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Should I charge- what's fair

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  • 10-04-2020 3:23pm
    #1
    shipsey
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭


    Hi boardies
    Looking for some advice.
    Tenant gave me notice for the end of this month but looks like they won't be able to vacate the room cuase they are currently in another country ..living at home due to travelling restrictions with covid
    Should I charge for next month, or by the week or not at all with the times we are in..
    I still have my mortgage repayments and can't rent it out cuase of thier stuff but maybe couldn't anyway at the moment.house in dub
    What do ye think appreciate other people's views
    Thanks


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    #2
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Talk to you tenant and ask them: are they leaving all their stuff, you will need to charge the rent so. Or can they arrange for it to be collected, room is vacant

    I think you are taking the p1ss tbh, you need to be looking at getting the room vacant to get a new tenant (when and if), not a way of charging the old tenant


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    #3
    shipsey
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭shipsey


    Thanks Amdublin
    Appreciate your reply..they text yesterday to say if the restrictions continue it would be beyond thier control if they couldn't clear the room, don't think they would have anyone in dub can clear it.. don't think they are renting where they are so not paying rent on double from next month. Also work for State so still getting thier wages
    Think I will tell them I will have to charge while they are still using the room for thier stuff
    Thanks again


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    #4
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Box it up and tell them you are doing so.

    Put to the side, you shouldn't be moving anyone new in anyway with this crisis.

    Bit unfair charging if they won't be using,

    It's a terrible time for everyone.


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    #5
    amdublin
    Registered Users Posts: 20,653 ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Box it up and tell them you are doing so.

    Put to the side, you shouldn't be moving anyone new in anyway with this crisis.

    Bit unfair charging if they won't be using,

    It's a terrible time for everyone.

    This


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    #6
    shipsey
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭shipsey


    Thanks for your reply..you have a point but it's a house share and the two other tenants also not there either so they are not using thier rooms but as they haven't given notice they will be paying rent .

    Definitely won't be boxing up their stuff, room is a real mess, had to go into it once cause radiotor was broke . Don't think they would appreciate me doing that anyway..


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    #7
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,100 ✭✭✭Browney7


    shipsey wrote: »
    Thanks Amdublin
    Appreciate your reply..they text yesterday to say if the restrictions continue it would be beyond thier control if they couldn't clear the room, don't think they would have anyone in dub can clear it.. don't think they are renting where they are so not paying rent on double from next month. Also work for State so still getting thier wages
    Think I will tell them I will have to charge while they are still using the room for thier stuff
    Thanks again

    I assume you own the property so it's a licensee arrangement? You have their deposit? How do you plan on getting them to actually pay? They gave notice so have no intention of coming back.

    You are getting rent from the other two so you're not exactly on a one way ticket to the poor house. Box up the stuff and say you are keeping X amount of deposit as a cleaning and renovation fee.


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    #8
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Box it up and tell them you are doing so.

    Put to the side, you shouldn't be moving anyone new in anyway with this crisis.

    Bit unfair charging if they won't be using,

    It's a terrible time for everyone.

    Even if they are not physically in the room. They are still using it when their stuff is there.

    It’s like a tenant asking to pay 50pc rent if they go on holidays for 2 weeks

    I wouldn’t touch the tenants stuff as they could claim you damaged or stole something.

    Tell the tenant. You will charge him until all of his stuff is out of your house.


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    #9
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,940 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    We are living in extraordinary times.

    You are still getting paid your state wage. If you are non essential, you are not actually having to earn it. If you are essential, you are exposing the household to risk every time you go to work.

    Stop being a wagon.

    Text your tenant, offering to box/bag his stuff yourself, and saying that no rent is required after the move-out date.


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    #10
    Charlie19
    Registered Users Posts: 11,752 ✭✭✭✭Charlie19


    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-landlord-mario-salerno.html


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    #11
    Brego888
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Brego888


    Charlie19 wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-landlord-mario-salerno.html

    I'm not sure it's particularly helpful to compare what a multimillionaire industrial landlord is currently doing to someone using the rent a room scheme to pay their own mortgage in Ireland.


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    #12
    JustLen
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭JustLen


    Put yourself in their shoes.

    They are not responsible for your mortgage payments.

    Maybe a middle ground would be to charge half the rent until they remove their stuff. In the meantime box up their stuff (after getting permission in a text) and advertise the room.

    If you can find someone else willing to pay full rent for the room then your at no loss.

    Like someone else said, what you are proposing to do is a p1ss take. You wouldn't be here asking for opinions if you were confident you were doing the right thing.

