Dept of Social Protection: We won’t report illegal migrants who claim dole

Eric Cartman

Lux23 wrote: »

They don't link the systems because they don't want to, our economy relies on people that can work for a very low wage whether they are people signing on and working or people on expired visas working illegally and paying no tax.

No we don’t . Only criminals and shady employers rely on illegal immigrants and people working on the side of the dole, should be eradicated.

conorhal

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Because as I already said but you seem to have ignored, your ppsn number can according to the law of the land, only be used for tax and social welfare. Just as the data protection commissioner stopped agencies including Gardai from using ps cards as ID. Just because you want it another way or indeed, it makes sense doesn't make it so or mean we can just work away.



Wtf? The LAW says it can't be done. Gardai cannot, by law is ppsn numbers or access social welfare records without just cause and satisfying data protection. As for the Gardai sitting outside in can. The simple current maths of the situation says it cannot be done. You want all Gardai sitting outside dole offices to arrest illegals? Fine but accept that this will mean none on the beat or responding to any other calls until recruitment has resulted in a significant boost in manpower, training has resulted in more Gardai being trained van drivers and procurement meaning more Vans.



Correct, it's law and maths

Is this law immutable? Is this law a law of physics?



No. It could be changed, tomorrow. A fact that seems beyond your comprehension.

There is a big difference between can't be done and won't be done, clearly you just don't want it to be done. The question is why?

conorhal

conorhal wrote: »

Is this law immutable? Is this law a law of physics?



No. It could be changed, tomorrow. A fact that seems beyond your comprehension.

There is a big difference between can't be done and won't be done, clearly you just don't want it to be done. The question is why?

Actually the question was why it's not already happening and I answered and even used the word CURRENTLY so don't try and move the goalposts now to justify your rant.

It is currently not legal to do what you want Gardai to do. It is currently not possible for Gardai to access revenue or welfare systems. It's currently not realistic due to manpower and resource issues for Gardai to mount such an operation. So no, it can't be done currently.

That's the simple reality at this moment in time. What may or may not happen in the future is pure conjecture.

AlekSmart

golondrinas wrote: »

We can keep the airports open to welcome home returning Irish but can’t use same airport to get rid of scammers and chancers. Double standards what.

An interesting point that,given the drip of information on Charter flight/s into Dublin from Sofia,of all places,apparently chartered by large Fruit & Veg producers in North County Dublin...seems the Boeing 737 aircraft flew out empty from Dublin on 13th April,to Sofia,but returned jammed to the bulkheads with 189 enthusiastic Bulgarian(?) fruit pickers ,all clutching letters from their new "employer"

Seems the flight numbers and aircraft type all check out,but very little other confirmation to be found.....so !..... Could this be true ? or is it Fake-News,or has Ireland actually still got a Labour Shortage

Any ideas ?

Kivaro

AlekSmart wrote: »

An interesting point that,given the drip of information on Charter flight/s into Dublin from Sofia,of all places,apparently chartered by large Fruit & Veg producers in North County Dublin...seems the Boeing 737 aircraft flew out empty from Dublin on 13th April,to Sofia,but returned jammed to the bulkheads with 189 enthusiastic Bulgarian(?) fruit pickers ,all clutching letters from their new "employer"

Seems the flight numbers and aircraft type all check out,but very little other confirmation to be found.....so !..... Could this be true ? or is it Fake-News,or has Ireland actually still got a Labour Shortage

Any ideas ?

Were they all tested for Covid-19?
Going by how our government and HSE could not foresee the nursing and care home devastation, which was evident in Italy before Covid hit our shores, I doubt that any due diligence was done when these new citizens-to-be arrived in Dublin.

rgossip30

AlekSmart wrote: »

An interesting point that,given the drip of information on Charter flight/s into Dublin from Sofia,of all places,apparently chartered by large Fruit & Veg producers in North County Dublin...seems the Boeing 737 aircraft flew out empty from Dublin on 13th April,to Sofia,but returned jammed to the bulkheads with 189 enthusiastic Bulgarian(?) fruit pickers ,all clutching letters from their new "employer"

Seems the flight numbers and aircraft type all check out,but very little other confirmation to be found.....so !..... Could this be true ? or is it Fake-News,or has Ireland actually still got a Labour Shortage

Any ideas ?

