Dept of Social Protection: We won’t report illegal migrants who claim dole

Eric Cartman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they’re undocumented, how would they have a PPSN?

Personally, I’ve no problem with everyone being supported at this time, no matter their age, gender or origin.

Undocumented is just the leftbook word for illegal immigrant, its to conjure images of ‘ohh they forgot to fill out a form” rather than they got involved with human traffickers and illegally entered a state to commit additional crime and welfare fraud.

biko

Undocumented means "I know I couldn't get on a plane from XXX to Dublin without a passport, but once we landed I cannot for the life of me find it anywhere.
I can now has asylum please?"

rgossip30

Deleted User wrote: »

If they’re undocumented, how would they have a PPSN?

Personally, I’ve no problem with everyone being supported at this time, no matter their age, gender or origin.

They are english students on expired visas employers who facilitate in getting PPS numbers and those who sold their PPS numbers on leaving Ireland .
This may even be extended to sex workers who can claim to be self employed and vulnerable .

The present position for those looking for PPS numbers re COVID-19 !!
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/personal_public_service_number.html#l34075

Would you give those on contributory pensions who have worked most of their lives a 350 payment instead of 234 euro ?

rgossip30

rgossip30 wrote: »

They are english students on expired visas employers who facilitate in getting PPS numbers and those who sold their PPS numbers on leaving Ireland .

The present position for those looking for PPS numbers re COVID-19 !!
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/personal_public_service_number.html#l34075

Would you give those on contributory pensions who have worked most of their lives a 350 payment instead of 234 euro ?

No. They’re not entitled to an emergency payment. They’re already catered for.

Dylan94

Personally I am all for these people getting both the emergency payment and access to free health care. I think that anyone who applies should get access for the duration of the emergency without question and fear of future repercussions.

Not because I am particularly worried about these individuals but because it is in the interest of our cou try to do so. If these people aren't able to get access to health care or income supports then they are going to continue trying to work or find a new job even if infected with Covid 19 and as a result spreading it to others. Or since it is not possible for these people to leave the country then they would be forced to turn to crime to stay alive.

standardg60

Dylan94 wrote: »

Personally I am all for these people getting both the emergency payment and access to free health care. I think that anyone who applies should get access for the duration of the emergency without question and fear of future repercussions.

Not because I am particularly worried about these individuals but because it is in the interest of our cou try to do so. If these people aren't able to get access to health care or income supports then they are going to continue trying to work or find a new job even if infected with Covid 19 and as a result spreading it to others. Or since it is not possible for these people to leave the country then they would be forced to turn to crime to stay alive.

Or starve.
Or maybe wait until they have to steal Trevelyan's corn, that prison ship is still waiting isn't it?

rgossip30

Dylan94 wrote: »

Personally I am all for these people getting both the emergency payment and access to free health care. I think that anyone who applies should get access for the duration of the emergency without question and fear of future repercussions.

Not because I am particularly worried about these individuals but because it is in the interest of our cou try to do so. If these people aren't able to get access to health care or income supports then they are going to continue trying to work or find a new job even if infected with Covid 19 and as a result spreading it to others. Or since it is not possible for these people to leave the country then they would be forced to turn to crime to stay alive.

They can leave after the lockdown . The situation could arise that they lose the job permanently what then , jobseekers or an amnesty where does this charity end .There are many irish citizens on the dole who could easily do these jobs . Think of the money that will be borrowed to pay for this and the increased repayments . The next budget will be interesting .

Blueshoe

rgossip30 wrote: »

They can leave after the lockdown . The situation could arise that they lose the job permanently what then , jobseekers or an amnesty where does this charity end .

But they won't be. They aren't reported.

Chinasea

And the majority of the begrudgers on here, want their fast food, deliveridoo & clean my poo workers, needless to say paid if even the minimum wage whilst living in cramped sub standard conditions to enable your disposable lifestyles.

DelaneyIn

Chinasea wrote: »

And the majority of the begrudgers on here, want their fast food, deliveridoo & clean my poo workers, needless to say paid if even the minimum wage whilst living in cramped sub standard conditions to enable your disposable lifestyles.

