Dept of Social Protection: We won’t report illegal migrants who claim dole

DelaneyIn

The Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection wishes to confirm that there are no plans in place to share data we receive as part of an immigrant’s application for a #COVID19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment with GNIB or the Department of Justice and Equality.

These are extraordinary times, and all that, but still, there’s something jarring even for the likes of me, who’s the resident softie on immigration around here, about the state handing out cash to people who have no business being here in the first place.

We’re not talking about asylum seekers here, or people who have migrated legitimately from other countries. We’re talking about people who don’t want their data shared with the Department of Justice or the immigration authorities because they are not supposed to be here and are at risk of being deported because they have broken the law.

And we’re going to give them €350 a week.

A few weeks ago, a similar announcement was made in respect of healthcare – but that one made sense. It basically said that if you were an illegal immigrant, then no questions would be asked about your status if you presented with Coronavirus symptoms. That’s perfectly sensible, because we don’t want people running around the country hiding their symptoms and infecting others – or dying – because of the fear they have of the immigration laws.

But this social welfare announcement? That’s on another level entirely.

Pandemic Unemployment Payment and undocumented workers

We have received confirmation that people who are currently undocumented will be considered eligible for pandemic unemployment payments provided that they have a PPSN. The information will not be shared with the Department of Justice.

Likewise, anyone who is undocumented and who believes that they have COVID-19 symptoms can engage with health services without concern about their immigration status.

https://nascireland.org/know-your-rights/covid-19-social-welfare-updates

https://gript.ie/social-protection-migrants-dole/

Absolutely disgraceful and just makes a mockery of our welfare system. Fraudulent individuals making claims should be reported and dealt with appropriately with severe financial penalties and deportations.

Danzy

Aiding and abetting.

Horsebox9000

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://gript.ie/social-protection-migrants-dole/

Absolutely disgraceful and just makes a mockery of our welfare system. Fraudulent individuals making claims should be reported and dealt with appropriately with severe financial penalties and deportations.

Would have been easy to do If we were ok with the PSC card. Can't have it all

Yurt2

Now this is a bad idea.

suicide_circus

why would they announce that? whatever about not reporting them, they're actively inviting illegal immigrants to further defraud the state by telling them its safe to do so. a strange move when the economy and public finances are on the floor.

Sardonicat

How can a illegal immigrant get the covid payment without evidence of being temporarily laid off? Surely you need to supply your pps number and details of employment for corroboration?

DelaneyIn

Sardonicat wrote: »

How can a illegal immigrant get the covid payment without evidence of being temporarily laid off? Surely you need to supply your pps number and details of employment for corroboration?

A lot of illegals seems to be overstayers.

See this recent article for an example;

Most of those given permission to remain in Ireland are former language school students who continued working here after their visas expired.

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/some-2000-undocumented-migrants-paid-350-fee-to-stay-here-af99f7fd

So they would have their PPSN from when they first legally entered the state.

Sardonicat

DelaneyIn wrote: »

A lot of illegals seems to be overstayers.

See this recent article for an example;



https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/some-2000-undocumented-migrants-paid-350-fee-to-stay-here-af99f7fd

So they would have their PPSN from when they first legally entered the state.

But no record of employment when that PPS is keyed into the system!

DelaneyIn

Sardonicat wrote: »

But no record of employment when that PPS is keyed into the system!

They’d still be registered with revenue. Revenue doesnt cross check with INIS for active PPSN without working permissions.

Sardonicat

DelaneyIn wrote: »

They’d still be registered with revenue. Revenue doesnt cross check With INIS for active PPSN without working permissions.

Yes, but your social insurance deductions are recorded by dps. How do you think they know if you are entitled to claim on your contributions or not?

Rodin

And all the while taxpayers living in the north are being asked to refund the payment.

jimmyrustle

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://gript.ie/social-protection-migrants-dole/

Absolutely disgraceful and just makes a mockery of our welfare system. Fraudulent individuals making claims should be reported and dealt with appropriately with severe financial penalties and deportations.

I'd be fairly conservative on migration, but hear me out.

It's like a low thousands number of people, claiming 350 per week, for likely somewhere between 6 weeks (optimistic) and 3 months.

Likely mostly Chinese, Filipinos, South Americans, the bulk of them probably restaurant workers or delivery drivers.

There are 6000 odd people in direct provision, the vast, vast majority with an illegitimate claim, getting 40 plus quid a week, plus the costs of keeping the DP system going, plus their legal fees, their medical cards, their travel, their appeals. And at the end of it all most of them will neither be granted asylum nor deported, but rather be issued a concession that they have been here so long in the system we will grant a subsidary residence to get them out of the way.

Afterwards is the time for HAP and social housing. For some, a permanent transfer to the 205 p/w dole, or disability if they claim years in DP have left them too depressed to work.