yes true with a video .The guy who posted has accidently on another site exposed himself to disciplinary action !

https://www.facebook.com/YellowVestIreland/?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARDMhBorzOrLuNeqxbT3hBkxmhwjH0uHZug1fstkcwLkwGLBvPDSh6-NGTdOmpXa-HpuE_iq6Wll5vP5&hc_ref=ARQc_T_lz29eeLdBDSnRBIPzJQoSnX7CBUD0kRlaRlvz2kLNexJK10uduMy6fm8-otc&fref=nf&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARCClDTmC77522j3QbEQxu-N7uNaHnlnbg-7x1VjzVhQHNjh42pdZbr2mH9yiEljU0eC3zIGEiWPHFP9HYFP7wDOkMdeo5M5mWKlckcBqeuIjY_0Piag2jXLsXOUF99xEwtG4XwWSKewlZiuQSGOA09j3xg55laQCnXpgwInGyne_sDPky3Iz4auMtCH7zRggo8gWNhnhOlN7VsgMyE9vpGKK0MEZdbX3VKXRJs7G0DtQCHyua__to3wEjYbP0F5-qNqB4uilqzDWka416g99cAKeBBnpehesTFz131Lh-6KnTl_nsyZR1kt91Q-kMs7QbnMQm1Ql2jheLiwpv9-11lw6VzvY7Gi

Kivaro

That was the first batch.
According to the Irish Independent, 1,500 are on the way to pick our fruit and veg.
Wonder will they get the €350 Covid payments after they finish the picking?

Meanwhile, for those of you in isolation due to the stay-at-home order .....

Yellow_Fern

sydthebeat wrote: »

the agenda is literally dripping off that website



nuff said

It is disturbing that the only issue that you are concerned about is the messenger, not the facts of the story black and white as they are.

Chinasea

So a bit like SF money, your fruit and vegetables just appear from nowhere.

So we just let the fruit rot.

The fruit pickers have been quarantined. They are providing a vital service all round.

As usual we have all the regular racist bigots grinding their hateful agendas.

These flown in individuals will be isolated and confined to enable your shopping.

Have seen horrendous posts on FB already littered with vile language and downright ignorant comments.

rgossip30

Chinasea wrote: »

So a bit like SF money, your fruit and vegetables just appear from nowhere.

So we just let the fruit rot.

The fruit pickers have been quarantined. They are providing a vital service all round.

As usual we have all the regular racist bigots grinding their hateful agendas.

These flown in individuals will be isolated and confined to enable your shopping.

Have seen horrendous posts on FB already littered with vile language and downright ignorant comments.

I think most are objecting that there are irish unemployed who can do this work . The government pays Turas Nua a fat fee to find people work so spare your silly racist bigot remarks .

Chinasea

The Irish unemployed over the last few years had, have no intention whatsoever of doing this back breaking work.

But sure more fodder for the racists to spew their hatred from the bunkers while munching on their blueberries and carrots. .

AlekSmart

Chinasea wrote: »

So a bit like SF money, your fruit and vegetables just appear from nowhere.

So we just let the fruit rot.

The fruit pickers have been quarantined. They are providing a vital service all round.

As usual we have all the regular racist bigots grinding their hateful agendas.

These flown in individuals will be isolated and confined to enable your shopping.

Have seen horrendous posts on FB already littered with vile language and downright ignorant comments.

WOW!

That's a whole lot of assumptions there.

Leaving aside the Racism thing for a sec....(you can return at your leisure)...Do you have some form of proof of the quarantine status of the 189 arrivals on THIS flight ?

Do you have details of the facility which is capable of safely & securely housing THIS group of individuals.

Is there a proven shortage of current Domestically located applicants for this work ?

It does not appear either sensible or desirable to fly in large numbers of Eastern European people to perform tasks not beyond the ability of the hundreds of thousands of Domesticaly located individuals now out-of-work due to the CV-19 outbreak.

The Republic of Ireland can only attest to the current CV-19 status of people currently on the Island.
It appears particularly short-sighted,perhaps even negligent to proceed with a plan which,on the surface,runs totally contrary to the directions being issued and updated daily from the Government itself.

If you percieve these concerns as Racist,then fair enough,I will have to accept your obviously far better knowledge of the topic than mine,but not everybody can be deemed Racist for being concerned at such blatant disregard of even the most basic Public Health directions being issued daily.