It's always fascinating watching people use logic very similar to anti-abolitionist logic in the argument against deporting illegal immigrants.

I can clean my own home and cook my own food. I don’t need underpaid and poorly looked after illegal immigrants to meet my basic needs.

JustAThought

Maybe someone should write to the minister or the DPP and ask what kind of shambles this will leave our system and future prosecutions for welfare fraud in.

One law for legal citizens.
Another set of laws and standards for illegal immigrants and social welfare cheats and their ‘employers’

Eric Cartman

JustAThought wrote: »

Maybe someone should write to the minister or the DPP and ask what kind of shambles this will leave our system and future prosecutions for welfare fraud in.

One law for legal citizens.
Another set of laws and standards for illegal immigrants and social welfare cheats and their ‘employers’

I'm just waiting till we're in remission and some government funded quango puts out a PR piece pledging that we take more foreigners because of covid economic destruction. Im already waiting on the plane of orphaned 'children' , all male with full beards and deep voices showing up and the piece in the Irish times welcoming them to lovely apartments in Roscommon while Irish people queue at the capuchin centre for a tin of beans.

n97 mini

Dylan94 wrote: »

Personally I am all for these people getting both the emergency payment and access to free health care.

No such thing. Medical staff and drugs aren't free. Someone always pays.

ILoveYourVibes

Its a pandemic ..i don't care.

Dylan94

n97 mini wrote: »

No such thing. Medical staff and drugs aren't free. Someone always pays.

But its free to the end user at the point of use. As in you do not have to pay money if you are ill with Covid19.

dresden8

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://nascireland.org/know-your-rights/covid-19-social-welfare-updates

https://gript.ie/social-protection-migrants-dole/

Absolutely disgraceful and just makes a mockery of our welfare system. Fraudulent individuals making claims should be reported and dealt with appropriately with severe financial penalties and deportations.

The point is they are not forced to go to work and spread Covid-19. So as not to kill you, your family or your friends.

A public health inspector once told me the biggest threat to your health in a food scene is not rats or ****, it's sick employees who don't get sick pay. They are forced to come into work and infect your ass because their sick pay conditions are sh1te.

Big picture people.

Sardonicat

Sardonicat wrote: »

Yes, but your social insurance deductions are recorded by dps. How do you think they know if you are entitled to claim on your contributions or not?

Immigration doesn't track via ppsn and revenue / social don't provide tax / claim information as standard.

You can have a ppsn, work and pay tax but not have valid immigration status.

n97 mini

n97 mini wrote: »

No such thing. Medical staff and drugs aren't free. Someone always pays.

These people are paying tax though

Blueshoe

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Immigration doesn't track via ppsn and revenue / social don't provide tax / claim information as standard.

You can have a ppsn, work and pay tax but not have valid immigration status.

What is the Garda line on this or is it not a priority now?
Is it ever a priority?

Although allowing people to work and pay tax yet not having to give them any social welfare rights is a pretty sweet deal for the state. Since the Garda are a wing of the state do they turn a blind eye?

golondrinas

Yurt! wrote: »

I know this sounds hard hearted but they know where the airport is.

We really can't afford to pay for people we didn't give permission to be here in the first instance. They are fully aware of their status.

We can keep the airports open to welcome home returning Irish but can’t use same airport to get rid of scammers and chancers. Double standards what.

Eric Cartman

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Immigration doesn't track via ppsn and revenue / social don't provide tax / claim information as standard.

You can have a ppsn, work and pay tax but not have valid immigration status.

How, in the 21st century is that even possible. You shouldnt be able to walk into a government building, hospital or welfare office with an expired visa without some gardai in a van taking you away to send you straight back where you came from.

rgossip30

The numbers allocated PPS numbers in 2018 63% employed some the remainder are students but no detail on the rest .
This does not include children born in Ireland who are automatically given a number .

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/over-123-000-foreign-nationals-issued-with-pps-numbers-in-2018-1.4062956

conorhal

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How, in the 21st century is that even possible. You shouldnt be able to walk into a government building, hospital or welfare office with an expired visa without some gardai in a van taking you away to send you straight back where you came from.

