Scrappage scheme to help the car industry post COVID-19?

anewme

Rows Grower wrote: »

How many jobs do you think will be lost unless a scrappage scheme is introduced?

I didn't say jobs will be lost without a scrappage scheme. How many sales came from the last scrappage scheme.? The first one in 2009 was a success but it was of it's time.

I asked if the person who described the motor industry as not an industry actually knew how many people work in it in Ireland before issuing the throwaway remark that those jobs are not worth saving.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I'd say it's very difficult to put a figure on that without making up a lot of things or a fortnight's intensive research.

Would you imagine that the maths have changed since the last time the government brought in a scrappage scheme?

I remember being in college in 2008/2009 and doing the research for a college essay.

The conclusion was that it was bad economics probably pushed on our government by EU interests hoping the money would flow into their motor manufacturers as part of the terms of the bailout deal. Yes it would save car dealership jobs but it wasn't worth it for the amount of money that had to be spent.

I could have been wrong with my conclusions I remember feeling that was a very well researched essay.

Toyotafanboi

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So not an industry but merely a retail and support service made to sound like more than it is.

I do think anyone is using the term industry to try and glamourise it or make it appear to be more than it is. It just a frequently used and generally understood terminology.

Have you a bit of an axe to grind over it though, seems like you have? What's the back story Seth.

Rows Grower wrote: »

Careful now or he'll be personally disappointed again for some imaginary reason.

It wasnt an imaginary reason, phrasing it like that aims to belittle it. It was my reason. It is disappointing to see such disdain for the "industry" and those employed within it. It's easy to write it off but your talking about people's livelihoods. It's easy put it down when it's not your own living at stake. You dont have to agree with me, I'm not looking for that but it is my point of view, that's all.

Toyotafanboi

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Would you imagine that the maths have changed since the last time the government brought in a scrappage scheme?

I remember being in college in 2008/2009 and doing the research for a college essay.

The conclusion was that it was bad economics probably pushed on our government by EU interests hoping the money would flow into their motor manufacturers as part of the terms of the bailout deal. Yes it would save car dealership jobs but it wasn't worth it for the amount of money that had to be spent.

I could have been wrong with my conclusions I remember feeling that was a very well researched essay.

Makes sense in fairness.

Feel like I'm too wrapped up in this, I never said I was pro scrappage scheme, of pro government "industry" assistance at all.

Rows Grower

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I do think anyone is using the term industry to try and glamourise it or make it appear to be more than it is. It just a frequently used and generally understood terminology.

Have you a bit of an axe to grind over it though, seems like you have? What's the back story Seth.



It wasnt an imaginary reason, phrasing it like that aims to belittle it. It was my reason. It is disappointing to see such disdain for the "industry" and those employed within it. It's easy to write it off but your talking about people's livelihoods. It's easy put it down when it's not your own living at stake. You dont have to agree with me, I'm not looking for that but it is my point of view, that's all.

I've already asked you twice, what are you on about?

I don't have disdain for the "industry" or any of those employed within it.

I, like most normal people, am sorry to see others livelihoods at risk.

I haven't put anything down.

I asked you a simple question about the tens of thousands of jobs you proclaimed were at risk, that was all.

You responded with some made up quote you attributed to me and took an adversarial attitude and then started moaning about your personal disappointment.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Makes sense in fairness.

Feel like I'm too wrapped up in this, I never said I was pro scrappage scheme, of pro government "industry" assistance at all.

For what it's worth I feel there should be some assistance but not financial.

I really think there should be a fresh rent negotiation on every business property. Reset rental rates to market value after this is done. In 2008/2009 too many businesses were trapped in properties with upward only rent reviews and landlords that had just risen rent in 2007.

If they closed their builsiness the landlords wouldn't get half as much from a new tennant but if they stayed open the landlords didn't offer any forbearance.

This was very visible in a lot of car dealers.

anewme

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I dont know if the sourcing of the product is the most relevant factor pertinent to support. The industry still generates local employment for tens of thousands.

Rows Grower wrote: »

[/B]
Really, are you talking about just new car sales with that figure?