AlekSmart

Chinasea wrote: »

The Irish unemployed over the last few years had, have no intention whatsoever of doing this back breaking work.

But sure more fodder for the racists to spew their hatred from the bunkers while munching on their blueberries and carrots. .

You have absolutely no idea what "the Irish Unemployed" will or will not do.

Perhaps you might consider the many thousands of currently "Irish Unemployed"(a somewhat Racist term in itself) who hail from the furthest reashes of the planet,and who have worked here for decades.

Would you not see some value in approaching the hundreds of thousands of newly "Irish Unemployed" to perform this Fruit & Vegeatable picking work ?

Would it not appear prudent to continue the process of flattening the CV-19 curve by maintaining the current situation,or can we now consider that the Irish Authorities have decided to adopt the United States of America's insistence on "getting back to work" ?

Either way,these details from Dublin Airport deserve immediate clarification from the Government's CV-19 Team.

Chinasea

Germany, France and other European countries have no issues bringing in these controlled groups to harvest and salvage crops.

They are just ahead of the game in that their citizens recognise needs, and are not maligned by rampant racists like we have chomping at the bit whilst munching their cheap chips, carrots fruit and vegetable.

DelaneyIn

Chinasea wrote: »

The Irish unemployed over the last few years had, have no intention whatsoever of doing this back breaking work.

But sure more fodder for the racists to spew their hatred from the bunkers while munching on their blueberries and carrots. .

It’s a bit much to suggest that a whole nationality of people are too lazy to do a type of work. I’ve worked in a garden centre potting plants and similar work to fruit picking. Most Irish have.

Substitute Irish in your comment for another group and you’d be screaming racism.

AlekSmart

Kivaro wrote: »

That was the first batch.
According to the Irish Independent, 1,500 are on the way to pick our fruit and veg.
Wonder will they get the €350 Covid payments after they finish the picking?

Meanwhile, for those of you in isolation due to the stay-at-home order .....

I have'nt seen any media coverage of this as yet,however the single video clip,of itself,raises huge concerns over the entire Government/HSE Coronavirus response programme.

Taoiseach Varadakar was quite fullsome in his praise last week of the way in which the Population was observing the restrictions,even though there appeared little chance of their being lifted anytime soon.

He also made reference to the type of Policing operation being undertaken and it's focus on advice & encouragement rather than Imposition or Direction.

It would be a valid and pertinent question for a Journalist,at today's CV-19 Conference,to enquire whether these scenes now make it far more difficult for the State to assume ongoing compliance,when the State itself appears to have dispensed with the recommendations,in order to facilitate a niche sector of Irish (Agri) business ?

Do we know how these 189 were transported onwards from Dublin Airport to their new residences ?
With current reductions in capacity of Public Service Vehicles (67 Seat Double Deck Bus now reduced to 17) can we be confident that a dozen different vehicles were procured to safely transfer this group ?

Perhaps some posters would prefer to see closed railway wagons lined up for the transfer,but the point remains valid as to who or what agency is now monitoring these arrivals to reduce or eliminate the (very real) risk of transmission,or the creation of a new and difficult to manage CV-19 Hot-Spot.

As a further aside,I would wonder whether the producer concerned has actually considered the damage to their own commercial reputation by pursuing this line of business AT THIS TIME ?

AlekSmart

Chinasea wrote: »

Germany, France and other European countries have no issues bringing in these controlled groups to harvest and salvage crops.

They are just ahead of the game in that their citizens recognise needs, and are not maligned by rampant racists like we have chomping at the bit whilst munching their cheap chips, carrots fruit and vegetable.

That may be your interpretation,however the reality of the European Seasonal Work situation is not quite so clear.

https://www.ft.com/content/601a4dd9-b996-4c49-bc22-8f49bfd06ea0

The numbers involved are substantial: France is short of about 200,000 workers until the end of May, while Spain has a shortfall of 70,000 to 80,000. Italy needs about 250,000 seasonal workers in the next two months, while the UK normally receives 70,000 to 80,000 over the season and Germany 300,000.

To suggest that there are "No Issues" surrounding migrant worker inflows is perhaps a little optimistic ?