    I'm sure they will arrange to have there stiff gone within the next 3 months. You should apply for a 3 month mortgage break of you haven't already.


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    #13
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »

    Stop being a wagon.

    Careful up there, the op is just asking advice.

    While these are certainly extraordinary times, I don’t think it is unreasonable to ask about the options if the licensees personal items are left there indefinitely. The op is entitled to re-let the room after the notice period is up, he/she isn’t evicting someone, the person renting the room is not coming back. So if the licensee wants their stuff left in situ until they can pick it up, blocking someone else taking the room, it is in no way unreasonable to ask about what people think should be done.


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    #14
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    JustLen wrote: »
    Put yourself in their shoes.

    They are not responsible for your mortgage payments.

    Maybe a middle ground would be to charge half the rent until they remove their stuff. In the meantime box up their stuff (after getting permission in a text) and advertise the room.

    If you can find someone else willing to pay full rent for the room then your at no loss.

    Like someone else said, what you are proposing to do is a p1ss take. You wouldn't be here asking for opinions if you were confident you were doing the right thing.

    I'm sure they will arrange to have there stiff gone within the next 3 months. You should apply for a 3 month mortgage break of you haven't already.

    Put yourself in the OP shoes, he is responsible for paying back his mortgage and has a room where he could get x amount but can’t as this guy has his stuff in the room. Why should the op have to box up other people’s stuff.


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    #15
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Put yourself in the OP shoes, he is responsible for paying back his mortgage and has a room where he could get x amount but can’t as this guy has his stuff in the room. Why should the op have to box up other people’s stuff.

    Because there are government travel restrictions, and its beyond the renters control, and likley illegal to travel back to clear the room at this stage.

    The op has been given options to fix the situation.
    It's not ideal for anyone, but if you renting rooms in a house you have to expect to clean out rooms every now and then and especially in this exceptional situation.

    Contact the renter to let them know you boxing up their stuff and re advertise room.

    If the renter refuses this then yes keep charging all or part rent, if you come to an agreement.

    What else do you want the renter to do?


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    #16
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Fair enough. If I was in that situation. I know I wouldn’t do that. A lot of people had time to foresee what was going to happen. I’m not talking back in January but would have been given plenty of opportunity of at least a few weeks to get his act in order. They didn’t so it’s on them.


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    #17
    JustLen
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭JustLen


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Fair enough. If I was in that situation. I know I wouldn’t do that. A lot of people had time to foresee what was going to happen. I’m not talking back in January but would have been given plenty of opportunity of at least a few weeks to get his act in order. They didn’t so it’s on them.

    Governments and multi national organisations didn't have the foresight.

    Like I said a middle ground might be charge half of the rent.

    Whats the alternative? If the licensee is stuck in their home country do you not think they might just stop paying the rent anyway? If they decide to stop paying the rent and arrive in 3 months for their stuff could the landlord refuse to hand it over?

    Taking a practical view in these situations is often the best way forward.

    I can put myself in the op's shoes very easily because I've been in a similar position. If they want to screw the tenant than work away but don't come on here looking for justification IMO.


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    #18
    JustLen
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭JustLen


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Put yourself in the OP shoes, he is responsible for paying back his mortgage and has a room where he could get x amount but can’t as this guy has his stuff in the room. Why should the op have to box up other people’s stuff.

    I said already if they can get 'x' amount then go ahead and advertise the room. That would be the ideal outcome for the licensee as it would take away their obligation to pay rent.

    Storing a few items isn't a huge deal, how much stuff can be in a room.


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    #19
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    JustLen wrote: »
    Governments and multi national organisations didn't have the foresight.

    Like I said a middle ground might be charge half of the rent.

    Whats the alternative? If the licensee is stuck in their home country do you not think they might just stop paying the rent anyway? If they decide to stop paying the rent and arrive in 3 months for their stuff could the landlord refuse to hand it over?

    Taking a practical view in these situations is often the best way forward.

    I can put myself in the op's shoes very easily because I've been in a similar position. If they want to screw the tenant than work away but don't come on here looking for justification IMO.

    A practical POV would be to only care about yourself here. If you can realistically find another willing person to pay. Then this ex tenant is costing you money so you should be paid fairly. If you think you can’t get x rent. Well then just let it be.

    More than likely he can find another person so he needs to continue to pay. If he can’t. That’s on the tenant. If you want to be nice. Box up his stuff. If I want to be nasty. If he isn’t paying for rent. I would dump his stuff as it’s no longer entitled to be in my house.