I find that hard to believe.

What exactly do you find hard to believe?

There were approximately 43,500 employed in the Motor Industry here in Ireland at the end of 2019.

Rows Grower

anewme wrote: »

What exactly do you find hard to believe?

There were approximately 43,500 employed in the Motor Industry here in Ireland at the end of 2019.

It couldn't be any clearer in the post I wrote.

anewme

Rows Grower wrote: »

It couldn't be any clearer in the post I wrote.

Not really clear at all.

Read to me as if you are doubting there are tens of thousands employed in the Motor Industry.

Well there are the numbers for you.

Lot of jobs under threat.

Toyotafanboi

Rows Grower wrote: »

I've already asked you twice, what are you on about?

I don't have disdain for the "industry" or any of those employed within it.

I never said you did?

Rows Grower wrote: »

I, like most normal people, am sorry to see others livelihoods at risk.

I haven't put anything down.

I never said you did?

Rows Grower wrote: »

I asked you a simple question about the tens of thousands of jobs you proclaimed were at risk, that was all.

You responded with some made up quote you attributed to me and took an adversarial attitude and then started moaning about your personal disappointment.

I responded to your question. I think you mat be confused as to who or what I was replying to. Your posts have been very choppy though, that much is clear.

I've re read the thread. When you questioned my comment on the tens of thousand employed in the industry retail and support service I responded to it. My comment about an industry not worth saving in the same reply wasnt directed towards yourself but reading back I think I could have been clearer with that, apologies, you may have though I was confronting you when some of the comment wasnt aimed at you.

Is there an issue with expressing my disappointment though, that seems to be leaving people really upset?

Obviously, I have an interest in it, so I'm not an unbiased opinion, but from my own point of view I do find it disheartening to see people jumping up and down to say the motor retail and support service shouldn't see any support, not because of the need for the support in itself but because that individuals opinion of the retail and support service itself is so low, when it's a retail and support service I take pride in being a part of. That is just a personal opinion though, that's all, nothing more.

screamer wrote: »

No just no. An industry not worth saving.

I Was VB

I’d imagine the Motor industry post covid19 would see a lot of people holding onto their car for longer than they usually would, I don’t think a scrappage scheme would make the average joe spend upwards of €20k+ for a new motor, I could be very wrong though.

Rows Grower

I'd imagine that a lot of people are worried about their own jobs and those of their families, we are heading into some dark times in the near future and that is only starting to sink in lately for some people.

The way I see it the whole country will have an attitude change after this crisis, some people will probably never again buy a new car either by choice or by circumstance so the thoughts of their tax money being used to encourage others to buy a new car is bound to cause heated debate because let's be honest, brand new cars are not an essential item for anyone.

There's going to be a lot of disappointment everywhere and people are going to have to toughen up a bit.

bazz26

People said the same after the Celtic Tiger went bust. Economies go from boom to bust back to boom again in cycles. The only difference this time is it literally happened over night. It's only natural that people don't spend when they are fearful of their employment prospects and financial future but as soon as that position becomes stable they start spending/borrowing again.

Rows Grower

I for one would like to support the motor industry financially by treating myself to a big old cheap Luxobarge when this crap is all over.

(I'll have to get the wife's blessing first though.)

anewme

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'd imagine that a lot of people are worried about their own jobs and those of their families, we are heading into some dark times in the near future and that is only starting to sink in lately for some people.

The way I see it the whole country will have an attitude change after this crisis, some people will probably never again buy a new car either by choice or by circumstance so the thoughts of their tax money being used to encourage others to buy a new car is bound to cause heated debate because let's be honest, brand new cars are not an essential item for anyone.

There's going to be a lot of disappointment everywhere and people are going to have to toughen up a bit.

You are aware that people working in the motor industry pay a lot of tax personally. Also, they are consumers as well and that has a knock on effect on others.

I had booked a self employed lad to do a bit of work for me at home just before shutdown. I texted yesterday to say the work is still there when we get back. I believe it’s important to keep the economy going as best we can for everyone s benefit. Otherwise, the wheels come off the whole thing.