And don't even start me about the Roma gypsies. 90 plus percent unemployment rate, the majority in receipt of some sort of welfare.


The lads in my two favourite Chinese that have been shut nearly a month now are welcome to the 350 tbh.

enricoh

I had to check the date of the opening post to see if it was the 1st of April.
As a country we deserve everything we get for tolerating this crap. Why stop at e350 a week, sign em up for social housing as well, it'll help bankrupt this welfare state a bit faster!

sydthebeat

the agenda is literally dripping off that website

delivering news and analysis without the liberal filter

nuff said

Jinglejangle69

I thought you have to be working it claim it as there has been people rejected as they are on job seekers.

jimmyrustle

sydthebeat wrote: »

the agenda is literally dripping off that website



nuff said

God forbid we don't rely on such impartial outlets at Telesur English, the Morning Star and, let's be honest, the Irish Times.

I'm always amazed at the IT New to the Parish stories where asylum seekers openly state that they haven't actually fled any sort of danger in their homeland. Seems you don't even have to bother embellishing a story.

Yurt2

sydthebeat wrote: »

the agenda is literally dripping off that website



nuff said

This topic is worthy of discussion without regard to who delivered it to your attention.

Derail attempt

jimmyrustle

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I thought you have to be working it claim it as there has been people rejected as they are on job seekers.

Most illegals working. Plenty with forms of permission to stay visas or EU free movement rights are not working.

There are plenty of reforms needed to overhaul our welfare system.

- Disability entitlements
- Multi generational dole dependency
- the direct provision racket
- EU nationals coming here with no intent of working

A few thousand Chinese fast food cooks and Brazillian delivery drivers who are now entitled to 350 quid for six to 12 weeks are very, very bottom of the pile.

rgossip30

jimmyrustle wrote: »

I'd be fairly conservative on migration, but hear me out.

It's like a low thousands number of people, claiming 350 per week, for likely somewhere between 6 weeks (optimistic) and 3 months.

Likely mostly Chinese, Filipinos, South Americans, the bulk of them probably restaurant workers or delivery drivers.

There are 6000 odd people in direct provision, the vast, vast majority with an illegitimate claim, getting 40 plus quid a week, plus the costs of keeping the DP system going, plus their legal fees, their medical cards, their travel, their appeals. And at the end of it all most of them will neither be granted asylum nor deported, but rather be issued a concession that they have been here so long in the system we will grant a subsidary residence to get them out of the way.

Afterwards is the time for HAP and social housing. For some, a permanent transfer to the 205 p/w dole, or disability if they claim years in DP have left them too depressed to work.

And don't even start me about the Roma gypsies. 90 plus percent unemployment rate, the majority in receipt of some sort of welfare.


The lads in my two favourite Chinese that have been shut nearly a month now are welcome to the 350 tbh.

God bless ya you have a heart of gold .

DelaneyIn

sydthebeat wrote: »

the agenda is literally dripping off that website



nuff said

Are they wrong? The information in the article came from an official source.

https://twitter.com/welfare_ie/status/1245639097630085120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1245639097630085120&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgript.ie%2Fsocial-protection-migrants-dole%2F

Where you from?

End the english language school scam and cut funding to the bastard NGOs

sydthebeat

Yurt! wrote: »

This topic is worthy of discussion without regard to who delivered it to your attention.

Derail attempt

of course it is....

but lets be clear and honest here .. there is NOWHERE in that welfare.ie tweet that says:

"We’re talking about people who don’t want their data shared with the Department of Justice or the immigration authorities because they are not supposed to be here and are at risk of being deported because they have broken the law."

the agenda of the author has extrapolated the above based on nothing but their own biases.

This is nothing more than an opinion piece.

Sardonicat

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Are they wrong? The information in the article came from an official source.

https://twitter.com/welfare_ie/status/1245639097630085120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1245639097630085120&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgript.ie%2Fsocial-protection-migrants-dole%2F

The source says nothing about illegal immigrants.

jimmyrustle

rgossip30 wrote: »

God bless ya you have a heart of gold .

Let's assume 10,000 illegals claim this payment, and let's go to to the most pessimistic end of predictions, for 10 weeks.

That's 35 million euro.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/final-cost-of-providing-direct-provision-accommodation-for-asylum-seekers-will-be-60m-over-budget-956042.html

Direct provision, in 2019, cost somewhere around 130 million. That doesn't count the welfare or legal payments.

We took in, or are taking in, 5000 Syrian refugees, and are giving each family a house. The funds are mostly coming from the Rebuilding Ireland allocation.

Our 100,000 long term unemployed take in 20 million per week, over a billion per year. Add on to that people on fraudulent disability, people who work a bare minimum of hours and get a top up from the social etc etc.