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    #20
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    shipsey wrote: »
    I still have my mortgage repayments
    You can have your mortgage repayments paused for three months. Talk to your bank.
    Browney7 wrote: »
    I assume you own the property so it's a licensee arrangement?
    It sounds like the OP does not live in said house, as they refer to the tenant as a tenant, with the other tenants in a house share.

    OP; if they're tenants, you can't evict them for the next 3 months, even for non-payment of rent. Otherwise, expect a 5 figure fine, and the tenant getting put back in.


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    #21
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    the_syco wrote: »
    You can have your mortgage repayments paused for three months. Talk to your bank.


    It sounds like the OP does not live in said house, as they refer to the tenant as a tenant, with the other tenants in a house share.

    OP; if they're tenants, you can't evict them for the next 3 months, even for non-payment of rent. Otherwise, expect a 5 figure fine, and the tenant getting put back in.

    It seems from the op that said tenant has given notice, so no eviction.


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    #22
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    shipsey wrote: »
    Tenant gave me notice for the end of this month but looks like they won't be able to vacate the room cuase they are currently in another country ..living at home due to travelling restrictions with covid
    Dav010 wrote: »
    It seems from the op that said tenant has given notice, so no eviction.
    Seems they're not quite out of the apartment just yet.

    It's unclear in https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/FAQs_on_Emergency_Legislation_Final.pdf but if they don't move the stuff out and vacate the property, I don't think the OP can evict them in their absence.


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    #23
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    the_syco wrote: »
    Seems they're not quite out of the apartment just yet.

    It's unclear in https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/FAQs_on_Emergency_Legislation_Final.pdf but if they don't move the stuff out and vacate the property, I don't think the OP can evict them in their absence.

    I don’t see anything to support that. If the tenant wants their stuff to stay and continue the rental, then of course the op would be entitled to be paid at the end of the tenancy for the full period. That is what the op is asking, should he charge for that period.

    It’s probable the tenant wants the best of both worlds, the stuff to stay until it can be picked up, but only pay rent up to end of notice period.


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    #24
    shipsey
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭shipsey


    Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate everyone taking the time.
    I will definitely not be touching the tenants stuff . From the one time I was in the room it was jam packed and stuff everywhere
    I am not a big landlord I have one house which I rent when I moved in with my partner . Rent just covers mortgage
    I think I will tell them I will continue to charge by the week rather than the month till room is vacated


    I'm sure the other tenants would like the room occupied as bills spilt and can't rent out again cause room occupied with stuff
    I am trying to be fair here and am in on way taking the p*ss or take advantage as some people on here are trying to suggest


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    #25
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    shipsey wrote: »
    Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate everyone taking the time.
    I will definitely not be touching the tenants stuff . From the one time I was in the room it was jam packed and stuff everywhere
    I am not a big landlord I have one house which I rent when I moved in with my partner . Rent just covers mortgage
    I think I will tell them I will continue to charge by the week rather than the month till room is vacated


    I'm sure the other tenants would like the room occupied as bills spilt and can't rent out again cause room occupied with stuff
    I am trying to be fair here and am in on way taking the p*ss or take advantage as some people on here are trying to suggest

    But sure if they ain't there how would it be fair for them to be paying towards electric or gas for example.

    It's not ideal but honestly they can't get back and were nice enough to give you the heads up they would be leaving.

    Put it to them that the room is full and you have someone looking for the room.....see what they say but obviously if the items can't be moved then you have no choice but to look for rent for the period they are leaving everything.

    I would not be chasing for bills though and possibly a rent reduction for the time....


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    #26
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,854 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    We are living in extraordinary times.

    You are still getting paid your state wage. If you are non essential, you are not actually having to earn it. If you are essential, you are exposing the household to risk every time you go to work.

    Stop being a wagon.

    Text your tenant, offering to box/bag his stuff yourself, and saying that no rent is required after the move-out date.

    Blinded by your public sector hatred. The tenant is the state employee, not the OP.

    Hundreds of people in my organisation including myself are doing a full week's work, but at home.

    Not actually having to earn it? Ignorant and bitter.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #27
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    But sure if they ain't there how would it be fair for them to be paying towards electric or gas for example.

    It's not ideal but honestly they can't get back and were nice enough to give you the heads up they would be leaving.

    Put it to them that the room is full and you have someone looking for the room.....see what they say but obviously if the items can't be moved then you have no choice but to look for rent for the period they are leaving everything.