Not sure who the toughen up comment is directed at? A bit mean spirited.

Rows Grower

anewme wrote: »

You are aware that people working in the motor industry pay a lot of tax personally. Also, they are consumers as well and that has a knock on effect on others.

I had booked a self employed lad to do a bit of work for me at home just before shutdown. I texted yesterday to say the work is still there when we get back. I believe it’s important to keep the economy going as best we can for everyone s benefit.

Not sure who the toughen up comment is directed at? A bit mean spirited.

Will you ever jog on and try have an argument with someone else please because I have no interest in your petty sniping.

anewme

Rows Grower wrote: »

Will you ever jog on and try have an argument with someone else please because I have no interest in your petty sniping.

The only one sniping and making petty remarks is yourself throughout the thread.

jmreire

bazz26 wrote: »

People said the same after the Celtic Tiger went bust. Economies go from boom to bust back to boom again in cycles. The only difference this time is it literally happened over night. It's only natural that people don't spend when they are fearful of their employment prospects and financial future but as soon as that position becomes stable they start spending/borrowing again.

Yes, that was true enough back then....the crisis was purely financial, and slowly the world economy picked itself up, and recovered. But even so, it took several year's to get back to "Normal" and its only in very recent times that we see price's actually surpassing the boom time. And these first few years were very painful financially.
Now fast forward to the present crisis...no one really know's when or how it will end ( or even if it will, until either a cure or vaccine is found ) in the next 3/4 mths a clearer picture will emerge, but personally, I don't think the world economy is going to "bounce " back as it did after the financial crash 10 years ago. There simply wont be the cash available for anything except the essential's.

anewme

jmreire wrote: »

Yes, that was true enough back then....the crisis was purely financial, and slowly the world economy picked itself up, and recovered. But even so, it took several year's to get back to "Normal" and its only in very recent times that we see price's actually surpassing the boom time. And these first few years were very painful financially.
Now fast forward to the present crisis...no one really know's when or how it will end ( or even if it will, until either a cure or vaccine is found ) in the next 3/4 mths a clearer picture will emerge, but personally, I don't think the world economy is going to "bounce " back as it did after the financial crash 10 years ago. There simply wont be the cash available for anything except the essential's.

Very true. It is the uncertainty of or when there will be an ending that will make this crash more prolonged for everyone.

brightspark

anewme wrote: »

You are aware that people working in the motor industry pay a lot of tax personally. Also, they are consumers as well and that has a knock on effect on others.

I had booked a self employed lad to do a bit of work for me at home just before shutdown. I texted yesterday to say the work is still there when we get back. I believe it’s important to keep the economy going as best we can for everyone s benefit. Otherwise, the wheels come off the whole thing.

Not sure who the toughen up comment is directed at? A bit mean spirited.

When this is over I will still need to my car serviced, new tyres, brakes etc. as required, but I don't think a scrappage scheme is either affordable or justified.

Unless perhaps we also introduce a scrappage scheme for clothes AND discounts for expensive restaurants and hotels AND reduce duty on alcohol in pubs AND remove vat from concert and theatre tickets AND grants for new kitchens or bathrooms?
All of which, and others "keep the economy going".

But where is the money going to come from? The financial cost to the state is likely to be comparable to the losses from the banking sector in 2008 we won't be able to afford it.

Also is the "motor industry" not also availing already of the various government schemes for the Covid crisis?

Charles Babbage

The motoring public might be better served by an immediate program of minor road works, surfacing and repairs, which is outdoor work and not very risky contagion wise and of lasting value to everyone.

anewme

brightspark wrote: »

When this is over I will still need to my car serviced, new tyres, brakes etc. as required, but I don't think a scrappage scheme is either affordable or justified.

Unless perhaps we also introduce a scrappage scheme for clothes AND discounts for expensive restaurants and hotels AND reduce duty on alcohol in pubs AND remove vat from concert and theatre tickets AND grants for new kitchens or bathrooms?
All of which, and others "keep the economy going".

But where is the money going to come from? The financial cost to the state is likely to be comparable to the losses from the banking sector in 2008 we won't be able to afford it.