Some countries are trying to persuade local residents to do the work after decades of reliance on overseas labour; mass recruitment schemes are under way in Germany, France, Spain and the UK.

Spain has announced that locals will be able to collect unemployment benefit while they work on the land until the end of June, as part of a package of what its agriculture minister, Luis Planas, called “extraordinary measures” to secure supplies and prevent price rises. France has made the same provision, and is allowing workers furloughed from other jobs to undertake the work.

However the actual truth may well be far more unpalatable....

But recruitment beyond farms’ established labour networks is a challenge. Wyn Grant, emeritus professor of politics at the University of Warwick, said the UK had struggled to recruit local workers in the past. “It’s very arduous work and not very well paid, and it does require an amount of skill, especially when it involves keeping up with [harvesting] rigs . . . it takes place in relatively remote and thinly populated rural areas,” he said.

Seasonal agricultural work has at times been marred by poor working conditions and even modern slavery. In Italy the coronavirus crisis has led to calls for undocumented workers and asylum seekers to be offered permits to stay, so they can work legitimately.

Hopefully,Ireland's agribusiness elite do not count themselves at the modern slavery end of the spectrum,but then again,perhaps the poor conditions and pay are exactly why they can afford to fly such large numbers of humanity around during a pandemic ?

A can-of-worms indeed ?

Chinasea

Bombardment of narratives and weary long links, tales and hearsays does not justify nor excuse, try as you may racisism.

WrenBoy

Chinasea wrote: »

Bombardment of narratives and weary long links, tales and hearsays does not justify nor excuse, try as you may racisism.

Why should people adhere to the lockdown guidelines if planes full of people are allowed to be flown in at the behest of big business ?

Chinasea

Stop looking for excuses. The fruit pickers have been quarantined, will be confined and are highly supervised.

You want your food. Irish people do not want, nor have the skills to do this back breaking work so you can eat your 45cent a bag carrots etc.

enricoh

Chinasea wrote: »

Germany, France and other European countries have no issues bringing in these controlled groups to harvest and salvage crops.

They are just ahead of the game in that their citizens recognise needs, and are not maligned by rampant racists like we have chomping at the bit whilst munching their cheap chips, carrots fruit and vegetable.

Only one chomping at the bit is yourself chinasea, as ever screaming racism.
When it's all u got, it'll have to do!

statesaver

Chinasea wrote: »

Stop looking for excuses. The fruit pickers have been quarantined, will be confined and are highly supervised.

You want your food. Irish people do not want, nor have the skills to do this back breaking work so you can eat your 45cent a bag carrots etc.

Jesus, that sounds sinister.

But I do wonder about their pay and health and safety conditions.

Kivaro

statesaver wrote: »

Jesus, that sounds sinister.

But I do wonder about their pay and health and safety conditions.

Yep, like a ....... like a .... concentration camp.
But racism I suppose not to? I'm confused.

Don't watch RTE news for obvious reasons, but Virgin Media news had an interview with a couple of TDs, including Brid Smith of all people, and while I was waiting for her to pull the racism card, she actually made a good point: she wants health and safety and the HSE to examine these "highly supervised confinement" areas. She didn't use those words, but Chinasea seems to know a lot on the matter e.g. quarantined and confinement.

But racism .....

AlekSmart

Chinasea wrote: »

Bombardment of narratives and weary long links, tales and hearsays does not justify nor excuse, try as you may racisism.

Nonsense,packaged in a faux liberal concern about racism.

The reality now,is as it was earlier. Keelings fruit,in an (understandable) attempt to keep it's dominant position in the market decides to fly close to the edge,but now finds itself out of it's depth.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0417/1132089-keelings-fruit-covid19/

Both Taoiseach and Health Minister now realise that Irelands CV-19 tregulations were mistakenly drawn up with reference to our domestic population as a whole,leaving our employers and wealthier entreprenures a very big loophole to exploit.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said he shares the discomfort of the Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan in relation to the flying in of a large number of people to Ireland to pick fruit......

"I share the discomfort expressed by the Chief Medical Officer about the report of a large number of people coming to Ireland earlier this week to work in the horiculture sector.....

In a message on Twitter this evening, the Minister for Health Simon Harris said he was "deeply uneasy" about the chartering of a plane to fly seasonal workers in to Ireland to pick fruit.

The Keelings explaination raises as many questions as it didn't answer....