Look at the real problems rather than some down on his luck Chinese lad who normally works 70 hours a week.

Yurt2

sydthebeat wrote: »

of course it is....

but lets be clear and honest here .. there is NOWHERE in that welfare.ie tweet that says:

"We’re talking about people who don’t want their data shared with the Department of Justice or the immigration authorities because they are not supposed to be here and are at risk of being deported because they have broken the law."

the agenda of the author has extrapolated the above based on nothing but their own biases.

This is nothing more than an opinion piece.

No sh*t, but it completely undermines the purpose of our immigration system if people who shouldn't even have access to the labour market in the first instance, have invited themselves in and are content to stay without permission are being pretty much prompted into applying for welfare in a time of national crisis that will buckle our economy.

As someone mentioned in the Twitter thread under the Department's announcement, Scott Morrison PM of Aus gently suggested now may be a good time for illegals to return to their home country, as they'll be prioritising Aus citizens and those with permission to reside in-country.

I can't think of a fairer thing for a national leader to say.

This is a conversation worth having.

DelaneyIn

Sardonicat wrote: »

The source says nothing about illegal immigrants.

From NASC Ireland.

Pandemic Unemployment Payment and undocumented workers

We have received confirmation that people who are currently undocumented will be considered eligible for pandemic unemployment payments provided that they have a PPSN. The information will not be shared with the Department of Justice.

Likewise, anyone who is undocumented and who believes that they have COVID-19 symptoms can engage with health services without concern about their immigration status.

https://nascireland.org/know-your-rights/covid-19-social-welfare-updates

jimmyrustle

Yurt! wrote: »

As someone mentioned in the Twitter thread under the Department's announcement, Scott Morrison PM of Aus gently suggested now may be a good time for illegals to return to their home country, as they'll be prioritising Aus citizens and those with permission to reside in-country.

I can't think of a fairer thing for a national leader to say.

Australia is another country full of native welfare lifers that would do well to have a strictly criteria'd amnesty. I'd like to see him get some unemployable bogan named Jaxon to man a 7 11 at 3am.

Yurt2

jimmyrustle wrote: »

Australia is another country full of native welfare lifers that would do well to have a strictly criteria'd amnesty. I'd like to see him get some unemployable bogan named Jaxon to man a 7 11 at 3am.

This ain't about Jaxon or Jacinta.

It's not credible or sustainable that someone that has elected to ignore immigration laws is invited to apply for welfare at a time when we're staring into the economic abyss. They'll be on the flight home if sh*t really hits the fan and it's our country to look after whatever comes.

This crisis is expensive enough, and this is really one of those times where we should use that awful phrase of "looking after our own" first.

JohnnyFlash

Yurt! wrote: »

This ain't about Jaxon or Jacinta.

It's not credible or sustainable that someone that has elected to ignore immigration laws is invited to apply for welfare.

This crisis is expensive enough, and this is really one of those times where we should use that awful phrase of "looking after our own" first.

If someone is here illegally and no longer has work then what would you suggest the State do with them? Deport them, give them accommodation and 3 meals a day, etc etc?

CrankyHaus

Where you from? wrote: »

End the english language school scam and cut funding to the bastard NGOs

What a disgusting suggestion!

Some of our most vulnerable important people, already on massive state pensions, need their income from visa mill English colleges to make ends meet stay on the pigs back.

Like former FF Minister for Education Batt O'Keefe, President of Eden College shut down by immigration officials.

In fairness to Batt, he says he was just an advisor on policy with no involvement in day to day running of the college and nobody was more surprised than him at reported irregularities there. After all his son was also the accountant so how could he have known anything about the place.

The fact that Eden College was only closed after it's sister college in England was named and shamed in a BBC Panorama Investigation shows just how our Eagle-eyed authorities are policing this sector with the utmost vigilance.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/eden-college-owner-denies-trousering-student-fees-1.1807006

Phoebas

Yurt! wrote: »

No sh*t, but it completely undermines the purpose of our immigration system if people who shouldn't even have access to the labour market in the first instance, have invited themselves in and are content to stay without permission are being pretty much prompted into applying for welfare in a time of national crisis that will buckle our economy.

As someone mentioned in the Twitter thread under the Department's announcement, Scott Morrison PM of Aus gently suggested now may be a good time for illegals to return to their home country, as they'll be prioritising Aus citizens and those with permission to reside in-country.

I can't think of a fairer thing for a national leader to say.

This is a conversation worth having.

That doesn't make any sense at all; it just isn't a real world suggestion that illegals could or would return home in the middle of a global pandemic.

We need to keep our eye on the ball and that is that people are staying in unless it's necessary to be out and people aren't left destitute during the crisis.

If some relatively small amount of money goes into the wrong hands in the meantime what of it? We can organise a good old immigrant hunt after the crisis has passed.