Also is the "motor industry" not also availing already of the various government schemes for the Covid crisis?

If you read my posts I never said there should be a scrappage scheme.

My point was around people doubting there are tens of thousands working in motor industry and services related /dependant on it.

Regarding your point about retail/hospitality sectors, yes very valid. Everyone is impacted and the Govt. will have an uphill battle. Probably will try to rebuild on a phased basis. It will be a challenge to get people back working and confident to spend.

wonski

Thousands of people have lost their jobs in this non existent industry.

More will.

Know one person in this non existing leasing cars industry who will have no job to come back to after the work from home excercise is over.

I know just one. I don't socialise much.

I think some don't see the bigger picture these days as long as they are fed with roof over their head

knifey_spoonie

No one seems to take into account the money taken by the exchequer as money staying within the state,

23% VAT
16% VRT

Thats 39%

Say the dealer has 3% Margin, Distributor has 8%, That's an additional 11%

50% of the price of a vehicle remains in the state, seems pretty sizable to me.

What needs to be done to stimulate the market is 2 fold, First one is simple access to funding to allow people to purchase vehicles new or used.

2nd which is more difficult, A major reform of the VRT System. Due to increased emissions & safety standards vehicles have become increasingly expensive, the current vrt system is only compounding it. We have vehicles which have reduced Co2 emission by 20-25% in the last 5 years but VRT has increased by 10%.

A rounded balanced reform of VRT could be enough to encourage the market and by doing so increase the intake to the exchequer.

colm_mcm

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

No one seems to take into account the money taken by the exchequer as money staying within the state,

23% VAT
16% VRT

Thats 39%

Say the dealer has 3% Margin, Distributor has 8%, That's an additional 11%

50% of the price of a vehicle remains in the state, seems pretty sizable to me.

What needs to be done to stimulate the market is 2 fold, First one is simple access to funding to allow people to purchase vehicles new or used.

2nd which is more difficult, A major reform of the VRT System. Due to increased emissions & safety standards vehicles have become increasingly expensive, the current vrt system is only compounding it. We have vehicles which have reduced Co2 emission by 20-25% in the last 5 years but VRT has increased by 10%.

A rounded balanced reform of VRT could be enough to encourage the market and by doing so increase the intake to the exchequer.

Hasn’t the VRT increased because of inflated MRSP though?

In lot of cases, the cars are dropping VRT bands but distributors are keeping the price the same or increasing it.

saabsaab

The Government has stated that they are looking for 1M electric vehicles by 2030.


Perhaps if there was an incentive to retrofit older ICE vehicles to electric or low emission power. More jobs, cheaper than new cars and may convince those that don't have the money otherwise.


It is estimated that conversion would cost be 8,000 to 12,000 euro depending on the vehicle.

Rows Grower

saabsaab wrote: »

The Government has stated that they are looking for 1M electric vehicles by 2030.


Perhaps if there was an incentive to retrofit older ICE vehicles to electric or low emission power. More jobs, cheaper than new cars and may convince those that don't have the money otherwise.


It is estimated that conversion would cost be 8,000 to 12,000 euro depending on the vehicle.

Whatever government we get next is going to have more things to worry about than electric cars buddy.

saabsaab

Rows Grower wrote: »

Whatever government we get next is going to have more things to worry about than electric cars buddy.

They sure are, fella.



As the thread is about a scheme to promote the car industry and keep jobs it could be a runner. I believe there is a such a scheme in France.

Eric Cartman

we're walking right back in to a massive recession. Those who can afford to change will likely go electric to reduce ongoing costs as they will also take advantage of low house prices to move towards the city. Those who cannot afford to change or can no longer get finance will stay with what they have, the 09-12 period was a massive slump in car sales the last time, more of that again this time round.

This whole experience is already costing billions, that will have to be paid somehow and I stuck by Ireland the last recession, not a chance in hell I'm sticking around to pay for this one. Taxation is right at the tipping point where a single cent more and theres no rhyme or reason for anyone in the 70-200k a year bracket to stay, over that you can play funny tax games but that middle-high professional category are the most shafted and it'll get worse.

saabsaab

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we're walking right back in to a massive recession. Those who can afford to change will likely go electric to reduce ongoing costs as they will also take advantage of low house prices to move towards the city. Those who cannot afford to change or can no longer get finance will stay with what they have, the 09-12 period was a massive slump in car sales the last time, more of that again this time round.