You just can't help but feel like this is a systemic loophole created intentionally to allow exploitation, the US operates the same loophole because linking the systems would mean farmers with crops to pick and rich people with Mexican nannies and cleaners would be inconvenienced by having to follow the law.
That and the fact that the ususal suspects would complain that illegals being subject to the same laws as everybody else is somehow 'racist'.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How, in the 21st century is that even possible. You shouldnt be able to walk into a government building, hospital or welfare office with an expired visa without some gardai in a van taking you away to send you straight back where you came from.

Because ppsn is not and cannot be used for any other purpose. It's a tax number not a personal identity number.

Gardai are immigration but there's a limited amount of them. You need to be a trained officer to enforce immigration.

And in regards the Garda in the van. You are assuming we A, have the manpower and B, that manpower is trained to drive a van. Both unlikely

golondrinas

wiggle16 wrote: »

1) Irish people engage in all of these things too.

2) Absolutely nothing to do with what JohnnyFlash was saying. I'm at a loss as to the relevance.

3) People who derive their income from these activities are, I would say, rather unlikely to be operating a charge to PRSI on this income, and so they will not be able to claim the covid 19 payment...

1) Irish people engage in all of these things too.
Can’t figure this answer that keeps being trotted out. That makes it ok so....?.

golondrinas

rgossip30 wrote: »

They are english students on expired visas employers who facilitate in getting PPS numbers and those who sold their PPS numbers on leaving Ireland .
This may even be extended to sex workers who can claim to be self employed and vulnerable .

The present position for those looking for PPS numbers re COVID-19 !!
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/personal_public_service_number.html#l34075

Would you give those on contributory pensions who have worked most of their lives a 350 payment instead of 234 euro ?

My neighbour lives on the oap of around 234 euros. Worked all his life.You can just rock up and get 350€. That seems fair.

conorhal

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Because ppsn is not and cannot be used for any other purpose. It's a tax number not a personal identity number.

And these systems can't be linked to ensure compliance with the law of the land because?

Gardai are immigration but there's a limited amount of them. You need to be a trained officer to enforce immigration.

And in regards the Garda in the van. You are assuming we A, have the manpower and B, that manpower is trained to drive a van. Both unlikely

Spare us oh Lord from the 'it can't be done, because computer says no' people that ensure nothing is ever done with an ounce of competence.
Link the systems and the 'difficulty' you speak of is eliminated with same ease that a Guard can check if your car reg is linked to your tax and insurance.

It's not rocket science.

Lux23

They don't link the systems because they don't want to, our economy relies on people that can work for a very low wage whether they are people signing on and working or people on expired visas working illegally and paying no tax.

conorhal

Lux23 wrote: »

They don't link the systems because they don't want to, our economy relies on people that can work for a very low wage whether they are people signing on and working or people on expired visas working illegally and paying no tax.

And nothing will change because the employers that benefit can lobby government and have their ear, while the people that are most effected are those least likely to vote, and even if they did vote, the parties that claim to represent them would recoil in horror at the thought of prioritising the working class over migrants.
The system is rigged and it all just makes me think that it's been far too long since a politician had to fear a literal guillotine...

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

And these systems can't be linked to ensure compliance with the law of the land because?

Because as I already said but you seem to have ignored, your ppsn number can according to the law of the land, only be used for tax and social welfare. Just as the data protection commissioner stopped agencies including Gardai from using ps cards as ID. Just because you want it another way or indeed, it makes sense doesn't make it so or mean we can just work away.

conorhal wrote: »

Spare us oh Lord from the 'it can't be done, because computer says no' people that ensure nothing is ever done with an ounce of competence.

Wtf? The LAW says it can't be done. Gardai cannot, by law is ppsn numbers or access social welfare records without just cause and satisfying data protection. As for the Gardai sitting outside in can. The simple current maths of the situation says it cannot be done. You want all Gardai sitting outside dole offices to arrest illegals? Fine but accept that this will mean none on the beat or responding to any other calls until recruitment has resulted in a significant boost in manpower, training has resulted in more Gardai being trained van drivers and procurement meaning more Vans.

conorhal wrote: »

It's not rocket science.

Correct, it's law and maths