Keelings said all the workers "had been health screened by a doctor before they travelled to Sofia airport where they were temperature checked before entry".

"Ryanair and Dublin Airport can confirm that all regulations were adhered to. They were taken straight to their housing," the company said in a statement this afternoon.

"In accordance with HSE guidelines, they cannot work for 14 days after their arrival and their movements are restricted. We will take care of these colleagues as we take care of all of our people, permanent or temporary.

Have the new arrivals been TESTED for CV-19 ?
If now,what "Screening" protocols were in place?
Was it a single doctor to "screen" the 189 people ?
Are the detailed results of these "Screenings" available to the HSE at this time ?
Where is their secure housing ?
What is the standard of this housing,as in prepardness for isolation ?
What legal procedures are available to "restrict" the movements of these people ?

However it is the somewhat less political wording of the State's Chief Medical Officer that reasonates a bit more for myself and others....

At the Department of Health press briefing this evening, Chief Medical Officer Dr Tony Holohan said he was not comfortable with the idea of workers being flown into the country from abroad.

While he did not want to be seen to comment on any individual cases, he said it was not consistent with public health advice.

Now,perhaps in some rareified little world,Leo Varadakar,Simon Harris,and Tony Holohan are actually card carrying racists...oops sorry RACISTS !!....but in this particular instance they are merely belatedly reflecting the HUGE amount of anger coming from all sectors of Irish Society,from the DAA and contracting staff at Dublin Airport,to those who were,perhaps exposed to increased risk in driving these new arrivals to their secure accomodation,to the other Keeling Staff who now may be expected to mingle and work alongside the newcomers.

As I said earlier,perhaps the most shameful example so far,of Profit being the main driver in how these firms operate...

It said it can take considerable time and expense to train new workers, and due to the low margin in the fresh produce business, labour efficiencies are very important.

If nothing else,this will bring a very significant focus on the Keelings business structure,it's managerial renumeration packages,and positions held by it's connections elsewhere in Irish society.

rgossip30

DelaneyIn wrote: »

It’s a bit much to suggest that a whole nationality of people are too lazy to do a type of work. I’ve worked in a garden centre potting plants and similar work to fruit picking. Most Irish have.

Substitute Irish in your comment for another group and you’d be screaming racism.

Students back in the day used to do this work during holidays are were glad of the extra few bob .

Chinasea wrote: »

Stop looking for excuses. The fruit pickers have been quarantined, will be confined and are highly supervised.

You want your food. Irish people do not want, nor have the skills to do this back breaking work so you can eat your 45cent a bag carrots etc.

I will take what you say with a bag of carrots .



See the Coveney connection .

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10217475187127677&set=a.10200811339301896&type=3&eid=ARAUxSFV9WclGcTMqmDN0MT-sTxvzfkK5hgWTnT-KqGNT5pWQ71Mzz5sHVPihWYX7VV9POuuWD8I7luW

Chinasea

Whatever.

DelaneyIn

Chinasea wrote: »

Whatever.

Great response.

DelaneyIn

Hundreds of workers who left Ireland after the coronavirus outbreak have had their attempts to claim a weekly €350 Covid-19 unemployment payment foiled.

The Irish Daily Mail can reveal that the Exchequer has now saved over €1million after identifying more than 250 people who tried to scam the system.

The vast majority of those detected are Brazilian nationals, according to senior sources.

Over the past two-and-a-half weeks, every person leaving Ireland via ports and airports is having their details checked by social welfare officers, who are assisted by gardaí.

Every passenger must give their name and date of birth to inspectors, which is all that’s needed to check if a claim has been made for the Covid-19 Unemployment Pandemic Payment.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/over-250-people-caught-at-airport-in-€1million-covid-payment-scam/ar-BB13McIr

It’s great to see that they’re on the ball and catching out lads who are on the stroke. But then they pay out to payment to folks illegally in the country? Seems only certain rules are being enforced.

Mr. Karate

Tell them that they need to start attending Turas Nua and they'll deport themselves.

MFPM

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/over-250-people-caught-at-airport-in-€1million-covid-payment-scam/ar-BB13McIr

It’s great to see that they’re on the ball and catching out lads who are on the stroke. But then they pay out to payment to folks illegally in the country? Seems only certain rules are being enforced.

Who might they be?