy. Disposal of bad eggs to put it bluntly is often easier than retaining talent. Being able to demonstrate equity is never an issue.

With your attitude the only interview I'd imagine you'll be having this year is an exit one.

Strumms

Hoboo wrote: »

If you think a HR monkey (clearly ignorant to what an shrm practitioner is) as you put it wouldn't have you out the door first pick and not be able to demonstrate fair process and procedure was adhered to, and provided, regardless of the fact, you're in dreamland. It's done all the time, identifying talent and disruptors is a key business and HR strategy. Disposal of bad eggs to put it bluntly is often easier than retaining talent. Being able to demonstrate equity is never an issue.

With your attitude the only interview I'd imagine you'll be having this year is an exit one.

Practitioner ? Maybe practical joker might be more in your line. Your post above is very indicative of certain HR attitudes especially those at amateur hour companies like obviously the one you take so much glee in representing but what might look like standing up in an office arena wouldn’t in a courtroom so I’d advise caution, while not every employee has time or the ability to document and so on, i most certainly do and have done, since I witnessed a certain unpleasant occurrence befall an old colleague of shaft dot com proportions by your lot and management.

antimatterx

Hoboo wrote: »

And as a HR director you'd be first on the redundancy list.

This is why HR is such a BS job. You think you're important and love to meddle with everything when nothing really concerns you!

Strumms

antimatterx wrote: »

This is why HR is such a BS job. You think you're important and love to meddle with everything when nothing really concerns you!

It is, a real head scratcher of a position. Always seemed to attract the very worst humans in every aspect, I can think of no other position like it, probably with one exception I might add. I’ve encountered good the bad and the great in management, in trainers, line employees etc...The limited experience I had with HR showed that it was really only BS merchants and untrustworthy backstabbers.

It was quite clear any talent wasn’t necessary or desirable. They have zero clue or interest ever to garner real time knowledge about employees, dodgy employers, the machinations of the jobs, challenges, industry and people around them. Always walked a bit funny too, that was probably from spending 32 hours a week waddling around with various management puppeteer hands up their ego as they try and screw those around them. Generally not the cleverest either, stay one step ahead, be aware of their ‘true’ role in the company. Certainly isn’t to help employees or to act as a fairness buffer as some market it.

HR's job is to do what management tell them to do so it saves management scum from having to do the dirty work.

HR can be truly obnoxious though.

johnb25

Strumms wrote: »

If an employer asked me to take a percentage wages hit in these circumstances and btw there is no fûcking way I’m taking a 20% hit for starters but if they said help us out and take 10-15% Id be wanting the following provided in writing....

1) the previous three years financial results to justify it.

2) ‘documented’ projected sales figures for this year in light of the health crisis and a comparison with last years. If they expect to be 10% down and the employees are being asked to take 20% in cuts ? NO, not happening..

3) written guarantees that the following financial year I’m getting my wages restored with an extra % on top.

4) if they expected to get hit 10% we take 5% with the guarantee pay is restored within a year followed by x% increase.

If I’m a car salesman... I make 40,000 a year and keep 5% of revenue I sell.. together that’s an annual gross income say 50,000 euros, I bust my hump to sell sell sell, every technique and trick in the book, I kiss more ass than the owner of a donkey sanctuary...I like the job, the company, the money.... if the incentive is withdrawn... the employee who was hard working, who to going over and above was the daily standard, who was incentivized by all the above might just turn....

The early starts to meet a potential client before they need to be in work ? Nope.. hey contract says 9-5

The trip to the UK that is needed for training on a Saturday, your day off ? Yes I know I went last year, ‘I’ was flexible, now I’ve something on, family, sorry.

I don't think anyone who demanded this information would be able to understand it if they got it.

Seve OB

Strumms wrote: »

It is, a real head scratcher of a position. Always seemed to attract the very worst humans in every aspect, I can think of no other position like it, probably with one exception I might add. I’ve encountered good the bad and the great in management, in trainers, line employees etc...The limited experience I had with HR showed that it was really only BS merchants and untrustworthy backstabbers.

It was quite clear any talent wasn’t necessary or desirable. They have zero clue or interest ever to garner real time knowledge about employees, dodgy employers, the machinations of the jobs, challenges, industry and people around them. Always walked a bit funny too, that was probably from spending 32 hours a week waddling around with various management puppeteer hands up their ego as they try and screw those around them. Generally not the cleverest either, stay one step ahead, be aware of their ‘true’ role in the company. Certainly isn’t to help employees or to act as a fairness buffer as some market it.

who pi55ed on your cornflakes?

i'm guessing it was some HR dude

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

It is, a real head scratcher of a position. Always seemed to attract the very worst humans in every aspect, I can think of no other position like it, probably with one exception I might add. I’ve encountered good the bad and the great in management, in trainers, line employees etc...The limited experience I had with HR showed that it was really only BS merchants and untrustworthy backstabbers.

It was quite clear any talent wasn’t necessary or desirable. They have zero clue or interest ever to garner real time knowledge about employees, dodgy employers, the machinations of the jobs, challenges, industry and people around them. Always walked a bit funny too, that was probably from spending 32 hours a week waddling around with various management puppeteer hands up their ego as they try and screw those around them. Generally not the cleverest either, stay one step ahead, be aware of their ‘true’ role in the company. Certainly isn’t to help employees or to act as a fairness buffer as some market it.

You are strident in your opinions, it looks almost like you are overcompensating, have HR been putting you down?

Most employers would have a bit of a giggle if you asked for the info you listed in an earlier post. But go ahead, tell us what they say.

Strumms

Seve OB wrote: »

who pi55ed on your cornflakes?

i'm guessing it was some HR dude

I prefer frosties, with extra sugar and no piss.

Strumms

johnb25 wrote: »

I don't think anyone who demanded this information would be able to understand it if they got it.

Not in its entirety but to access somebody who could wouldn’t be impossible. You are holding the employer to account.

davo2001

davo2001 wrote: »

Hi,

Employed by a large phara multinational on a permanent basis for a number of years.

We have all been asked to take a 20% pay cut (while working the same amount) due to "global issues".

We are not part of a union, can they make us do this?

Yes, a company can force someone to take a pay cut.

A company can also change your work conditions whether you like it or not.

When you sign a contract you allow the company to make changes to that contract and legally you are only obliged to be given reasonable notification by the company.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, a company can force someone to take a pay cut.

A company can also change your work conditions whether you like it or not.

When you sign a contract you allow the company to make changes to that contract and legally you are only obliged to be given reasonable notification by the company.

There are many things an employee can try before going straight into bending over though.

ReginaldSmythV

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

There are many things an employee can try before going straight into bending over though.

There's absolutely nothing and no legal route an employee can go through that would cause them to win as long as they were given reasonable notification.

As long as there is reasonable notification of such change the Employer is perfectly entitled to reduce pay and for no reason at all.

And conditions of employment can change too with reasonable notice, so if for instance in your contract it stated that you had to work 9-5 Monday to Friday and the company wanted you to work 9-5 Monday - Saturday or Monday - Friday + Sunday then there's nothing anyone can do about it because in Ireland the legal working week is 48 hrs And the Working week is Sunday - Sunday.

Most contracts especially form big corporations reserve the right to change the terms and conditions of the contract with a reasonable notice period which you sign if you want a job.