This whole experience is already costing billions, that will have to be paid somehow and I stuck by Ireland the last recession, not a chance in hell I'm sticking around to pay for this one. Taxation is right at the tipping point where a single cent more and theres no rhyme or reason for anyone in the 70-200k a year bracket to stay, over that you can play funny tax games but that middle-high professional category are the most shafted and it'll get worse.

You may be right but where to do plan to go?

Eric Cartman

saabsaab wrote: »

You may be right but where to do plan to go?

Dubai, canada, the US considering donny T is going to get a second term. Our taxation is outrageously high, the charm of ol Ireland only keeps you here so much before the cost of living drives you out.

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Dubai, canada, the US considering donny T is going to get a second term. Our taxation is outrageously high, the charm of ol Ireland only keeps you here so much before the cost of living drives you out.

you'll save a fortune on fuel and motor tax for your barge anyway! Seriously though, I agree with you. I have employees, who wont work over time, if taxed at the marginal rate. Pure bloody idiocy here with regards to taxation policy... then what do you get for the tax? rip off childcare, rip off gp visits, rip off housing, **** transport, the "justice " LOL system.

Idbatterim

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we're walking right back in to a massive recession. Those who can afford to change will likely go electric to reduce ongoing costs as they will also take advantage of low house prices to move towards the city. Those who cannot afford to change or can no longer get finance will stay with what they have, the 09-12 period was a massive slump in car sales the last time, more of that again this time round.

This whole experience is already costing billions, that will have to be paid somehow and I stuck by Ireland the last recession, not a chance in hell I'm sticking around to pay for this one. Taxation is right at the tipping point where a single cent more and theres no rhyme or reason for anyone in the 70-200k a year bracket to stay, over that you can play funny tax games but that middle-high professional category are the most shafted and it'll get worse.

move towads the city though and advantages arent that big, you already have decent transport or the mileage you do, wont result in big savings going to electric. the motor tax on cars most people drive now, is near free any way, even on fossil fuel. I also agree, I will consider getting out of here, when the initital **** show blows over, even for just a few months...

Cuir_Cosc_Orm

While I sympathise with everyone affected by job uncertainty in the motor related sector, a scrappage scheme would primarily assist those largest dealerships such as Joe Duffy motor group, Windsor group, Kearys etc.

These large motor groups sell multiple brands, are historically known for their "streamlining" or penny pinching employing junior sales staff on short contracts and apprectice technicians on low salaries. In addition, these motor groups are buying their franchised cars cheaper than the distributor due to selling target sales. These companies should be able to bolster economic shocks unaided.The dealers that may struggle are individual family owned dealers selling one brand, who may already be under pressure by the distributors to sell a sales taget.

More critically the unfranchised dealer are are selling nearly new cars are at a greater risk of economic uncertainty. How can a scrappage scheme assist them?

In addition, what makes the motor related sector so special? Should the tourist sector get a holiday scheme or the furniture/Electrical shops get a Government backed scrappage scheme to allow people trade in their old sofas/laptops for new, in an attempt to stimulate the sector?

Marcusm

saabsaab wrote: »

They sure are, fella.



As the thread is about a scheme to promote the car industry and keep jobs it could be a runner. I believe there is a such a scheme in France.

A key distinction being that France has many car manufacturing plants and the French government has already bailed out both major manufacturers (15% or Renault and 14% of PSA).

RandomViewer

saabsaab wrote: »

A grant for zero emissions or non fossil fuel vehicles only could be a runner nothing for the rest. there is an argument that not producing new cars electric or ICE avoids production of greenhouse gases. Perhaps a grant to convert and refurbish older vehicles to LPG or electric also?

Waste of time, you'll have nothing but bother refurbishing old cars, cost of updating suspension and brakes alone wouldn't make sense.