    I would not be chasing for bills though and possibly a rent reduction for the time....

    The same way it would be fair if you went away for a month, you would still be obligated to pay for utilities even though you are not there to use them.

    It’s not a case that they were nice enough to tell you they are leaving, if you are leaving, you are obligated to give notice.


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    #28
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Dav010 wrote: »
    The same way it would be fair if you went away for a month, you would still be obligated to pay for utilities even though you are not there to use them.

    It’s not a case that they were nice enough to tell you they are leaving, if you are leaving, you are obligated to give notice.

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but the tennant is not planning to continue with the tenancy and room in future anymore?

    They have already told the OP of this, before getting stuck in their home country during the notice period?

    The only issue is that they now cannot get back to remove stuff. But they do want to move out and vacate the room?

    If this is the case, and the tennant agrees to have stuff boxed up, what more can the tennant do? (not possible or legal to travel back)

    Now if the tennant just wants a few months rent free and then to return again, that's a different story.

    The OP's refusal to even consider or ask about boxing up the stuff just gives an easy excuse to continue charging full rate and not deal with the situation.

    What comeback will the OP have if the tennant simple refuses to pay anymore again? Deposit?

    This is what the OP needs to consider, because if there's no comeback, they're just backing themselves into a corner and an eventually a loss, instead of engaging, during this exceptional circumstance?


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    #29
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    ForestFire wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something here, but the tennant is not planning to continue with the tenancy and room in future anymore?

    They have already told the OP of this, before getting stuck in their home country during the notice period?

    The only issue is that they now cannot get back to remove stuff. But they do want to move out and vacate the room?

    If this is the case, and the tennant agrees to have stuff boxed up, what more can the tennant do? (not possible or legal to travel back)

    Now if the tennant just wants a few months rent free and then to return again, that's a different story.

    The OP's refusal to even consider or ask about boxing up the stuff just gives an easy excuse to continue charging full rate and not deal with the situation.

    What comeback will the OP have if the tennant simple refuses to pay anymore again? Deposit?

    This is what the OP needs to consider, because if there's no comeback, they're just backing themselves into a corner and an eventually a loss, instead of engaging, during this exceptional circumstance?

    Seems right, the only thing that you’ve omitted is that there is a lot of stuff in the room and the tenant has no one to remove it. So I’m not sure the onus should be to box it, nor indeed may there be space to store all the stuff. I agree with you, but the op is asking for advice on what to do if the tenant does not/cannot remove their stuff. Obviously the thing to do, if possible is to box and store, but if that can’t be done, what then? Personally I don’t feel this is problem that the op should suffer a financial loss for, it is the tenants belongings, and though the situation is beyond their control, the fact remains that they are still using a room in the property, albeit to store their belongings. I think the tenant should have offered to pay something for the extra time the stuff is there, and I can’t imagine the other tenants are thrilled about having to pay for utilities.


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    #30
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,374 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    shipsey wrote: »
    Hi boardies
    Looking for some advice.
    Tenant gave me notice for the end of this month but looks like they won't be able to vacate the room cuase they are currently in another country ..living at home due to travelling restrictions with covid
    Should I charge for next month, or by the week or not at all with the times we are in..
    I still have my mortgage repayments and can't rent it out cuase of thier stuff but maybe couldn't anyway at the moment.house in dub
    What do ye think appreciate other people's views
    Thanks

    IMO under normal circumstances if the tenant doesn't leave the room, they're blocking you from moving someone else in/claiming rent off someone else.

    In the current circumstances, even if the tenant were to leave, you'd not be able to re let the room. Charging the tenant in the mean time is greedy IMO.

    Once the restrictions are lifted, start charging them per diem. To me, that's the fairest.


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    #31
    ForestFire
    Registered Users Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I think the tenant should have offered to pay something for the extra time the stuff is there, and I can’t imagine the other tenants are thrilled about having to pay for utilities.

    Maybe, but op has said more than once he still wants to charge full rent and this is not screwing the Tennant...

    ... and what can the OP do if Tennant just stops, do they have anyway to get anything back, if not he will lose out in the long run, instead of sorting something out and possible renting room again.

    Also other tenants would have to pay bills anyway when he moved out, if no one moved in immediately, that's always a risk to some degree.

    Okay here's another option, is there any companies you can hire, to box up the stuff and clean room? Cleaning companies, moving companies etc.

    How much would this cost for one room?
    Stuff could be stored in attic, or in storage unit and costs to be agreed with Tennant.


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