RandomViewer

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I wouldn't pay much head to SIMI and to be honest their numbers in that article are a joke.
However, being realistic, how many actual jobs would a scrappage scheme help?

Keep a few dozen salesmen in sunbeds and hair product, other than that ,not many

RandomViewer

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I mean the motor industry in general.

That said, getting a new car ready to deliver to the customer take a lot more than just a salesman. A used car even moreso.

"An industry not worth saving though". Great to see such positivity.

Wash polish and screw the plates on, not exactly a lot , add an oil change for the second hand one, main dealers don't retail anything that needs work

wpd

dont see any reason for the irish tax payer to subsidise car manufacturers to sell their cars here
the workshops couldnt get enough technicians anyway
the new car market will be depressed for a number of years after this

RandomViewer

saabsaab wrote: »

The Government has stated that they are looking for 1M electric vehicles by 2030.


Perhaps if there was an incentive to retrofit older ICE vehicles to electric or low emission power. More jobs, cheaper than new cars and may convince those that don't have the money otherwise.


It is estimated that conversion would cost be 8,000 to 12,000 euro depending on the vehicle.

Plates sell cars, if I'm faced with some retrofitted 151 or a 182 diesel ,guess what I'm buying.?

RandomViewer

anewme wrote: »

I didn't say jobs will be lost without a scrappage scheme. How many sales came from the last scrappage scheme.? The first one in 2009 was a success but it was of it's time.

I asked if the person who described the motor industry as not an industry actually knew how many people work in it in Ireland before issuing the throwaway remark that those jobs are not worth saving.

First government scrappage was in the 90,s you got a grand for any old heap, filled the country with 106 s and Ibizas, NcT then pushed it further, Renault 21 and Peugeot 405 vanished from our roads

Ubbquittious

RandomViewer wrote: »

First government scrappage was in the 90,s you got a grand for any old heap, filled the country with 106 s and Ibizas, NcT then pushed it further, Renault 21 and Peugeot 405 vanished from our roads

Still have my 405

Leonard Hofstadter

When the WLTP is fully introduced (as it will be later on this year) new car prices are just going to go one way, and that is up.

The full WLTP will result in higher CO2 and hence, VRT and motor tax, even though the cars themselves will be unchanged from before (except the usual model/engine updates).

So a 2020 car will actually be less desirable than the equivalent car from last year, or especially 2018 (when everything was still on the NEDC).

I don't really see what a scrappage scheme is going to do for incentivising new car sales as people are going to be paying more in motor tax for exactly the same car. We've had 'cheap tax' cars since 2008, so there isn't the guaranteed money saving on tax every year like there was in the last scrappage scheme, and anyway going from say €280 if you're in the B1 tax band to €200 in the A1 tax band isn't really much of a difference anyway.

Of course, PHEVs and EVs will be unaffected (some PHEVs, like those made by BMW actually have lower CO2 ratings on WLTP than NEDC), but the problem with them is that there is no little to no fuel duty and obviously motor tax is lower - not exactly a thing we need in a country where there is going to be no money. Despite what the idiotic populists in the Shinners, and other mad left wing parties want you to believe, there is no such thing as free money, everything has to be bought for and paid for, and we have to balance our books. The world does not owe us a living, we need to be able to fund all the public services we say we want, and that means more car tax, higher fuel duties, or higher income tax, or property tax. No matter how much the left and far left wants to hoodwink you into thinking otherwise, you cannot have your cake and eat it. Prudent economic management has never been more important, otherwise we won't have the money to (rightly) bail out everyone who has been unfortunate enough to have lost their jobs during this pandemic or to lessen the impact of the next recession.

And as for taxation, well the only party that committed to any sort of meaningful tax reduction (Fine Gael) was rewarded for this incentive to promote hard work and self-betterment by getting their lowest ever share of the first preference vote... Irish people as a whole don't seem to be interested in tax cuts the way we once were like in the boom of the early 2000s, where FF's tax cuts won them the 2002 and 2007 elections.

If you want less taxation, you actually have to vote for it - not moan about it on random internet forums.

Ubbquittious

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

When the WLTP is fully introduced (as it will be later on this year) new car prices are just going to go one way, and that is up.

The full WLTP will result in higher CO2 and hence, VRT and motor tax, even though the cars themselves will be unchanged from before (except the usual model/engine updates).

So a 2020 car will actually be less desirable than the equivalent car from last year, or especially 2018 (when everything was still on the NEDC).

I don't really see what a scrappage scheme is going to do for incentivising new car sales as people are going to be paying more in motor tax for exactly the same car.

Of course, PHEVs and EVs will be unaffected (some PHEVs, like those made by BMW actually have lower CO2 ratings on WLTP than NEDC), but the problem with them is that there is no fuel duty and obviously motor tax is lower - not exactly a thing we need in a country where there is going to be no money.

And as for taxation, well the only party that committed to any sort of meaningful tax reduction (Fine Gael) was rewarded for this incentive to promote hard work and self-betterment by getting their lowest ever share of the first preference vote... Irish people as a whole don't seem to be interested in tax cuts the way we once were like in the boom of the early 2000s, where FF's tax cuts won them the 2002 and 2007 elections.

If you want less taxation, you actually have to vote for it - not moan about it on random internet forums.

Someone needs to tell those fecking dreamers that the battery inside in a car is only meant for turning the starter. Wilt-hup me arse. They'll cop on soon enough after this corona is over

colm_mcm

Surely we’ve met our emissions targets now because there’s feck all flights?

anewme

RandomViewer wrote: »

First government scrappage was in the 90,s you got a grand for any old heap, filled the country with 106 s and Ibizas, NcT then pushed it further, Renault 21 and Peugeot 405 vanished from our roads

Yes thank you...ahh good times... that one was massive... must sold over 50,000. I remember loads of Puntos and Cuntagetintas being on the roads around that time.

The one in 2009 was nothing compared to that.

Leonard Hofstadter

colm_mcm wrote: »

Surely we’ve met our emissions targets now because there’s feck all flights?

Exactly. The last time I checked, the scientists said this pandemic has given the planet about 10 years of extra time. Time to roll back on the EU/Green Party CO2 nonsense and get people back to work and put a few bob in peoples' pockets.

And while we're on the subject, let's bring back manufacturing of PPE and other things we actually need into the EU... if we're serious about cutting CO2 emissions why the hell are we importing stuff from China, surely it's much more carbon friendly to have things made in the EU, as there's no need to use cargo planes in most cases?

Ubbquittious

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

Exactly. The last time I checked, the scientists said this pandemic has given the planet about 10 years of extra time. Time to roll back on the EU/Green Party CO2 nonsense and get people back to work and put a few bob in peoples' pockets.

And while we're on the subject, let's bring back manufacturing of PPE and other things we actually need into the EU... if we're serious about cutting CO2 emissions why the hell are we importing stuff from China, surely it's much more carbon friendly to have things made in the EU, as there's no need to use cargo planes in most cases?

I'd say there's some Eurocrat deciding a way to make the Corona reductions not count towards our target because they have already spent what they were hoping to get from us in fines

saabsaab

RandomViewer wrote: »

Plates sell cars, if I'm faced with some retrofitted 151 or a 182 diesel ,guess what I'm buying.?

Not everyone is in this position. This could be aimed at those not in a position to buy a new EV, city drivers and moderate mileage. The jobs potential is much greater here if retrofitting electric motors to an older vehicle with other refurbishments as needed. A new industry running alongside new sales. I’m not talking anything too far gone say suitable 2010 -2015?

Ubbquittious

saabsaab wrote: »

Not everyone is in this position. This could be aimed at those not in a position to buy a new EV, city drivers and moderate mileage. The jobs potential is much greater here if retrofitting electric motors to an older vehicle with other refurbishments as needed. A new industry running alongside new sales. I’m not talking anything too far gone say suitable 2010 -2015?

So many different electric drive trains to be created and where to hide the batteries? People won't buy it unless it's from the factory. People are afraid of LPG conversion and that retains the same engine. The only way electric conversion of old cars will work is if they stop selling fuel and new cars